0:01Something I think is so fascinating when we talk about the dangers that people moving west towards California was so you know the the gold rush of of the mid 18 the mid 1800s >> I never realized this one of the reasons you needed a wagon train wasn't just for convenience it was so that you could make it past the great plains because quite literally when you leave the woodlands and get into the Great Plains. It is literally an ocean of grass. It's just grass. There's no trees. There's no coverage. There's no protection. That's why they have the tent over the back of the wagon so you can have some protection. They set up
0:41tents. But you need that wagon train so everyone can stay together and stay along the same trajectory because there was no trails preserved in the Great Plains.
0:51the a wagon trail three days later like as the wheels are cutting through the grass would disappear because the ground was so soft and if it rained it's completely gone gone.
1:01>> So people would emerge from this from this tree line into an ocean from horizon to horizon no trees at all and the only thing out there are roaming tribes of the great plains.
1:14>> And so [clears throat] in in the great plains you have this lack of convenience.
1:21um that that Native Americans had. So, think about this. So, in the woodlands, uh which would be most of the east coast, you had a lot of convenience. You had a lot of rivers and you had a lot of wood to use. So, you have you can have a much more sedentary lifestyle. There's more luxury, right? So, you have this is why we have all the mounds on the east coast and people were staying put in one place. And when you're able to stay in one place, you're able to farm corn and build up these big pyramids. We call them mounds. It's kind of it's a little bit like disrespectful or like downplaying the significance of it. Like
1:53these these are full-on pyramids. If you saw them in ancient times, you wouldn't even know it wasn't made out of stone.
1:58Like that's how monumental these things were. Um and so it was a much more luxurious sort of peaceful place. Uh less warfare, less violent tribes. But in the Great Plains, think about this. You have the reason that a lot of those uh natives were pushed to the great plains is because they weren't originally great warriors. Like the Comanches were just getting destroyed by everybody around them until one day they emerged as great warriors cuz they're pushed out into the great plains where it's the worst real estate. So what do they have to do to survive? They have to become the most violent people around. And so in the
2:34Great Plains, imagine how fierce the natives are that are able to survive in the Great Plains, right? So you have this added element that you can get lost in the plains trying to get to California and then you also have the most savage Native American tribes roaming around the Great Plains. And this is the thing that I found so shocking is that the Great Plains Indians were such good navigators and had such a perfect understanding of their geography of their own territory that get this, if you were a large US military convoy moving through Comanche territory in the Great Plains from Texas, you know, all
3:16the way up to Colorado.
3:19If you were within a 500 mile radius, you were in danger of being attacked by the Comanches.
3:25>> 500 miles.
3:26>> They could attack from 500 miles away overnight. Not not overnight, but it was like But it was like a >> Those are some fast [ __ ] horses.
3:32>> Yeah. Not not overnight, but it was like it was like immediate like they could they could do uh direct targeted attacks.
3:37>> They could smell 500 miles away.
3:40>> Yes. Yeah. And and it >> like literally like smell you.
3:43>> No, I don't know. But but uh but yeah, that's uh so it's uh it's a big part of SGwin's book is that is that they could they could plan strategic military attacks from 500 miles away. And that's what made it so hard is because you didn't know how many Comanches there were or where they were at, but they always knew where you were at. And they would never stay in the same place twice. Like they would move from place to place following um following their herds of buffalo >> and they had herds of wild horses as well. And um yeah, they could plan strategic military attacks from 500 miles away and you would never
4:17anticipate them coming and as soon as they attacked they were they would disappear and so you could never get a sense of of where they were or where when they were coming or where they were coming from. It's just a and that's why like you think of the wild west dude think about that being born into that world and your only lot in life you have no money on the east coast. Your only lot in life is like, "Okay, kids. I hear about this place over in California is what they call it. It's lots of gold out there. We're going to have to do that."
4:48Having absolutely no idea that there are Comanches rolling around the plains that will scalp you and torture you to death and burn you alive. You know, it just like it's just a completely wild place just 160 years ago. It's just fascinating world, man. So this this postcolonial uh interaction between Native Americans and Europeans, I just I'm finding it infinitely fascinating because it is it is the furthest thing from black and white, which is the way people tend to treat it, but man is it a complicated like nuanced issue.
5:21>> Yeah. 1883 is another one that shows that. I haven't seen it yet.
5:24>> Pretty amazing. Yeah.
5:26>> Well, you should watch that because there's a lot that you're describing and the fever dream in my head of picturing these things comes from a lot of the imagery >> that was filmed in that. I actually liked 1923 [snorts] show, man. I love that show.
5:39>> It was [ __ ] awesome. 1883 was, we're talking about some of Taylor Sheridan's like pre Yellowstone limited series.
5:461883 was was pretty amazing. And there's I don't want to give plot points away to you if you haven't seen it, but >> you know, they're same kind of idea.
5:54They're they're they're going down the Oregon Trail. I think that's what it was called. And you're fighting the terrain like you said which includes [ __ ] that we take for granted like oh we came to a little you know 25 m wide river people are going to die when we cross this right all the way to some of the roaming tribes and >> you'd get hunted >> that's it's it's crazy but we got on this tangent because we were talking about the years leading up to Montazuma actually being killed and the Spanish finding out about him and then working their way east to west inward >> in land to get to Tennach and then
6:37eventually you know do the deed here.
6:40But so they they land in the east. You were talking about how they went down first they were finding the Bahamas. We got on the sid track about the guy Alvarez who found >> Brazil and all that before Orient.
6:50>> Shout out to Alvarez.
6:51>> Yeah, shout out Alvarez. Sounds like a third basement. But anyway, [laughter] so you know, he finds that. But now we're fast forwarding a little bit to the days of like when Cortez is coming.
7:02So Cortez sends people ahead of him, >> I guess, who go there first. And >> how were they greeted? Like I remember there was something, maybe I'm [ __ ] this up and mixing this up with another one, but there were people of the Aztecs who looked at the Spaniards as gods.
7:20>> Sure. Sure. Yeah. That's that's kind of something that is that is thrown out there. We really don't know the veracity of of of a statement like that. The Spaniards seem to say that a lot like about every encounter that oh they thought that we were they thought we were gods, you know. [clears throat] >> Um there's a lot of there I would say I would say it's right down the middle.
7:43It's 50/50 as to whether or not any of the Native Americans actually thought that they were gods. Now [snorts] I think where this comes from is that there was a prophecy that the great feathered serpent god Ketzoat would return one day and on the exact astronomical day >> or at least that I'm sorry that year which for the Gregorian calendar was 1519 to the Aztec calendar it was exactly that year that Cortez arrived.
8:13It's just one of these great coincidences or is a coincidence. Um, but this is where this idea comes from that uh that Europe all Europeans will say later on they thought that we were gods. We really don't know but it is possible that the Aztecs really did think that this was the return of of Ketal Koat.
8:33>> But we just don't really know. And for how long did they think that?
8:36>> We don't really know.
8:37>> But there's like a five sixyear period here before they do the deed where they or aware it exists.
8:43>> No, it's just like a year and a half.
8:44It's just Yeah. Yeah.
8:45>> No. From awareness that it exists. not getting there, right?
8:49>> No, no, it's it's like 7 months later.
8:51>> So, how did they find out it existed?
8:53Did they like come upon it and be like, "What's that shining [clears throat] on?"
8:56>> So, he lands So, Cortez wants to invade, if I'm getting my history right here, um Cortez wants to invade Mexico. He wants to invade mainland Mexico.
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9:36that subscribe button if you haven't already. I really appreciate that. Also, the like button is a big help and you can join my newsletter via the link in the description. Um, but he was already kind of on a short leash with the Spanish crown. And so he did uh he did not have permission to invade the mainland, but he decided to do it anyways before he was essentially reprimanded and pulled back and the position was given to a different kinkisor, right? So he goes ahead and invades mainland Mexico, Mexico.
10:05Anyways, so he lands on the coast of Veraracruz and the first people that he meets as far as we know are the Maya and uh so he meets the Maya and he says that these are like sickly small weak-l looking people. Now what he didn't realize is that these Maya already had European disease from the last 20 years of other Europeans poking around on the Yucatan and trading with them. These Europeans had had been infecting the Maya. So the Maya were some of the were the first people in Mexico to get infected with this disease and it was spreading across and had reached Veraracruz by the time Cortez 20 years
10:41later >> came to Veraracruz. He meets with the Maya and he essentially he sees some gold artifacts. He sees some riches and he asks them he essentially says what all aliens say when he says take me to your leader. So you know he hears he hears of Tanosh Titlon in 1519 when he first arrives in Veraracruz. These Maya people are telling him about the city of Tinoitlon and the emperor Mcdazzuma. So it's within seven to nine months later he marches there with 150 kungisadors and other like native guides essentially people he's paid off or maybe he's forced them to guide him through and escort him through. So, he's kind of got his he's
11:23got his 150 uh men and then he's got his uh then he's got his local guides or slaves or soldiers, whatever it is. and they go on this seven-month expedition where they're on horseback and walking from the coast of Veraracruz all the way to to no Ton and um and >> yeah it's it's it's seven or nine months later they're at the capital of Mexico and they [snorts] I believe in that first meeting if I'm getting my history wrong and again everybody watching I'm I'm just now getting to colonial history in my own studies but I believe it's in that first meeting that Mckazuma dies when the Spaniards first arrive And then the war
12:02continues for about another year. Uh the Aztecs essentially replace Maktazuma with their own local leaders. Like another another guy steps up.
12:10>> So the Aztecs replace him.
12:11>> Yeah. Yeah.
12:12>> So the Spaniards kill him, war breaks out and the Aztecs start fighting the Spaniards and they say we have a new leader now.
12:18>> Essentially we think that they are had already replaced Maktazuma um before the Spaniards. So, I told I told you they were held up in that palace before and they I think they were held up in the palace for maybe around a hundred days or so if I'm getting my history right here. Um, and so by the time the Spaniards flee that palace in the middle of the night, they flee in the middle of this storm and they like cover the the horses hooves with these cloth so that on the cobblestones it's not so loud.
12:44And uh, of course, they they don't make it out undetected. While they're in the middle of the bridge in the middle of the night, the flare and the horn goes up at the front of the bridge and then it goes off at the back of the bridge and like a million Aztecs storm these 150 concisadors and the concisadors barely make it out. But they've like filled their armor with gold, you know, and everything that they've stolen. And so anyways, we think that during this period, uh, the Aztecs had already replaced Maktazuma with somebody else because you needed order. So probably, you know, the second or third guy
13:13becomes this becomes this new emperor.
13:16And so the war isn't over with the death of McDazzuma. Uh the Spaniards flee.
13:20They barely make it out. Cortez barely makes it out alive. His horse gets killed. It falls over. He falls into the water and with all of his armor, he's going to sink to the bottom of the lake and drown. And a couple of his men reach in and grab him out while they're being attacked. This is crazy story. Um and uh just they barely make it out of Tanosh Tilon. Eventually the the Aztecs kind of retreat after enough of them get sliced down and they barely survive and then the war continues. They come back. They conquer Mexico City uh or they conquer Snos Titlon the next year and then just completely subdue all of Mexico and they
13:53eventually they essentially just turn into Mexico City and then they launch their expedition down into Peru.
13:59>> How many people [clears throat] how deep was the Spanish? [snorts] >> It was only It was only 150 guys. I'm pretty sure it was only 150 guys. Yeah.
14:08So it never got above that though.
14:11>> Oh, I you know I don't know. I mean I think that they came I I'm I imagine that when they came back with the second expedition it was much it was many more soldiers plus the help of other indigenous people that now saw that the Aztecs were weakened and wanted them dead too. So this second phase of the war is when we get this period of uh the Spanish priests giving the Aztec people the blankets that had smallox in it.
14:36You've heard you've heard of this I'm sure. story. This is that well I I don't know all the details of it. I just know that there were Spanish friars and priests who probably genuinely wanted the betterment. Like people think that we're talking about uh like uh biological warfare here. Um >> we want what's best for you. Take this smallox. It it's it's hard to say, man, because the more I've studied it, um, you know, back then they have a what's the theory of like the the four fluids or whatever it was you like blood, saliva, pee, something else. Uh, you know, they they didn't really understand um they didn't really understand
15:16viology, germ theory. And so we think as as I've looked more into it, I started off thinking that they knew that they were spreading disease, but I I don't think that they did. I think that they I think that these priests genuinely cared about the souls of these people and wanted to protect them >> and and comfort them cuz there there were lots of Spaniards that weren't bad people. Um there were lots of Spaniards that genuinely cared about the Aztecs or the natives that they're interacting with and wanted the best for them. um but ultimately ended up hurting them even more.
15:49>> You sound like a Spanish apologist.
15:53>> No, I'm just kidding. Uh, no, it's um, no, [clears throat] but that's probably really what was happening is is they they really were giving the women and children these blankets to keep them uh to keep them warm during the winter without realizing that they had brought these blankets from the Caribbean surrounded by other uh, surrounded by other Europeans that were breathing all over them and giving all their putting all their diseases into these blankets.
16:17And then those blankets just decimate people in Mexico City. just [snorts] bodies, thousands of bodies piling up in the middle of the markets. It was like the the Spaniards are walking through the markets and it's just piles of dead Aztecs everywhere.
16:30>> Now, another similar thing happens here is that there's a Spanish frier down in Peru a decade and a half later >> and he's baptizing after Pizarro, uh Pizaro is a colleague of Cortez, I think he's a cousin or nephew of Cortez, gets sent down on an expedition to conquer Peru. You and I talked about this on my on my first episode um where uh Ottoapa like spits on the Bible and throws it on the floor or throws on the ground. Yeah. Yeah. And uh so [clears throat] there was a Spanish frier there that was trying to baptize the Inca people. And so he had this bowl of holy water and he had thousands of
17:07people putting their face in the bowl of holy water.
17:10>> Yeah, that's great. And all he was doing was giving each one of these people directly giving them the Spanish influenzas and smallox. And so even though he was the guy trying to save their souls, he himself probably killed more people than any Spaniard ever did.
17:26>> I'mma save your soul and send you to God. [laughter] [snorts] >> Godamn.
17:31>> Yeah, man. Just >> what a savage savage time on every front.
17:35>> Wild time, man. Wild time. You know, I even think about that from I used to be um it's funny like uh my my wife, she's cute. I took her to uh Peru and and I'm talking to her about uh we were going through Cusco and I'm showing [snorts] her all the Inca temples with these uh you know Spanish churches built over the top of them and I'm explaining to her like the Spanish church essentially cuts off the power of the temple because the temples are astronomical observatories that are meant to connect to the sun and the night sky and the stars and they they they act as like celestial astronomical clocks. They have a purpose
18:11and by building this uh building on top of it you cut off the Inca people from their spirituality from their source right and I was going through all it with her and by the end of the trip she's like I don't like the Spanish you know she's she's [laughter] like she she does she doesn't like the Spanish at all and uh you know the Inca people are just so nice but um you know it's just funny but a as a historian it all eats away at you and you end up realizing that like no No general group of people are ever as bad as they're portrayed to be. There are individual people that are awful, but the vast majority of people are just
18:47caught up in the tsunami of civilization, right?
18:50>> I wish we would take that lesson.
18:52>> Yeah.
18:52>> Today, even >> people define different [snorts] groups of people around the world. And I mean, you draw it along borders, you draw along religions, you draw it along races. They'll use anecdotal things to define the whole and it's and it and it just repeats itself. History repeats itself over and over again, but I never understand that. You know, there's there's cultures, there's some ideas that are strongly infested in some cultures that you may be like, "All right, I don't love that." But judge people on people. You know, when we look at this history and and that's important why you're giving this context as well,
19:28so that everyone listening understands >> similarly to today, >> you know, where we have men in suits go in back rooms and shake hands and drop bombs.
19:39>> You know, maybe they didn't wear suits back then. They didn't have [ __ ] you know, Hugo Boss and all that, but >> same idea. just, you know, a few guys decide this is what it is and then suddenly you send the pawns out there as they would look at them, which is unfair to describe them that way, but that's how they looked at them >> to do the dirty work. And you know, >> you it could be everything from some savage conquering and war to what you're talking about with, you know, priests saying, "I'm going to save your soul and spreading massive disease that kills people."
20:12>> It's brutal, man.
20:13>> Yeah, it is. It is. It's a It's a fascinating time, man. It's two different worlds disconnected by more than 10,000 years from each other.
20:22Completely different worldviews. In some ways, similar.
20:26>> Um, >> what do you mean in some ways similar?
20:28>> Just the humanity, you know, like >> like um Okay, so we study the ancient Amazonian people and judging what's funny is judging by their archaeology, >> which thus far we haven't found a lot of the archaeology. We've only found smaller civilizations on the periphery of the Amazon. Like, you know, probably the main hubbhub of all these great lost cities in the Amazon we hear about.
20:52We're probably further into the center of the Amazon where Oriana said to is said to have seen them where you have like a um uh where you actually have stone bedrock instead of clay out in the west like where Paul is at. Um >> Paul Rosley.
21:07>> Yeah. And but on the peripheral of the Amazon where it's much easier to access, we found all kinds of civilizations out there. And the archaeology that comes up is pretty interesting. The only thing the only thing that we find are u we find these raised platforms that essentially come up from these uh from these canals. And so you have these you have this farmland, you have these raised platforms, you have these dugout canals that go through the ground. And so from what we think is that a lot of these Amazonians on the on the periphery of the Amazon didn't necessarily walk from place to place all the time. They
21:42get in these little canals and little tiny boats and sail up and down from town to town, but all we find is the archaeological remnants of giant parties just Yeah, this is kind of similar on it.
21:56>> Yeah, [clears throat] this is this is pretty similar. This is a a lidar map that's shown up. Now, this is a larger city that's closer into the interior of the Amazon. It sort of gives you an idea, but it isn't exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe you could look up like Amazonian geoglyphs and uh you'll probably see a shot you'll probably see a drone shot from the sky and that'll that'll be a lot closer. Um this this right here though, this LAR scan, this is like a major city. There's there's a step pyramid. There's a huge platform in the middle. There's highways.
22:25>> Smaller one over there on the far left that's green. Is that a mini step pyramid? Yeah, probably a mini step pyramid. So, it's got that raised platform and then it's got a mound up on top of it. So, that raised platform, you probably had some normal people setting up their huts and then those two mounds right next to it. The probably royal people or much more wealthy important people living up even more elevated.
22:44>> Okay.
22:45>> Yeah. So, >> what do we got on this? [clears throat] >> Here we go. Perfect, dude. Yeah. Yeah.
22:49So, any of these. So, um >> that looks like the movie signs.
22:53>> It does, right?
22:54>> Right. Yeah. Deaf was like on it. Yeah.
22:56>> Yeah. [snorts] So, we we don't >> Come on, Mel. Where are you?
22:58>> We don't understand why they make these geoglyphs and why they made these shapes. What the orientations of them are truly meant for.
23:05>> They were talking >> talking to aliens >> talking up there, baby.
23:08>> Could be. You ever seen the Nazka lines?
23:11>> The Nazka mummies.
23:13>> No, the lines in the ground. A dude, we're going to have to go down the Nazka.
23:18>> All right. All right. Finish this point.
23:19Then we're going down the Nazka.
23:21>> Um, >> that's [clears throat] going in the title. Nazka line aliens. Boom. Everyone loves it.
23:25>> Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it.
23:27Um, so this is actually similar to the Nazca lines. It's it's giant geoglyphs that are made into the ground, but essentially people would lived in these raised platforms similar to this. And you can see huge lines spanning off from here and they're ditches in the ground that be filled with water. And people would sail in little boats from one place to the other. And essentially all that ancient Amazonians did was farm and party and go to war and sleep with each other's wives. That's basically it.
23:56That's listen, you got to throw that in there. Y >> swinging >> than time.
24:00>> That, you know, that's in many many ways you look at them and they're like, okay, you know, they they like to have a good time. They like to kill each other and they like to have sex. Like, >> good for them.
24:10>> Pretty similar to everyone else around the world.
24:12>> You take out the kill and we're good.
24:14>> Yeah. And so that's, you know, so much of of the Mesoamerican world is so similar to to other parts of the world.
24:21And yet the way that those pieces interact with each other is just assorted completely differently. Right.
24:28It's >> What was that one right there I was looking at? Is that a dude drawn into the You see it in the second row. Def.
24:34Yeah. Yeah.
24:36>> That's altered, right?
24:38>> Yeah. I've never seen this one.
24:39>> That looks like Bigfoot with a club.
24:41>> Humans probably altered the Amazon 2,000 years ago.
24:44>> Oh no. Paul Rosley's going to have a heart attack. Don't click that. Yeah.
24:48>> Yeah. Well, that's kind of an overblown thing because people will go, "The Amazon's a man-made garden."
24:53>> Cook, Luke, >> no, it isn't. The Amazon's not a man-made garden. What this is, this is literally what will happen. You'll be walking through the Amazon and all of the Amazon has grown to every creature, every plant in the Amazon has grown to defend itself from other things. So, it's just a vicious cycle of death in the Amazon. like uh you know a lot of the I'm making generalizations here, but a lot of the plants aren't edible. Uh you know, the you got these huge thorns on these trees that are like you know thorns that are a foot, you know, a foot long and and razor thin. You don't even see them until you've run into the tree.
25:30It's just uh the Amazon's incredibly formidable place that seems like it it wouldn't be possible to inhabit. And at some point in thou I mean probably 10,000 20,000 years ago ancient Amazonians in this primordial lost like mystic sea uh in the ancient world in this very blurry time invented a type of soil black soil called teraprada. And this soil could grow anything that they needed. And so they they made patches of gardens in the Amazon small little patches. Now, we found a bunch of them, but that doesn't mean that the Amazon looked like the Great Plains and then people planted the forest there. They
26:11just re-engineered the soil in certain parts to be able to grow the things that they needed to survive. And so, you'll be walking through the Amazon and then all of a sudden Percy Faucet did it, but he didn't know what terrapra was. He just found these gardens that were full of all the fruits and everything that he needed. like his guys would be starving and they would come across a farm or something like that in the middle of the Amazon that the he would say the entire ve all the vegetation is different with fruit that he'd never seen before but it looked delicious and it was edible and his men would gorge themselves on it and
26:43they he would just find pockets of this.
26:45Well, he was finding gardens. He finding Amazonian gardens and these are like I'm talking about tiny little like all these little black spots on your table. That's about how common they would be in the Amazon. [snorts] vast majority of it is just natural wilderness that's been there since before the ISIS.
27:01>> Yeah, I think I think most people who say that I can't say all people. I'm sure some people who run with that have indeed been there, but most people who are [snorts] saying that and seeing that have never been there. Mhm.
27:14>> And when you go there, you will see, you will realize, especially when you go into the middle of the Amazon, like I was able to do with Paul, you will realize what a speck you are and what a crowning achievement of mother nature that biosphere is. I mean, it's just like >> it almost doesn't make sense. Like, and there were some times where I'd take in a moment and I'd be like, my god, the five-year-old me is just like jumping for joy right now. Like, I'm floating in the water in the Amazon. Like, this is the most special thing ever. But, you know, Paul might literally clip what you just said right there because it it and
27:49I understand this completely. It frustrates him so much >> when people say that cuz he's trying to save the Amazon. And what happens is in fairness to some of the people who make comments along those lines, what they really say is that we have found some man-made things like a garden in the Amazon. And then someone takes that quote and makes some article that they're going to sell ad space in. But the article headline to get people to click needs to be Amazon man-made. And most people read the headline, they see the tweet about it, and they're like, "Oh [ __ ] it's man-made." So suddenly now people get under the assumption
28:26therefore that, well, because it's man-made, we've done it before, I'm sure we can do it again. We can rebuild it.
28:31Keep cutting the trees down. And of course, that makes absolutely no sense.
28:36that's gonna drive someone like Paul nuts and it should. And so he wants to get out there to educate people to be like, "Yo, you got to be real careful saying this because that's not what it is at all. In fact, and this is what he does.
28:48>> Come down here and see it. I'll show you. You'll realize within two seconds that ain't the case. This stuff is older than seemingly the world itself. Not literally, but you know what I mean.
28:58It's like this has been around since [ __ ] the dinosaurs were around or whatever. But, you know, it's it's really important, I think, that we talk about that stuff the right way because people don't see this in their backyard.
29:11It's the Amazon jungle. It's way down there. Oh, that's really cool. I've read about in books. I've seen in a couple movies. That's awesome. But it it's you don't see it every day. And so, you don't have the appreciation that the Amazon jungle, which is I forget what percentage of the world's coverage it is, but it's a way smaller percentage than this, it represents 20% though of the world's global oxygen supply. So when it gets to an exponential point of no return, hopefully it never gets there because we can save this thing. But if it gets past a certain point to where I'm making up numbers right now, but 43%
29:42of the Amazon were taken out, therefore there's it's going to go into extinction. It cannot be turned back around. we are going to face a world that's missing 20% of the oxygen moving forward and will totally [ __ ] up the entire ecosystem that we enjoy be it here in New Jersey or over in Spain or China wherever like you need something like that to exist. So I appreciate someone like you who studies ancient history and looks at the amazing things that human beings and ancient civilizations have been able to pull off. I appreciate the fact that you also understand the actual basis of what's there in the first place, which is the
30:17land and the ecosystem that existed long before the people were actually using it.
30:22>> Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah. Well, I think that the Well, one, I mean, two points. One, I think that clickbait titles have done such a disservice to like anything in the scientific world because it just >> people just get these, you know, and freedom of speech, you can say whatever you want. people is really people's responsibility to educate themselves, you know, otherwise we just destroy ourselves. Um, but uh, you know, the clickbait titles that nobody actually reads the article or even worse, it's a clickbait title and then you have to pay to actually read the article. You know what I'm saying? So, it's Amazon
30:54rainforest man-made question mark and you click on it and then you have to and then it all gets blurred out and you can't read it and you're like, "Oh, well, I guess I guess it just must be man-made. This is what everybody else is saying. That's what this is saying."
31:04Anyways, so clickbait titles from articles suck. Um, and people get so much wrong just because of stupid titles. And that's not just archaeology, but like I think it especially creates like very inaccurate understandings of the ancient world. Um, over oversimplified understandings of the ancient world for sure. And then the second thing is um you [clears throat] know that idea uh that idea I mean it allows people when people believe that they don't really care if China is logging up the entire Amazon or if they're planning on cutting highways straight through the >> America's buying it. [clears throat]
31:42>> Yeah. Exactly. And so um you know it it just allows people especially with the Amazon in particular. But it just allows people to just not really care about the natural world because ah it's just man-made. we could just do it again. You know, maybe they think that.
31:56>> So, >> that's right. And it's, you know, that's obviously it's that's something that's personal to me at this point, not just because we've done content on it in here and had a guy like Paul in a bunch, but >> you know, getting to see it and appreciate it. It's just it's the coolest thing ever. And, you know, >> as I move along, that's something I want to do more of. Go see some things up close. It's one thing to sit here in your comfy little studio and talk about it like an armchair quarterback, >> but when you actually go see it for better or worse depending on where you're going and what you're seeing,
32:29>> you know, you can speak to it more and you can you can understand it and and I just think, >> you know, there there is some [ __ ] in this world that is magical and then there's some magical [ __ ] that human beings have been able to pull off to make it even more magical. And like it doesn't need to be one or the other >> with things. You can appreciate both.
32:48You can >> you can study the history and learn from it. And you can also study the setting and environment and preserve it. You know, those two things should be handinand.
32:58>> Yeah.
32:59>> Not even like the Bloods and Crips meme either. Like they [laughter] should just be friends in general.
33:03>> Yeah. I totally agree. you know, but the so the Aztecs get taken out >> quickly, you know, by the Spanish and then disease spreads and then, >> you know, the Spanish obviously pretty much colonize Mexico and you fast forward and you get to somewhere somehow how we got to today.
33:21>> But you had put a pin in the Mayans, but in particularly the Mex and that whole history. I know that's something like one of the things I love about you is that you are constantly traveling to all these places to go see it for yourself >> and it's like a it's like a quest to like you're always dressed the part too.
33:38I really I really appreciate that. But, you know, you've gone down and looked at a lot of the mech ruins and the the places where they existed and it to me the ch we talked about it in episode 175 a little bit, but it's a very among the ignored parts that we already highlighted the fact that South America seems to be so ignored in a lot of these history discussions, ancient history discussions these days. Theme are passed over so much. So for people out there who really have no idea what what their origins were and and who they were and what the civilization was like, can you just give the the download on on the
34:14Mech people and and their base history?
34:17>> Yeah. Yeah. So the Mechs, man, incredibly ancient. It's it's the origins of Messo America.
34:25Now the basics of Messo America is [clears throat] basically everything below the Rio Grand. So below Texas is essentially the most northern edge of Meso America and it continues all the way through Mexico into Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador and it kind of fades out as you get closer to Panama. That's essentially Meso America and uh and this has been my central area of expertise for quite a long time now. Uh you know it was it was what I studied in college and got like my anthropology degree in. Uh, and this was the world that opened up to me. I just I'm fascinated by it. And it's and it's infinitely complex.
35:07But on the Veraracruz coast, which is to the west of the Maya realm, to the east of where the Aztecs will later be, it there is a river that connects to uh the Gulf of Mexico or the Gulf of America as some people call it now. Um, [clears throat] uh, it's called the uh, Coowets Calcos River. You know, I actually get I actually get a lot of flack for that cuz I'm my I make custom maps for my videos and I still call it the Gulf of Mexico.
35:33>> And you get flack for that.
35:34>> Yeah. Yeah. People be like, "No, no, it's the Gulf of America."
35:37>> It's just a logistical nightmare, though.
35:39>> I'm like I'm like, "Guys, you know what?
35:41I'm just going to stick with tradition here. It's been the Gulf of Mexico for like 500 years."
35:45>> It was fun to say.
35:46>> Yeah. Yeah. You know, so, you know, I'm not switching up because one guy says so.
35:51>> [ __ ] >> I agree. I agree.
35:54>> That's [laughter] right. So um so anyways yeah so it's the uh the Koetscalos River connects to the Gulf of Mexico and um along this river it's essentially like think of think of the Koetskos River as the Nile River that the Egyptians you know the Nile River gave the Egyptians their civilization. We did this whole rundown last time. It it's it's not of the credit of the Egyptians. It's of the credit of the Nile. The Nile just gifted these riches to the Egyptians. So the Ketscalos River just gifts all this fertile land to the Mex. And in fact uh I brought a group of uh students with me in December and we went to uh San
36:38Lorenzo Tinosh Tilon which is the first capital really the the the central metropolitan area of the ch world and it's way up on top of this hill and as you look down the hill towards the coke river and these aluvial flood plains where all of their maze crops or their corn would grow. Um, I took a photo of it. Dude, if you if I were to show an Egyptian that photo, they would think that I took a photo of somewhere in Egypt. It's that similar. It's just And I've been to other fertile crescents as well and looked at it, I'm like, "Oh, wow. These all have the same similarities. It's these low valleys
37:14where the river consistently floods and has, you know, creates this aluvial fertile >> plane. And this is how civilization begins. It's just was fascinating seeing that. So um so the mech world begins at San Lorenzo Tanosh Tilon. Uh it's the it's the fertile crescent of Mexico.
37:35It's the most overlooked fertile crescent of the entire world. I mean uh what you have seven fertile crescent.
37:41Mexico is the most overlooked one. It begins with San Lorenzo Tilon about 3,800 years ago. So, uh, 1800 B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B BC I should say. [snorts] And so the Omech essentially they get their rise from they have the they have uh port cities as well that are actually on the Gulf and San Lorenzo is is inland a little bit along the river and so they're sailing out on the coast and they're fishing. They have, you know, all types of resources from from their ability to catch fish as well as raise corn. So they so they're they're just booming. They essentially rise before everybody else and they've just mastered
38:22agriculture before any of the other cultures in Meso America even get started. And what's really crazy is it seems like right at the beginning of their civilization, they're able to quarry these 60 ton stones, uh, these 60 ton solid basalt stones out of the Sierra de Lusha volcanic belt to their northeast and quarry them and transport them 90 miles away to this city and and carve and erect these massive mech heads. And it's like they're doing this from the very beginning of their society. There is no, from what we can tell through the archaeology, there's no leadup to this. There's no developmental
39:02period before they're able to do this.
39:05They're just doing it from the very beginning. So, we could look up uh just I don't know if you have my eyesight's not that great, but just mech heads or something. Um >> yeah, they're insane. [clears throat] >> Yeah, it's crazy.
39:16>> How much did you say, Wade? [snorts] >> So, this is Okay, so this is a really this is a really cool mystery about the Mech heads. Um so, >> looks like a pooling garden. Oh, it's it's crazy. Yeah, it's it it's beautiful, man. There's uh there's 17 known heads, but there's actually three more heads that most people have never seen, but they're made out of sandstone, and they're not even human. They're like uh wear jaguar, half human, half jaguar faces. Yeah, we can we'll get get into this. This is really really cool. Um this is actually something that connects to South America and Peru, by the way.
39:48Okay.
39:48>> Um and I think it has its origins in the Amazon. This is kind of my other area that I'm looking into. Um, [clears throat] so you asked about how much they weigh. So get so get this. So the Maya Exploration Center, uh, of which I'm I'm a member of. This is run by my mentor, Dr. Red Barnhart.
40:07On one of his mech expeditions, he had a nautical engineer that was traveling with him who was fascinated by this idea of how do themes transport these heads?
40:19So, he created this algorithm that you could put in uh in I'm not exactly sure what it was, a software or a site or something where you could input the theoretical weight of your mech head and the the in the theoretical size of your balsa river raft. And he found that if you made the raft too big to go down the narrow stretches of the Koets Calcos River and you put a five ton head on that raft, it would flip the raft and sink it.
40:52>> Okay. So the engineering has >> So so going back over this, if it's too long and too wide to go down the narrow stretches of the river to actually make it to the city, it's already too big to go down the river and you put a five ton head on it, it would sink the raft. The smallest head is six tons and the largest head is 52 tons.
41:13So nobody knows exactly how these things were transported. It's just >> all archaeologists have quietly known.
41:21What's What's your idea?
41:24>> Aliens could be >> Well, UFO came down.
41:31>> See, that would be the easiest way to do this.
41:33>> That's what I'm saying. It makes the most sense.
41:36>> But see, the problem with the alien thing is we have to figure out like, you know, the aliens come down and the Native Americans are like, "Please, we're starving. Our children are dying.
41:48We need something like penicellin." And they're like, "No, no, no, no. We will teach you how you need these rocks, right?
41:55>> We'll lift the rocks for you."
41:56>> Because then they can pray to something.
41:58>> Yeah. Then they can pray to something >> and have their soul saved.
42:01>> Yeah. Yeah.
42:01>> Because the real life happens after that on Earth.
42:04>> Could be.
42:04>> See, I already got all the holes filled in.
42:06>> I know you don't.
42:07>> You're not going to plug these.
42:08>> I think you've been I think you've been plugging the aliens every episode.
42:13>> Not every episode. A lot There's a lot of misinformation out there. But when we look at when we look at the ancient world, there's some stuff that I'm like, come on. You know, [clears throat] >> something happened.
42:25>> You know, you know what? I actually I actually I actually have to agree with you. Um, you know, I kind of like when I think of like little green men and spaceships, I kind of roll my eyes at that idea. Um but at the same time then I also find myself like as a like a religious person I find myself studying ancient people and I see the bizarre things that they come up with and the things that they believe and the things that they you know have this conviction about and you know there's entire eras there's two entire eras of Maya civilization where they give no credit to any single person for anything and
42:59they dedicate every temple to a god and never lift up one person. It's like they do it all for the gods. The Egyptians seem to do everything for the gods. You know, there were Greeks who literally actually believed that the gods exist.
43:12Well, I mean, most Greeks did. It was only the philosophers that started kind of questioning whether or not the gods existed. Um, but you know, you see so many ancient cultures go so far out of their way for their gods. It just makes me think like, okay, what is actually the answer to this? Is it is it that is it that people are just looking for something like they're looking for they're looking for an answer so they kind of just make something up? Do they make it all up to be able to control the people beneath them or does it make more sense that these people were so convicted by their beliefs because what they were
43:51experiencing actually happened to them?
43:53M >> and [clears throat] it's like what's the line between what's the line between an ancient person taking some kind of natural hallucinagen and interacting with a deity while he's in that space >> right >> and and an alien what's what's the line that you draw there >> it gets weird man >> and and like and like okay can you know I'm saying this as a very self-aware Christian uh where does like Christianity fit in this you know it's It's this fascinating thing. And so I so I agree with you. I like I laugh about the alien stuff, but then I also have to remind myself like, well, you know, I my my hot my hot take about the ancient
44:32world is that I actually think it's more likely that it's not all made up.
44:38>> Yeah. I mean, I and I enjoy joking about it in all seriousness, and I wonder what the hell's out there in this giant galaxy that we have no idea the ends of it and all that stuff. But we live in this world, especially when it comes to religion, where people want to make things everything or nothing, right?
44:55Religion is at the top of that sphere.
44:57>> Yeah, it is.
44:57>> And there's all these different world religions, and there's these different stories and different interpretations and different translations and different characters and different I could go on down the list, right? And to me, it's like, where are there themes? It's like, oh, wait a minute.
45:11>> That lines up with that a little bit.
45:14That lines up with that a little bit there. Maybe there's some sort of truth there, even if it's a different experience. And then you get to the way that conscious human be human beings have the ability to experience things. I've talked to you about my friend Rzver. So, he was on episode 274 with me >> at the time of this recording. We just recorded a new one. I haven't put it out yet, but it's definitely out now if you're watching this podcast right now.
45:40But, you know, he's an MIT simulation theorist. Absolute genius. Great guy, too. and he's thinking about, you know, some of the most unanswerable questions there are, which which have to do with with the mathematical probability and scientific evidence for the idea that things exist as zero and ones around us.
46:00And we our consciousness just can't understand that. And one of the things many things that he talks about is that when it comes to like UFO sightings or things that anything that has to do with an alien or something not of this earth that appears in written record or oral record throughout human history, it's like it's possible and it's even been reported this way that there are people who can be standing next to each other in the same place and only one person witnesses, you know, something supernatural going on. The other person doesn't see it at all. So something in in this person's consciousness is
46:36transcribed to just a little bit of a different frequency >> that it's not the word to use, but it's set to just a little bit of a different frequency than the other person that it allows them to see this and experience this and then you know maybe get whatever information comes from that. So if you look at things like the pyramids that pop up in all these different places and civilizations that were stuck in different time periods basically over time and when you look at some unexplainable stuff like the old mechheads and and things like that >> where is there potentially some divine intervention we know there's a lot of
47:09world leaders that have liked to lie about oh I got talked to by the gods therefore you got to worship me and they're full of [ __ ] but which ones weren't which ones actually did have some sort of prophet it, you know, seeing through to whatever the other side is. I don't care what that is.
47:26Whether that's God, whether it's simulation, whether it's aliens, whether it's future be, I don't I don't know.
47:31>> But you have to at least, as crazy as it sounds, and it sounds [ __ ] insane to even say it out loud. But you have to ask these questions when you're looking at some amazing innovations that ancient civilizations did where we have evidence that like they they didn't have iPhones, you know, they didn't have something that's totally different than an iPhone but technologically equivalent to that yet they were able to pull something like this off. There is something there, man.
47:57>> Oh, I I totally agree with you. I I I actually think I I [clears throat] really think that the answer is to a lot of this is going to be found in [snorts] uh God, I don't even know what we would call it, like psychedelic archaeology.
48:13>> Psychedelic archaeology.
48:14>> I don't know. I just I just made that up. [laughter] Um but you know I think that um I think that once this boomer generation of archaeologists moves on >> moves I love that was a very nice very nice Texas Christian boy way of saying that.
48:31>> Yeah. Now I I I'm not going to discredit archaeologists. They all do basically all of them do amazing work. There there are people who make their public opinions known that are very bad public opinions.
48:41vast majority of archaeologists work super hard jobs and achieve a lot for very little credit. However, it's impossible for our preconceived notions of our modern-day reality to not bleed into our profession. Right? So I can't tell you how many archaeologists I have spoken to and tried to talk to them about the psychedelics that the culture of which they are an expert in was partaking in. And you know I uh I met an archoastronomer and spent a week with them and >> archoastronomer. [clears throat] >> Yeah. Archoastronomy. It's it's it's kind of a new uh >> what a flex.
49:21>> It's a it's a new frontier of archaeology. It's essentially the study of ancient cultures interaction with the night sky. So trying to study ancient astronomers and what they understood about the about the night sky and how that can further re reinform and change our perspective on the culture that we're studying or the ancient sites that we're looking at. Like you may not understand why this building is not lined exactly to true north and why it's 15° off and why is this building also 15° off but yet the retaining wall is facing a different direction yada yada yada. Well, if you were able to unlock
49:56the secrets of the city, you would realize that each of the orientation of these buildings and walls had a purpose that was facing towards the night sky or the sun and that shadows and knives of light would like shine through the buildings and they're all astronomical solar clocks. It's crazy stuff, dude.
50:11Like, it's it's really really in-depth.
50:14Now, I had this realization uh in like 2021.
50:21Uh I did uh I did some edibles with my buddy and we're laying down looking underneath the >> I hope you did mood.
50:28>> I don't know.
50:29>> They were mood. They just say it for the camera. They were mood, right?
50:31>> They were mood. Thank you for our sponsorships, too.
50:35>> Deep and I enjoy. Anyway, please continue. So, um, so I'm laying there looking at the night sky and, uh, you know, I must have taken like 30 milligrams or something and, [clears throat] uh, you know, I'm I'm I'm blasting off, you know, and and I'm laying there and after a couple hours like I've lost my ego. I'm no longer me anymore. Uh, I'm just I'm just one with the night sky and with the universe and I'm like >> looking at a photo of myself and not even not even looking at it as though it's me. I just can't even believe that that's my body that I exist inside of and makes you have all these
51:10realizations about yourself and the things you need to fix about yourself.
51:12It's very medicinal the whole experience is. And I had this feeling um where I felt like whatever God is, I understood him. I couldn't put it into words, but I could just feel it. I could feel it deeply to my core. And I could only feel it in that moment. Once I sobered it up, it it kind of went away. I wasn't able to like access that. It just it's like it frees you up and opens your mind up to some other I mean I you probably maybe experienced something like this before and uh >> yeah just like [clears throat] that.
51:43>> Yeah. [laughter] And so I'm uh so you know I'm having this experience and then and then it just opened up my eyes to like oh this is you know I can see how a culture doing this for thousands of years and trying to figure out the secrets of their natural world. how religion can form and how people can learn so much about, you know, the introspective aspects of reality. And maybe this is where shamanism comes from and and ancient priests like it probably has something to do with this because I can only imagine if I were to do this for my entire lifetime, the things I would experience and the insights that I that
52:20I might have, right? And um so anyways, I start talking to um I start well as time goes on I experiment more and more and I have different realizations about archaeology. Like I I'll be thinking about these ancient cultures that I'm obsessed with and I will realize different aspects of their society that I'd never realized before. It's like things would unlock and I would get these new perspectives. And uh and I I found it like incredibly helpful. It's not like I do this a lot, but I've just found it incredibly helpful. And so I'm talking to this archoastronomer and I'm like I'm like okay so you study the PBLO
52:55ancestrian people and he's like yeah and I'm like what kind of psychedelics do they do? And so he lists them out to me and I'm like I'm like I'm like do you ever go out and stargaze at night at these you know at these sites that you study these cliff dwelling sites out in the desert. He's like oh yeah all the time. I'm like do you ever do the psychedelics that they did and then stargaze? And he's like no I would never do that. What? and he had this knee-jerk reaction and it's just very it was the boomer and him bleeding through into the archaeology, right? Like because >> you have this preconceived notion of
53:23drugs, you know, drugs, all drugs bad.
53:26There's no there's no distinction between like crack cocaine and weed, right?
53:31>> Oh, well, let's [clears throat] let's talk to Hunter Biden. He's [laughter] >> Listen, that was like listening to Michael Jordan break down basketball. I mean, I was inc That was incredible. So, >> Hunter Biden talking about crack.
53:45>> Oh, I know. Yeah.
53:45>> Best thing. Best three minutes and 15 seconds in [sighs] TV.
53:50>> Please continue.
53:51>> Anyways. Yeah. Yeah. So, um yeah, you know, to so to a lot of boomers, there's no distinction between natural plant medicine, you know, medicinal drugs, things that are mostly harmless, non-addictive. You know, uh marijuana isn't changing the chemical makeup of your brain to force you to become addicted to it. And it's also not poisoning your body, right? Uh like alcohol, cigarettes, other drugs do.
54:16They just destroy your body. Um you know, there's no distinction there. And so he had this like knee-jerk reaction where it was like beneath him to ever do something like that. And I talked to him that whole week and I was like, "Dude, I'm telling you, man, if you did if you if you took these natural psychedelics and hallucinogens with everything you know about this culture, I promise you the pathways your brain is going to go down, you're going to have epiphies about a culture you've studied your entire life because you're going to view them from a perspective you've never you've never experienced before and
54:47you're going to be stepping into their shoes." And it was like, I wore him down by the end. I think he's done it since then.
54:52>> Take this mushroom.
54:52>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Um, and so, um, I forget. Oh, well, we got off onto this because I think that, um, I think that the origins of a lot of civilization is probably found in shamanism and psychedelics. And I think that that I think that like this Renaissance archaeology like like independent archaeology is going to grow and grow and grow. There's already so many people who are researching things on their own and making discoveries on their own. I think maybe one of the best examples is uh the YouTube channel History for Granite. He's done so much research on the pyramids.
55:22>> Oh, I've seen that. Yeah, I've seen that channel.
55:24>> He's done so much research on the pyramids that Egyptologists have acknowledged his his discoveries and his perspectives and it's these things are going to end up in textbooks. It like Wow.
55:34>> Yeah. He's he has been he is like the first wedge. You know, there's been all these other people. He is the first wedge to to go through >> now. That's cool. That's good. You got to break through onto each other's sides a little bit. You know what I mean? We got to >> find some common ground. [clears throat] >> For sure. And I think you I've always cited you as an amazing example of that because you come from both worlds.
55:54>> You come from understanding some of the alternative perspectives and being genuinely interested in it since you were a little kid, but you were also academically trained under Ed Barnhart >> at college like this is this is what you're an expertise in from the from the academic side of it, you know. So you you understand the establishment and the anti-establishment and where both have a point >> on certain things and you've done a really good job to this point in your career >> of straddling that line and kind of being a peacemaker there and I hope you continue to do that because some of the fighting especially you know behind
56:29keyboards on Twitter it's just like guys get the [ __ ] stop this you know get in a room and talk you don't have that >> it's it's a tough place to be um it's a tough place to be I used to want to be involved more in the conversation, like actively going out and being involved in the conversation. And I've realized the best thing I can do is kind of just retreat back into my space, focus on my own work, and interact with people that want to interact with me, right? Um, you know, because I'm really not accepted by the alternative side, although I'm cool with a lot of those people. We're all fine, but in the academics, I'm cool
57:05with most academics, but I'll never be accepted by them. You know, I'm never going to be part of the club. And so I'm just kind of, you know, [snorts] out here on my own island. Yeah. I'm just out here on my own island. I've got a few friends. Yeah. And uh so that's kind of where I'm at. And I think that >> I think that the appetite for all the fighting is dying off. I think people are just kind of over it because it's >> I hope you're right about that, but I disagree. I I I think people >> I I think there's people that unfortunately live for it.
57:35>> You know, it's just how it is and it's human nature. Mhm.
57:39>> We just now have more accessibility than ever to be able to do it instantaneously all day, every day.
57:44>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true.
57:46>> We've kind of evolved to that.
57:48>> Yeah. So, you know, that's my my role is I I want to be one of these people in this kind of uh renaissance of archaeology, sort of doing it on my own.
57:56Now, that doesn't mean I have legal permits to go dig at places, but man, there's been so many artifacts that have been excavated and so many narratives that have and puzzles that haven't been pieced together yet from, you know, so many ar so many artifacts get excavated and then handed over to a museum and never get looked at again. They just sit in a glass case and they sit there forever.
58:18>> Such a shame.
58:18>> And they [clears throat] never get studied. As I've gone around the world and focused on certain cultures, I have noticed patterns between things where I will try to go research it and no other archaeologist has ever acknowledged certain things that I've noticed. And I've realized this particularly with the Americas and um that the Americas are just very much under underststudied. And this is kind of you what you and I were talking about recently where I was thinking about doing uh going to school in Athens and man I always loved the classical world. I I grew up loving it just like everybody else did. My grandpa
58:54uh on his nightstand he had this book called Western Progress and it was essentially the origins of Western society all the way up to like uh uh Henry V in in England from the pharaohs through Greece and Egypt through medieval times all the way to King Henry. And I would look at that book and look at it and look at it and I poke through it and look at the pictures and read what I could. Much more dense reading than I was able to comprehend.
59:18But it was the classical world. It was Egypt, Greece, and Rome that first sparked my love for the ancient world.
59:25And uh it was weird as I was going down the path of committing to go to school for a year. It was going to be about 18 months in Athens um at the University of Athens.
59:40I was I [clears throat] was committed. I was about to pay. And then it was like the day before I just had this huge wave of guilt come over me. And I felt like I was betraying a world that had given itself to me. You know, like studying the Americas was not something I ever anticipated that I would do. Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge, huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram
60:17and X by using the links in my description below.
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