0:02I'll be bringing our guests, the host of the Duran, Alex Christoforou and Alexander Mercouris. I think I got it right. The co-host of the Duran, popular online news channel providing unique insight into a range of geopolitical issues.
0:19For my money, they're the best DUO IN THE WORLD. Let's welcome Alex and Alexander.
0:25Welcome back to the show, fellas.
0:27>> Well, thank you very much, Jimmy, and it's a great pleasure to be here, if I can say.
0:31>> Now, I just want to show you this.
0:33I don't know if you saw it. It was actually Lindsey Graham who tackled the guy.
0:37And he got the shooter.
0:39>> [laughter] >> All heroes don't wear capes. All heroes don't wear capes.
0:44>> [laughter] >> There he was. He said uh He said, "Normally I I use mat for my yoga. I use a But mat wasn't available, and today I had to use this guy as a" >> [laughter] >> Did you So, is there any reaction across the pond to that to the shooting?
1:00>> Oh, there's been huge amount of talk about it, and much discussion.
1:04Of course, we are not in Britain quite as, you know, up-to-date with all the minutiae of what has happened, but obviously people have been very, very interested, and much discussion about a completely totally irrelevant subject about how this would affect the King's visit to the United States, >> [laughter] >> which I have to say, I think to me, in amidst everything else that's going on, is about interesting thing that you could possibly talk about. But the British do love the monarchy, and they do talk about it all the time whenever they can.
1:39>> So, no no nothing serious. Do you You don't think an affect a potential assassination of the president is serious?
1:47>> I I think by now people have become used to pretty much anything where Donald Trump is concerned, certainly in Britain. And once upon a time, not so very long ago, this would have been enormous use in Britain. But today, somehow, even though it was as it has got been a lot of coverage and it's been all over the media, it's not perhaps quite hit home to the extent that it has in the United States as one might expect. So, people are worried about the war, people are worried about the economy. We have a major governmental and corruption crisis playing out in the UK as well.
2:30These are the topics that interest people in Britain most. And as it's the political class, they don't like Donald Trump at all for many reasons different from the reasons that other people in the United States don't like him. I mean, you know, they find him rather unpredictable and vulgar and difficult to understand and difficult to cope with.
2:53About attacking Iran, well, that's not such a big deal for them. But anyway, they they they they are more concerned about these other things. And they really do wonder whether sending the king at this time is really such a great idea. But he's going, so there we are.
3:10>> So, when when you when you say people are more worried about the war, which war?
3:17>> Yeah, I mean, in Britain it is overwhelmingly the war in Iran. I mean, that's the one they're focused on.
3:23A lot of people a a lot of young people especially care an awful lot about Gaza and the conflict there. And this is a very big issue politically in Britain.
3:37It's lost the Labour Party its vote support amongst young people. And bear in mind the young people were voting heavily for the Labour Party. By the way, the young people I mean by that people under 40 to be quite clear.
3:52They care about Gaza. They're now switching if they're left-wing, which most of them are, to the Green Party. That's for them still even more important as a war than the war in with Iran. But that that is that is the war that they are mostly concerned about at the present time. It is the war in the Middle East, the wars in Iran and Gaza. Those are the wars that they care about. Ukraine, well, that's more a matter for the elite.
4:25>> Really? That's how So, Alexander, what do you say?
4:29>> Uh here in in Cyprus and Greece, they're very concerned about about the war in in the Middle East with Iran because it affects tourism, Jimmy.
4:38>> Right.
4:40>> They're very very concerned about how this is going to affect the tourist season. Uh when the war kicked off, there were a lot of cancellations.
4:49A lot of people were canceling their their trips to to the island. And uh and the government's very worried that the tourist season's going to get hit really hard, whether it's it's the fear of traveling uh into the region, whether it's it's the rising cost of traveling, the rising cost of jet fuel.
5:08So, there's a lot of uncertainty and there's a lot of a lot of fear that that is going to be a very bad summer if this thing doesn't get resolved quickly. And it doesn't look like it's going to get resolved quickly, so >> Isn't that a popular >> As I said to you here.
5:21>> Is is that a popular destination for Israelis to go vacation?
5:26>> Uh Cyprus?
5:27>> Yeah.
5:27>> Cyprus and Greece?
5:29Yes, it's a popular destination to to also invest in and to purchase property as well.
5:37>> And >> It also acts I mean, Cyprus also acts for for Israel it acts as uh how do I explain? As an easy like like an an easy entry and exit point as well because we're only about a 20 25-minute flight from Cyprus to to Tel Aviv.
6:00So, it acts as an easy way for for Israelis to make it to to Europe and maybe to even go further down to the United States or whatever. So, they use Cyprus and then from Cyprus they're in the EU and then they can travel onwards.
6:15And and vice versa as well if if people want to travel towards Israel, Cyprus is is a easy place to to make the trip.
6:23>> Is are there are there any military installations in Cyprus?
6:28>> Uh, we have the uh the two British overseas uh airbases, the territories. Those are British uh overseas territories though.
6:37They're not considered part of the Republic of Cyprus.
6:41So, when we got our independence in 1960, uh the British decided to keep two airbases as part of the uh the the independence agreement independence treaty. And uh and those are actually considered to be British uh territory.
6:56>> Oh, really? Okay, because I I thought I thought I remembered something about the military planes offering us the taking off from Cyprus to I don't know if to to bomb Gaza or to help refuel or do something uh for Israel. Did I Am I making that up? Did I imagine that?
7:16>> Um during um yeah, during Gaza there was it it was quite a a big a big scandal what was happening, I would say on the island, the use of the bases of the British bases.
7:29Um and there was a lot of pressure on the government to try and do something.
7:33Uh the interesting part was that this time around with the Iran war way in the beginning uh there was a a couple of drones that were fired into the bases.
7:44At least that's the narrative that we got. Um, one drone hit one of the bases here in Limassol where I am staying right now currently. It didn't do any damage. There were no injuries or anything like that, but many people believe that was a type of warning from uh from Iran using using Hezbollah. So, the drone was not fired from Iran. It was just fired from from nearby where Hezbollah was in Lebanon.
8:08And they fired the drone into the British base and it was kind of a a brushback message. Uh, this time around don't use the bases and don't get involved in in this conflict. And uh, it appears to have worked to be quite honest. Um, the government has has has worked exceptionally hard to to keep the bases uh, out of this conflict.
8:34>> Okay. All right.
8:35>> Even though once again it's not really under their control.
8:38>> Right.
8:39>> Which is which is the weird part about it.
8:41>> That is a weird that's weird. It's weird that the United States has uh a torture prison in Cuba. It's also it's all these are all weird things to >> Exactly. Exactly.
8:51>> So, go ahead each of you go ahead and tell me tell me um how you see the war, how you see the ceasefire. Do you see how this ending?
9:00Take it wherever you'd like.
9:03>> Well, we have a ceasefire. It's very unstable. We did a program in which we discu- we describe the situation as unstable equilibrium. In other words, we reached the sort of stage when on the surface nothing is happening. But below the surface a lot is happening. I mean the Strait of Hormuz remains shut.
9:26The economic pressures around the world are growing. And the United States which of course is the attacking party looks stuck. There's reports this morning that the US military have given advice that more air strikes, more missile strikes, more bombing is not going to achieve anything. So, that leaves us in a situation where you either negotiate, which is impossible.
9:57This guy This president does not want to negotiate. The government The American government does not want to negotiate.
10:04Or they plunge into a far more dangerous, far more reckless things like ground operations. And well, there has to be a worry that that might come. But, at the moment there are no negotiations taking place. All talk from Donald Trump about negotiations is absolute fiction.
10:22All claims by Donald Trump that there are splits within the Iranian leadership are fiction, as well. We are at this stalemate situation at the moment, but it's an unsustainable one.
10:36>> Well, let me just show you we're talking about Larry Johnson today said this. He's a former CIA analyst who is usually very good on this matter. Here's what he said about what you just talked about the military advising Trump.
10:52>> Um I I fully expected it that it would have restarted today or maybe tomorrow.
10:59But, there's been an interesting development.
11:02Um under the general in charge of Central Command, or maybe it's an admiral now.
11:09They've got a branch that deals with aviation.
11:12So, combined forces aviation combatant command.
11:16That's an Air Force general.
11:18And then you have a combined forces maritime uh combatant command.
11:24So, one controls what the Air Force does, one controls what all the Navy assets do.
11:29Interestingly, there's not a ground force commander.
11:33Cuz they do they don't really have ground forces in play.
11:36They both I I'm I understand have told the joint force commander, the head of CENTCOM, "Hey, uh we we should not restart this thing.
11:48If we do, it's going to be a real problem for us. Our best option is to get out. Get out now."
11:55So, the you've got basically the the the leading generals in Central Command going back up telling the president, "No.
12:05We don't think we should continue doing this."
12:08Uh they have communicated this to uh General Keane, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
12:14It's important, you know, you I think you know from your military career that it's the chain of command that goes in this case CENTCOM to the president. It doesn't Or it's CENTCOM, Secretary of Defense, to the president.
12:29Uh the uh the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is a military advisor, essentially, for the president.
12:36But, when your military guys are saying, "No.
12:40Uh this is gone far enough. We don't need to keep doing this. This is going to get us into trouble."
12:44Um if if that holds up, then I'd say that you know the we're we're essentially looking at the end of the war.
12:51>> So, um Alexander, do you think this is the end of the war?
12:59>> Well, no.
13:00>> Okay.
13:01>> Thanks.
13:02>> You know, okay, um real quick, I think that we're we're uh we're at a waiting game stage. That's where I think we're at.
13:10I I think it's it's very clear that uh that Trump is is hoping that uh that Iran collapses, somehow.
13:18Their economy collapses, their leadership collapses, the blockade of the blockade of the blockade somehow causes everything to to crumble. And I think that's what he's uh that he's hoping for.
13:30And Iran is is is also in a waiting game. They believe that they have the leverage.
13:35And that that if they wait this out long enough, then the pressure is going to mount on Trump and he's going to have to agree to something.
13:43I I think that's where we are. I wouldn't be surprised, Jimmy, if if Trump tries, I'm not saying he's going to be allowed to do this, but I would not be surprised if he tries to just drag this on and on and just try to phase out Iran.
14:00That would not surprise me at all.
14:02>> You mean you mean try to just kind of drag the war on to where uh Iran kind of goes bankrupt in a sense?
14:11>> No, I think Trump just kind of, you know, he just keeps on extending the ceasefire or says they're going to collapse every week. It's a different post on Truth Social.
14:20And eventually it just kind of gets tuned out.
14:23>> Well, here's the here's what he's here's what he said most recently on an air tarmac.
14:28>> Bonnie Ron, as you're figuring out who is in charge, if the hardliners or IRGC-aligned leaders have greater power in Iran, can the US make a deal with those >> I'll deal with whoever's running the show.
14:39>> I mean, are these communicated to you?
14:41>> I'll deal with whoever runs the show.
14:43They don't know. There is they are fighting with each other.
14:46There's tremendous infighting. They're probably fighting for leadership in many cases.
14:52I think they're fighting not to be the leader. Because we got to have two levels of leaders, but I'll deal with whoever we have to, but there's no reason to wait two days, have people traveling for 16, 17 hours.
15:05Uh and we're not doing it that way.
15:07We'll do it. When they want, they can call me. We have all the cards. We've won everything.
15:12>> You have all the cards.
15:14>> So, that's Trump saying we're not going to negotiate, but isn't that Trump really responding to Iran saying we're not going to negotiate and him saying that we have all the cards really means that Iran has all the cards, right?
15:26Because Trump has reached the end of his escalatory powers. And if he does, they're going to Iran will wipe out the Gulf state. So, Alex, what do you say?
15:35>> Well, I think that's exactly right. I think I think he's talking nonsense about what he's going to do for what the you know, the Iranians the Iranians here have the cards. They are in control of the Strait of Hormuz, which is the ace card in this game. Um it's all very well for you know, the United States or Trump for people in the administration to think that they can wait out the Iranians, wait for the splits to appear, wait for all these problems to develop, or perhaps alternatively just try quietly to walk away from this conflict.
16:16But whilst the Iranians retain control of the Strait of Hormuz, whilst they're stopping um export of oil and other products from the Middle East, the problems in the global economy are constantly intensifying.
16:35And in time, they will have a severe impact right across the whole global economy and on the United States. So, he can't just walk away. At least I don't think he can. He might want to, but I don't think that is an option for him.
16:54Uh you're quite right. It's the Iranians who don't want to negotiate. I mean, he talks about not sending his people to Islamabad because there's no point in doing so. The reason there was no point in sending with Gohmert and Kushner to Islamabad is because the Iranians said, "We're not going to meet them. It's not going to happen." So, it was the Iranians who are saying as they have been consistently saying that they don't want to talk except to discuss their terms, their proposals for ending this war which are proposals which Donald Trump is not going to accept, certainly not now.
17:36>> And so it doesn't it there is no way out for Trump. He's stuck and here we see the foreign minister Aragachi which it's very funny is it's is it interesting to you that they have Italians that are negotiating for them?
17:54Anyway, here he is meeting with Putin.
18:00Now Putin's giving him a warm handshake, giving him a nice hello. What do you What do you think What message does that send to Trump and the rest of the world in your in your opinions?
18:11>> Well, can I mean first of all, what Putin said is that he praised Iran for its heroic defense of Iran itself, of the country, of its sovereignty, its territory. So, the Russians are very clearly straightforwardly saying that on this issue they back Iran. They consider Iran to be the victim of the war and that it's Iran that deserves political sympathy and support. But what what is not being reported widely in the international media is that Putin didn't meet Aragachi by himself. His foreign minister Lavrov was also there, but there was also someone else in the room and that was Admiral Kostiakov
19:01who is the head of Russian military intelligence.
19:05So, Russian military intelligence has been widely suspected of providing information and assistance to the Iranians with satellites, with radar systems, with drones, and that kind of thing. And well, here we have this important military intelligence official, the head of Russian military intelligence, and he's in the room with Putin, and he's meeting with Iraqi. So, at the very least, we should interpret that as a further sign that the Russians are not just giving moral and political backing to the Iranians, but they're giving more backing as well. This is a situation where the United States is not just
19:51taking on Iran, but is taking on Iran with Russia behind it.
19:58>> And China.
19:58>> And and I was going to ask you what the isn't China also I mean since China and Russia are now hand in hand because of our idiocy in Ukraine, uh isn't China also on board?
20:12>> Yeah.
20:12>> I would >> Yeah, where uh yeah, where uh where Russia is, you can you can bet that China is also there. Absolutely.
20:19Absolutely. So, I mean, you know, the the Trump walking away from this would have been possible actually if he didn't put his blockade in Hormuz when you think about it. If you go back 2 weeks ago, there was the there was the article from Politico, which talked about how Fox News is Jack Keane, the the the that that general general commentator, was pushing the idea about a blockade on Hormuz, and that would give Trump the leverage that he would need in order to to get the deal that uh that he wanted.
20:55And and so, once again, it looks like uh the Trump White House decided to to go forward with the with the naval blockade of uh of Iran.
21:04And uh and until they they remove that blockade, then nothing really happens. If they remove that blockade, ships are going through Hormuz. They have to pay the toll in Chinese yuan.
21:18And those ships are not going to be Chine- um not going to be United States or Israeli ships. But every other ship will pretty much be able to to pass through Hormuz.
21:29>> And so does everybody else outside of the United States or wherever uh you know, in Greece and the UK, do they see this as a complete blunder by Donald Trump and that he was led by the nose by uh Benjamin Netanyahu into this?
21:44>> That is the overwhelming view in London.
21:48Every part of the British political um class um thinks it is all across the media here. It's the thing that people are talking about to each other when they discuss the war. I mean, people who are not members of the political class and elite. That this is a catastrophic mistake, that Trump was talked into this by Netanyahu, that he didn't consult widely, that he didn't discuss it with the Europeans, that the Europeans could have actually warned him in advance. I mean, all the indications that the war was going to happen were out there. But they didn't. But anyway, the point is Trump blundered into this. He made
22:28assumptions based on what Netanyahu told him, that this is going to be a walkover, that Iran would collapse like a house of cards. He didn't expect the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz. He didn't understand the full implications of this. And now he's stuck.
22:47>> And so do you think that Trump is actually compromised by Israel in some way, that either they have blackmail on him or his kids or his wife or somehow they got him because it doesn't make any sense what he's doing, especially him attacking Iran when his whole first term was about non-interventionism. That's how he got elected, and that's how he ran. He put Tulsi Gabbard and J.D. Vance in his cabinet, which were anti-interventionists. He spoke about it, how the biggest blunders was our Middle East wars. And then he goes and does it, and Marco Rubio let the cat out of the bag when he said that, "Oh, we
23:23had to do it cuz Israel was going to attack them, and we were afraid they're going to attack us back."
23:28So, do you Is the sentiment where you are that yes, Donald Trump is compromised, or what do you think?
23:35>> Many people think this. Many people talk about this in London. Again, it's a wide widely discussed topic. Um There is very little evidence behind it in the sense that, you know, we don't have any concrete information. There's no photos that have appeared or documents that have appeared which directly prove that Trump has been blackmailed or uh manipulated in that kind of way. What I would say myself is that I think that the worst There may be some element of this. I mean, I think this quite possible that there is Trump has had a long, complicated career. It's possible something like that happened. I'm
24:16guessing that if people have pressure points to put on him, it is more likely to be money than anything else with Donald Trump. In other words, he's been bankrupt several times. He's had to raise loans in all sorts of ways. It may be that he um has borrowed money in the past from various people, and that they're sort of calling in, if you like, the the the the the moral checks from that, if if if if you want to say it that way. But I think there's something else at play which should never be overlooked, and that is Trump's sheer vanity and grandiosity.
24:58Here comes Netanyahu. He tells him, "Look, let's attack Iran now. It's going to be easy. We've already done all the hard work. We've already knocked them around many, many times. Syria's gone. Lebanon, Hezbollah is a shadow of what it was. So, join us.
25:18Help us defeat the Iranians now, and then you will be the great president, the famous president, the president who finally defeated the Iranians, who avenged the hostages that were taken in the embassy in 1979, who ended the nuclear enrichment and all the nuclear bomb and all that talk. And I think Trump finds that kind of talk irresistible. And I suspect that that played a very, very big role in what happened.
25:52>> Yeah, it it in in a sense, you know, he he would get his, you know, he'll get his head on Mount Rushmore in a sense. This would be the thing that all the Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I I Go ahead.
26:04>> No, I I I also think there's an element with this Trump White House. I don't know if you guys sense it, but this this second term of Trump's is is very profit-driven.
26:12It seems like like his first term, you didn't see all of the the the the trading and all these things that were going on during his first term. Of course, you can make the argument that he was completely occupied with the whole Russia gate stuff.
26:28But I just get the sense that in this term, the the Trump team and and those around Trump are are focused on on just making big bucks.
26:40That's just the sense that I get of it.
26:42And a lot of the decisions that they make, they treat it like a real estate deal. They treat it like some sort of business deal. Every decision they're making is some sort of business deal, some sort of real estate deal, there's some sort of profit motive behind it.
26:56And and I think this is really really screwing things up because you can't engage diplomacy and foreign policy as if it's as if it's a a real estate transaction.
27:06But but there's a lot of trading and and and and profits that that that is driving this this second term of of Trump's. And he he he seems to like it. I I think Trump actually enjoys this aspect of of his presidency.
27:26>> Oh, it's I I'm 100% with you on there.
27:29That's exactly you know, that's what really gets him going is when he can make money and seem like a business genius.
27:35And you know, I mean Jared Kushner has no official position in the United States government and one of the reasons was was because you know, everybody was making a stink about how he made billions of dollars setting up deals with the Saudis and so Trump was like, yeah, okay, we're not going to put him in and there there he is, him and his real estate partner. And of course they're acting as as agents of Israel.
27:56They're they're not acting in the interest of the United States cuz if they were they would have got a peace deal, but they're acting in the interest of Israel. Um that that's pretty is that clear to you?
28:06It's clear to me.
28:09>> Yeah, I mean one of the big questions that I have with with his his negotiating team, his envoys is is who are these guys?
28:15>> Right. You know, I could understand Whitkoff I guess during the whole Ukraine thing, okay, >> I'm appointing a special envoy. It's going to be Steve Whitkoff, I trust him, he's my buddy, my real estate buddy, whatever. Okay.
28:27Um I I I got past that.
28:30Understood. But then Kushner joined the the Ukraine negotiating team. Just out of the blue he just showed up.
28:37And and now he's the lead and he was the lead negotiator Gaza. He's also been he's also now the lead negotiator for for Iran and and he has no position. And where is the Secretary of State in all of this? He's hanging out with Trump at at an MMA event and he's watching mixed martial arts and he's just hanging out.
28:54He's he doesn't deal with with Iran, he doesn't deal with Ukraine. What is he doing?
28:59No one knows what what what Rubio is is there for. He's the Secretary of State and he's also the NSA guy.
29:06So Rubio holds two big positions. People forget that.
29:09Since Mike Waltz was was put as ambassador of of the US of the US to the United Nations because he was involved with with the whole spying with Netanyahu and all of that stuff. Rubio took over his position.
29:22And they haven't found a replacement at all.
29:24>> I actually did forget about that. Thanks for reminding me about that. I thought Rubio was just a payback to Mary Maddison.
29:32That's why he got appointed. That's what that was what I always thought and that you know, he always wanted Cuba and now they're getting it. They're doing Cuba.
29:40They're blockading it and you know, doing collective punishment on them for absolutely nothing and nobody seems to care.
29:47Except Russia. Russia's helping them.
29:49They send oil.
29:51And you know, let's let me let me take it back more to Israel and you know, before October 7th, I had covered Israel and the Palestinian conflict without ever really understanding it until October 7th.
30:03And uh the greater Israel project. Are people aware of it now in Greece and in the UK of what the great were they always aware of it? I was not. It's new to me and it's obvious that's what this is about.
30:15They're go ahead. What what are the people are people aware of it? Were they aware of it?
30:22Do you think it's important?
30:24>> I let Alex go.
30:26>> just for Cyprus for Cyprus and for Greece and I would say more immediate Cyprus people are roughly aware of it. They don't talk about it much.
30:36Um before October 7th, before everything happened, no one was was aware of it. No one was talking about it. Uh now you do hear some people talk about it.
30:49But um there's I I would say my sense of things, Jimmy, is that there's not much concern.
30:56At least when when Cyprus is is considered in all of this or the region in general.
31:02Um there's discussion, but there's no uh alarm, I would say.
31:07And I think a lot of that has to do with uh with the way the the geopolitics has been structured in the Mediterranean in that you are seeing a a type of of of a three-country alliance that is formed between um Greece, uh Cyprus, and Israel. And that has to do with energy, with gas.
31:28And this alliance is thought by many to to be the the force that will be able to >> [gasps] >> to to block Turkey's ambitions in the region.
31:39So there is that dynamic that uh that has played out over the years.
31:44And a lot of it is about uh a gas corridor that will that will go from from Israel through Cyprus onto Greece.
31:54>> And does that that Wow, I didn't I didn't even think about that. Did that have to do with the the Didn't they recently discover like 500 billion dollars worth of uh natural gas deposits?
32:04>> 20, 25 years ago actually they they discovered a a lot of gas in the entire Mediterranean region. The The difficult part about the region is is that it's disputed. And specifically Cyprus is disputed between the Republic of Cyprus, internationally recognized Cyprus, and then you have the the Turkish-occupied north.
32:24And and Turkey, which also says, "Well, this is not uh Cyprus's is gas and energy.
32:31This belongs to to all of the Cypriots."
32:33And and Turkey also plays a role in this energy corridor and in this energy security.
32:39So so So it's a very complicated situation with with the gas, but the thinking is that you you take what all the gas and you move it through the Mediterranean onto Greece and onwards.
32:53>> So uh Alex, what is the situation with the greater Israel project in the UK?
32:58What what Same same question to you.
33:01>> Yes, I think I think it's very similar in terms of awareness to what you have in Greece and Cyprus in the sense that you know, a few years ago, people just did not know about it here.
33:14Um more and more people do know about it now. More very many people are interested in this conflict and are becoming very interested in the causes of it. And unlike in Cyprus, where we don't because we are further away and we don't have the same kind of economic and geopolitical concerns that the people in Cyprus do. It here amongst a significant section of British society, there has been a a great revulsion and great anger about what has happened in Gaza and it has become an important political issue and one which is shaping and reshaping the political landscape.
34:01It must be said that this is coming up a great rains a a enormous amount of official resistance. I- I- If you are careless in what you say, you can be prosecuted. You can have uh you can have all kinds of uh repercussions fall upon you.
34:25But as often is the case, the more the authorities try to do that, the more they try to sort of protect the Israeli position, if you like, in some ways the the bigger the backlash becomes. And it becomes also something which people are starting to challenge and challenge successfully in the courts. So, Greater Israel project, yes, people are now have heard of it and then they're talking about it and they're angry about it and they oppose it. And this is part of a society of a larger sea change that is taking place in Britain.
35:05>> Um, I think, you know, they say Israel was invented to for a safe haven for Jews. I think it is the it's proven to be the thing that makes Jews the most unsafe around the world for sure for sure. I certainly this iteration of Israel and the Israel project and Benjamin Netanyahu and his right-wing government, it is you know, they call it anti-Semitism, but I just call it a natural reaction to what Israel's doing.
35:32Uh, go go ahead. You want to >> Many many people in Britain, including to my absolute knowledge amongst the Jewish community here, are making precisely that point. The the same point that you have made. That far from Israel acting as a safe haven for Jews, it's uh putting Jewish people in Israel itself in danger because this is a society now that is trapped in a constant cycle of war.
36:01And it is creating problems with Jewish communities even in societies like the British where I mean if you anti-Semitism has not been a problem in Britain for a very very long time now. Suddenly this criticism, it's completely wrong to call it anti-Semitic by the way. I mean, I think this is I mean, this is just far-fetched. It's mendacious to say it in the way that he just speaks it. But uh it it undoubtedly many people who are Jewish feel very uncomfortable in this situation. And it's not difficult to understand why.
36:41>> So let me just talk about uh Lebanon quickly. Uh is that all right with you?
36:47Yeah. Okay.
36:48So uh despite the ceasefire, the Israeli army published footage They just It's just amazing that they're they're their own worst PR people.
36:59Uh the uh the Israeli army published footage showing the demolition of large numbers of houses and villages in southern Lebanon. And here I'll show it to you.
37:09That that's what they're doing to countryside houses in Lebanon.
37:14It seems So this is supposedly during a ceasefire.
37:23Look at this. That's just is It's It seems so maniacal. It's like hard to even wrap your head about it. And here um This is US Israel Iran ceasefire live up to okay. Um So let me just What what do you make of uh uh the Lebanon situation? Do you see And how do you Where do you see it going?
37:50>> Well, in a kind of a sense in order to understand this entire crisis, you have to go back to Lebanon because it's the origins of this crisis ultimately were in wars that Israel fought on the territory of Lebanon from the late 1970s all the way to the 1980s when they fought the Palestinian the PLO there. And they occupied large areas of southern Lebanon. And that provoked the emergence of Hezbollah and of a local Shia resistance militia, which basically drove them out. And this has been a major concern, a major sore for Israel, one that they always feel they need to resolve. Because in 2006, Hezbollah basically defeated them in
38:46pitched battles. So, the assumption is Hezbollah managed to do that because it's backed by Iran, which is partly true, but in order to really succeed, in order to be able to say that you've achieved your objectives, it's not enough to defeat Iran. You have to break Hezbollah as well. In fact, that's even more important because Hezbollah is right there on Israel's northern border. And for the Israelis to just give up and stop attacking Hezbollah, given their present in the state of mind, I would say is all but impossible. So, yes, they will go through the motions of declaring ceasefires, but they will immediately
39:31act to undermine those ceasefires. And partly that is because they want to defeat Hezbollah, but also they also are using breaches of ceasefires in Lebanon in order to call into question the larger ceasefire between the United States and Iran, which Israel is also unhappy about. It wants to undermine that, too, because they still want ultimately to defeat Iran and to overthrow the government there, however difficult that may seem to be.
40:09>> And do you see this going on for a few more years? I do.
40:15Israel and let. I mean, it was it certainly is a different layer that Iran adds to this because they've been adamant about including Lebanon in on the ceasefire.
40:28Um so what so go go ahead uh uh >> Well, this has been going on since the late 1970s.
40:36There is absolutely no reason to think it is going to end anytime soon. I mean, there's been conflicts between Israel and Hezbollah and Israel and other militias that existed in Lebanon, resistance militias that existed in Lebanon for decades, long before Iran and Israel came into conflict with each other. And um there is no reason to think that's going to end. I don't myself believe that Israel can achieve its objectives in Lebanon. I would have thought that if they couldn't achieve them over 30 years, they're not going to achieve them now. So, given that Israel cannot stop, there's every reason to think this is
41:21going to go on for an extremely long time. Even if something can be patched up between Iran and the United States, the conflict in Lebanon is going to continue.
41:35>> But but it exposes I think Jimmy brings up a good point in that it exposes how how weak Trump is next to to Israel, next to Netanyahu. In that this is a key condition for Iran. If if you want to get to some sort of a peace or some sort of a deal. I mean, Lebanon is is top on the list for Iran as they've been giving out their their terms.
42:00And and even Trump a week or two ago, he posted on Truth Social, there's a ceasefire, I told them to stop, they're going to stop. So, Trump put himself in the position of of he's the one that's that is actually running the show. He's the one that can tell Israel what to do, and if he tells Israel to stop, they're going to stop.
42:21And and that hasn't panned out. And so, as Iran keeps keeps Lebanon as as a top item for any kind of negotiated settlement, and Israel continues to to to go after Lebanon continues the the the war with Hezbollah in Lebanon, and and it blows up the the settlements like what you showed us, Jimmy. It it shows that that Trump really isn't calling any shots.
42:49I mean, if if Trump really could, if he really was that powerful to tell Israel to stop, then Israel would listen to him, and they would stop.
42:58Trump would say, "I need a deal.
43:00We got to get a deal with Iran. You guys need to stop." And they would stop, but they're not.
43:04So, so it really does expose the the weakness of Trump's position.
43:09>> Well, you know, uh we we're aware about this show that if the wars do stop, uh you know, I think Israel has attacked eight countries now in the last year. It's kind of crazy. Uh if the wars I mean, they've also publicly um uh talked about and expressed their desire to go into Turkey, to go into Saudi Arabia. It's just it's the greater Israel project. But, um if the wars do stop, then Benjamin Netanyahu goes on trial, and he goes to prison. That's the one the one good thing about Israel is that they do put their leaders in prison. The one bad thing is that it's going to keep this war going on because
43:45the Benjamin Netanyahu doesn't want to go to prison, right? And people are are people aware of that?
43:51>> In Britain >> Trump's trying to get him pardoned, isn't he, Alexander? No, Trump's trying to get him pardoned.
43:55>> He is. Absolutely. Absolutely. In Britain, people are aware of it. I mean, I again, this isn't perhaps a very widely known thing, but it is certainly a topic that is discussed in the media.
44:07Um, the the media in Britain is very divided. You do still have very strong supporters of Israel in parts of the British media, but the media that leans more towards the center left, like The Guardian for example, it has become very very critical and very critical of Netanyahu and they are reporting this very thing.
44:29>> Yeah, that that's the to me that's the big sticker. Um, here's one more um thing I wanted to talk to you about uh Israeli daily Haaretz reports that 10 Israeli soldiers have died by suicide since beginning of the year, including eight cases in the current month alone.
44:49Uh Haaretz investigation published on Sunday revealed a sharp rise in suicides within Israeli's military and security forces with at least 10 active duty soldiers taking their lives since the start of 26 including six this month.
45:03Well, it was eight before.
45:04Uh in April eight soldiers and police personnel in active service died by suicide alone. Three reservists who had participated in the Gaza genocide and two police officers marking a significant increase. The trend continues a broader escalation since October 7th, 23 when the Israeli regime began its genocidal assault on Gaza with seven active duty suicides in late 23, 21 in 24, 22 in 25 and the highest figure in 15 years. Additional cases include at least 15 former soldiers who died by suicide after discharge by the end of 25 with at least more cases since with at least four case more cases since
45:44and three in this past month. The report links the surge to mounting psychological strain from prolonged genocide. What Boy, that genocide, it is tough on the brain, isn't it? In a real That's a stressor. That's worse than rush hour traffic, what I hear.
45:59Reduced support systems and systemic failures.
46:03Um, the number of soldiers who suffer from PTSD has increased by 40% since 2023. In 2024 and 25, at least 75% of all suicides among the Israelis were soldiers returning from Gaza genocide according to the Times of Israel. Since the start of Gaza genocide, the Israeli regime has killed at least 72,000 Palestinians and wounded more than 172,000 others, most of them women and children. And here's just a few um So, that's what they hear is from Israel. Not enough, says Sherif Osman.
46:38You lose your soul when you spend your life shooting children in the head, dismembering babies, repeatedly raping detainees including children until they die, burning people alive, driving Merkava tanks over living handcuffed and ankle cuffed people, and burying children alive.
46:53So, um it goes on. What uh I don't even know what my question would be to you, but I Do you think that the Israeli military is going to collapse or what what what what what I mean, doing a genocide really I know I joke about it, but it it really does have to take a psychological toll on you.
47:11>> It takes an enormous psychological toll, and there's been a lot of reports about this apparently in the Israeli media itself that the the military in Israel is becoming increasingly demoralized.
47:24And it's not just that they're having to do these these terrible things, which does take a severe toll. I mean, we must remember a lot of soldiers are men um men and women of conscience. So, I mean, this this does have an effect. But, apparently, the fact that this is a war in which they're trapped into a war without end, it is exhausting, it is deeply demoralizing, there is no real sign of any final victory, of any return to normality, and gradually this is creating growing stress within the Israeli military.
48:03I think we're a very long way from the point where it just collapses. I wouldn't expect that to happen and certainly not anytime soon. But that doesn't change the fact that this is having an effect, not just I suspect on the military but on Israeli society more widely. And of course in Israel the military plays a very large role in society.
48:28>> I mean everybody in Israel has to serve at one point or another in the IDF, right?
48:33>> Yeah, absolutely.
48:36>> So whenever So I've seen videos of Israeli tourists in Vietnam. I don't know if you've saw it and seen that those and people are you know verbally attacking them and kicking them out of restaurants. And at first I was like, well, you can't you know not all Israelis but at the same time no all Israelis do eventually they serve in the IDF. So it kind of is justified in a sense, right?
49:00>> [clears throat] >> All right. Well, anything I I I didn't get to talk to you about Ukraine. You know looks like do you think that the United States will pull out of NATO? What the hell's going on with Europe? Why do they want to keep this Ukraine war going? I just don't understand it. Do you understand it?
49:16Nobody can explain it to me why Europe is so gung ho on having a war with Russia.
49:22>> It it is becoming very obsessive and the degree of obsession cannot be understated. But the thing to understand about the Ukraine war is that at a time of growing political and economic and social crisis in Europe at a time with the political order in Europe in is fracturing the war in Ukraine is the one thing that every part of the political elite can agree on and that gives them coherence and a certain degree of internal unity and of course it is also the thing that they can use in order to justify imposing more controls on people, more surveillance of people, more you know, regulation of what appears and what is
50:14written and to the extent that people accept some of this narrative, it also acts as a unifier. It's the one point of contact if you like that's left between the the elite and the larger the larger population of Europe. So it has a functional purpose, a very bad functional purpose, but you can understand why it is there.
50:45>> For for for the globalist elite, Jimmy, Ukraine is or actually war with Russia, I would I would actually say it's war with Russia is the next big grift. It's the next big money maker. We've gone through through the climate stuff, we've gone through COVID, we've we've [snorts] gone through through project Ukraine.
51:06Right? We just gave the last 90 billion, the last big 90 billion payday, so that's been all wrapped up. So now we have to move on to to war with Russia.
51:15Europe has to go to war with Russia, NATO has to go to war with Russia and they need to sign the military contracts and and they need to to up their budget to NATO to 5% and everyone is going to make a ton of money off of this because this thing can last for three, four, five, 10 years.
51:34So so so this is the the the next big money maker for them and it's going to be a big one.
51:40>> So so that's what so that's why. I so again, so there is no rational I mean, that's rational I guess, But, there is no like interest for the people or this isn't going to actually benefit anybody in Europe. This is just for the the the WEF globalists who put the the money in their pockets as Julian Assange taught us these wars aren't meant to be won, they're meant to be ongoing so they can transfer money from the treasuries of different countries into their pocket, right? That's what the So, that's what it's about then.
52:10>> It's hurting the people. It's hurting all of us in Europe.
52:12>> Yes. Yes.
52:13>> When do the people rise up?
52:17>> Not not for a while.
52:18>> [laughter] >> Not for a while. I don't I don't get a sense of of people rising up here. I don't know Alexander what you're thinking >> No, I mean >> I don't see anyone thinking about rising up yet.
52:30>> Whereas people have become very very um conscious of many of the realities about the situation in the Middle East and particularly in Gaza, the same is not true about Ukraine. The vast majority of people here in Britain I I mean, they they may not have the same obsessive passion about it as the elites do, but they basically accept the underlying narrative that this is a um you know, a a valiant country that was attacked by the aggressive Russian bear and if when if the bear finishes with Ukraine, well, it will come after us. So, we must spend lots of money and give up lots of our freedoms because um if we don't, then
53:17they will they will come here and that will not be good for us. So, a lot a lot of people accept that. They don't really think it through. But, bear in mind that there is no counter narrative about it here in Britain and in the rest of Europe. Europe does not have the kind of independent alternative media that you find in the United States. I mean, there's no there's no people like that who come out every day and talk about these sorts of things and who have have audiences that runs into tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands or even millions. You don't have political parties which are seen as acceptable,
54:05which argue against this. Certainly not in person.
54:10To the extent that that exists at all, Germany a little bit, France perhaps a little less, but there isn't really a counter narrative here. And because of that, expecting people to protest about Ukraine, come out and oppose it, well, I just don't see it happening.
54:30>> They'll they'll protest when the austerity comes.
54:34>> Yes.
54:34>> But the governments in Europe will never admit that the austerity is because of all the money they flushed down the the Ukraine toilet. They'll never make that connection. But the austerity is coming and it will come to to just about every country in Europe. We already see it in Finland.
54:53Finland, they they they approved the 90 billion to Zelenskyy and the very next day they announced budget reform and austerity. The very next day.
55:04>> Yeah.
55:05>> Wow.
55:05>> So so I mean, it's it's coming, but the the government will never admit well, the reason that you're going through this is because we gave all our money to Zelenskyy. Just like they never admit the reason you your your your prices in electricity are through the roof in Europe is because someone decided to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline.
55:22>> They don't they really don't put that together?
55:25>> No, it's it's this has been one of the most astonishing things. People just do not make the link. You read articles in in by intelligent, well-informed people and they tell you about the very, very high gas prices in Britain. They're four times higher than in the United States.
55:44And they never ask, "Why did prices become so much higher after 2022? What happened in 2022 that led to the prices leaping up in the way that they did?" It's one of the greatest achievements that I've ever seen in politics that, you know, an entire continent has been lulled to sleep over the linkages that are making it poor.
56:10>> That is a I, you know, again, I always looked at Americans as the dummies and Europeans as the smart people who knew what was going It's just it seems like it's the opposite now that the Well, is it because So, you're talking about you don't have the independent media apparatus in Europe as we You mean like that we have the Tucker Carlsons here and the Glenn Greenwalds and the Gray Zones and and things like >> And Jimmy Dore's.
56:36>> Is that Well, okay, I don't want to blow my own horn too hard, but something like that. So, so that's what you're saying that that is It's kind of >> That's exactly what I'm saying. In Britain, we don't have anything like that. I mean, there there is nothing comparable to this. There is to small extent in Germany because Germany has always had a sort of subculture of um protest and which goes back quite a long way, but basically to the '60s. Um a little bit of that in France, but it doesn't have the kind of traction. It doesn't command the attention that you you find from that kind of media in
57:19the United States. And you you mustn't overestimate our sophistication and our intelligence here in Europe. Um we are we may we are not that much brighter, at least we're nowhere near as bright as some people believe.
57:35>> No, in Europe they watch I was out to dinner Jimmy and and I said I'm going to be on on the Jimmy Dore Show later on this evening and the people I was having dinner with said, yeah, I watch Jimmy Dore. I mean They they watch they watch your show.
57:49They watch the people in the United States in order to figure out what's happening.
57:52>> Yes.
57:53>> Here.
57:54>> Yeah.
57:55>> Well, you know, I I do get that sense when I do I was just in the UK and Ireland and Scotland and before that places like Sweden and the you know, the people just come out in droves and I'm just shocked. I really am and they don't and you know, they talk about the same media problems there that we have here with people like Bezos owning the and you know, the concentration of power in the media and you know, just in Australia the same thing almost worse.
58:24Um it's it's it's shocking to me. Uh I really did think well, you you know, your cuz your societies are they're certainly they get it more they take care of the people more you have health care. We still can't get health care. You get sick in the United States you go bankrupt if you get cancer. People have to you know, they they Trump just did a political uh uh uh a PR stunt where he had a DoorDash driver. I don't know if you have that but so they bring him McDonald's and it was a it was a grandmother and it says DoorDash Grandma and he was there to do a PR stunt about how he cut the the taxes on her tips. And but and there
59:02there was a gaggle of reporters there and not one of them said, don't you think this shows how we have a failed society that a grandmother has to go work a minimum wage job to deliver food so she can pay for the cancer treatment for her husband instead of and that never got none of those questions came up because of course it's the legacy corporate media and it wasn't people like me standing there. But so that's I mean you you have that and you know, you got if people get sick, they still generally get taken care of. People still don't go bankrupt if they get sick in your societies. I mean, that's a big
59:33that's a big big thing that I think we're never going to get here in the United States, right?
59:38>> One effect of which, however, is that it does help to keep political passions down. I mean, first of all, I would say that's an entirely good thing that we have all of these things. I mean, I am a strong supporter of them. But, one of the effects of them is that they are stabilizers, which keep the overall political system stable, and probably take away some of the edge of the protest that you might otherwise see. The other thing to remember about all of these great social achievements is that they are today, they are legacy achievements. They are the achievements of social movements that became very
60:22powerful in Europe in late 19th and in the first half of the 20th century.
60:29The the social welfare models that Europe has today are very much a product of that era. So, we haven't really built on them. We haven't developed them. We haven't expanded in the ideas that you could say were foundational to those models. We haven't expanded them to include if you like political democracy, even economic democracy in the same way that we might once have done, and which people once aspired to.
61:10>> Uh everybody's still mum's the word about COVID.
61:15Nobody's There's no people Nobody's here is pissed off about >> this is this is There is immeasurably more discussion about that question COVID in the United States than there is in Britain. In in Britain, um there's been no rethinking of it to any serious extent at all.
61:37>> People don't even talk about it here. I mean, they'll mention it in passing, and and you get the sense that they understood what what was going on. I mean, you you get that sense in conversation, but uh it never lingers on the topic at all.
61:51They they just kind of move on from it.
61:54>> Um I mean, I saw as I pulled the other day uh that uh over 50% of Americans now think the COVID vaccine caused mass deaths.
62:03So, and but you'll never hear that on the legacy media, but you will hear that in a poll, right? So, >> Yeah, but but I've never seen that in a poll here in anywhere in Europe, and I'm confident that if there was such a poll, I would know about it. Just saying.
62:19>> I mean, people talk about it in conversation, but the media uh the publications will never put out a poll about it. The media will never The media never discusses it at all anymore.
62:32>> Yeah.
62:33>> Yeah.
62:33>> No, I mean, they don't they they never really discussed it to begin with. They just repeated propaganda. There was never real discussions. They never brought on people who could debunk what they were saying. Just like with Russia Gate, you know, in the United States as as soon as Russia Gate happened, they people like Glenn Greenwald were persona non grata on the shows that they were always on.
62:56And so, anyway, all right. Well, let's you I I should let you go because you've been very generous with your time.
63:02Everybody should check out The Duran. We love The Duran, and I really appreciate you making time for us here. It's always a pleasure and fun to talk to both of you, and hopefully I can you know, I'd love to meet you both in person my next time I'm over there.
63:16I think I might be in the Mediterranean later this year and I'll certainly be back in the UK for sure.
63:21>> Well, you're you're always welcome here, Jimmy. You're always welcome here.
63:24>> I appreciate that. I really do appreciate it.
63:27Thank you Thank you both very much. It's always enlightening and as Judge Napolitano says, you've always been very generous to generous with your time and accommodating commentating my schedule.
63:37So, I really appreciate you both. Very fine. All right, we'll see you next time, my friends.
63:42>> Thank you. Thank you, Jimmy.
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