The video argues that the newly released Epstein files reveal a broader and more disturbing network of elite, political, and governmental connections than many viewers realize. However, the speakers caution against unsupported sensational theories and insist that accountability must be grounded in verifiable facts.
0:01Story man, man of the hour for all the wrong reasons, Jeffrey Epstein.
0:06I got to tell you guys, I have obviously been covering this case a lot. It is the biggest story of my lifetime, I think. But, for all the wrong reasons, obviously.
0:16You know, I've studied it religiously since 2019.
0:21And yet, when this latest tranche came out on January 30th, it it blew my mind. I mean, I really it I knew this was the worst thing. I knew it was total depravity. I knew there were all kinds of powerful people involved. I knew there were all kinds of governments involved, people above government. I knew that.
0:43It's beyond even what I knew. I mean, what what was your reaction?
0:48>> I think that the [snorts] first thing that surprised me, um, was the breadth of it, kind of what you're um, referencing, where you have everyone from Peter Thiel to, um, you know, all kinds of diplomats, all kinds of businessmen, um, all kinds of elites involved in one way or another, um, and it was it was it was sort of stunning to see, um, you know, all the post-conviction interactions, um, and that jumped out at me. Uh, and now there are some uh, you know, kind of stories we're following right now that I think are are important, um, in terms of the Banon relationship. I guess I guess my big thing in the in the
1:42larger Epstein discourse that we're focusing on is we're a news company. So, we we try not to play the theory game.
1:49Some people have to, and we think that's an important role. Our role is to focus on the substance. And if I may, I think that it's important for people who really care about this issue to not let the crazies derail it cuz I think there have been some crazy theories that have gained a lot of traction and you look at them, it doesn't take a lot of research on justice.gov to see how, you know, how how wrong or misleading or or weak some theories are that I think are getting a lot of attention.
2:17>> What are those theories, too?
2:19>> Uh, DiCaprio eating kids, you know.
2:22>> They're saying DiCaprio?
2:24>> viral >> Yeah, that's insane.
2:25>> tens of thousands of likes. I think cannibalism in general's weak from the latest files. I get that, you know, the reference to the cannibal.
2:34Um, and that, you know, there was testimony from one guy who who himself seemed a little deranged in his post-death where he claimed there was cannibalism.
2:43I think that one's pretty weak. Um, I think there are a lot of kind of red herrings that are are are popping up.
2:51So, I think that is where you can but I think there are some aspects that deserve If you want real change, if you want heads, you have to be adherent to facts.
3:03>> Yeah.
3:04>> Because otherwise, I think you made a great point. I think like Howard Lutnick, um, I think that if I were Now, the problem is the guy in the White House does also have a kind of a complicated relationship with Epstein over the years where you hear on the one hand he's his best friend and Virginia Giuffre comes from Mar-a-Lago and you also he's he's regularly calling the pad at the Palm Beach house and then you also have him reporting the crimes to the sheriff and you also have him talking to journalists and you also have him sort of, you know, and in another sense kind of being one of Epstein's biggest rivals.
3:40So, you have like he has a complicated but Howard Lutnick, you know, I thought I thought you made a good point. Like, why is he why does he still have a job, you know? I think he he he lied in such an obvious way about his relationship with Epstein. I think we have gotten to this point of like um you know, not caring enough to to issue real world consequences.
4:01And for some people you need criminal proceedings, for some others you just need uh adults to step up and go you're fired, you know, you you you uh you know, should not be a leader in a country having kept ties and lied about ties with a guy like Jeffrey Epstein. So I guess I don't know. I there's so much to talk about.
4:23I don't know if Ross what you would say were your initial thoughts and kind of where you are now.
4:28>> Well, I'd say thankfully I was in the Middle East when I received the stuff.
4:31So I so I was taking it from a distance.
4:32>> Coincidence maybe.
4:33>> [laughter] >> Yeah, yeah.
4:34>> Coincidence? No. Uh Yeah, I I don't know. I mean I One of if not the most common DMs I get on Instagram are many of you asking me what my favorite books are. Well, today's your lucky day because if you use the link in my description below to join my newsletter, I'm going to give you my top 10 book recommendations right now. Also, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make money producing content from the show, you can do so via the Discord link in my description below. And finally, you can join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes via the Patreon link in my description below. As
5:07always, please take 1 second to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already.
5:10I really appreciate that. Also, the like button's a big help and you can join my newsletter via the link in the description below.
5:15>> To me someone like Howard Lutnick is just ridiculous. It's just absolutely ridiculous.
5:20>> I mean to lie about this it's obvious that Trump the Trump administration's policy with everything is to never show weakness. And if you fire someone and you force a resignation, you're showing weakness and you can't do that. The fact that Pam Bondi still has a job, like like all these people I mean it's just discrediting to the entire government.
5:34Beyond that, I mean I I don't know. I read the stuff. I read obviously all the the pizza references, the grape soda references and everything. You're like, what the [ __ ] is going on here? The jerky.
5:41Um but I don't know. I mean that's like I like I've read it I've read the emails I've read the stuff that our writer Max Hodges, has put up much of stuff um that's been really good.
5:50But beyond that, I don't have like a comprehensive theory of it.
5:52>> So >> I Let me ask Let me ask you. So, like the jerky thing. I like we've read the same emails.
5:58Like I read that and I'm like, "Okay, this is really weird."
6:00>> Yes.
6:02>> I don't know how to go beyond that. Cuz I'm like, "Yeah, it's possible they're cannibals."
6:05That also seems like a quite a large jump.
6:09So, I'm That's kind of where I am. Like, "Well, I don't know."
6:11>> Well, this this is exactly what I was going to reply to with what you were saying, Tony, is that >> [sighs] [snorts] >> there are things that in the past, even as it pertains to this case, if people have brought it up, I would have been like, "Come on. Get the [ __ ] out of here. Please stop. Like you're The crazies are taking over."
6:28It does not mean that all those things have now happened, though.
6:32>> Yeah.
6:32>> And people want to run with that.
6:34However, there are things, and I have to admit this, that in the past, I would have dismissed and ruled out, that on a zero to a 100 probabilistic scale, I can no longer say are zero. I cannot say cannibalism is at a zero. Do I think it's at a 90%? No. That's where I'm with you. I don't I I I think that people are like or did people are like 100% this happened? I'm like, "I need more."
6:57>> Yeah.
6:58>> But what's in those other 3 million documents that they're holding back? Why is Tim I tend not to trust people from [ __ ] Congress and government, so let me put a big, you know, asterisk on this. But why are people like Tim Burchett, who have seen some of those files, throwing around terms like cannibalism and stuff like that? You know, like you see these people talk, and you're right, the jerky thing could be a lot of stuff. There was a guy I cited on the Kiriakou podcast. Dave, can we look it up? Epstein jerky documentary. It's like Doctor Something Reacts. I really appreciated how this guy broke down the emails, cuz
7:33he didn't draw any conclusions. He just said, "Here's the emails. Here's what they're saying. Here's all the references to jerky. It's weird."
7:39>> Dude, I will say part of this, and in at the end of the day, you have to pursue truth and so even if it makes you like nauseous, I like reading the discourse around pizza, for example, where on the one side you have people saying, "Well, almost all of it was in conversation."
7:52Like most of the pizza references were Epstein talking to his urologist. And therefore pizza and grape soda in those contexts were referring to medicines he was taking for like STDs and other things. And most of the pizza references when you break it down. And then you read other ones and it's not as convincing saying, "And so all of a sudden you just sort of feel nauseous having to do the the due diligence for this story."
8:17I also do think a lot of the people on who showed up to Congress, I mean, there are, you know, a few of them have certainly changed their tune dramatically in the last 3 years and there, you know, are hundreds of millions of dollars at stake.
8:30Uh but it's also true that um I think that some people who are so micro-focused on this story are missing the larger picture.
8:40>> And what's that?
8:40>> Uh the larger picture being uh over that from not having a college degree, taking classes at NYU to uh becoming the most trusted tax estate planner in the world and getting 100 however many million dollars from Leon Black alone.
9:02>> Mhm.
9:02>> And getting the most expensive townhouse in Manhattan for $1 and being friends with Ehud Barak and two presidents that like hit that journey is is bizarre.
9:14And um there are just so many profound oddities about the Epstein case.
9:20And I just I'm still in the I don't know what to make of it. I really don't. I really I know that might sound you know, like everyone's kind of expected to have a theory. I don't. I really don't. Like part parts of it lead to yes, there are evil people and they have some friends who may or may not know the extent of their evil [snorts] and they kept up affiliations for one reason or another. Maybe they didn't want to have an explosion, a public fallout, whatever.
9:44Or maybe they were deep in it. And then there were other parts like the Ghislaine Maxwell of all people, his companion is the daughter of Robert Maxwell. Of all people. Of all people.
9:54You know, and it's like and and the connecting and the his line to Putin and um >> What do you make of that?
10:01>> I just don't know what to make of it.
10:03Yeah.
10:03>> Well, he he was connected what what what's clear Dave Smith actually had a really good tweet on this that I'm not even saying I agree with, but it's a very interesting point to put out there.
10:12And he said I used to think Jeffrey Epstein worked for Mossad. I now wonder if Mossad worked for Jeffrey Epstein. I'm not there, but he draws a good point in the sense that it is very very clear. It is crystal clear that Israeli intelligence is involved with this. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a [ __ ] duck and that's an issue. It is also clear to me now that our intelligence is involved with it, too. That also That was already clear to me, but it's more than I thought. And it is also clear to me that this guy was a peddler like a Robert Maxwell who peddled intelligence we know to multiple different
10:50intelligence agencies around the world.
10:52I have no doubt that Jeffrey Epstein did things like that. That's why I think Tucker is really spot on about this about a super government where he's like you elect people, but they work for people who are fixers who work for the real people. And Jeffrey Epstein is the fixer who works for the real people.
11:09>> But why do you think I mean like Robert Maxwell had ties to Soviet intelligence, UK intelligence, Israeli intelligence, American intelligence, right?
11:16>> I don't know about ties to American intelligence, but the first >> Certainly the other three.
11:19>> Yes.
11:20>> So then why I mean, don't you think they share intel I mean, don't you think they just find these these people and like I I don't under I don't understand the thing of being above them. I've heard the Tucker super supernational stuff.
11:32I don't really get that in compared to Yeah, they've got a guy who's share who shares them information and they all identify the same guy.
11:40>> And on the super I I know there's always that clip of like the guy on Patrick Bet-David who said, "Here are the most powerful people in the world and you don't know them." I'm like, I get how that's catchy. I don't know if I buy it.
11:52And I also think that let's if you assume that a lot of things about our world don't make perfect sense. It's also true that the Jeffrey Epstein story needs explanation and there were a lot of bizarre but like there are just so many public dissenters. You'd think that they'd be a little better at weeding them out or at least controlling the system more. I'm saying if there were a super government What was that?
12:12>> Public dissenters.
12:13>> Just people like you know, would Tucker be able to speak the way he does if there were this all-powerful government?
12:19>> Okay, so so here's the difference.
12:22The world has changed in the last 2 years drastically. You couldn't talk about this 2 years ago. If I put the word Epstein spelled incorrectly in a title, boom, demonetized.
12:32>> Mhm.
12:32>> We've talked about this. I You can go back to episode 39 with Mike Spear.
12:35We've talked about this case and that video is demonetized, by the way. It's it There was a real lid on this and what happened is the volume of people rose so large and the story got so out of their control, these people that used to think they could just run the world without any you know, any of the little people bothering their order of business at all, finally got caught with their hands in the cookie jar that they can't put a total lid on this anymore. The world has changed and the fact is and and this is this is just the [ __ ] 500-lb elephant in the room.
13:12You have a guy who was associated with Israeli and American intelligence for sure.
13:18For sure. That is At this point, if someone does does not say that as a baseline, I can't really have have with them about the case cuz they haven't studied the case.
13:28And we now have 3 million files that are Oh, it's locked away in violation of federal law, by the way. We're never going to show it to people. We have files that protected people who are tied to these intelligence organizations, and now they've had to un-redact some of those things cuz they got caught doing them.
13:44And the fact of the matter is when you put this all into context with the fact that the the Israeli government has had an awful PR campaign for over 2 years now to where basically the entire world is against the government and what they're doing there.
14:03They ain't like that no more with shutting people down.
14:07I could have put out a video 2 years ago. Remember Mr. Beast used to do those videos where when he was young where he would just say the same word, [ __ ] I'm going to say this word >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, 2,000 times.
14:17>> I could have done a video where I was like, [ __ ] Biden, [ __ ] Biden, [ __ ] Biden, like over and over and over and over again, and it would have you know, maybe done a million views or something like that. But if I had said that and replaced the word Biden with Israel, you'd never hear my channel again. That is not the case today. That is not the case. You have people who there is such a volume of people speaking against their actions that they cannot put a lid on it. And sometimes, and this is the [ __ ] 60 chess play, sometimes I wonder if that's the idea.
14:46>> Well, I mean, just to like we ran a three-part or four-part series on Epstein back in 2021 on Instagram. It got over 100,000 likes across I mean, we were a smaller page then. We probably had like 600,000 followers.
14:55>> Mhm.
14:55>> Um and it was just about about essentially you know, the argument for why Epstein likely was murdered.
15:03But it got out there. Like >> That's it.
15:06Did you get to like the Did you get to the Intel stuff?
15:10>> I honestly it was 2021. Um >> Yeah, I can't remember.
15:13>> But but it did but it got out I mean >> I think we covered Acosta. He belonged to Jeffrey Epstein.
15:17>> we definitely got got to that to that stuff.
15:19I just said like Like when I look at it Again, I don't I just don't know and I haven't gone through it nearly as closely as as I will at some point, but Isn't it It's definitely to me when I look at it, I don't see evidence I haven't yet seen evidence that the most egregious thing that the child sex trafficking stuff to all these powerful people happened. What I have seen evidence of is that he is a lot of people coming to him for prostitutes, coming to him trafficking other kind of women.
15:54Is that diff- I mean I don't know. Like like to me like the whole you have this you have this thing >> in those trafficking.
15:59>> Huh?
16:00>> There were kid- it's in the emails. He was trafficking young kids, too.
16:03>> It's in the emails?
16:04>> [ __ ] yeah.
16:05>> What's it say?
16:07>> They're not even the ones in code. I got an 11-year-old. I got a 13-year-old stuff the stuff that Michael Tracey forgets how to read.
16:13>> Well, wasn't the Howard Lutnick one wasn't that him talking about his own kids when he was talking about >> That's different. I'm not even referring That was disgusting to me, but like that's that's different. There are literally emails of them going back and forth talking about this. And then Steve, can you pull up the email of Jeffrey Epstein saying I'm that guy about the movie?
16:31Just This is all you need right here.
16:34Well Yeah, I >> But can can you put up on the screen?
16:37Come here.
16:37>> Yeah, yeah, he's he's going to he's he's trying to find it where where he's like Where's the other one? God damn it. I thought this was it. I'm sorry.
16:46The other one where he's he literally says I'm that guy.
16:50>> Hold on. Hold on. Can you go back? I'm just trying to read that again.
16:53>> Oh, this email made my blood boil. It's it's like you couldn't even write this in a movie. He's like I I almost I almost he was like I almost fell over because I'm that guy. She had no idea I'm that guy.
17:04And it's from this same time.
17:08We got to find that email.
17:10December 20 I just had an Epstein survivor in that chair by the way, too.
17:21>> Really?
17:21>> Who was trafficked to that island.
17:23>> Damn.
17:24>> Yeah.
17:25This is a case This is left and right. It is the most bipartisan case of my lifetime. They're guilty.
17:34>> Yeah.
17:35>> And and it is such a [ __ ] red line that makes my blood boil when people cannot go look like when I talk to other people in my life >> like, all right, what's the >> I'm like, you know what? I get it.
17:48You're going about your daily life. You don't have time to look into this like I do, but like please read some emails.
17:54Please just just go look at the depravity of what this guy was doing.
17:57Listen to the people who survived it and are brave enough to talk about it. It's just it's beyond the pale to me.
18:03>> But my question that I come back to is is I feel the outrage about getting some justice, getting some heads to roll.
18:16But my question is whose?
18:18You know, you have to start with actual um you know, targeted. It's not enough to say like we need the system to like if if we want justice, I always wonder who do you start with? Like is it Bill Gates? Well, to my understanding, I don't think Bill Gates went to the island. I think he kept close ties and went to the townhouse a few times um in Manhattan. I I just always wonder like who goes down and in what order because I think that the my thing is that the collective outrage I think is totally legitimate. It's absurd that you know, this was blocked up for so long. But like you do have to be tactical in terms of who to go after.
18:59All right, it looks like we're getting another picture up. But I I do want to hear your thoughts on that. Like who do you go after and what order?
19:05>> You go after the people that are clearly implicated in this. You go at you go after the people that start with the ones that already have witness testimony all over them. You I shout out to the UK for at least arresting Andrew. It's over probably the Al Yamama deal and not this yet, but it that involves Epstein. But you start with the people who are clearly implicating themselves in here.
19:24You start with the fact that you have a guy who is listed as a [ __ ] co-conspirator in the documents and covered up for like Les Wexner, who's [ __ ] in the emails going back and forth with this guy, who gave him all his money inexplicably to a [ __ ] college dropout. You start with the people who were trafficking these girls through modeling agencies. Some of them apparently are already dead because they unalived themselves and stuff like that.
19:45But you go and dig into the case like you would dig into any other case and you don't protect people simply because they pay the right people and are very wealthy. I am with you, Max, that it it like my instant reaction, right? Like I'm an emotional guy first and you see some of it coming out right now.
20:05I train myself to be logical.
20:07>> Yeah.
20:07>> I usually don't lose it on camera. I've lost >> Yes.
20:10>> times since this case has come out and I don't I make no apologies for that. But like I have to train myself to get it all out, which is usually on a phone call to someone close in my life and then pace around, calm down, and look at the logic. Okay, so now I'm calm down.
20:25>> Yeah.
20:26>> And I'll look at the logic now after my little freak out.
20:28And the logic is that there is significant evidence against a lot of people who happen to pay all the right people, who are wealthy, that has been covered up and that needs to be uncovered up. And we are talking about the most basic [ __ ] thing that everyone should be able to agree on here, which is that you don't you don't abuse anyone, but you especially don't abuse kids. So the fact that they are not that they're Bondy has said they're not going to bring any cases about this already. Are you [ __ ] kidding me?
20:57Shut the [ __ ] up about the Dow.
21:00>> Yeah.
21:00>> The the Dow.
21:02>> Julian are you are you is he pulling up the one about the kids? So this is this is my this is essentially my understanding of this. So, like the way I understand it, like the stuff that I've seen and I look at it, I'm just like, "Okay, what I understand from what I've read and what makes sense to me."
21:14Jeffrey Epstein was trafficking women.
21:16I'm I'm not saying I'm not saying that, you know, whatever. Just like if I like go to these because I cuz I haven't seen I haven't seen this one, but I've seen other ones.
21:23He's trafficking women to other powerful people, and you have these people like the like the Emirati guy, you know, who's saying who's I think they're going to Istanbul and saying, you know, "Can you bring me some girls here?" Like it's very obvious like what's going what's going on there.
21:35The kids thing, that's where I look at it and I'm like I just I haven't to be honest, I just haven't seen the stuff. I'm not saying it's not there. In the stuff I've gone through, I haven't seen that part of it substantially. I I'm not saying Jeffrey Epstein himself. I mean, he literally went to prison for soliciting a child prostitute, right? Child prostitute, raping a kid. But, you know, in terms of the overall thing of of the of the cabal of these people you know, taking their turns with these with these children. I I have not seen that substantially. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm not I'm not rejecting
22:04it. But, well, I well, I mean, I've like I said, I've gone through a bunch of them. I haven't I I cannot >> But but Julian, like I I always I I I I I think that with some of this like I hate Bill Gates.
22:17I would beg you to look for a news company to that that has hit AI. I think a hard like um has given it the scrutiny it deserves, and all these companies making fortunes, and all the leaders behind them in the tech world, I'm deeply skeptical of. I'm shocked it doesn't get more coverage.
22:35There's part of me that wonders if Ro Khanna, who represents Silicon Valley, isn't pushing this issue so aggressively partly because it's a huge distraction, Elon Musk begging for the file release when he's in them in an embarrassing and stunning fashion, and yet he still wants discourse to be Epstein-focused. Like there's part of me that wonders what their angle is in all this. But, I'm also like I looked at all the Bill Gates stuff, all of it. And I can't pin him, and I can imagine prosecutors can't pin him to a crime. Should he be societally canceled? That's another question because he associated with this guy. He
23:10got divorced over his this relationship, and people warned him about Epstein. So So maybe on a societal level, we start to look at Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation or the Bill Gates Foundation and just go, "Okay, we we should This is no longer a treasured thing. Maybe he shouldn't be speaking at all the Emirati summits or Davos or you know, or the what's it called? Sun Valley.
23:34Maybe he shouldn't be speaking at all these.
23:37But is Bill Gates criminally implicated?
23:39I bet Les Wexner I I I don't know. I bet he would be. I bet he would be.
23:44Um Leon Black, I bet he would be.
23:47Um J.P. Morgan, I'd like to see more there. I mean, they they paid up a big settlement. I think it's like 290 or something, 230 or whatever. But um I I I do want to see more investigations. I just I guess I I'd like to I don't know. See more And I don't trust Pam Bondi to do it.
24:07Like I don't trust Pam Bondi to do it, but I would like to see some more criminal proceedings. But it's got to start somewhere. It's got to start somewhere.
24:13>> start somewhere. And to be clear, there are some powerful people that are fun to talk about because we hate them for a lot of reasons, and we hate the fact that they're associated with the guy where right now we don't yet have evidence that could say definitely was with a 15-year-old or something like that. Off the top of my head, maybe people in the comments can correct me if they bounced on them in the emails. But like Bill Gates is a guy that I cannot say right now is someone that we have any proof that he was with a 15-year-old or something like that. There's a lot of smoke around it, I'll say that. But
24:40there are other people like Prince Andrew where we absolutely do.
24:43>> But But like with Bill Gates, too, it's like even the Russian prostitute STD, that was an unsent email from Jeffrey Epstein to Jeffrey Epstein. Is it Do I believe it? Sure, well, that's everyone's judgment.
24:54I tend to think it's compelling. I mean, Bill Gates we know cheated on his wife.
24:58Yes. That was known. Melinda was very concerned about his Epstein relationship and that's quite a detailed thing to type to yourself if there's not some substance to it. Uh so like to me I everyone can draw their own conclusion on that one. I think he's going to Uh but but um but like with the underage, that's where I'm like I mean also there's Russian girls I I I think has the FBI looked into how they were procured and what they're I don't know. So >> And they would go get 15, 16-year-olds from over there.
25:29>> Yeah, like so I I think there's a lot to look into and I think Pam Bondi's handling it poorly. I was surprised at how much of Trump world was caught up in this.
25:40And it made me almost trust the DOJ a touch more and that they were willing to and like Howard Lutnick would have you know, probably given his life for all that to not come out and Elon as well.
25:51But still I would like to see all the files out, you know, um >> Yeah, they they Nancy Mace who's been one of the few brave people on this going after it tweeted out last night that they're not they're not releasing the rest of the files because it would implicate intelligence matters. And kudos to her for doing that. No [ __ ] Sherlock, but I appreciate someone like in her position saying that publicly, but it's like with who?
26:17>> Yeah.
26:18>> Who's it implicating?
26:19>> Yeah.
26:20>> And why is why is that such an issue?
26:23>> Yeah.
26:23>> You know, and it's because if there's one thing in society, [ __ ] there's people who have come back from homicide.
26:32>> Yeah.
26:33>> In some cases, but if there's one thing that if it's written in stone, you are not coming back from.
26:39>> Yeah.
26:39>> It's being a pedo.
26:40>> Yeah.
26:41>> It is the ultimate, as it should be, it's the ultimate scarlet scarlet letter >> Right.
26:47>> on all of these people.
26:49>> Yeah.
26:49>> And so you know, sometimes do we try people in the court of public opinion before we have facts for sure? For sure. And And that's that's not fair.
26:59But, it is the ultimate blackmail weapon.
27:03And by the way, and uh this is a conversation that, you know, especially right now, people don't want to have cuz they just want to burn everything down, and I get that. But, like are there guys who are probably sitting on hard drives in in probably [ __ ] Tel Aviv that show proof that they had sexual relations with with an underage kid and had no idea when they were doing it that that was an underage kid? Yeah, I've no doubt about that. But, their proof won't matter.
27:35They're still going to be, if it ever came out, they're still going to be labeled that way, and there are so many ways to get people with this. And this guy that you are talking about a guy like in Jeffrey Epstein, obviously a sick, sadistic individual.
27:51But, it is very clear to me from all the accounts we've heard of him, and you know, I just had one of them in here personally. He was a master-class manipulator. He knew how to how to Mm. Be like a parasite on your desires and your biggest weaknesses, your biggest touch points, and just attack them.
28:14And so, we've seen what he can do to so many people, and it's like the rabbit got out of the hat at some point, and these agencies decided, "Oh my god, we can never let anyone else know about it."
28:25And now, people know.
28:28And I I I I think it's a Listen, there are enough people who are totally uninformed on this, who haven't kept up with it, which is what the government is counting on to make this go away while they distract us with [ __ ] wars in Iran and all that.
28:43There are enough people that if things don't happen soon, sadly, cynically, this will drift off and nothing will happen.
28:53If that is not the case though, and a bunch of people keep their voice loud and proud about this and say we're not letting this go.
29:00This is a civilizational threat of a story.
29:04And this is this is this is the point I want to make to to give you guys a chance to to bite this off, but like as much as my emotional reaction is like burn it all down.
29:14I know that that ends really badly. If you burn down all of Western civilization overnight because you've decided that a bunch of people are satanic pedophiles and therefore everyone is.
29:26Well, the world as we know it ends.
29:30Instead, the harder thing to do, but the right way to go about this is imagine the greatest, biggest, most historical mansion you've ever seen in your life, like from the Roman times and it's it's sprawling and it's got a million rooms in it. And you know that a bunch of those rooms are filled with asbestos and termites and cockroaches.
29:50And they got to go.
29:52The easy thing looking at the task in front of you is to be like I know it's a story, just burn it all down. And we'll figure it out later.
29:58That's the easy thing to do.
30:00The harder thing to do is to put on a hazmat suit and go room by room, one by one, and clean it out. That's what we got to do.
30:07>> Julie, what about I mean all the people who aren't implicated? Like in that like in that world view, I mean that like that's to say that's to say that, you know, you have the entirety of the elite, but it's not the entirety of the elite, you know? Let's look at the Bush administration. For everything George Bush did wrong, George Bush's name isn't in there, is it?
30:23>> Bro, he bombed brown people for the love of the >> Well, but but sure, but like that but I'm not I'm not talking about that, but just like his name's not there, right?
30:29Or Obama's name isn't there and like there's a huge number of people who aren't there, which is to say, okay, then what's the if, you know, if there is a So, for me like look I guess I struggle to put together the coherent narrative cuz if the coherent narrative is everybody's compromise. The idea here was to compromise everybody with power. There's a lot of people who aren't. So >> You're making my point.
30:51>> This is what I'm saying.
30:52What what they they you got to go after those ones who are.
30:55>> That's right.
30:56>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
30:56>> room by room >> But I guess [clears throat] >> the rooms that actually have asbestos.
31:00>> But how does that it it if Okay, cuz if there's two ways of looking at this. One is that Jeffrey Epstein is a you know, essentially a rogue individual who loved being at the center of the social circle here is peddling women to all these people or girls or whatever it is.
31:12For the love of Let's just say if you're saying George Bush is buying them for the love of the game, Epstein's doing this for the love of the game, right? If that's if that's one worldview. And then the other is that it's a co- concerted effort to blackmail everybody, right?
31:25And yet most powerful people are not implicated. I mean, there are legions of super super super powerful people. I talk about Jamie Dimon, right? Talk about They're like there's all these people who shape the world in many ways who aren't who aren't involved here.
31:38>> Jamie Dimon is implicated.
31:40>> I was going to say JP Morgan.
31:41>> It's a better example.
31:42>> JP Yeah, that's true actually. Yeah.
31:43Okay, sure. But okay, but you know, I mean, whoever. I mean, there there's lots who aren't.
31:46>> Yes.
31:47>> So so how does that Just like I'm not I'm not saying this like whatever, but how does that like in your view How do you explain all the people who aren't implicated?
31:54>> Yes, you're making my point for This is what I'm saying. We are seeing so many powerful huge names across culture, across different levels of society, be it politics, be it uh banking, be it tech, be it it international diplomacy, whatever it may be who are implicated and the easy angry response to that is to be like, "They're for all of them." I'll give you another example on this.
32:20On November 22nd, 1963, the United States government whacked a sitting president. That's a fact.
32:27Let's say there was 100,000 people working at CIA and Pentagon at the time.
32:32You think it's reasonable to say 99,000 [ __ ] 985 of them had no idea that was going to happen.
32:40>> I would say, yes.
32:41>> Okay. Meaning like it was a small group of people, a little cabal if you will, that decided to make that decision.
32:47>> Yeah.
32:48>> Therefore, and that there's a lot of other things CIA has done very wrong, but that's a long conversation. But if we're just looking at this issue, does that mean that you should therefore the next day bulldoze CIA and bulldoze the Pentagon and not have them there?
33:03>> No.
33:04>> Exactly. This is my point and you're making the same point as me. We are in agreement. I want to go room by room and find the people who actually are guilty.
33:11>> But my my point just because I also I'm not a big I I think I think Tucker is I don't trust him in many areas. I I I think that first of all, he himself, I mean, talk about a bi- he loves to analyze people and their incentives and their like sketchy background. I mean, talk about him. Like he a frozen food heir whose dad ran the biggest propaganda foundation got him his start in media.
33:37Obje- uh worked with the CIA for decades. Um Voice of America Yeah, his dad I mean, and like he remained very close with them. He goes up the ultra-establishment route, calls out people who are pseudo-populist and dressed like populist even though they're of the elites. He's kind of done that reinvention. Some people say it's an authentic conversion. You can sort of read the man for yourself and his biography for yourself and see when he made the pivot. It was after Fox News and getting fired and all that. And there are a lot of things about his biography where I just do not trust him.
34:08I do not trust him.
34:09Uh and I I think he's bad faith in many ways. Doesn't mean everything he says is wrong. I think I think like a lot of people he may he may cover things very well. He's a smart guy. He's a very smart guy. He's a good writer, all that.
34:20Um But when he talks about this super government, I'm like I I I then start to read American history through that lens. And on the one on the one hand it's unfalsifiable.
34:29Like if that's your worldview, you can probably justify every event through that lens. You can say, "Well, they they planned it this way and yeah, they wanted you to think it wasn't really one of the but I'm still like really, you would have picked Trump of all the leaders like uh to come out to Now, you make the really good point of the world has changed. So, that that to me is an interesting theory where like this this entity may have had more authority 20 years ago or 60 years ago. I'm of the belief that the CIA used to be um a lot more treacherous in the like '60s and '50s. I think they were a lot more emboldened
35:07and it's it's harder to pull some of these things off these days.
35:11I guess all my all my my entire point there is like Frost as Frost said like Obama, I mean Katherine Rumler, you know, the the top lawyer in the White House, she was a >> Obama's implication.
35:21>> Exactly, doesn't mean he >> That's right.
35:23>> Surprisingly, Biden pretty clear. I mean, you know, like Hunter, all that crack and no Pepsi. But uh he you know, like he had like in Bush pretty the Bushes pretty safe. Um so you have a lot of people and I know people will say, "Well, some in their orbit were caught." But still, the the meat of the operation wasn't. So, I'm like I still think there's a there's a group like this Larry Summers, Bill Gates across Harvard, Davos. Like I do think there's something there. I am not saying there's not and again, we've covered this story since the beginning of ROCA um aggressively. You can look at everything from our memes to the the
36:01number of of times we've covered it as a deep dive, all this. I think my point in that is there's a ton to this story. I just I'm still like I I still feel like it's it might be um I I just haven't personally pieced it together. And I'm I'm stuttering over my words just because I I want to like have some theories and every time I think it's it, I I just feel like you have to have a really good case before you you launch it and I'm still like struck in that stuck in that spot of like piecing it all together.
36:32>> When when I when I had John in here the other day, >> [snorts] >> the third hour of that podcast that was 388, it's essentially me and you know, John's looked at this case for a long time and there's new information stuff.
36:43He's looked at some of it. But it's just the third hour really shook me afterwards because much of it is essentially me narrating emails and looking to John whose head was just turned to the screen like this with his hand like this. And John Kiriakou, the man who I mean, he never runs out of things to say. The first two times I ever had him here, they were both two podcasts a piece. He was sitting there for 6 hours and I had to like stop him. You know, he was speechless. He was He was genuinely speechless like I knew this was bad. I have talked about how bad this is for a long time. I've talked about how much
37:19deeper this may go than we think for a long time.
37:21This is worse than even I imagined.
37:24Yeah. And you are absolutely right. This this and and it's not a popular thing to say and I don't care. I won't just say the popular thing to say. Burning everything down at once is not the answer because there are plenty of also people who might like if you want to use the sake of argument, who might be really bad people.
37:40>> Right.
37:40>> Dick Cheney was a really bad guy.
37:42Dick Cheney is not in these files. Right now, he's also dead now. But think of the people who are alive, right? Like that's where you have to say even the people I don't like, if there's not a there there, then don't create one because that's where they win. That's where the people who pull the strings win. They want you to believe everything without evidence so that they can discredit you. And that's why like I get really firm on the stuff that very clearly does have evidence.
38:10>> The Was it Can Can you find the email, the one you're talking about with the kids on that guy? Or is that this one?
38:15>> The The By the way, as just as we look for that, the tech The number of tech people in the email surprised me. If you want to talk about like >> By the way, it is that I I was frantic earlier reading this. It is that let me read this again, Max. It is that bottom email right there. I want to read this slowly.
38:30>> Okay, yeah, yeah.
38:30>> Cuz I read this too fast, but this is damning. It's from December 28, 2018. A friend of my a friend of a friend Skype me because they wanted some advice. She said she was working on a sex trafficking movie. She said she met this really beautiful girl that used to be a sex slave for a guy with a private island. She met this pilot/girl at Burning Man. I asked her if she had ever met Epstein. She said she hadn't and I said, "Yes, you have." She almost fainted.
38:56>> So, it sounds like Epstein's sending this to a to a woman to another I believe he was trafficking >> believe I'd seen somewhere he was talking about he was talking to Masha Dragojevic.
39:07>> Who's that?
39:09>> She was like I I don't really know what to call her. So, actually huge shout out to Shawn Ryan and their team because this was a [ __ ] unbelievable call.
39:21He recorded a podcast with Masha Dragojevic, who's like this Russian uh dissenter Putin who's involved in a lot of [ __ ] I actually have to look more into her to be perfectly honest.
39:33[snorts] But, he records this podcast with her maybe a year ago.
39:37Eight, nine months, something like that.
39:39And you know, Shawn just had a gut.
39:43Something's off. Something's wrong here.
39:46Never tells anyone, never puts it out.
39:49She comes out in the emails as not only being tight cuz then he asked her on camera about Epstein. Cuz he after the emails, he put it out for people so they could see it. Where she denies really knowing Epstein much at all. She talked with him a couple times, but whatever.
40:04She was one of his main [ __ ] people.
40:06She's one of the most cited people in the emails. She's talking with him about racial supremacy and getting DNA tests and then only having parties with people who match a 98% uh in this case Jewish blood or more so they can procreate together cuz they're smarter than everyone. And she was extremely extremely tight with this guy and Shawn had an inkling that something was off and he never ran the episode and that is a god-tier level [ __ ] gut feel so shout out Shawn.
40:34>> Do you so but sorry. Julian, do you think all these people like I'm just asking just I'm not at this is not a leading question just out of curiosity.
40:42Do you think all the people who he corresponds with were involved with the sex trafficking?
40:46>> Absolutely not and that's not people want to believe that. The problem is I'll give you a personal example.
40:53Lawrence Krauss is sitting in that chair.
40:55>> Yeah.
40:57>> Lawrence Krauss and I asked him about it when he was here. I got connected to him through another guest on the show, brought him in here and like when he was coming in I'm like we we already knew at the time he was friends with Epstein but Epstein funded [ __ ] everyone in the Edge Foundation.
41:10I'm like whatever. So I asked him about it and he would he answered it. He was he was kind of it was quick on podcast.
41:15He was like kind of flipping about it.
41:17But he was like he he came in and funded stuff. We take money from people that that fund stuff. He was like very direct about it. And we got along well.
41:257,500 emails.
41:27>> Wow.
41:27>> Trying to get Jeffrey Epstein on the Joe Rogan experience after after he went on himself in 2017. Like the chances of him not knowing something are low. Does that mean he's guilty?
41:42No.
41:42>> 7,500 emails.
41:44>> a lot.
41:45>> Okay.
41:45>> That's a lot.
41:46>> Like Kathy [snorts] Griffin had 1,100 I had 11,500.
41:50>> I do what was she doing all day?
41:51>> But your your question is exactly what you should be asking journalistically.
41:55The thing is when you're so caught up with this guy many times post conviction, yeah, you have to be like it's just the burden of proof is on you to prove that you didn't know.
42:07>> I I I I but yes, maybe in a social setting but in a criminal setting, that's why like the the proof to me have like a laundry list of stuff to look into. I still think his tech ties are crazy, especially in later stage Epstein. Like, the number of people one area like if you look at presidents, who's actually like you know, I mean Trump and Clinton, but again, Obama, Biden, Bush, pretty clean. Um but if you look if you look at the the wealth list, it's pretty surprising. It's pretty surprising how many of like the tech people are implicated or or at least involved. So, to me like Les Wexner is on my line of like the people who
42:47need a closer inspection. Steve Bannon, oh my goodness. I mean, that interview >> Well, I was just say what's your guy I haven't watched it. What what's your guys take on the Steve Bannon relationship?
42:56>> he's rehabbing Epstein and trying to get him through the system. Now, what to what what, you know, Steve Bannon also seems to have like this weird streak of wanting to be a villain, so maybe this was I think the most ironically the most generous reading is he wanted to be like an edge lord with it.
43:12I think though that the degree to which I saw an interesting read that the Epstein belong intelligence line because that was an Alex Acosta on a mic that was a senior White House aide saying Acosta said it and that they now think that maybe Bannon originated that.
43:27Um and that basically he deserves a closer inspection. I mean, if you're his PR PR guy down the stretch, that's pretty wild.
43:36>> his Bannon's standing with with his audience?
43:39>> I would think so. It should have. I mean, he talks about the global elite all day and he's working like how advising that is insane to think about.
43:48I think Leon Black. Um I think I still >> Leon Black's? You just want to talk about optics, Leon Black's and and by the way, sons are not guilty of what their father is, but from an optics perspective >> Yeah.
43:59>> these allegations have been out against Leon Black forever and his son works in the administration. It's like a It's like, dude.
44:07>> Yeah. The the William Barr dad building >> Yeah, by the way, who's in charge of the transition team of the administration?
44:14Howard Lutnick.
44:16>> He Lutnick?
44:17Lutnick to me, I think we have like overthought some of this, too, where like that was a big lie, he should get fired. You're fired. I think some presidents, say what you want about like Obama and Bush, they would move people out of there if there was like a scandal. And I know people are like they were so deep state. They I mean, Eric Holder, I guess is an exception for >> Obama. But no, no, I'm saying Trump >> Acosta? Acosta >> true. That's true. That's true. That's true. That's true. But >> Acosta only lasted 10 days.
44:44>> [laughter] >> Well, Trump term one fired everybody, but >> But yeah, this term he's like what what does Kash Patel have to do to lose his job?
44:53>> That's what I'm That's my question. I agree with you.
44:55>> I think the weakness point is one reason he doesn't want to be perceived as weak.
44:59I'm saying he should be moving them out. Like >> So, why is he not >> Why Pam Bondi? I think it's probably either the weakness point or he doesn't want them to rat on what they know, and maybe they know more than he'd like us to believe. Like if Bondi hit the podcast circuit, who knows what she's seen that they don't want out there. Who knows what tell-all book she could put together about what Trump said about releasing the files and calling the American people I'm sure like Trump was like, "These [ __ ] idiots won't drop this story. Guess what? I was friends with them. Everybody was friends with"
45:32Who knows what quotes he has? I'm making these up, obviously. I bet you Pam Bondi could write a pretty explosive tell-all.
45:38I think that's another reading. Um I'm sure the audience will have some more uh theories, but I I don't know, but I I think that like there should be some basic accountability.
45:50Elon Musk on this I I'm not looking past that, either, by the way.
45:54I don't think he's I don't think he's like criminal, per se, but like to want the epic parties girls for the win and to consistently insist and then get rejected from the pedo party. Not that not that it was a pedo party. I do I do Yeah, we're in a different position. Like I don't want to say things that aren't true, but he going to the island is like it it's it's like that college party where like whatever house it is, whether it's the wildest frat or like my college didn't have frats, but there was always a house where like you didn't know what was going on there, but you knew the hardest drugs were happening.
46:27You knew the girls that ran around there was a little weird and whatever.
46:31Like when you walk into that house, you kind of know what you're signing up for.
46:35You don't know exactly what's going on.
46:36I think a lot of people knew vaguely what Epstein was known for. Like Trump in the early 2000s saying that younger women even younger than I like them. You know that line like the in the New Yorker profile. Yeah, I guess I guess a lot of people knew what he was about and he still ran in his circles.
46:53>> Not to So what we when we we last weekend in our app every every weekend we do we do five deep dive stories in the weekend.
47:01Three of them last week were about Epstein. And the I was looking at the feedback from our from our readers and it's very very I'd say like 70% want more of the content.
47:11Um they're I mean they're hor- they're just horrified by everything. They think it's the story of the year and all you know, story of the century and all this kind of stuff. And then the other 30% are essentially in the it's a cover-up. It's a distraction.
47:24>> Red herring.
47:24>> Red herring thing. And I do say I mean the point that you made before, I do So again, I like I really I'm I'm not at all um I just don't know what to make of it, right? I want to learn more about it. I want to I want to keep real I want to keep attaining information just figuring out where it is. I mean I don't think obviously nothing should be off limits and we should be pursuing the truth in every single aspect.
47:45I do worry about Do I think this AI stuff, man, it is [ __ ] terrifying.
47:51It's terrifying. And it's happening.
47:52Just in the period since like say July when this Epstein stuff really started popping off, dude, like Mhm. the AI stuff has it's become everywhere. I mean, it's starting to shape everything.
48:05And this is what everyone's talking about. So, I do I think two things can be true. I mean, there there can be smoke and fire. And it can also be that this is all everyone's talking about.
48:15Dude, I like I mean, I'll just say my own this is my own opinion. I'm terrified terrified about the AI stuff.
48:20I think the economic ramifications of it are massive. I think the social the control for the government everything. I think we're looking at a potentially most destabilizing period ever for for the US. I mean, like maybe since the Great Depression, but in modern modern times. And instead, people don't even people don't talk about it. And it's it's just to to me it's like and I know a lot of people think if you put it up on YouTube, it's going to get censored and everything, which I definitely I mean, the certainly one video we did I did not do well.
48:44>> So So, you put AI in the title?
48:46>> Yeah.
48:47>> It's done. Dude, it's [ __ ] done.
48:49Here's why I'm kind of of that opinion of Well, well, two opinions. As we just said, we did a little 600% or we bat 600 on Epstein stories last weekend. Like we're going to keep covering this. You you have to walk and chew gum in our business, especially when Trump's president. There are 15 million stories going on at once.
49:08I think that I I'm And so, these stories shouldn't be competing. They're separate.
49:13>> Mhm.
49:14>> I do get skeptical about why Ro Khanna, I mean, why weren't they clamoring about this in a by >> Oh, listen. I don't give Ro Khanna, Thomas Massie, and and Nancy Mace I will admit because of how hard they're going in on this.
49:29They they are a separate entity for me. That is a separate thing.
49:34>> but don't you think they may have their own motives? Like I don't doubt that like Nancy Mace, I look at her record and how little I trust her and how like full of [ __ ] she seems in the reports from staff >> the Tommy G documentary about Epstein four or five months ago.
49:47>> It's worth watching.
49:48>> Yes.
49:49>> Yeah.
49:49>> Because you You tell she's still trying to tow she tried really hard to tow the Trump line then look no farther than Marjorie Taylor Greene who talked about This is a woman who when they were forced to wear masks at Congress wore a [ __ ] Trump mask on her mouth. She was the biggest mega person ever and she talks about that conversation with Trump where she's like I'm trying to help you guys. I believe you. I don't think you're guilty. Get out in front of this and he's like you don't understand. I have friends who are going to get hurt.
50:17You have pedo friends who are going to get hurt? You're covering up Lex Weck- like you like calling Lex Wexner a friend which we now know that's one of people he's referring to in the year of our Lord at the time 2025 is [ __ ] insane, bro.
50:31>> Marjorie Taylor Greene allegedly did the pivot after she didn't get the Trump endorsement for Georgia Senate.
50:36>> didn't she get it?
50:37>> But I don't necessarily but because she's politically unpopular. Like I'm not a Marjorie Taylor >> I know I know I know but my point is my point is I'm I I think that those three are I think have a grandstanding track record. I don't >> I don't think Thomas Massie has that. I I and Roh Khan is a guy I actually like when the Ukraine war broke out with like I felt like actually looked at it somewhat diplomatically at the time. I don't know his voting record on all of the [ __ ] funding of Ukraine but >> the insider trading bill and then it turns out he has traded I think the second most of any sitting congressman
51:16and it's like Thomas Massie there's always been history of a libertarian who loves the spotlight. Doesn't mean everything he does is wrong? No, not at all. But it does mean like I do wonder when people are so vociferous about this and you know, I I just do wonder why they're doing that. I think if you're going to examine motives, you got to look at everybody's motive. You do.
51:36>> Nancy Mace has like the most insane track record for her ex-staffers and I don't take that lightly. My point on all this is that I I I think that like AI is like in the last week, let me put it this way. There've been some disturbing Epstein revelations. There's also been Sam Altman talking about humans guzzling up more resources than AI when it comes to acquiring new knowledge and that comes on the heels of him saying in 2015, he thinks that AI will end humanity but a lot of great companies will be created in the process. That's the CEO of Anthropic, Dario, who also himself has this weird track record of
52:12talking about AI destroying humanity. I mean and we're like I think that that to me is more top of mind personally. I think both are massive stories and I do wonder about those pushing this aggressively.
52:25>> Everything is a distraction for everything, bro.
52:28The war in the potential war in Iran here is a distraction for Epstein which is a distraction for AI which is a distraction for some other [ __ ] government take over. Everything is a giant circle and a distraction and I agree with you. You have to look at everything and the soup du jour is whatever the moment is and some people know more about other things than some other things but like >> Yeah.
52:49>> I'm not going to let this go.
52:51>> No, fair, fair, fair, fair, fair.
52:54>> Like it is so black and white at this point and again, there's some stuff that is not at the worst end of the spectrum that I'm rooting to not be true by the way. As much as I hate Epstein, I I'm not rooting for it to turn out to be like, yep, there was cannibalism. I'm not rooting for that. But like the fact that I can't rule that out reading this stuff should shake people to their core.
53:18>> Yeah.
53:19>> And it's just God, I'm just I I I this this one is really this really really [ __ ] >> Yeah.
53:30>> Yeah, I mean, look.
53:32I I don't I don't know what Donald Trump's the full extent of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. I've defended him in the past as it pertains to Jeffrey Epstein and things that he did out in front talking to Brad Edwards, the victim's attorney in [ __ ] 2007 and going on the record being the only guy who would do it. Talking about him offhanded during the 2015-2016 campaign about that he got problems at that island. Now he's coming out there going, "I like Bill Clinton." Why?
53:58>> Yeah.
53:58>> Why?
53:59>> Yeah.
54:00>> That is why. You guys are journalists, why? You guys are actually real journalists.
54:04>> Yeah.
54:05>> Like that if you are not asking why is Donald Trump suddenly saying that about a guy who he stared in the face during a [ __ ] presidential debate and said he raped people.
54:14Why is he now like, "Ah, I still like Bill Clinton."
54:17Right when Bill is going to go talk.
54:20Like I mean, there ain't a defense attorney in America who will who won't tell you off the record that not to say he's guilty, but that the behavior doesn't look guilty.
54:32>> Yeah.
54:33I mean, Trump is not someone a client if I were defense attorney, I would not want him as my client personally. You know what you pay is you cuz cuz a lot of what he does is inexplicable. I don't view his moral uh track record as favorable even before all this. So like I'm not I'm not a Trump defender by any means, but yes.
54:53>> No, I I mean, Trump has the power to free to release all the files.
54:58Comes out of him. It's not Pam Bondi, it's him, right? So [clears throat] so it's it's just it's clear, but like That's that's it. I mean, so so what's it what's going to take to get him to do something? Nothing.
55:07>> Well, all and also every administration before this since Clinton has covered this up. They deserve absolutely no credit for this. I don't give any political credit to people right now. I told you those three are kind of a separate category. Everyone else can [ __ ] off. They get no credit. They covered this up forever.
55:21>> Yeah.
55:22>> Yeah.
55:22>> They they I I think a lot of people they love the game of noble lies. We saw this during COVID where they'd rather hide the truth from the public so as to not make them look bad or their institutions look bad. And I think that you know, a lot of people like trust in government's low, trust in Congress is at a historical low, which it is. And then they're like, so you know we can't do we can't show that we've been hiding this for a while.
55:46And so yeah, I think there's been this they are way too comfortable with noble lies in the government. Like let's hide this from the people. Um I mean I do think there are state secrets. Like I think it's dumb to just I think some people are like open source the government and you can't do that. But there are issues where they don't trust the public and that feeds the public's distrust. And so that is outrageous. I think that's why a lot of people, we see it around the country in rural white communities and they're just like I I just don't trust the authorities. I you know, and that's a big freaking problem
56:22right now.
56:23>> Yep. You just there have there's certain things that need transparency and a light shined on them, especially when it's done.
56:30>> Yeah.
56:30>> Right?
56:31>> Right.
56:31>> And this this this stuff has happened.
56:33We cannot change that it happened, but we can try to prevent it in the future and we can try to prevent the environment that allowed this to happen and anyone who's involved should should be called out on that, you know.
56:44>> Yeah.
56:45>> If I can't help but thinking if if if [ __ ] China were involved with this, these these documents would have been released [ __ ] 6 years ago.
56:54>> Yeah.
56:55>> But they're not.
56:56>> Yeah.
56:57>> I mean the thing that the thing that honestly scares me I think we talked about this last time, but it's like okay, well if this is happening then like all these people are talking about 2010s 2000s 2010s, right?
57:07Well, since then it's like obviously it's not like this kind of stuff stopped. So it's like then and then I can't remember if it was you who said it when you were here last time or someone else I was talking to, but the person made the point they're like, well you don't really need a Jeffrey Epstein now because everything is recorded on your phone. And literally everything.
57:22>> Yeah.
57:22>> So it's like it's like it's like it's like there's not nothing's private. If if you're doing something illegal, if you're doing something, you know, that's going to put the scarlet letter on you, somebody He >> Somebody knows. it.
57:31>> it's just it's It's disturbing, bro. I mean, all this all this stuff is extremely disturbing. But like Again, dude, the combination of this stuff, the tech stuff Ev- I mean, it's dude, it's a It's a dark time. It's It's definitely a >> What gives me hope are people. I think traveling the country, you see great people everywhere. I think of my loved ones.
57:52And like all the There is like a lot of human decency and so much value to life beyond, you know, your view of your >> government and politics and culture war and all this stuff. So like I do kind of rest on that. I think this is a great reminder of not placing too much faith in government.
58:08>> I agree.
58:08>> And uh and and instead recognizing the, you know, deeper truths of life and the more valuable things.
58:16Um and I You know, on AI and uh I still remain hopeful. I really do.
58:23I think that, you know, we don't see the unseen sectors that'll be created and we don't We may underestimate the resilience of our species. Like I saw yesterday that it was the 20th anniversary that iPod Mini coming out.
58:38And I'm like, dude, that was only 20 years ago. Think about the life today.
58:42And I'm like, and we're okay. I mean, you know, more or less okay.
58:45>> Yeah.
58:46>> Um and Yeah, so I guess I guess I get some hope from that. But yeah, dude, insane time.
58:54I mean >> Insane say it's like it's a good time to be in the news business.
58:57>> It is.
58:57>> We didn't even get to talk about El Mencho.
59:00>> We did not. I'm going to be having a podcast coming out right after this with Katarina Schulz. She's coming back into town.
59:07And let's just say she was uh she's on this story.
59:10>> That's right.
59:11>> She's covering it inside. But yeah, there's there's so much going on. It's like you can't even decide. I appreciate you guys being good sports about this. I get worked up about this.
59:19>> Well, dude, I I just I mean, I I should be more informed on it. Like I said, I got back Sunday and I was like I started reading >> Well, yeah.
59:25>> Yeah.
59:25>> But I mean, it was just not honestly, it's like I was gone. And just like being in the mountains in Lebanon or like >> Yeah, shit's going down.
59:31>> Yeah, one of the things the Epstein survivor talked about when she was in here was she came from the modeling world and she was she was talking about how obvious it was.
59:40>> Really?
59:40>> Like the whole and it's not just Epstein at all. Like like like she's like obviously like he's the worst guy I knew, but they just traffic you everywhere.
59:48You know? And then she she just got out of the modeling business. She was a modeling scout for 15 years after she was a model.
59:55>> Wow.
59:55>> You know? And and she's like, "Listen, there's aspects of the industry that I enjoyed that that are great, but then there's like this underbelly dark side that's just totally wrong."
60:04>> Yeah.
60:05>> You know? And when you see that and and what, you know, she was trafficked to him all kinds of times. And she was one that was of age.
60:13>> Wow.
60:13>> But, you know, she would she talked about the one time that she saw like a 13-year-old girl in the car when she got in there. She talked about when she was on the island. There were girls who were underage there with Prince Andrew.
60:23>> Jeez.
60:24>> You know? Like So, you're just inviting the prince for the views?
60:29>> Yeah. Yeah.
60:30>> It's it it It It just is what it is, man. But, to your point, you got to go piece by piece and real you know, if you want to shun everyone who's in the files because they shouldn't have been associated with them, that's fine. When it comes to the criminal prosecutions, which I want to see, which apparently they're not going to do, but I want to see them and push for them, you have to get evidence on it. And you have to get direct evidence on on the people involved. And we have evidence obviously on the people that were running it, but we got to find the evidence on the people on the powerful
60:56people who were clearly, you know, it's like running a RICO case with the mob.
61:00>> Yeah.
61:00>> That's effectively what this is. Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.
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