0:01So, I'm open-minded.
0:05>> Same.
0:05>> On, you know, finding new evidence of things, whether it be in history or things in recent history, and stuff that's happened that has some ends up having some sort of proven explanation that says this is not human, whatever that may mean.
0:19You know, it also the definition of alien gets interesting because I always cite this example, and it's just my own, it's not defined, but you know, when you watch the movie Interstellar, >> Yeah.
0:31>> Matthew McConaughey leaves Earth one day, he comes back aged like a year or two, and he comes back to an Earth that has moved whatever it was, 85, 90 years.
0:41>> Right.
0:41>> To me, he is someone from a different time coming back to a place that is different than he left it by literal longevity of him leaving it, therefore he is an alien, right? So, it's like, you also got to get to like, well, what is an alien, or is there such thing as future humans? Have they Have people figured out how to do time travel and all that? I don't know. But, what I do know is a couple things. Mathematically, when you look at the probabilities of the universe, and a really nice conversation with David Kipping about this, who's [ __ ] awesome.
1:13And he'll be back, for sure. He was did I did 258 with or 358 with him, and he was great. But, you know, when you think about just how vast a galaxy is, and how much of it we still don't know about, the idea that there isn't mathematically probable that there is other intelligent life out there, to me, >> is almost at a zero. Right? Like, does that mean it's all over the place?
1:35>> And does that [clears throat] mean they're visiting Earth?
1:37>> Exactly. It It doesn't mean that it's all over the place, because the number of things that have to go right for a habitable world to produce intelligent life is, I mean, it's extensive, right?
1:47We're We're a rarity, we're not common.
1:50But, when you don't even know how big the galaxy is, it It could be anywhere. And to your point, exactly, like, you don't know if they have come here. What I will say is that I'm sure people could notice I have covered that stuff a lot less over the past year plus. You know, I had in my friend Chris Ramsey who's like a historian of all the different stories that come together. That was a lot of fun. But outside of that, I have not talked about aliens with people that aren't [ __ ] physicists where it's a scientific explanation because so much of the noise that has been injected into this space, whether it be
2:29people that I've had on who worked in the [ __ ] government, which you know that risk when you take it when you bring that on, or the people that they bring forth as witnesses is just so off. And you know, I did one with a good friend of mine James Fox who brought Jason Sands in here. And the story you know, Jason has a has a to to his credit has as a former military member and and all that, like he has some severe PTSD. His story is is wrong. It's not real. Like I hate to break it to people and it was extremely obvious to me when he was here that it's not real. And I believe that he believes it,
3:05but that's not what happened. And it's very clear. And so when I see the people that push that guy hard, yeah, hard onto James Fox, and I know who they are. And then I think about all the other stories and people that they've pushed. And guys like Chris Bledsoe who I do not believe is telling the truth at all. Right? Oh my god, the iron lady is going to come down or whatever. By the way, the Oh yeah, it's April now. It's going to be October conveniently. And his son's creating a podcast on it. I see stuff like this and I go, "Woo."
3:35Too much [ __ ] So when I have these conversations, I try to look at it with whatever [ __ ] facts we can find or whatever scientific mathematical probabilities could exist. And I try to keep it to like you know, some sort of an educated conversation. Does that make sense?
3:53>> Yeah, totally.
3:55And for the record, I'm not in the UFO niche at all.
3:59>> Right. Let's >> But, it's uh it's it's interesting to me. And um apparently, you know, a lot of these whistleblowers are saying, "Yeah, a lot of them are ours, but there is a certain percentage that aren't." Like that are from somewhere else. But, I'm also there's probably political reasons to get everybody worried and scared about aliens. And so, I I worry about that, too. And that's one of the reasons I did the I ended up feeling compelled to do what I did with the Nazca mummies once I came to the I don't know if you want to get into that now.
4:31>> We're Let's do it. We we've been we've been teasing it. We were teasing it in the last episode. We just had a great conversation on on all this other stuff, which is just all fascinating. Your your channel's great, man. But, the Nazca mummy thing, I do want to disclose my own personal history with this.
4:48>> Yeah, please do.
4:49>> approached about 2 years ago, almost exactly 2 years ago, by I forget the [ __ ] guy's name, but someone representing Jaime. What's his last uh >> Maus- Mausson.
5:01>> Yeah, Jaime Mausson.
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5:38>> Who's like the dude who's been pushing this?
5:40>> Yep.
5:41>> And >> but yeah.
5:42>> Yeah. And and I don't I don't have a problem saying this, but I got on a Zoom call with Jaime Maussan.
5:50And my [ __ ] meter was beeping at a [ __ ] 45 on a scale of 1 to 10.
5:57I respectfully I can't remember talking to someone that within 10 seconds I was more sure was completely full of [ __ ] in a long, long time. And so I listen, this is what I mean. You got to have integrity with this stuff. I could have done a [ __ ] He wanted to call He was like, "So when are we doing this?" He wanted to come on the podcast. I could have done [ __ ] 1.5 million views on that podcast, we cut it up on all the clips, made [ __ ] all kinds of money on it. I was like, "Absolutely not. We're never [ __ ] doing this." I never talked to him again. And it made me think that because he's pushing it, the whole story's
6:32[ __ ] So I have to admit I had immediate bias on that like this is complete [ __ ] >> Yeah.
6:37>> Fast forward, my friend Jesse Michaels who you now know as well who who also reached out to you, which is great, to discuss this.
6:44>> Yep.
6:44>> And does a whole documentary on it, and I'm like, "Oh boy."
6:48I get on the phone with Jesse. I talk to him about I'm like, "What do you think?"
6:51And And to his credit, he was not like, "It definitely happened." He was like, "You know, I kind of want the audience to decide, but >> Yeah, his >> his video is nuanced.
6:58>> He did talk to Jaime in there, and I told him very strongly in New Jersey terms on the phone what I thought of [ __ ] Jaime.
7:06But there were other people he talked to as well who I couldn't speak on cuz I wasn't familiar with them, and frankly, when it came to the rest of the case outside of me like having a very clear lie detector test on Jaime, I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm educated or whatever. But you have literally gone to the press conferences on this. You've talked to all the people including a lot of people that I'm unfamiliar with or maybe don't even remember that maybe were in Jesse's documentary. And in your opinion, you believe that this whole thing is not real. So >> The hoax.
7:40>> Right, a hoax. So let's I want you to go into as much detail as possible. I want you to break it down.
7:47Let's start at the beginning for people that don't know what the Nazca mummies are, can you just give an explanation of what they are and when they originated as a discussion?
7:57>> Yes. In 2017, there was a mummy that was presented to the public named Maria.
8:04That is what they call a tridactyl being, meaning they have three fingers and three toes.
8:10>> Can we pull that up, this Maria?
8:11>> Yeah, Maria.
8:13And and so, Gaia is a big Gaia, the media company, is the big one that released some of the early documentaries on this. But, the story is that this was found by a huaquero, which is a grave robber out there. And to be fair, that is who would find an amazing discovery, right? Like, they have no This is not Maria, but that's one of the newer ones. But, if you put in Maria sp- >> specifically with the Nazca mummies.
8:42>> And so, the there's you know, the there's an institution called the Incan Institute that was early in on this. Yep, that one with the red background there. That's Maria. And you can see the three fingers there.
8:54>> [snorts] >> And immediately, they start pushing this as a new species and some type of alien being. They do, you know, they bring out these specialists from Russia who can never kind of figure out what their actual academic background is.
9:10But, also immediately, professionals down in Peru throughout all the noise are saying, "Hey, these are fake. There's a lot of There's a lot of things that are screwed up here with the anatomy." And we're going to talk about the anatomy here in just a moment.
9:23>> Who were the just for context, who were these professionals?
9:26>> So, the guy named Dr. Gis- Gismundi is one of them. Flavio Estrada, who was the head of the Ministry of Culture. And then several um, other people that I'm losing their name, but Flavio Estrada is like a forensic archaeologist, anthropologist, and then, uh, Gizmondi is an anthropologist as well.
9:51And so, their debunks got drowned out immediately. And as if you go to my YouTube channel right now, you'll see my debunks >> [laughter] >> are like my least performing videos of the last year. It's not exactly very popular to say that, uh, the alien mummies aren't alien mummies.
10:08Um, I think probably cuz some people just think that it's obvious, and then the others that want to believe. You know, anyways, fast forward to 2023.
10:19So, these things got debunked a bunch of times over the year, but then in 2023, September, if you remember right, the Mexican Congress debacle happens where Jaime Maussan shows the Mexican Congress these little mummies, these little three-fingered mummies that are probably about 3 ft tall.
10:36And it goes viral.
10:38It goes absolutely wild. They're talking about it on Colbert Report. They're talking Neil deGrasse Tyson weighs weighs in. And immediately they're all, um, dismissed by most people, but these proponents are really hitting it hard.
10:52Well, then in December of 2023 {slash} January 2024, they find some of these dolls trying to be smuggled through the Lima Airport, and they go and do scans, and they go, "Okay, these are animal bones. Case dismissed. These are closed." And this is where I got >> trying to smuggle them?
11:09>> Uh, there was a person that was from Palpa, the area uh, where a lot of these are coming from, that claimed that he was just making art uh, souvenirs to sell in Mexico.
11:20And so, it all gets dismissed as a hoax, and this is where I actually got inve- interested because to me that wasn't good enough. I knew about Maria. And I knew Maria was not animal bones. They Whenever the debunkers were doing this at the beginning, not all of them, but the ones that were in the media, they were saying that these were all a mix of animal bones.
11:40But Maria was different. Maria's clearly some type of human.
11:46Right? That's three fingers and three toes.
11:49Uh spoiler alert, Maria is just a normal Homo Sapien that's been butchered and Frankenstein, but we'll talk about that in a moment.
11:56So, I go down there with an iPhone and a drone, and I start getting uh in contact of the proponents, and I am making uh and I'm interviewing them, and I make this documentary called Show Me the Mummies.
12:09Uh because as much as I tried, they would not show me the mummies. At the time, it was kind of sensitive to go uh find them. And in that documentary, I'm kind of playing that I'm sitting on the fence. I'm telling you the timeline of the stories. I'm telling you the proponent's side of the story, and I'm telling you a little bit of the uh naysayer's side of the story as well.
12:26>> [gasps] >> And then about a year later, I get an opportunity to go actually see Maria for myself. This is in April of 2025.
12:36Uh sorry, let me back up. I was also at the infamous press conference, and was like really one of the only English reporters there.
12:43>> The one in Mexico?
12:44>> The one in Lima that got raided by the Ministry of Culture during uh they >> What happened there? What was that?
12:51>> It's on It's actually on my YouTube, but uh they were announcing that they were there were larger mummies that were about to be presented to the public.
12:59And during that announcement, and this is also when they announced that there were going to be American scientists that were looking into all of this.
13:06And during that announcement, the Ministry of Culture came in, took over the press conference thinking that there were bodies there that they were going to confiscate. Yeah, this is it right here.
13:16It's If you kind of fast forward, you'll see the drama.
13:19Um back up a little bit. Back up. Back up like to like 1/3 the way through.
13:25>> That's Jaime talking?
13:26>> Yeah, Jaime and all that.
13:28>> Keep talking. I'm trying to find >> And so and so this place gets it made national news the the raid.
13:36Go back to like the beginning beginning.
13:39You'll see some some of it.
13:42Maybe like 3 minutes in and and so I fast forward a year later. I get a chance to actually go see Maria for myself and around this time I'm also viewing the skeptic side of the argument a lot more serious.
13:58And when I see Maria for the first time in person and if you go to my you don't have to go now, but when you get a chance if you go to my PDF Here's the raid by the way.
14:09It was just absolute chaos in there.
14:12I have a image in my PDF one of the first photos that shows Maria in 2017 versus Maria now.
14:21And my alarm bells just start screaming right here. You can see this diatomaceous earth that she's covered in or plastered in in my opinion is starting to completely erode away.
14:34And if you zoom in Joey on that chin of the 2025 image like zoom in really close to the chin.
14:41Go to the right. Yep.
14:44There appears to be like fiberglass tape right there. Something is Maria is starting to reveal herself.
14:51So I start getting really skeptical and there's a guy named Dr. Dan and and I was already skeptical.
14:57But there's a guy named Dr. Dan Proctor a bio anthropologist that specializes in the hands and the feet and he had been for like 2 years trying to get a hold of a lot of people that were studying this.
15:08And he believes that there is clear evidence that Maria and if you go to slide three here has had her um hands and feet amputated.
15:22And one of the things that convinced me, and I I am not an expert in anatomy, but you can see it for yourself right here. You see where it says trapezium distal articular surface?
15:32>> Mhm.
15:32>> That appears to be what that is. That's where the thumb bone or the metacarpal one of the thumb bone should be attached to. And if something evolved with three fingers, there should be no reason that that trapezium distal surf articular surface, which looks exactly like ours, there should be no reason that >> And then for good measure, if you go to the next slide and four, that metacarpal one that's missing from there appears to be, and this by metacarpal one I mean the thumb bone, they appear to have put it in the second phalange.
16:05Um yep, go back go to four right there.
16:09They appear to have put it in the second phalange right there.
16:12Um and so they're Frankensteining these things.
16:16Um and so in December, I I guess in August or July I'd seen a picture of these giant heads with that were clearly fake.
16:27And I can send you some pictures of those later. And this was with the whistleblower Wachero, um the guy that supposedly found Maria.
16:33He's posing with these fake giant heads.
16:36And I just knew that that image, once it went public, cuz I was told I couldn't release it because somebody had the exclusive rights to it, I basically told him, I was like, "Tell them they got 4 months because like people need to know about this."
16:50And once it came out, um all hell broke loose. People started calling these a hoax again.
16:58And that's when me, myself, Dr. Proctor, Dr. Joseph Wilson, an archaeologist at the University of uh Massachusetts Amherst, and then a radiographer uh that I met on Twitter, um named Shelley, got really involved when we made that video.
17:15And then fast forward real quick, uh I've recently interviewed Dr. William Morrison, who's the um former president of the Society of Skeletal Radiology.
17:27Probably about one of the best people you could talk to about this. And he got the raw We gave him the raw DICOM scans of four of the big mummies.
17:35You know, a lot of people say, "Well, of course the small ones are fake, but the big ones are We didn't even touch the the small ones for that reason. We just were focusing on the big ones."
17:44And he tore these things apart. Um >> How so?
17:47>> It The For example, there's one uh there's one mummy named Paloma that has human hand bones in her feet.
17:56>> Human hand bones in her >> Human hand bones in her feet.
18:00Maria, the original mummy, has a clear cut at her Lisfranc joint.
18:04>> Yeah.
18:04>> And the fascia and the tendons didn't retract back, meaning it was probably cut after mummification. One of my favorite ones is Antonio.
18:15Here there's Paloma.
18:16Antonio is a mummy that has teenage bones all over their body except for their feet. Their feet appear to be like an elderly man's with arthritis and closed growth plates.
18:29Um there's so many other examples.
18:31I think in slide Joey, if you go to one of my next slides.
18:36To me, this is my favorite one. Go to the next one.
18:40So, the two most famous mummies are Maria and Montserrat.
18:44And Montserrat is the one that supposedly has the tridactyl three-fingered fetus inside inside of her. We'll talk about that one in a moment.
18:52But Maria here has four phalanges and Mar- uh Montserrat has three.
18:58And so, once this came out, their pivot was, "Well, they must be a different species."
19:03And so, this This thing is this whole scam has been going on for a long time.
19:09The playbook for this hoax has been going on for a long time. A lot of the doctors that was brought out by Jaime Maussan and team, Dr. Jose Benitez, were involved in the 2015 Roswell slides hoax. If you want to pull that up.
19:23>> Yeah, yeah. What was that?
19:24>> So, I might even have slides for it.
19:26But, um >> But, by the way, you can I I This is all like coming back to me, too.
19:31Like when when I was contacted and all that.
19:35I try to be like very up front with people and stuff. But, sometimes when there's like something very scammy and you get on a phone call with someone or a video chat and you're like, "All right, sounds good. Yeah, we'll do one."
19:46You get off and you're like, "Okay, how am I going to get out of this?"
19:49Something that you can do sometimes is first of all, I make people come here, so that helps. And you can always tell by how they react and how they want to schedule >> Yeah.
19:58>> how much of this is just a press blitz.
20:00And I remember before I ghosted them, like they were like, "Oh, we want you to" He called me. He's like, "I I want you to come out to Los Angeles and record there."
20:08>> Right.
20:09>> Like when we're doing this big press conference >> I remember that press conference.
20:12>> to roll it out. And I was like, "No, no, no. I record in New York in my studio."
20:16They said, "Okay." And then they hit me up and they're like, "All right, what dates work?" I was like, "Maybe like 2 months down the line or something like that. Like after the press conference."
20:23And then they're like, "Okay, yeah, yeah. We'll we'll fly out there after that."
20:28>> Yeah.
20:28>> And I didn't say anything about like getting their travel or anything like that. And then it died on the vine because I wasn't doing their [ __ ] >> press conference roll out. It wasn't going to be timed that way. They weren't just going going to like pick off a quick, you know, view session to be able to say, "Look, Joey Dorito picked it up.
20:44And then this [ __ ] guy picked it up.
20:46And that guy picked it up." Like you can tell behind the scenes like with some of this stuff, the salacious stuff, there's just some certain tells where it's like, "Okay, >> goes. This is marketing.
20:55>> Yeah, dog and pony show marketing.
20:57>> Yeah. But, please go through the 2015 hoax.
21:00>> of uh press conferences, they love their press conferences. Scroll down a little bit. I'll show you something funny here.
21:07So, keep on going. Keep on going.
21:11And so, here's the Roswell slides hoax.
21:13Um you can go back to this real quick.
21:16Roswell slides hoax is a 2015 Jaime Maussan and team uh said that this photo right here was an image of an alien from the Roswell slides crash.
21:27And Dr. Jose Benitez, which is in the next frame right here, actually the first time we've ever heard about three-fingered aliens is in 2015 before anyone ever knew about the Nazca mummies. In this press conference right there, he says, "This being only has three fingers. We can be certain that this being only has three fingers."
21:47Well, they didn't think to do a Freedom of Information Act request with the National Park Service uh to try to figure out where this picture came from.
21:56If you go to the next image, I hope this is okay to show.
21:59This is a dead Native American child.
22:02>> Let's make a note of that, Dief, like people will just have to look this up themselves cuz we can't have this on the screen. We'll just make this full screen with you and I looking at it in the post edit, but >> That's good. It's It's smart. So, >> look like a dead human. I'm not going to lie.
22:16>> That's That was taken at the Mesa Verde Museum in Colorado. And this was found in Arizona at a place called Montezuma's Castle. And if you zoom in real quick, I want to make a point. Zoom in on that left uh hand, and I know that people won't be able to see this, but just so everyone knows, you see a thumb there, right, Julian? You see back there there's a clearly a thumb right there.
22:37>> If where Dief's >> Yep.
22:40>> Okay.
22:40>> That's a thumb.
22:42>> Oh, yeah, I see it now. Okay.
22:43>> Now, let's go to the next slides here.
22:46And for those that are listening, we're I'm kind of going to try to make a a point right here.
22:52So, >> Yeah. Yeah, now you can show us.
22:54>> Speaking of press conferences, they really like their press conferences. Uh on the left here is the Roswell slides hoax press conference 2015. On the right is the Nazca mummies hoax press conference 2017 exact same characters.
23:08By the way, Dr. Jose de la Cruz is not a doctor. Uh he does not have a PhD in biology. That is a lie.
23:15>> he get away with that?
23:15>> I have They just throw [ __ ] at the wall.
23:18It It's It's They >> Is he a doctor in gender studies or something?
23:22>> No, he he's like a local biologist, but he is not a doctor. He's not a PhD.
23:27And they brought him out for the Roswell slides hoax.
23:31And they brought out Zalce Benitez, who's like the number one doctor that everyone cites for the Nazca mummies hoax.
23:37And then you can see these same guys in the early days of the Nazca mummies.
23:41So, if you go to >> [laughter] >> slide 14 right here, this just makes me laugh. This is still doctor and it's not a doctor, but this is uh This is de la Cruz. Yeah, that's true.
23:51We probably can't show this. My point is he's still promoting these mummies. And if you zoom in on his banner, he hides the thumbs. They're still saying they're three-fingered.
24:00>> All he changes it so people cuz you can't see what we're looking at. There's >> He He tweeted this at me a week ago.
24:06He's still promoting the Roswell slides.
24:08>> Let me explain this just cuz people can't see this if you don't mind. So, on the right side we have the picture that we can't show, which is why this is not on your screen right now, but Dief, if you go over to the left real quick he basically recreated this in like a textbook kind of real life-size breakdown with a bunch of labels and stuff then removed the thumb right there.
24:32>> Removed the thumb. And my point of telling you all this is whatever like it I don't even like I In the my first video, I didn't even really call this out because I was hoping I didn't have to, but people asked for why you think this is a hoax. People are really curious, why are your experts more credible than their experts? Well, my experts haven't been pushing the Roswell hoax uh for the last uh decade. They haven't been If you look up the Metapet creature or the demon fairy, a lot of these same guys were the >> fairy?
25:05>> A lot of the same DNA guys that they brought out for the Nazca mummies were used to try to confirm the demon fairy that Jaime Maussan was >> All right, real quick. I just have to go to the bathroom, but let's talk about the demon fairies and be right back.
25:19>> All right, we're back. Demon fairies.
25:21>> Demon fairies. So, a lot of the one of the guys they brought out for the Nazca mummies to do some of the early DNA tests was also involved in doing the DNA test of this demon fairy that you see here on the screen, which ended up being a bat that they >> [laughter] >> Which which and if you want to kind of play it, you know, um you'll see how ridiculous this is.
25:44This thing is just full of bat bones. It was a desiccated bat. They proved it once outside specialist actually got involved, but they did bring out this guy right here to basically say, "No, it's not a hoax. The DNA is showing that >> guy? The [ __ ] guy on the side of the road?
26:02>> Ricardo Rommel and uh he is supposedly a geneticist expert.
26:08Um and then he did the same thing with the Metapet creature, which ended up being a monkey um that they also promoted as an alien.
26:17Um and so Listen, this is the Metapet creature right here.
26:22My whole point of this isn't even to flame on this like >> Whatever. I like funny stories. Like I like entertainment entertaining television.
26:30>> But now we're talking about people desecrating ancient bodies, human human bodies.
26:35>> crazy.
26:36>> And people say they haven't been making any money on this.
26:40>> No.
26:41>> There's There's been people making money There's a big organizations that sell subscriptions to these documentaries that are making money off this.
26:49>> the other thing like you mentioned Gaia as well.
26:52So, my friend Darcy Weir has done some I think he just made another documentary.
26:57>> I I've met Darcy.
26:58>> Yeah, so Darcy did some amazing work on this and charting like went through all the depositions from when they got sued and everything and admitted that all their they had the creators admitted >> Yeah.
27:10>> that it's all [ __ ] And that's why like Darcy was to his credit was onto the Jason Sands story from day one.
27:19When Jason Sands came out because he realized it was like the scene in Step Brothers where the psychiatrist is like, "Isn't this just the plot to Goodwill Hunting?" He's like, "No." It's the same thing. The things Jason and the terminology Jason was using in telling his story were quite literally lifted from this [ __ ] that Gaia was pushing that they admitted under oath they completely made up.
27:40>> Yep. And Darcy, shout out to him. I was unaware of who Darcy was until this happened and it Darcy debunked these in like 2018.
27:48>> Yep.
27:48>> The Nazca mummies. He did the documentary with Brian Foerster, if it's the same Darcy I'm thinking about. I'm >> pretty sure it is.
27:53>> I believe it is.
27:54>> And um and and so he reached out right away and was was super helpful just helping me wrap my mind around all this cuz he's been on it since 2018.
28:04>> It you know, forget all the people who bamboozle people and make money on this and and defraud people and do it it's it's it's it's fraud if if something like this is actually what the evidence seems to show it is, which is that it it does it does appear fraudulent. But you know, it's also the kind of stuff that sets back the credibility of people trying to actually find truth on these things decades.
28:32>> Totally.
28:33>> like there was such a unique opportunity here with Christopher Mellon coming out in 2017 walking out of the Pentagon and going to the New York Times to put this into the actual zeitgeist of like >> UFOs.
28:47>> Right. Like this can be a seriously taken subject. Such unique opportunity and watching so many scammers and idiots blow it has been really difficult because I would like when I talked to David Kipping about this [ __ ] when I talked to Claudia de Rama about this [ __ ] I when I talked to Lee Kron about this [ __ ] I'm so interested.
29:09Because it it it there's there's immense possibilities.
29:12>> Yeah.
29:13>> And it's certainly meaning of life type type stuff. But like the people who have dominated the conversation unfortunately are not those people.
29:21>> Yeah. For sure. And uh Let me tell you part of it's it's a media complex. It's not If you're trying to people are saying that I'm grifting by hitting this topic so hard. I've lost money this last month. I've It is not a very profitable is not popular to do this. Debunking uh a new species of human or an alien is not actually very popular. In fact it kind of gets [snorts] pushed to the wayside.
29:47Um a lot of Yeah exactly. And a lot of people um have kind of dug their heels in or even poured uh cold water on some of this because I think that they had their skin in the game already. They had you know a sunk cost with already maybe plans to make a documentary in the future.
30:07And actually shout out to Jesse Michaels. He called me day one wanting to know what I knew.
30:11>> that.
30:11>> He called me day one.
30:13And really on the proponent's side of things you know Jesse was really the only one that like reached out genuinely wanting to know what this bio anthropologist who has papers that specialize on the evolution of the hands and the feet and what this radiologist who's one of the best radiologists in the world had to say about this. He gave them all a platform.
30:35Uh I don't want to speak to I don't know when that's coming out but uh yeah so >> And and I do I do want to say cuz Je- Jesse's a friend, Jesse really does give a [ __ ] Yeah, he does. You know, and their and their stuff like first of all, brilliant guy. Brilliant guy, you know, just just great yeah, great to talk with. Awesome dude. I had him in back for episode 240 back in 2024, but we'll do another one at some point here as well. Like he really is a fan of this stuff and he really does believe in this stuff and like there are some stories he covers that like he's like, "Well, maybe there's a chance that I'm like, mhm
31:12>> [snorts] >> I I don't think so." And that's fine, but he is genuinely curious to the point that he doesn't just come in and when someone like yourself may go make a case that's against something that he's like, "Oh, this would be really cool if it's true." And be like, "Well, I'm not going to talk to that guy." And you need more people like Jesse who come at it from like a genuine basis like that to be in the space.
31:35>> Then you're putting your you know, it's a pretty wild topic to be covering and so occasionally uh stuff like this is going to happen and his his YouTube channel is uh it's so it's so good. It's got so much great momentum that if these in my opinion, when these end up being accepted by the public that they're hoax, it's it's not going to hurt Jesse.
31:59Um >> No.
32:00>> And and um and so yeah, shout out to him. They were >> documentary by the way. I want to say this. Like there's nuance to it.
32:08>> There was nuance to it.
32:09>> He allowed the audience to decide open-ended on the end. I had a great conversation with him a few days later as well. Like that was absolutely fine.
32:17You You can't be afraid to do something that's going to later going to be like, "Ah, that was wrong." That's the whole point of investigating this stuff. So, people should not give that [ __ ] at all.
32:26>> Oh my gosh, like the amount of [ __ ] that I've like gotten wrong or half wrong or should have presented in another way.
32:33You know, people give or people are giving him [ __ ] right now because obviously his video it got like a million views. It really started the conversation for these going kind of mainstream again. But actually his video is what helped me tie a few more pieces together when it came to some of these characters that we just talked about. Zalse, Dr. Zalse Benitez saying that the tridactyl fetus had three fingers. You know, that's the one that everyone really hangs up on. It turns out that image that he was using and I actually have this on my PDF if you find like the image of the scans of the three fingers.
33:10Go up just a little. Right there.
33:14It's a cherry-picked image from what Dr. William Morrison said is an a an image basically that you can't make a diag- a diagnostic on. It's too blurry.
33:27>> What was it Okay.
33:28>> Dr. William Morrison that the radiology guy I was talking about.
33:32>> Uh-huh.
33:32>> And he even thinks that if you look close enough at the un-cherry-picked image like the one that's just like the top left that you could actually probably count five fingers. But they this is what they cherry-picked out of that. So and so >> Uh yeah, I see.
33:48>> They call that windowing. I have a video >> Windowing?
33:51>> Yeah.
33:52I don't really know what it means but I have a Dr. William Morrison's on my latest YouTube video titled This Is a Hoax. They titled the video This Is a Hoax the Nazca alien mummy scam. And Dr. William Morrison tears this part of it.
34:07>> Can we pull that up and play that?
34:08>> Absolutely. Yeah, let's do it.
34:10>> So once again Dr. William Morrison here >> I'll bet I'll By the way, I'll bet your video Sorry to cut you off but I'll bet your video if you had just titled it investigating the Nazca mummy.
34:22>> Right.
34:23>> Whatever.
34:23>> Are these real?
34:24>> Right. They would have done very well.
34:26>> Probably. Probably but you know, this isn't end of the chapter for me. So I wasn't I mean it'd be nice to get some views on this thing, but yeah, so I I if you go to the um description, I did put timestamps. I don't know why they didn't break them into chapters. But, uh you can see one of those is going to talk about Dr.
34:44William Morrison doing the three-fingered Yep.
34:47>> Got it. Okay, let's get some volume on this bad boy.
34:50>> So, this is the former president of the Society of Skeletal Radiology.
34:55>> Okay. Where?
34:56>> Um he has prac- He's an academic radiologist now, but he's practiced all, you know, in all kinds of >> Okay.
35:03All right, let's roll it.
35:04>> Typically, they removed the trapezium, >> So, this is >> a carpal bone that attaches to >> Sorry.
35:11>> Uh >> And the trapezium attaches to the scaphoid.
35:14>> Pause that. You just go Did we click on the right one? That's the >> Dr. William Morrison confirms Maria's thumb has been removed.
35:21>> No, do the uh You're going to want to do uh Okay, 0627, the tridactyl three-fingered fetus.
35:31>> Fine, let's fast Okay, here we go.
35:35>> Fast forward to 2024 and 2025. Shortly after it was announced that the mummy monster rots was pregnant, it was Dr. Zalce Benitez that popularized the idea that this fetus had three fingers.
35:48>> At the bottom, there are limbs positioned at the level of the skull.
35:54In front of this, we find it extended in a position directed towards the head.
36:00>> If If that If that >> be able to spot it, a conventional doctor.
36:05>> has the curiosity to be very careful, he will say, "This baby has three fingers in the hands and in the their kids."
36:15>> To start, I mean, this is in radiology what we call a non-diagnostic image.
36:19It's too um low resolution to really make any cogent descriptions of what's going on here. It's a bag of bones.
36:30It's low resolution. Everything is mixed up. So, what they did was they it looks like there's extra digits there, but they went to it in such that it looks like they removed the ones that were lower density uh lower brightness.
36:45Um that's just my impression that it's wishful thinking on their part. They wanted to see three, so they saw three.
36:52But um to me it it it's kind of funny when you see what looks like five things there and they removed two of them.
36:59>> [laughter] >> These two aren't the only experts involved with the Na- So, throughout that entire video, Dr. I just kind of will cut the clips of Dr.
37:08William Morrison just tearing these things apart. This is where the amputation happened on the little spring joint. They have hand bones in their feet. They've removed the metacarpal one and they've put it in the second phalanx. The trapezium's distal surface is I mean, he just breaks these things down. For four of the big mummies, he looked at four of them. And so, a lot of people are trying to say >> How many are there total now?
37:31>> Supposedly, the Waqero has like hundreds of different at least pieces of different mummies. And every now and then we see some freak freakish little demon mummy come out. They're all Some are small, some are big.
37:45And so, as for the big ones, I think there's like eight.
37:48And uh yeah, um right now they are in just total damage control mode. Calling Dr. William Morrison a liar, calling me a grifter, calling Dr. Proctor a liar.
38:01Uh but the good news is um for the truth is this has blown past this the Nazca mummy safe space.
38:08Um Dr. Morrison in this video tells me that next year at their Society of Radiology conference and then also another big conference which brings in 60,000 radiologists to Chicago in person that he's going to submit it presentation. And when you submit something to presentation, it goes through a peer-review process.
38:27And uh this is all blown past um this little, you know, expert's opinion of what these things are. Um it's about to be in front of a lot of radiologists that quite frankly laugh at. This is a joke to them.
38:40>> That's what I'm saying though.
38:41Unfortunately, there's going to be a subset of people and it's not 10 people who are full-blown I want to believe and even if shown the greatest evidence will say it's not real.
38:53And they'll say it's academia, so of course they're going to debunk it as other parts of academia have debunked things incorrectly in the past in other spaces. And that's the that's the unfortunate part cuz to me it's and maybe that's just cuz I'm also a little biased from the beginning cuz I talked to to Jaime and it's just, you know, I'm not a human lie detector, but I mean, if you'd been on that [ __ ] call.
39:14>> Yeah. Yeah, I interviewed him, too. And Jaime, you know, he's a charismatic, magnetic guy. Um I've heard he's a lot of fun to be around. Um and >> him?
39:24>> I did interview him.
39:25And uh I interviewed him twice, once in person kind of off the cuff when the Nasca mummies press conference got raided and then also uh on Zoom for my original documentary.
39:37I liked him.
39:38Uh I'm sure he's pissed at me right now, but hey, like it is what it is. Like this is wild and I owed my audience like a formal opinion after 2 years on this and yeah, it's people want to say, "Well, what if these were ancient artifacts? Maybe they did this in ancient times and it's not actually a hoax." First of all, even if that was true, we are this is still a hoax at this point. They've been pushing this so hard.
40:05Second of all, um there's reasons that that's not true and it's in my video. But um several there there's so many reasons we could talk I'll I'll name a couple of them. We got time.
40:17Um there have been cuts on the tendons and the fascia of these mummies. And those fascia and tendons, like if you were to tear your bicep, it would roll up into your arm, right?
40:29>> Correct.
40:29>> These cuts do not have any retraction, uh which Dr. Morrison believes indicates that these cuts were made after mummification, after desiccation of this body. Um and there's a doctor there's a paleontologist named Dr. um Julian Benoit uh that had the same analysis back in 2018 of some of these. And actually I have an image where you can see it's the green image on the PDF of her like uh hand. If you go down up a little bit, right there.
41:00So, Maria has five extensor tendons, and one of them's clearly cut at the thumb.
41:05And yeah, they there's no retraction there according to Dr. Morrison.
41:09>> Do we have see a cut there?
41:10>> Yeah. Um so, Dr. Proctor uh in some of his original work talks about it's clearly there's distal surface where the pinky should be as well. The thumb's so much easier to identify >> Right.
41:22>> uh that for people in there that we really focused on that. But yeah, in all of these the same thing happens over and over again.
41:27>> And what was the element, I can't remember if we were on camera, off camera, in between talking about this.
41:33So, apologies if this was said on camera a little bit ago. But what was the element of organized crime as well with this that you uncovered?
41:42>> Yeah. Well, these mummies are selling on the black market the black antiquities market for Maria was listed for a million dollars.
41:50>> By who?
41:51>> By um the people that supposedly found these or in my opinion constructed. And some of the smaller ones are selling for like they're listed for 20, 30 thousand dollars.
42:03>> And you think organized You have evidence that organized crime is handling that?
42:06>> I mean, that is organized crime.
42:09But >> Yeah, but are these actual like like mafia organizations in Peru?
42:13>> I've been told that that's what's going on.
42:16>> Who told you that?
42:17>> Uh there's people on there There's a lot of stories about people that have went down trying to get to the bottom of some of this.
42:24And uh >> Not today, Chico.
42:27>> Yeah. Yeah.
42:29So >> [laughter] >> you know um and I can't tell you that quite a few different people that have told me that.
42:38Um but it's a well-known thing. I think uh not to speak for him, but um well I I'll say what I was going to say there. But the these things there's more to that with the modern-day hoax. If you look at early pictures of Maria um in like 2017, she has like stroke marks on her face.
43:00Like just like like paint like somebody like brushed like brush marks I could say. It's not actual paint, but like they were molding and all that's gone.
43:08All of that is gone. And in the best what I think is some of the best evidence of this is there's actually been whistleblowers.
43:16Steve Mera is a guy that in September 2023 came out with a documentary saying that these were all a hoax and he had been investigating them for 6 years and he kind of got blown off of by everybody. Um and in that documentary he shows a Waqayaru whistleblower saying, "I'm the one that went and got them the fetus. I went and got them the body parts for all of these. I've went and got their Frankenstein, their He tells them how they did it that they have this factory basically where these taxidermists are coming together and making these things.
43:46>> Taxidermists?
43:47>> Yeah, according to Steve Mera, his um people on the ground said two taxidermists were involved.
43:54And why I find that compelling is Steve Mera in September 2023 predicted He said his Waqayaru whistleblowers told him that a bigger mummy was being constructed. And at the time the only big mummies we had seen was Maria.
44:11When I'm saying big mummies, I mean the humanoid ones, the human ones.
44:15Five months later at that press conference that I went to they announced Montserrat and all these other ones and Steve Mera's prediction came true.
44:24Um and so there's so many things that show that this is a hoax that like the people that need to explain on that are the ones that are saying it's not. It's It's It's It's time to like put up or shut up shut up. [ __ ] or get off the pot. Like Um they can't peer review because there's no provenance. Their chain of custody has no one knows about it and they know that and if even if they could it would there are hand bones there are human hand bones in Paloma's feet. They know they I think some of these guys know this.
44:58>> They have to. They're just like they're liars.
45:01>> Yeah.
45:02And um you know, after the Roswell slides hoax in 2015 they doubled down.
45:07They doubled down and they said nope.
45:10It's not a 2-year-old Native American child. That's wrong.
45:13Um >> Yeah, he changed the [ __ ] diagram. He He removed the thumb on the diagram.
45:17>> Yep, exactly.
45:19>> Exactly and they didn't ever I mean to this day that biologist is still promoting it. So >> That's [ __ ] >> In the end will this make the Nazca mummies go away? Um hopefully for like smart people that want to be grounded in reality and want the truth, hopefully it's like we had congressmen that were about to go to Peru and take pictures with these things.
45:42>> Oh my god.
45:43>> Um you know, it was starting to become a big deal.
45:46Uh >> At least they pulled out.
45:49>> Well, I don't know yet.
45:51>> They might still be going. Are you talking about like Burchett?
45:54>> Bur- not Burchett. What's the other guy's name from Missouri? Um I had heard that there was plans from them of them to go check these things out down in Peru.
46:04And uh I hope that they've seen the message because these are complete [ __ ] Um that's you know it there's nothing wrong with being an open-minded congressman. I these mummies are not it.
46:15>> Where's the Peruvian government today in 2026 as it relates to this?
46:20>> The Ministry of Culture just released uh some paperwork that basically make Maria and then a little baby mummy called Wawita, which even the proponents admit is butchered. They just released documentation that makes them cultural artifacts. And so the mummy people took that as a win because like this shows that Maria is authentic, not manipulated. If you read the fine text, they say she's a she's a almost like she's a human being Homo sapien.
46:49Um and so >> Taxidermy.
46:51>> Yeah. Well, and they don't really it's kind of vague, but um at the end of the day uh the anatomy the problems of the anatomy are always going to be there.
47:03They're bringing out DNA specialist now to try to figure out what's going on.
47:06>> Yeah.
47:07>> They're going to have to I hope they do do that. And I hope it gets peer-reviewed. I hope you can do it in a way that gets peer-reviewed.
47:14>> Guys, please don't let that happen.
47:16>> At the end of the day Paloma has hand bones in her feet. Montserrat has three phalanges while Maria has four. Maria has her articular surface of where her thumb should be clearly there.
47:27And like there's clearly amputations at the feet. And those are the questions that all these well-meaning investigators that are going down there need to now make sure they're telling their audience. Make sure you're telling your audience about the Roswell slides hoax and who was involved with that.
47:41Because I I keep seeing Zahi Hawass Benitez and all of his credentials. He worked for the Mexican Navy being rolled out. Well, let's also talk about the Roswell slides hoax just to make sure everyone has the information out there on the judgment the past judgment of some of these experts.
47:59>> That's what these guys do though. They double down even when presented with the truth and then change the narrative.
48:05They change the subject. Oh, we were talking Yeah, don't worry about that anymore. By the way, it was true. Now we're on to this.
48:12>> Constantly.
48:12>> And you see this again and again and it it creates a lot of cynics in the space and I I hate to see that, but you know, it's important that, you know, when where there's a case to be made and someone with a balanced head like you who's going to these [ __ ] press conferences, by the way, talked to all the people involved, talked to other experts who can review this from a scientific medical perspective, you know, is willing to come out and and tell that story and report it as it is.
48:40And like you said, like if you end up being wrong about something, you're someone that will say you're wrong.
48:44>> Totally.
48:44>> But I think in a situation like this, you're dealing with people on the other side that you can't say the same about.
48:49>> No, absolutely not.
48:51This whole thing is like turned The people that are still hanging on to this are just I I really think that there's been psychological damage done to a lot of these people. They've made it their identity.
49:03>> Yes.
49:03>> This has became a cult.
49:05>> Yes.
49:06>> And as a result, they'll never they'll never admit it.
49:11You know, there's a lot of double standards. I'm be People are saying, "Well, how could you say that these are a hoax? You haven't even had peer review yet." It's like, you guys have been saying that these are alien mummies for the last 9 years. There hasn't been one peer review. Uh none. And that's because they can't. They know they can't.
49:28Uh it would get cooked day one. They're They're clearly fake.
49:32>> Yeah.
49:32>> Yeah.
49:33>> And I wonder like if there's something behind it. Like I was thinking about some of the guys that pushed Jason Sands on James Fox. And I know let's just say they're coming from the government. It's like what's the what's the motive here? Is it to deflect from an actual truth?
49:56Is that actual truth something that is alien or not of this world or is it something else that's human that they don't want people to know about or is it both?
50:04>> You know, thinking about that was probably the most spooky part of deciding to go ahead and do this.
50:09>> Right.
50:10>> I do want to just say I think this is a localized >> This one.
50:16>> Yes.
50:17>> Okay.
50:17>> However, that doesn't mean it wasn't good enough that somebody with some pull goes, "Ah, that might be a cool thing to muddy the the waters with for whatever political reason."
50:28You know, and so all of a sudden we got all we have several congressmen that are interested in this. You know, people are becoming more open-minded about it.
50:38And in my opinion it's reached its peak.
50:40Like there's a lot of bag holders now, so to say, with with these mummies cuz it the peak in my opinion was probably a couple months ago.
50:50>> I don't think it's ever going to get back to there. I think people are starting to wake up to it. But as to what you said, as to what you said, I don't know.
50:57But uh yeah, like I hope there's not some intelligence agency or something like that messing around with this cuz you know, if that's the case you know, I'm sure they're not very happy with me right now.
51:10>> Well, it's an or maybe that's part of the plan, by the way.
51:13You know, maybe it's a big thing to blow it up so the people then >> Uh-huh.
51:17>> it you flood the the zone with >> noise and then people are like, "You know what? It's all bullshit."
51:22>> Yeah.
51:22>> That could totally be cuz that was my thought with the with the Jason Sands thing because the claims were so [ __ ] insane >> Yeah.
51:29>> that it's like and then Darcy Weir had it perfectly charted back to the guy at depositions like word for word, bar for bar.
51:36>> Yeah.
51:36>> like the Soulja Boy, he stole my flow, word for word, bar for bar.
51:40>> It's like it is indisputable.
51:42>> Yeah.
51:42>> And so I'm like, all right, why are objectively smart people pushing this, knowing his medical record, by the way.
51:50They knew his medical record of some of the stuff that he was cuz I I do not want to demonize Jason. I want to be clear about that. Jason I as a human being I got along with and I understood and we, you know, I I really understood with like he had admitted to having PTSD on his record and some of these other things and some of the therapies that he was put through for that. But also when you go through it wasn't just military. When you go through his whole life he had a very traumatic childhood. The first 32 minutes of episode 267 are very telling.
52:21>> Yeah.
52:22>> I didn't know anything about that. We came in here I did basically like an hour and a half podcast with James Fox and him. We were talking about James's new documentary at the time and then we went and took a break. I said, "All right, podcast two, let's just I was like, Jason, let's just get down to it."
52:36I said, "Where are you from?" Or something like that. "Where were you born?" And he tells his whole childhood story which you know, it had us in like borderline tears >> Yeah.
52:44>> hearing it. And so as a human being like I told him to his face afterwards I said, "Jason, I don't think these things happened.
52:51But I know you were in the military. I know you served out there on Nellis. I saw the paperwork for that. Thank you for doing that. And I really appreciate being so open about stuff because it's very clear to me that I I don't I don't think you're lying. I think you really believe the things you're saying because it's some of the things that that have happened to you and you know, take that for what it's worth. But that does not change the fact that there are people who knew >> Yeah.
53:15>> he had these issues who decided to still push him. I mean, they were aggressive telling James to put him in that documentary. James was really like, ah, I don't know, but then he trusted those guys and it it it bit him in the ass.
53:30>> Yeah. And that's I mean, to be fair I guess 2015's been a long time ago, but it's not that long and you can go look up any of this stuff.
53:38>> That's right.
53:38>> Um it and the story needs to be told in full now. This playbook that we've seen with the NAS is the press conferences, the experts, the DNA, the you know, all the [ __ ] It's happened over and over again for a long time. And it's media. It's it's storytelling. It's you know, it's it's selling subscriptions for adult bedtime stories.
54:03And um it got out of control because this one deals with actual human beings that have been desecrated. Um and it's got that's really dark. Yeah, it's [ __ ] up. And it's what George Knapp said on his I was on the George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell podcast and he said ghoulish. That's probably the best word for it. It's like ghoulish. It's weird. It's like >> So they they I I haven't seen their take so much they think this is all [ __ ] >> Well, they they just gave us a platform and like good journalists, they let us tell our story.
54:32>> Great.
54:33>> Um and so I don't want to speak for them, but they were very like on they were very they saw what we talked about.
54:40So >> Message received.
54:42>> Yeah.
54:43>> That's great.
54:43>> And they've been skeptics from the beginning on this. So yeah, I don't think it's unfair to say that we convinced them.
54:50>> Yeah, and listen, there's other stories you hear that it's like that is that is something when it gets to like close encounters of the of the third kind, it starts to get like all right, what?
55:03But you know when you go through the history of just even take like right after World War II up through you know, 2000 >> Yep.
55:12>> and sightings around the world much of which occurred before 1990 before there's internet before people had mass communication with each other and you see that these 18-year-olds in Australia describe the same things that these 7-year-olds in Africa describe and then you know, the from this decade and then that decade and then this is described here it's like again, I don't know if it's aliens. It could be [ __ ] DARPA.
55:38>> Yeah.
55:39>> But something's up. And then yes, there are like the '94 Zimbabwe one is one that really sticks with me and that could be some, you know, back misremembering therapy, but they did an amazing job with that if that's the case cuz those children all tell such consistent stories and like, you know, I I'm I'm open to that stuff.
56:01I really am. But to your point, when you run into one that is just categorically [ __ ] and it's provably categorically [ __ ] with evidence and science and all that, you have to call it out.
56:14>> Yep. Balls and strikes. I am totally on board with like I have one of my videos that is my most watched one of my most watched videos of all time is I interviewed Ronnie Johnson from Delphos, Kansas, who at the time in 1971 had one of the most intriguing UFO stories of all time.
56:33>> What was that story?
56:34>> So, I first of all, just to preface this, I went and cold knocked on his door.
56:40He didn't know who I was.
56:41>> [laughter] >> I just showed up to Delphos and was like, "Ronnie, can I talk to you?" cuz he doesn't really do interviews. I think he did one thing with the Discovery Channel like a couple decades back.
56:49But here's the story. Ronnie Johnson was 15 years old living out on his farm in Delphos, which is north of Salina, Kansas, near not too far from Topeka, the capital. Little small cow town, wheat town, corn town. And he he was feeding his sheep. He was in his pigs. He was doing chores and he heard this rumbling.
57:12And he goes outside and all of a sudden he finds himself like temporarily paralyzed and he's looking at the what he described as like a light that was so light it was like you were getting welder burns from this mushroom-shaped object.
57:28And this is Ronnie Johnson, Delphos, Kansas, if you ever want to look this up.
57:33And after a period of time when both him and his dog and his sheep are all temporarily paralyzed, he says, it goes away. He doesn't know how much time passed, but all of a sudden he can move again.
57:46And he go The sheep jumped the fence, the dog's going crazy, the pigs like go wild through the fence. He goes inside and tells his parents and they don't believe him.
57:55But they come outside and there is a circle.
57:59>> Like a crop circle?
58:00>> There's a circle in the dirt and it's glowing.
58:05And there's pictures of this.
58:07It's glowing and his mother touches it on her hands and her her thigh cuz she rubbed it on her thigh and she lost feeling in her hands for the rest of her or that part of her hand for the rest of her life, including her She got paralysis in her thigh for the rest of her life.
58:23They took a Geiger counter to this thing and it was radio- as far to the, you know, level of radioactive that you could you could see. This circle existed for decades on their farm. They put a little fence around it. There were burn marks on the tree.
58:40One of the scientists or not sci- the science teacher who I met, um really nice guy, took a sample of this dirt and uh kept it in the museum there. He actually let me take some of that dirt and I sprinkled some water on it because this dirt the pH is maxed out. It's as full pH like the high pH as you can get and it repels water. It doesn't mix in with dirt and I confirmed that.
59:05And the circle was there for a long time. It turned into this white powder.
59:08It started growing these mushrooms which were also, according to Ro- Ronnie, radioactive and would make your hands turn numb if you touched them.
59:16And he showed me pictures of all that.
59:17It's in my documentary. I called it the greatest UFO testimony of all time because Ronnie is salt of earth.
59:24Like there's a type of person from like a place like Kansas that's incapable of lying in my humble opinion. And Ronnie feels like that guy.
59:33Where you're just like he just he just orating a memory as it's coming in his head.
59:40>> He's seeing something regardless.
59:42He's seeing something that happened.
59:44>> Yeah, and he doesn't like talking about it. And he says it ruined his life. I believe he was injured by this thing. Um and you know, he had bad I he said he was plagued with nightmares. He claims that it would come back and that he would have premonitions and like almost predict when it would come back.
60:00Um and so the other thing is he wasn't the only one that saw it. A deputy from I believe Minneapolis Kansa- Kansas nearby town uh corroborated that he saw the UFO flying around.
60:13This is also an area of the country that is full of those nuclear missile silos at the time.
60:20Kansas North Central Kansas and Nebraska all throughout. You can go buy for 600,000 bucks. You can go buy an abandoned missile silo out there and >> [laughter] >> turn it to your little Armageddon playground cuz they're everywhere.
60:32They're everywhere including that area.
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60:40And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.
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