MILLIONS of Iranians Attend Ayatollah’s Funeral! Graham Platner to Drop Out?! w/ Savage Joy Marie

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8:27Here we go. [music] Here we go.

8:57>> [music] >> Hello there everybody and welcome to the Jimmy Door Show. My name is Katon Weiss filling in for Jimmy this evening. Got a great show for everybody. Thanks very much for being here. Always a pleasure uh to get to do this. And so uh hope everybody has a good enough time with me tonight. It's my job to entertain you and I am here to do the best that I can.

9:30Hope everybody had a good July 4th.

9:33Happy 4th of July to all of you, except of course you godless communists. Tough July 4th for the communists. Kind of tense, right? Kind of a kind of a tense mood if you're a dirty communist this July 4th. Got a lot of negative press for the communists uh this this year.

9:52I'll tell you, communism uh gets very very unfairly in the press. Gets very bad press. Communism, you know, it's very unfair what they do to the communists. It's horrible. It's terrible. They get worse pressed than me, those communists. Uh, well, thanks everybody once again for being here. We got a great show. Kurt Mezer will be joining us a little bit later, but I want to waste no time introducing our guest for the evening for these first couple of stories. Savage Joy Marie Man is the host of a long-running podcast where she's interviewed over 300 guests over the years, including activists and

10:30public figures, a prominent disability rights advocate. She served as a national organizer, a lead organizer for the March for Medicare for all, and produces in-depth investigative journalism on wrongful convictions, notably advocating for prisoner Teigin Kenu, who we're going to talk about this evening. Her broadcast blend sharp political commentary with humor that amplifies marginalized voices and challenges systemic corruption. She has a new book out called Our Friend Teigan about this Teigian Kenu case. Please welcome to the program Joy Marie Man. My friend, thanks for being here.

11:09>> Thanks so much for having me. It's been a minute since I've been on Jimmy's show. And you know what? I really have to update that because I've interviewed almost 600 people now. [laughter] >> Oh wow. Well, there you go.

11:21>> Years this month. So, yeah.

11:23>> Oh, awesome. Awesome. Well, congratulations. It has uh been a long run uh for you. And yes, yes, now up to over 600 guests. Well, that is awesome.

11:33And we talked about this Timmy Kenu case about a year and a half ago on my show, but this is the 40th uh anniversary uh of the crime for which he is still in prison. And uh this is just an absolutely shocking case that you know I always think is worth amplifying not just because of the injustice done to one man but because of the implications for all of us. I mean this is really a case of the government just deciding you know what somebody has to take the fall for an unsolved crime. And it could be anybody. It could be anybody. I mean if they could do this to him they can do this to anybody. So, why don't we just

12:12start off with a little video breakdown.

12:15This was a news report from a few years ago about the pretty high-profile uh ongoing fight to overturn this wrongful conviction. Let's take a look.

12:27>> And fight [music] for freedom intensifying decades after his conviction of a crime he claims he did not commit. 36 years ago, Tamujen Kenu, then known as Fred Freeman, was found guilty of murder in the death of student Scott Mlum. The judge sentencing him to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

12:45>> Today, the calls for clemency in his case are growing. 7 Action News reporter Amamira David shows us how the daughter of boxing legend Muhammad Ali is stepping into his corner in hopes of getting his conviction overturned.

13:02He claims he's serving time for a murder he did not commit.

13:05>> It was the murder case that captivated our WXYZ airways in the 80s and 90s. Now referred to as one of America's most egregious wrongful conviction cases.

13:17>> The suspect claimed he was some 450 mi away at the time, but was never given a polygraph. 37 years behind bars for Fred Freeman, the Michigan man who now goes by Timigjin Kenu, convicted in the 1986 murder of a St. Clair County College student. Over the years, attorneys and journalists alike have found flaws in the argument that put him away. And today, a high-profile voice added to the chorus demanding his clemency.

13:48>> It's a fight that I refuse to give up.

13:50Activist Kalia Ali, daughter of boxing legend Muhammad Ali, speaking in Ann Arbor today about why she is involved.

13:58It's >> the kind of thing that I know if my father was still here, he'd be fighting today.

14:02>> Earlier, she met with Ken Su at his correctional facility, then with his attorney, Imran Sed.

14:08>> The police, for some reason, became convinced that he was their suspect.

14:11Anyway, >> Sad says police worked backwards to prove his guilt.

14:16>> You look at many actual instance claims around the country. This one has more misconduct than just about any other.

14:22>> Also in Kenu's corner, Bill Proctor, who you may recognize as WXYZ's veteran investigator.

14:29>> It was 30 years ago that I started covering the story.

14:34>> Proctor credited with exposing viewers to some of the troubling red flags, the results of a state administered polygraph test.

14:42>> I was there with a camera when he passed it. on top of multiple alibi witnesses placing Kenu far away from the crime.

14:51>> We think this is exactly the sort of case that clemency is designed for where the facts of his innocence are extremely clear >> and I just have full faith that the governor is going to come out and work with us on that.

15:00>> And today is Teajin Kenu's 60th birthday, his 37th birthday behind bars.

15:06An application for his clemency sits on the desk before Governor Gretchen Whitmer. We reached out to the state for comment but did not immediately hear back. I'm Amamira David, 7 Action News.

15:19>> Okay, so before I toss to you, Joy, I just want to a brief note for the audience. You know, when you hear this story and how it went, it really is kind of difficult to believe what you're hearing. It is it is it borders on too strange to be real. That's that's how darkly comic this case is if it weren't so tragic. If there were not a man whose life was literally stolen from him for absolutely no reason whatsoever. So with that as a sort of pretext here, um why don't we just start from what the crime was, who the victim was, when it was committed, and how Teen Kenu became the man with the target on his back.

16:08>> Yeah. And and you're so right. This story is insane. And I do just want to give the precursor that I have, you know, um documentation, cord files, like everything all throughout my book [laughter] because I know people are going to be like, "Yeah, this is bad shit."

16:26>> It's been reported on mainstream media.

16:28I mean, I have, not to cut you off, but I have a mainstream news article that we're gonna read through in a little bit. So, it this sounds too crazy to be true, but it's not.

16:36>> Yeah. So, um, 40 years ago, uh, November 5th, 1986, a young gentleman, Scott Mlum, he was 19. He was shot in the side once in his community college parking lot. Um, and he was the mayor's son. So, um, Port Heron, Michigan is the area.

17:02And of course, since he was the mayor's son, we got to finish this Now, this needs to be expeditious. We need someone to pay for this. Um, Teigen was known as kind of like this bad boy.

17:18He was never like in trouble for anything like physical or bad or whatever, but he was in a rock and roll band. He had long hair. He rode a Harley, leather jacket, you know, just one of those people. Especially back then, it was during the whole satanic panic nonsense and all of that. Um, now you look at people like that and you're like, whatever, it's dumb. It doesn't.

17:44But back then, you know, he was looked at as, okay, he's up to no good. Um he was dating a girl who was not um the most healthy uh to be dating and her and her sister recommended him as far as perhaps one of the people who killed Scott. Um, now 12 or excuse me, over a dozen witnesses came forward and said that he was almost 500 miles away at the moment with a receipt showing his car was broken down and he was waiting for the parts to come in.

18:28So they had, you know, this guy who they wanted to pin it on, but you have over a dozen witnesses saying, "Wait, we literally saw him." And they accounted for every moment of the day. So you have, you know, how can we pin it on him? We He looks like he could be like the perfect fall guy, so we got to make this work. Um, so they, one of the guys actually asked him if he knew time travel, uh, because he was very into martial arts. Um, which was like, you know, nunchucks and everything that was very weird back in the 80s where he lived. Um, so they were like, "Yeah, do you do time travel?"

19:19They had to think of something to get him almost 500 miles away at that time.

19:25So then they came up with this theory that he must have hired a private plane.

19:31Teigan was actually on medical assistance. Um he was getting food stamps. He had no money at all. Um his girlfriend was eight and a half months pregnant. Um, apparently he just goes to the airport, finds a guy hanging around and just a pilot who says, "Yeah, you know what? I will fly you." Almost 500 miles away because, you know, I'm just hanging out. There's also a blizzard at this point. Um, no cell phones, no other car or anything. So apparently, according to the prosecution, he gets this guy who's just chilling at the airport in a blizzard. He flies him almost 500 miles. He has a getaway car

20:26set up for him to go kill Scott and then he the pilot waits around for the car to come back to him and then he flies him back home.

20:40um no pilot, no plane, no flight log, nothing, but this is what they're going with, which inadvertently acknowledges the fact that he was not in the area.

20:53So, they're already saying, you know, yeah, I think they're right. Like, he has witnesses. We got to say he wasn't in that area somehow. So nine of these witnesses testified in court that they placed him over 400 miles away from the crime within hours of the crime having taken place.

21:13>> So the theory was that he chartered a roundtrip private plane to go >> commit this crime and then fly back to where he was.

21:23>> That was the theory.

21:24>> And that theory apparently passed muster at trial. So adding on to this, they had I guess an expert witness testify at the trial, a pilot, right?

21:39And do you want to say who that who that pilot was?

21:42>> Well, a lot of the information was found out after [laughter] the trial unfortunately and it turns out it was the judge's uh private pilot. So um yeah, inconvenient for >> so Okay. So already this just sounds so insane. So I just want to read from NBC News here. Aviation experts dispute plane theory used to convict Michigan's ninja killer. Speaking to, you know, your point about the satanic panic and all of the sort of, you know, conformity of the day. You could see just in the branding a smear campaign against this guy right from Jump. Three aviation experts have written letters to Michigan

22:24Governor Gretchen Whitmer in support of a bid for clemency by a state prisoner nicknamed the ninja killer who has been fighting to overturn his murder conviction for more than 30 years. The letters, which were delivered to Whitmer's office by Tejin Kenu's legal team on December 5th, cast doubt on the sensational theory presented at trial that the then 23-year-old could have chartered a private plane to fly him from one end of the state to the other, shot the victim, and returned home without leaving a trace. "It's so improbable, it's unbelievable," said Harvey Setter, 82, who wrote one of the letters. Setter, now retired, managed

23:05the Delta County Airport in Eskanaba, Michigan between 1982 and 1999.

23:11The two other letters were written by the former owner of an airport service station and a commercial pilot who both offered a similar assessment to Setters based on their knowledge of local airports connected to the case and past experience with the key witness behind the plane theory. The men say they were not previously contacted by authorities.

23:31Ken Su, now 60, has insisted since his arrest that he had nothing to do with the fatal shooting of Scott Mleham, 20, a student at St. Clair Community College in a campus parking lot in 1986.

23:43No physical evidence has ever connected Kenu to the murder. At trial, nine alibi witnesses placed him in Eskanaba, more than 400 miles away from the crime scene in the hours before and after the murder. But Mike Wendling, the current top prosecutor in St. Clair County dismissed the plain theory as a red herring. Wendling said in an interview that he's convinced the jurors convicted Kenu in part because they didn't believe the alibi witnesses. Nine witnesses.

24:13Nine witnesses didn't believe them.

24:15Three other people testified at trial.

24:17They believe they saw Kenu, who went by Fred Freeman before he converted to Buddhism in prison on campus the morning of the killing. If you were to sit down and look at this case fresh again, Freeman would still be the leading suspect, Wendling Ling told NBC News, which I think is just kind of an insane thing to say. Well, he's still the most likely suspect. That's not that's not the threshold you have to meet as a prosecutor. You have to prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt, right?

24:45>> And it's easy for them to say because they never treated anyone else like a suspect. They never interviewed anyone else. So yeah, he's the most likely because he's the only one you ever had.

24:57>> Right. Right. Exactly. So you mentioned, you know, also, and you write about this in the book, some of the corruption surrounding the case at and around the time of the trial. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

25:08>> There's so much. Um, so I'll do like my uh just a brief synopsis. Um, the prosecutor, defense team, and judge all knew each other and were working together. Um there was dirty money involved. There were other politicians involved. The prison staff paid a guy, Philip Joplin, to um say that Teigan admitted to him that he committed this crime and then later recanted when he got sick with cancer. um Teigan's so-called defense who was a public defender um was notably um a an alcoholic and did crack cocaine throughout the entire trial was disbarred. He did not get a new trial even despite even though his other

26:04clients did get a new trial. Um there's just so much. It is it is a very very poorly written movie.

26:16>> Yeah. No, I mean it you would really not believe this if this were a script. You would think it is too far-fetched and too absurd. Um and that's why this has been, you know, a fight for the 40 years that this man has been in jail. I mean, this is everybody's worst nightmare is that you just get swept up into the system for no reason. Obviously, here you had a connected person who was killed. There's tremendous pressure on the police to solve the case. When a mayor's son is killed, that can't go unsolved. You have to get somebody. And uh this guy was just so obviously railroaded that nine witnesses can

26:52testify under oath. They saw him 400 miles away. And the explanation at trial was that he chartered a private plane to and from the crime scene. I mean, it's just beyond laughable. So much so, apparently that Gretchen Whitmer, the current governor of Michigan, apparently her father, who has since passed away, had lobbyed her to commute his sentence.

27:13Is that correct? And she has apparently not commented on this case uh one way or the other.

27:20>> Yeah. And and that's what's so frustrating because in this past May, it was 40 years. Um he went in at 23, he is now 63. Um and he is known as the most famous wrongful conviction in Michigan and one of the most famous in our country. Um she was well aware of him.

27:42She has a history working in law um as many politicians do. She knew of him. We have sent thousands of emails and postcards and letters and we call non-stop. Um, she has never made a statement either way. Um, which is the worst thing because she knows he's innocent to the point that she's never had the backbone to even say, "Hey, I think he's guilty. I won't let him out."

28:11She won't say that because she knows he's not guilty and she knows the push back would be astronomical. Um, she is talking about running for president. Um, and she has had his clemency papers on her desk for seven years now. Teigan is represented by eight innocence organizations.

28:34He has um Khali who was in the video, she's in my book as well. Um, you know, he has um the lead um advocate of the Supreme Court of India tweets support for him. I mean, his support goes worldwide and some of your favorite movie directors, actors and such have more on the down low, but they have met with Whitmer and stuff on his behalf. She will not budge. Um, I get into this in the book.

29:11Corruption always comes down to money.

29:14Um, and it comes down to the fact where this man has already wasted 40 years of his life. And you know, another thing, I digress a bit, but something that's very difficult for him, understandably, um, when he calls me from prison, he talks a lot about how people he knows in his wing, who are being let out, who do the most, disgusting, just awful things to family members, things like that. And they get out in like 10 years. And he's like, I supposedly not to minimalize minimize this in any way, shape, or form because this man was a victim, but he was shot one time and here's this man 40 years later, no possibility of parole. And

30:10he's just in there like trying everything. We have done everything. So at that point, I'm like, look, I can't believe nobody's ever written a book.

30:20I'm doing it.

30:22Well, the book is called Our Friend Teigan, the wrongful conviction of Teigan Kenu. You put me in touch with Teigan. I got to talk to him on the phone once after we did our first interview about this uh over on my show uh about a year and a half. And um you know, I I think a big part of it I mean sure state politics, money, relationships, all that. I mean, New York is a machine politics state. I'm not as familiar with the intricacies of Michigan politics, but I think a huge part of this is the fact that, you know, uh, she does not want to be perceived as soft on crime. I mean, you see, espec, you know, Democrats in particular can

31:04often be even worse than Republicans on this issue because they have a reputation for being soft on crime. You remember Bill Clinton when he was running for president. He flew to Arkansas to oversee the execution of a man who was essentially, and I don't say this to be crude. I mean literally a mentally man. A man who had tried to kill himself after committing a murder. He ended up lobbotomizing himself. And the man literally had the mentality of a child. And his name was Ricky Ray Recctor. and Bill Clinton because he was running for president.

31:33Flew to Arkansas, made a big theatrical show of executing this guy in a display of performative cruelty meant to convince people that he was tough on crime. And Gretchen Whitmer, I'm sure, rationalizes this to himself. Well, I'm a woman and so if I'm a woman and I'm going to run for president, I have to show I'm tough, which means I can't let a murderer out of jail. Even though her own father apparently had been lobbying her uh to commute his sentence. That's that's how obvious it is. That's how outrageous it is. And it's just it's just it's unconscionable. I mean, to to be the kind of person who has the power

32:08to try and get this guy some piece of his life back that was just stolen from him for for no reason. And to decline to do that because of your your own political ambitions, it's just it's craven beyond what most of us can fathom.

32:22>> And there are people on her staff who also want him out. I mean, this is a very, you know, a lot of people are very unapologetic.

32:32He I see him I've known him six years now. I and I flew out to meet him in prison. Um interviewed him for over four hours and uh I'm 85% blind. So, I convinced them to after a long process convinced them to let me bring in a tape recorder um because it's hard for me to read and write without my electronics which you can't bring in. So I have the first the only recording in over 30 years in Michigan prison um because of that. So yay something good came out of my blindness. But anyway, when I went to see him, it was it became so much more clear what he deals with on an everyday basis. It is so filthy, so nasty. People are so

33:24rude. the people who like work in the prison are oh they'll treat you like trash too because you're visiting even myself as a journalist who's not like you know one of them or however they refer to them teen says they say that even me it didn't matter like they think you are all just complete scum and it takes its toll of course mentally physically Um, and as we spoke before we went live, Teigen's not well healthwise.

34:02>> Yeah, he is sick. He has a mass in his brain. Could be cancer. Not getting the treatment that he needs for it. It's just it's just a horrible story. And um it's it's a story about how much uh your how many rights uh we actually have in this country. You know, you have rights on paper, but if if the government wants you, they'll come get you. and if they need somebody, they'll go get somebody.

34:27And uh it's just really scary. It's very sad, but it's a very important story and I'm so glad that you've been highlighting it. So, we're going to keep you for one more segment, but before we wrap this segment, just tell people where they can find your your book and learn more about this case, please.

34:42>> Yeah. So, you can get my book at barnes &oble.com or Amazon.com.

34:48Um, I do keep Tigen updated with book sales and um, if you leave comments and reviews or anything like that. Um, he sends his love, Katon, and to Jimmy for having me on. He is a big fan and he loved um, you know, speaking with you as well. Um, he gets so excited and it means so much. any, you know, I always tell them get about positive comments or or anything. Um, it keeps them going.

35:20So, um, anyone who buys this book and can share the story, we appreciate it so much. It's so important to to get this story out. Um, because I don't know how long he has left, quite honestly.

35:39>> Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I've heard you say in the past that you suspect that they want him to die in prison so that they never have to actually face what they did and they never have to be held accountable for what they did to him. If he dies, he he goes away.

35:52>> So once again, a very sad story, but a story worth highlighting nonetheless. So thank you for sharing that uh with us.

36:00>> Okay, we're going to go Absolutely.

36:02Yeah, we're Okay, we're going to go right into our next uh story here. So I'll reset this. Welcome to the Jimmy Door Show, everybody. Katon Weiss here with Savage Joy Marie Man who is an author, podcaster and activist, very prominent East Palestine activist. And so there is some news out of East Palestine, Ohio. Uh this week a new study, new study suggests, look at that health damage from exposure to Ohio toxic train spill. Wow, that's really surprising. I didn't see that coming. I thought it was safe to go back home and uh everybody was being paranoid and uh you know being a bunch of grandstanders

36:41for for making a big deal out of this here. Uh research finds immune systems still responding to toxic chemical exposures related to East Palestine derailment in the weeks after the East Palestine train wreck culminated in a towering fireball and chemical release in the small Ohio town. Jessica Borisma was seriously exposed to the stew of compounds emitted from the derailment site. Boerma lives less than a quarter mile away and as a city council member, she had to spend significant time at the site coordinating with first responders.

37:17Now, the first long-term research carried out on East Palestine residents exposed to the disaster suggests how it may have affected her. Blood drawn 6 months after the accident showed signs of chronic inflammation and altered cell counts, suggesting the chemical exposure had damaged her body. More broadly, the new peer-reviewed pilot study that checked blood samples suggests that some East Palestine residents immune systems were still quote responding to toxic chemical exposures by fighting off an attack or repairing their bodies. The research did not look for particular diseases. Compared with a control group,

37:54East Palestine residents showed higher numbers of red blood cells, higher hemoglobin levels, inflammation, and an increase in the number of cells the body dispatches to attack and eat chemicals in order to remove them from the body.

38:08The East Palestine residents also showed higher levels of proteins that work to repair tissue damage and lower numbers of cells that fight infection, which suggests a response to a chemical exposure. Quote, "This pilot shows evidence that the bodies of those who lived in close proximity to the site were still fighting and repairing from a toxic exposure," said Aaron Haynes, a University of Kentucky study co-author.

38:32The researchers will next check a larger group of residents and first responders for the same issues. The studies are part of a broader University of Kentucky effort to track long-term health problems in East Palestine residents.

38:45So, this was a couple days after the incident. the guy who it's really when you look back on this, you know, as disastrous as this uh Trump second term has been, when you look back and you see this guy, it is really hard to imagine that he was president for four years and that he thought he could be president for another four years. So, here he is midway through his term talking about uh meeting with the residents of East Palestine because famously, of course, Trump beat him to the spot.

39:14Are you planning to travel to East?

39:16>> No, I was not. I was did a whole video on >> I did >> you know the what the hell zoom >> zoom >> zoom >> zoom all I think every time I think of zoom in my j who's zoom and who let me answer the question >> the answer is that I uh I had a long meeting with my team what they're doing you know we were there two hours after the train two hours I've spoken with every single major figure in both in both Pennsylvania and and in Ohio.

39:54>> Oh my god, that is just absolutely brutal. That is just brutal. And meanwhile, Donald Trump and uh then Senator J. D. Vance uh beat him to the spot. Uh here they are making their big trip to East Palestine.

40:13All >> [cheering] [cheering] >> right, guys. [cheering] >> All right, guys.

40:39>> So, they were very excited to see him there. Uh you've been to East Palestine, Ohio how many times since this accident?

40:46>> Five.

40:47>> Five times. Five times. So you've met with a lot of the people. I don't know if you're familiar with any of the people cited in this report. I know you've done a lot of interviews there.

40:56>> Yeah. And I was there that day um that Trump was there. Um, and the interesting thing I digress about uh a bit, but Biden when he says he met with people, the truth is he met with three people and they were pre-seelected and they work for an organization that Hillary Clinton is connected to. So they were like aspiring politicians, right?

41:23They were not activists. They were not.

41:25One of them didn't even leave live in the vicinity of anything. It was it was a total show. He did absolutely nothing. He didn't meet with anyone who was truly affected, who needed to be truly heard.

41:42But as far as Trump, >> there's a lot. I mean, East Palestine as a whole hates Trump. Hates him because of what he's done. like nothing. Um, but when he was there, I was standing with some of my friends who were, you know, who had signs and were crying and pleading, "Help us. Help our children.

42:08Help us." Just at the motorcade as it was going by. And I have it on my page.

42:16It was heartbreaking [clears throat] because you see these little kids, you know, wearing gas masks for children.

42:25Never knew there was such a thing. Um, and the parents are just begging. Not to mention Vance is from the area and he used to go and fight for them in court.

42:40That's what's so bananas. They actually thought they would get some relief when he was elected because he, you can Google it or go on YouTube, you can check, you know, him going in court and fighting for people of East Palestine.

42:59That's why it is so disgusting. About a year ago, he came out and did a press conference. I'm going to be working firsthand with East Palestine residents.

43:09Nobody knows what the hell he's talking about. Everyone knows everyone and we're all they're all like, "I didn't talk to him. Did you talk to him?" Um, and nothing nothing has happened.

43:21>> Yeah. I mean, we see a headline this week after bold pledge EPA shelves microplastics testing in US drinking water. When I had you on my show last, we did a story about how the EPA is now placing a zero value on human lives when factoring in the cost benefits of, you know, regulating dangerous chemicals out of certain systems, right? I forget the exact particulars of the story, but this headline is definitely in keeping with that just betrayal after betrayal. This was something that the Maha Coalition, which was very instrumental in getting Trump into the White House, cared a lot about. They signaled they were going to

43:59go the other way on this. And now, what do you know? So, in your experience, I mean, you said you were there on the day that that Trump went there. They obviously were furious at Biden from Trump. We saw a lot of the comments that the mayor had made about Biden, rightfully so. Obviously, uh, no argument there. Now, that now that Donald Trump has let them down, uh, What do you sense is a political consequence of this? Because this was always a story where I I kind of flagged from day one. You know, when you talk when you hear stories like this or in like a place like Flint, Michigan, you just can't help but wonder where all of

44:39that despair goes, how all of that gets channeled because, you know, these are just forgotten pockets of the country that Trump really exploited as part of his messaging both times he ran. That's why he did very well in places like this. Um, but where's the beef? There is none.

44:58>> Yeah. I mean, I gotta say it's it's nothing but voter apathy, you know, as a whole at this point. Um, the people I speak with say, "I don't give a if I ever vote again." There's no point.

45:13Politicians >> are not your friends. They They don't care about us. that when we have someone who in our area who goes to the White House and they're not helping us, you know, um it's been one person after another. And I mean coverage wise, it's me, it's you guys, and it's um Status Coup, and it's um News Nation. That's it. So, they look at things like that, and they're like, "Okay, nobody really even covers us." like it's been over three years now.

45:51Does anybody care? Like what is going on? Um and you have these people who have this, you know, insane amount of pressure and they just um they ignore the people. Anyway, um the the woman you um her name was Jessica in the little bit of the article you read, she was on the city council.

46:16She ignored the pleas of these people for three years and then left the council because she moved. And now she wants to talk about how things are affecting.

46:31And we're seeing this a lot.

46:33Unfortunately, we are seeing a lot of new people coming out because now they are acknowledging they're being affected as well.

46:41Um, I was told this is a this is breaking news. Um, I was told this about a couple weeks ago. I wasn't allowed to share it. I was told again today and I was given permission to share it. Um now as far as the residents have by surveying themselves um there are 64 people in East Palestine and the direct vicinity of with cancer.

47:14>> Wow. Wow.

47:16>> 64 people.

47:17>> And it's a very low population town, right? Do you know what about the population of East Palestine? It's got to be around what thousand?

47:24>> What's that? I mean, I'm I'm I'm just guessing. I'm guessing about a thousand.

47:29>> Oh, yeah. East Palestine itself, I'd be surprised if it were that. Yeah.

47:34>> Yeah. So, that's that's pretty huge.

47:37That's pretty huge.

47:37>> It is huge. And >> that's not the only issue. I mean, there's nodules on the lungs. You have eight-year-old girls who are starting to menrate. You have um little boys bleeding when they urinate. I mean, like, not to be graphic, and I hate to, you know, say stuff like that, but this is what our government does to us and then ignores us when we're like, um, this is actually completely inhumane and it's, you know, it's um, eugenics of the poor essentially. You guys are, you know, rural, you're poor, you're expendable, whatever. Deal with it.

48:19>> Yeah. notice, you know, they they kept insisting it was safe to go back home.

48:22And so, no, you can go back home. It's no worries. Well, what are we going to do? What are we going to build housing for all these people? Well, you had no problem building housing for people when the housing was in the form of an ice jail. No, you build ice jails all over the country. We can house as many people as as we need to. Uh give people beds to uh to to lay on uh so that they can wait until it's safe to move back home. No, can't can't do that. Of course, it's uh it's again just another really terrible story. And and um you know one of the things that jumps out when you read a new study like this is you know

48:53unfortunately uh the nature of these things especially you know public health stories is it takes so many years to get reliable data on the effects of these things that by the time you do they've kind of come and gone from the news cycle. So it's it's difficult to to get eyeballs on these stories by the time you really know enough uh to get a full picture. Um, but that's that's the situation here. And so, you know, you have uh been very very steadfast in in your work around this story and um obviously it's it's always great to talk to you. Before we wrap, can you just tell people where they can

49:33follow you?

49:34>> Yeah. Um on X I'm SavageJoy Marie One.

49:40Um I do have a Facebook mainly for family and stuff, so I'm not very busy there. Um, but my YouTube, um, you can also just type in joy man or savagejoy.

49:53Um, yeah. And then my book, Amazon.com or Barnes & Noble.com.

50:00>> That's right. The book is our friend Teigan, the wrongful conviction of Teigan Kenzu, which we covered thoroughly in a separate clip, but you could find that uh at Barnes &Oble.com.

50:10Savage Joy Marie Man, great to see you again, my friend. Always a pleasure.

50:14Thanks so much for joining us. you as well. Thanks so much. And I know you said you're you're covering spoiler uh force the vote, a little thing on that.

50:24And I just want to say thank you, Jimmy, because of that. That quite literally changed my life. I was the disabled speaker for the town hall for the um and it was like 122,000 views that night.

50:42Um, and I spoke at the protest and I was so involved with that and it just changed my life as far as being a disability advocate. So, yes, force the vote.

50:55>> All right. Well, great to hear. Thanks for Thank you for sharing that.

50:59Appreciate that. And, uh, great to see you as always. Thanks so much.

51:02>> Thanks so much. You, too.

51:04>> Okay. Bye-bye.

51:06All right. That's Savage Joy Marie man.

51:09I'm going to take a couple of chats and then we're going to take a little break to bring in Kurt Mezer. Kurt Mezer is just back from Iran. Uh, hope you had a good time at the funeral. Just kidding, Kurt. Don't want to get you into no trouble. That was one of them jokes I make. Uh, so many reasons, says RDW. Why defund the police makes sense. These types of cases should never happen.

51:32There you go. Uh, Roger Meadows. I wish Dems were tough on crime. White collar crime. Thank you, Roger Meadows. Indeed, Matthew, thanks for $5 for the Katon mullet fund. You want me to grow You want me to grow a mullet? That takes a lot of maintenance. I I don't usually maintain my hair enough to grow a mullet because then I'd have to keep the top short and then just grow a little squirrel tail at the back, right? Seems like a lot of work, but hey, one $5 donation at a time. And maybe I'll think about it. Uh Chiliop Hangle Frat, thanks for the $50. That's a nice donation. Uh, really got to seize the opportunity to

52:07dress up as Joe Biden for Halloween this year. Also, good for East Palestine to get more coverage. Yeah, Joy has been on that case from the beginning. She's made five trips there uh herself. Um, all right, it looks like that's all we got in the chat department for now. We'll take a quick break and we'll be back with Kurt Mezer.

53:30>> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Hey, [music] [music] hey, hey.

55:33>> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> All right, we're back Here we're back.

57:27Thanks everybody very much. Going to bring in Kurt Mezer over here. Nice digs. What's up, Kurt?

57:35>> Oh, do you like my new place? It's nice, right?

57:37>> Yeah. Nice. Nice new place. Is is is that the Ayatollah's uh guest house there? He put you up nice. You treat well out there.

57:44>> This is a condo in in uh border of Gaza.

57:49>> Oh, a little uh real estate on the side. No.

57:53>> Yeah. Just just just uh east of the yellow line there, right?

57:58>> Yeah. By pretty soon over it.

57:59>> Yeah. Yeah.

58:01>> When one of Jared Kushner's new complexes there, >> you know, Jared >> keeping warm, you know? Yeah.

58:08>> You got beautiful place in Albania, too.

58:10You got to see Albania.

58:11>> Yeah. Yeah. I hear they're having some >> Yeah. They got flamingos there. I hear they're having a problem out there with the riff raff, you know.

58:18You know, it's like uh Trump's daughter can't discover a new island while swimming anymore.

58:22>> I know. I know. The problem is, you know, people are jealous. You know, there's there's there's there's a lot of jealousy, a lot of resentment, a lot of class warfare nowadays. How was your Fourth of July? Did you spit on any communists on the 4th of July?

58:36>> I did buy in Texas.

58:37>> I did buy barbecue in the Texas way.

58:40>> There you go.

58:41>> Do you like Fourth of July or as uh dogs call it, the end of the world?

58:45[laughter] >> Yeah, right. Yeah, I know. It's animal cruelty is what it is.

58:49>> The number of lost dogs right now because my girl just found a dog. We're trying to trace its lowjack to see. I think it got abandoned. But like the fireworks scare the hell out of them. So the the it's raised like super high right now the day after 4th of July because dogs freak out and just run into the >> Oh yeah.

59:07>> It's crazy.

59:08>> Yeah. No, I bet. I bet. Pretty crazy stuff. Well, we got some stories that we're going to get into uh tonight.

59:16Welcome to the Jimmy Door Show everybody. Keon Weiss here with Kurt Mezer filling in for Jimmy. It's a sad day for me. It's a sad day for me because I really thought I was going to get another I don't know 36 years out of my Graham Platner voice, you know.

59:31Graham Platner.

59:32>> Now, is Graham Platner the one with the weird tattoo who's a Democrat?

59:36>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

59:38>> Okay.

59:38>> Exactly. Yeah. They they pulled him off the front lines of Ukraine and thought they could make him a senator apparently. Was he really in Ukraine or or >> No, I'm just saying that because he's got a Nazi tattoo, right?

59:49>> Oh, wait. Yeah, he got That's right. He got that. Didn't he get it in Ukraine or something?

59:53>> Yeah, he should have. He should have. He He would have gotten a lot more mileage out of it if he got [laughter] he got it in Ukraine. You don't want to get a Nazi tattoo in uh you know uh you know, bum Virginia. That's no good. If you're going to get a Nazi tattoo somewhere, you got to get it in Ukraine. Uh but uh Politico comes out with the bombshell today. Okay, so if you were on Twitter around 2:00 in the afternoon, you saw some rumblings that there was going to be a big story. He had cancelled some campaign appearances. And so here it is.

60:21Boom. Exclusive. Woman who dated Graham Platner says he sexually assaulted her.

60:27So we're going to read through this. A woman >> Hey, is my mic better? Wait, wait, one second. Is my mic better? Cuz uh I guess I was using my >> sound okay now.

60:36>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you sound like it was it on the other thing. I just got a note. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I just want to check for you. Got it. Dig into this sweet story. [laughter] >> Exactly.

60:48>> A woman who dated main US Senate candidate Graham Platner says he forced her to have sex with him nearly 5 years ago despite her repeated objections. An allegation Platner denies. The woman, a 41-year-old Maine resident named Jenny Racicott, detailed the alleged incident to Politico in three interviews over the past two weeks. I think that's how you say it her name. Raakott. You know, I always feel like there's pressure to get a name right when the person's been in the news long enough, but she's only been in the news a few hours. So, if I get, >> you know, seeen as how I'm ignoring the Epstein files, uh, I don't think she got

61:22a good shot. [laughter] >> See as how I'm totally overlooking the evidence from the Epstein files like a jerk off, this should be a real humdinger.

61:30>> Yeah. Politico also spoke with a man Rayakott dated and confided in the years after the alleged incident and reviewed documents including emails between Rayott and her therapist and messages between Rayott and an acquaintance whom she warned against getting involved with Platner years before he ran for office.

61:49Rayott said she said uh she had an on andoff relationship with Platner, who is now the Democratic Senate nominee in Maine for more than two years before he entered her rural Maine home uninvited one night in late 2021, deeply intoxicated and forced himself on her while she repeatedly told him to stop.

62:07She said she cut off contact with him after telling him the encounter was not consensual. I remember him grabbing my pelvis and being really forceful of me, she said. I remember the specific moment where I thought to myself like this is no longer my choice. Platner denied the allegations. These allegations are troubling, serious, and false. Any accusation of non-consensual behavior is categorically untrue.

62:31>> Why do you have to say categorically?

62:33That doesn't, you know.

62:35>> Yeah. Categorically is one of the most overused words in the English language, I think.

62:39>> But like does that that makes him less believable just using the word categorically untrue?

62:44>> Yeah, that's such a weird caveat. Like I don't even understand why you say it.

62:48What is that supposed to mean? Maybe I'm just dumb.

62:50>> Yeah, I I don't know. I mean, this behavior, any accusation of non-consensual behavior is is untrue.

62:56You don't need the word categorically, right?

62:57>> So, in the category of true and untrue, this would be in the c in the section of untrue.

63:02>> Categorically, yes, this is in the untrue section. Yes. Yeah, exactly.

63:05>> There's something weird about that.

63:06Well, I don't know. I mean, >> no, he's toast. He's toast. He's He's done. He's done. This this this gets this get this gets pretty bad. Rayakott previously described reckless and unsettling behavior by Platner to the New York Times, but says she didn't go public with the specific assault claim because she didn't want to be known as a rape victim. will say here. Rayakott said she later felt compelled to go public about her experience because the reaction to the Times story was dominated by controversy about another woman, Lindseay Fefield, who alleged Platner mistreated her and faced attacks because of her ties to the Republican

63:42party. Contacted by Politico, Fifffield stood by the allegations she made to the Times and declined to comment further.

63:48Now, to be clear, Ffield never never alleged that he sexually assaulted her or anything. Uh, that seemed like a completely manufactured Zionist hit piece. I covered that pretty extensively on on our show.

64:02>> The Ffield one.

64:03>> Uh, yeah, the Ffield one. Yeah. Yeah.

64:06She was being coached by Bethany Mandel, one of the most notorious Zionist freaks online. Uh, >> is she related to Howie?

64:14>> [laughter] >> I don't believe so >> because I they say that about Howie as well.

64:18>> Field was one of the women for Kavanaaugh. Like she defended Kavanaaugh on basically the same grounds that she was going after Platner. Like that definitely seemed like like a hit job.

64:29And my position at the time was that this is obviously a coordinated smear, which both things could be true. Like there could have been a coordinated smear against this guy and also this accusation uh could be credible. That's what it seems like to me. I thought he was the one that was like the um Apac guy. No, I thought I I thought when he first popped out we were covering him because he had some weird Nazi tattoo and he was like the Apac hot pick. But maybe I'm remember >> No, no, the AP pack hot pick was the one he was running against. So they recruited Janet Mills. Chuck Schumer got Janet Mills to run against him.

65:04>> That's right. Yeah, exactly.

65:05>> And Jimmy, like they want to win. Why are they go Yes. Okay. Now, >> yeah. So, he was the anti-APAC guy, which means I mean, if you're running if you're an anti-APAC guy and you have this kind of in your past, you have to know they're going to dig it up on you. Like, it's incredibly reckless and stupid to think that you're going to be able to run for Senate and this is not going to come out. And apparently, this accusation is years old. It's not like this woman just came out of nowhere and is telling a story.

65:31There's documentation that she had told this to other people before he even decided to to run for office. Why was he chosen to run by whichever oligarchs control main? Like why was he chosen for that?

65:42>> That I don't know. I don't know what kind of uh clout the oyster shucking lobby has up there. But uh I guess that's something we'll have to probably a lot actually.

65:51>> I mean there's going to be a lot of stories about that now. It's going to be that's going to be a subject of of inquiry.

65:56>> Steiff laws on lobster traps. Stealing lobster.

65:59>> Yeah, exactly. [laughter] >> Don't steal lobster.

66:03>> Yeah. Uh, my part of the story, Sweet Caroline's going to be the official song of Maine. That's one of their their big demands. [laughter] My part of the story was just a readover, Race Accot said in an interview. And the story was Lindsay and the accusations of her being politically motivated. Rayott said she was torn over coming forward in part because she agrees with Platner politically.

66:27Well, one of the reasons I didn't come forward, I could have made a very mean joke there, but I won't. I'm gonna I'm gonna if it's not my show, so I'm I'm gonna spare Jimmy the the backlash.

66:38[laughter] >> I thought of it.

66:40>> Let's consider it. I've never once done that.

66:42>> Yeah, I know. That's not really your style, but I'm going to I'm going to be a good guess.

66:46>> Well, I probably that's what you should do.

66:48>> Yeah. [laughter] Uh, one of the reasons I didn't come forward sooner was the huge moral conflict that I had between supporting his politics but not supporting him as a person. She said, "I just want the truth out there. I just want people to have a whole scope of who he is as a person. In the weeks after the alleged assault, Rayakott said she considered going to the police, but struggled with shock and confusion about what had happened to her and did not file a police report. Even as time passed, she said she felt uncomfortable potentially telling a police officer about such a personal experience and feared retaliation from

67:22Platner. At first, she confided only in her therapist, who she continues to see.

67:26Politico also spoke with a friend Ray Sicata told about the alleged assault last summer shortly after Platner launched his campaign. The friend to whom Politico granted anonymity due to fear of social and professional backlash recalled Rayakott telling her about the incident, including that Platner had been quote very drunk and wouldn't take no for an answer. Rayakott said she was contacted by the New York Times in the spring and shared off the record that Platner had assaulted her. She told the Times that she had some positive memories of her relationship with Platner, but thought he did not respect

68:02women and had cut off contact with him after an incident in 2021 when Platner had come over drunk. But the Times article stated that Rayakott declined to elaborate about what had happened, only describing his behavior as reckless and unsettling.

68:19>> Yeah. On MS Now last month after the New York Times report, Platner denied claims that he had physically mistreated women.

68:26"Anything alleging physicality, anything alleging that I knew what my tattoo was, these are the statements of somebody who's politically motivated," he told MS Now, alluding to unrelated allegations about a tattoo resembling a Nazi symbol.

68:39Platner had the tattoo resembling a Nazi symbol covered up last fall and said he had not known what the symbol meant.

68:45Rayakott said she was bothered by Blatner's public denial that he had been physical towards women. I know that he is capable of putting his hands on women, she said, so I don't believe that to be the truth. Rayakott also shared details about the alleged assault to the man she dated after Platner, who she began dating in 2022. The man who was granted anonymity out of concern for his personal privacy told Politico that Raceott had told him in bits and pieces about a bad experience with Platner before confiding the full details of what had happened in 2023. His account of what Rayott told him about the

69:19incident matched what Rayakott told Politico.

69:24Rayakott shared with Politico a series of private Facebook messages she exchanged with an acquaintance in 2023 about a year and a half after the alleged assault and well before Platner launched his political career in which she cautioned the acquaintance against getting involved with Platner. In the messages Rayott said she had quote ended up in a bad situation with him describing Platner as consensually careless and saying he doesn't listen to you when drunk. reached by Politico. The acquaintance said she received the messages but declined to comment.

69:56Politico granted her anonymity at her request to protect her privacy in her main community. So yeah, that is what gives these some credibility is the fact that she talked about this before he ever decided to run for office. It's not as though these allegations just surfaced right now. Um, so here is Graham Platner coming out with a statement where he essentially walks right up to the line of withdrawing his candidacy.

70:27>> Address the troubling, serious, and false allegations against me. Any accusation of non-consensual behavior is categorically false.

70:37>> Over the last 10 months, I have been deeply humbled by the faith Mayers have put in me. You have welcomed me into your homes.

70:45>> Just not humbled enough not to quit before this came out. That would have been really humble. I'm not that humble.

70:51Not that humble.

70:51>> I mean, yeah.

70:53>> Go ahead.

70:54>> I swear on the toteen cop on my right arm that I did not [laughter] your places of work, your restaurants, and your houses of worship. You have shown that a different kind of politics, one that puts the interests of people over corporations, is not just possible, but is inevitable.

71:15This movement we have built, the largest volunteer base in the history of Maine politics. The >> turns out it was all for nothing. Never mind.

71:24>> Hundreds of thousands of grassroots donors and the [clears throat] supporters across the ideological spectrum. We reunite down the toilet, a love of Maine, a belief that our politics must change and a focus on defeating Susan Collins. So regardless of the inaccuracy of the reporting, but mindful the political reality it will inflict, we are taking the time to reflect on the best path forward for the state that I love, the people that I love, the movement I belong to, and the goal of defeating Susan Collins.

71:55>> Yeah. Even though I didn't do it. That's like in the Sopranos when uh they they they mean to whack Phil Leotardo and they they kill the wrong guy. Silio comes to Tony says Paulie takes full responsibility but he says he didn't do nothing. [laughter] >> That's like what this is.

72:12>> By the way, categorically false >> didn't do nothing.

72:14>> I I was dumb. Categorically false means there's not a single part of her story that's true is what that actually means.

72:19I >> mean entirely.

72:21>> That's right. There's no >> fancy way of saying entirely. Oh, okay.

72:25All right.

72:25>> Yeah. Um, I don't listen, I I could go either way. It's very hard to tell because clearly this guy had a I don't know what his deal was from the start.

72:36There was something funny about him, but he's there's clearly somebody out to get him because of a tape pack.

72:40>> Well, yeah.

72:42>> So, if they can find something, if there is something on you, they're going to dig it up.

72:46>> Right. That's what I mean. Even if it is questionable, like even if you can't know for sure, like there's there's clearly there was clearly enough there where you had to know that this was going to be completely debilitating to your campaign going in.

73:01>> Well, everybody in this punk ass country >> for a year and a half. Yeah. Yeah.

73:04Exactly.

73:05>> This punk ass country forgot about the Epstein files like almost immediately.

73:09>> Well, hey, this why not take a shot?

73:12>> I guess you figure I mean there's going to this is going to be studied for a long time. how people in the Epstein files are able to skate, but some others are are not, right? Like, how's Donald Trump and Bill Clinton, they're they're they're just a they they have a certain teflon quality, and then there there are others who don't. Like, I I don't have an answer to that. I I really don't. I don't think anybody has a full answer to that at this point. But clearly, this is this is curtains for him. He's he's done.

73:41>> Those were the goals when we launched this campaign, and they remain my goals today. On June 9th, 154,058 mayors, the most in primary history, voted to reject a broken politics beholden to Washington and the donor class. They voted for hope, for change, to take back our economy, to take back our power, and to take back our Senate seat. Throughout it all, you never turned your back on me, and I will not turn my back on you now. Every one of you deserves to see that vision come to fruition and see Susan Collins defeated.

74:21And we will use every tool at our disposal to do so.

74:24>> As Maine goes, >> so goes the nation.

74:28>> Wait, as always, thank you.

74:31>> Did he say as Maine goes, so goes the nation.

74:33>> I guess that's a phrase up there. I guess that's a phrase up there. Uh, in >> Never heard that one. I've been to Maine. Is that cuz Stephen King's popularity as a writer? I guess.

74:41>> Yeah. I don't know. I've never heard that one either, but apparently that's his like trademark sign off.

74:46>> Well, this is the thing. This is the thing. Uh they apparently have a week to figure out who is going to replace this guy as he uh reflects. So Ryan Grim says Graham Platner here strongly suggests he is considering dropping out already.

74:59Troy Jackson and Shelley Pingry, both gubernatorial candidates, are being kicked around in main circles as potential replacements.

75:09uh drop out by 5:00 p.m. July 13th and replacement is named by 5:00 p.m. July 27th. So there's exactly one week uh before he uh you know must officially drop out, which I guarantee you he will.

75:23Uh now odds of Democratic US Senate Graham Platner dropping out surged to 38%. That's now way higher uh than that.

75:32I'm sure as of now [clears throat] this was hot off of the press. I'm sure this is getting close to 100% since that statement was made and uh there was some foreshadowing. Now remember in the political story they say that the New York Times which had the original story which I think was the sort of Zio hit piece uh that they had heard from this person and so it is possible that they knew more than they were letting on at the time not necessarily uh about the specifics of the allegations. But you look at this question here uh in a bit of a different light now when the interviewer gives him a chance. Hey, is

76:08there something new you want to get ahead of? He is going to dig up everything >> um and more that they can.

76:16>> Yeah. And probably lie at some point.

76:19[laughter] >> Is there something new you want to get ahead of?

76:22>> No. I mean like we've I've been I've lived my life. I like I've been there for the whole thing and it's and >> Right.

76:31>> So yeah. So no. Now in terms of replacement, I do have I do have a little bit of a a scoop to report myself. Kamla Harris spotted in Red Sox hat eating lobster and corn on the cob.

76:42Yeah, she's always loved Maine. She's >> Looks like it's gonna be [laughter] uh >> Yeah, >> looks like it's gonna work out just fine.

76:49>> My heart has always been in Maine. My heart has always been in Maine. I told Willie Brown, "Take me to Maine." He said, "Bitch, are you crazy? I'm not going to Maine."

76:58>> She's a for real MK Ultra Canada by way of Canada uh uh Manurion. Come up. She's been the whole [laughter] time. You haven't heard about it now.

77:07>> [clears throat] >> uh should try to put her in there in uh Maine. Yeah. I don't know if it'll be Janet Mills or one of these governor's candidates, but that's a major L. That is a major L. And that is a that is a huge up. Like you said, Kurt, whether the allegations are true or not, um there was there was a lot of writing on the wall uh that there was stuff out there and you know, at the time, >> why? Because of one Nazi tattoo.

77:32[laughter] >> Exactly. Hey, >> I would have dismissed Ukraine if that >> tattoo. Yeah, exactly.

77:39>> Yeah. Well, he Dude, he that like you know to get the toteen cop from off the SS hats. That's the one he had.

77:46>> What was I don't I forget what the symbol was.

77:49>> SS the skull and crossbones.

77:51>> Yeah, the skull and crossbones. Yeah.

77:52Yeah. Yeah.

77:53>> Okay.

77:53>> See, I I mean Yeah. I mean what it was.

77:57You think that was iconic? I didn't know what that was.

77:59>> Oh, I knew what it was, but Kanye West fans, you know. No.

78:04But I mean, >> I got it at a Kanye concert >> to get It's just a strange thing of like I was I would have guessed Maine doesn't have a huge um Zionist Jewish population just because if you skated on the toteen cop >> Yeah.

78:18>> the Pets head tattoo. They probably don't care. You know what I mean? Like I don't know why he wouldn't be blaming something Israel with this or a pack.

78:26That seems like a great way. Well, I mean, I think at this point, I mean, look, it it seems to me like based on his answer there, based on his doing the basically the Paulie Walnuts defense, which is, hey, sorry, but I didn't do nothing. Um, you know, it sounds like he knows he did it. Like, if if you didn't do it, you should just trump your way through. Just power through. Just say, hey, it's a hit job. I didn't do anything. I'm staying in. If you're going up there and you're talking like that, that means there's probably truth to those those allegations and he knows he's done because at the time the first

79:03New York Times piece came out, the people who had endorsed him, the people who had gone to bat for him and doubled down on their endorsement after that saying this was basically a smear, which made sense at the time and like you can only live in the present, right? You you can't see into the future. um that seemed like the right move, but they all said, "Hey, look, if anything comes out where this guy's credibly accused of being violent with someone or or something like that, we're out." And now they're all out. I mean, Ro Connor has come out and said he's out. Ruben Ggo, all these endorsers are out. He's done.

79:31He's he's completely this up.

79:33Susan Collins, I'm telling you, man, you take that woman to Vegas because she has some kind of luck. I mean, she's not been popular for many, many years, but she keeps winning. She keeps winning.

79:42from an old family named Collins that's from the area by any chance because I'll bet you that has nothing to do with that.

79:47>> Could be main royalty. Who the hell knows? Who the hell knows?

79:50>> Collins. You ever saw Dark Shadows?

79:53>> No. [snorts] >> The 70s series and the one with Johnny Depp is is based [clears throat] on the real people the Collinses that were at the New England like witch families that that's their big claim to fame. So when that show >> a witch, >> it's just like it's just like my friend Khloe from News for Women, the Le Branch house in in Louisiana >> where some great hint just chained a chick up and left her up there to starve like her wife her husband's side piece and just left it there. They didn't discover she died.

80:19These old ass families are firmly entrenched in everything, especially in in a local ass place like Maine where it's like real almost like Hawaii in terms of we Maine's for mayors and we like we don't like out you know like how it's like a island in a way they love Bob Marley not the singer I mean no Bob Marley but I mean that's like the ultimate comic to them that's there is if they were Hawaiian >> you know it makes sense it makes sense that she would be a witch because she's not been popular but she keeps winning elections maybe that's the story maybe Susan Collins the witch.

80:50>> Yeah, there's a lot of coaches that are old money but not necessarily you are but I'm just curious because that's the the area and then like a person who's not popular but they always win like Gavin Newsome.

81:00>> Gavin Newsome shouldn't have won that recall. I don't think he should have won that. I think there was something up and uh he skates on everything but his family's one of the four families that ran California as per Chinatown. If you ever saw Chinatown.

81:12>> Oh yeah. Well yeah of course I saw Chinatown. Yeah.

81:15>> Wow. Wow. So, it's a shame he made that video before talking to you. He should have consulted with you. He would have he would have taken a much more defiant tone.

81:24>> One time I bought weed off of >> Susan Collins or the witch. These allegations are false. Been by a witch.

81:30The witch.

81:30>> That's that's local rule area. Do you know what I mean? So that's like >> you're getting in because you're the most local ass local guy. And if he's populist >> and especially what was he he was digging clams or what would he do for >> oysters? Oysters.

81:43>> Yeah. So that's somebody I could see being real popular. They're not just going to accept some thing about that's like, okay, five years later, I still I'm an oyster guy. I know that guy. I mean, I don't know his policy, but but I'm just saying if I'm into him like that, you think I'm a 5-year-old thing that the New York Times says I'm going to go against him.

82:01>> I got my business in my family. I can't give a Yo, I just found out they eat kids. What am I going to do?

82:07>> Bring the oysters in.

82:08>> It's a good point then. That's a good point. Maybe Tucker can look into it. He lives in Maine.

82:12>> He could do curious. I mean, I >> is Graham Platner a rapist or is Susan Collins a witch?

82:17>> There's something oddball about it with the Totenov tattoo where I was like, nobody in the middle.

82:22>> Well, he's definitely a strange guy. I mean, the guy is definitely a up guy. I mean, when you look at his bio, he's he talks about PTSD and alcoholism and all that. I mean, the guy was definitely a flawed guy. I don't think there's any question about that. Uh, you know, as a as a self-hating Jew, I don't really care about the Nazi tattoo, to be honest.

82:43>> [laughter] >> It's kind of a turn on to me, but other people they don't like it. [laughter] >> I could see how some others might be offended by it, but it personally it's not a huge deal to me.

82:54>> Not necessarily.

82:55>> I mind my own business. I don't bother people. Nobody bothers me.

83:01I'm a steal Jew. I'm coming from the long tradition of steett Jews. We keep our heads down. We don't like the look of a tattoo. We don't have to look at it. That's it. That's how we handle look.

83:11>> [laughter] >> Just go over this way. [laughter] >> Yeah, exactly.

83:19>> That's why the Israelis despise you.

83:22>> Your asthma and your sensitivities are >> disgusting to the robust.

83:29[laughter] >> Exactly. Graham Platner, we hardly knew you. I was looking forward to doing your voice for 36 years. You could run as many times as you want in the Senate and uh gone before it started. He's probably the least up guy that ran for office ever in Maine. Honestly, I think that's true if you looked into it.

83:46>> Yeah, probably true. Too bad. [laughter] >> All right, let's move right on along.

83:51What do we got over here? We got some Rumble Rants and some super chats. So, I thought that Miesa had uh sent the same one four times, but apparently the same chat has been sent four times for $50 each. That's very generous of generous of you, Chili Ople frat.

84:05>> Oh, it does Grant Bladner.

84:07>> Yeah. like hey man I don't live in Maine I'd be like [laughter] yeah do what I can for you chilling out hangle frat really got to seize the opportunity to dress up as Joe Biden for Halloween this year also good for East Palestine to get more coverage thank you for that generous donation Roger Meadows says Ohioans can take SB78HB289 which replaced the Ohio private insurance system with a governmentr run universal plan that sitting on the shelf and gathering dust and run that as a ballot measure amendment. Roger Meadows knows all about the ballot measures.

84:45That's your cause out there. Thanks, Roger. Chili Hangler says, "Kerp, I'm going to read Clock Shavings. Any other recommended books?"

84:53>> Oh, I you know what? I haven't read Clock Shaving. That's the one I have to get. I still have to get so let me know how it is, I guess. I uh But yeah, Michael Hoffman, Twilight Language.

85:01Michael Hoffman. I just had him on Derp with Kerp. And boy is that guy smart. He turned me around Thomas Jefferson. I was a little soured on old TJ. You know that.

85:09>> Oh yeah.

85:10>> But it turns out Franklin was the more of the creep historically [clears throat] if we're just looking at the facts than Jefferson. Jeffin Jessin.

85:17>> Do you know Thomas Jesterin believe believed in um he called the right to error meaning you're allowed to like like Alex Jones could have never been sued how he was. The founding fathers called it that the right to error. You know, they go, "Oh, dangerous me information." Like, >> that was intentional that you'd be allowed to. I mean, the rights of CNN and you know, the government have to lie.

85:39>> He should run for Senate in Maine, Thomas Jefferson. That'd be good. You need the right to air >> up in there. Grant Platner should invoke that. Get back.

85:46>> Another ginger, but would know that's had tattoos.

85:50>> I invoke the right to air. I reenter the race. Uh, Steve D. Bertram, Katon and Kurt. Too bad Kuryaku isn't on tonight.

85:59All right. Well, not too bad for us, you know. That's why we're watching us.

86:03>> Eio Shush, when this woman learned Platner might vote against vacuum bombs that would vaporize children, she had to muster up the courage to come out. Yeah, good call. Y >> I mean, look, it's a just the timing is awfully uh suspicious, but again, there's no way to tell. Uh uh you would think he would know about this ahead of time himself. This is why most people don't run for office because most people know there's something that's embarrassing. Even if it's not true, if you're going to go up against these people, they're going to come at you with everything they can find.

86:34>> Um, so if there's anything questionable, you you you can't do it if you think it's going to sink you. And I don't know what he was >> I don't know what he was thinking. Um, but you know, what are you going to do?

86:45Uh, all right. Welcome to the Jimmy Door Show, everybody. Katon Weiss here with Kurt Mezer whose July 4th weekends and communism was on the brain. That's right. In Independence Eve speech, Trump warns of communism then promotes one party rule reports common dreams.

87:04President Donald Trump spent his address to the United States the night before its 250th birthday, fear-mongering about the Communist menace and suggesting that his Republican party should govern the nation for a century. America will never be a communist country, he said from Mount Rushmore, South Dakota Friday night. We can only lose the midterms if we allow ourselves to lose the midterms.

87:26If we are foolish and stupid and unwise.

87:29>> Check. Check. Check.

87:30>> Yeah. [laughter] >> What the Okay.

87:34>> Yeah. His remarks clearly implied a false link between communism and the Democratic party and promoted a bill that critics say will make it harder for millions of eligible voters to participate in elections. That's of course the Save America Act, which claims to address the documented non-pro of non-citizen voting by requiring voters to show documents such as passports and birth certificates, which can be expensive and difficult to obtain, especially for lowincome voters.

87:59Such requirements would also impose added burdens on rural voters and married women who have changed their names. Well, they tend to be Republicans, but he's he's pretty confident that the Save America Act is uh just what the doctor ordered. So, here he is.

88:15>> [cheering] >> We can only lose the midterms if we allow ourselves to lose the midterms if we are foolish allow enough people to vote >> and unwise.

88:28>> But if we terminate the filibuster as we should do and immediately vote for the Save America Act, then we will not lose [cheering] an election for a hundred years.

88:43We do that, we're not going to lose an election for a hundred years.

88:47>> No, >> really.

88:49>> Before arguing for a hundred years of Republican rule, Trump continued the exaggerated anti-communist rhetoric he has employed in the weeks since progressive and Democratic socialist candidates won a series of Democratic primary victories.

89:02>> The DSA's been horseshit for quite some time now. So, don't worry uh right-wingers. It it's always been a compromise thing. That's when they had the don't clap, do this. So, don't clap.

89:12CIA gutting that thing from the inside out way back when went full in on CO shots full.

89:18>> That's what I said. They they're not even the the DSA are barely socialists, much less communists. Like >> it's another puppet show, man. It's by the way, you don't worry about communists. The people that are doing this are called Fabian socialists. And what they are are extremely rich, horrendous oligarchs that they're going to live like, you know, royalty and they're you're going to eat the bugs.

89:40That's what they are. They the wolf and sheep's clothing was their code of arms for many years. The fa they have a website and stuff still now, but Cecil Roads and all those other creeps were all Fabian Socialists, not communists.

89:50Fabian Socialists FSA specific >> FSA, Fabian Socialist of America. That's their their organization. Yeah.

89:57>> Right. Well, those ones are like not ironically in the open, so I kind of think they're just chumps.

90:02They call themselves like IBM, Apple, you know, >> you like Rockefeller was like a supposed Baptist, but he wanted new age socialism for the peons, >> right?

90:11>> Because they they when Steve Bannon talks about the popular, you know, populism, he's talking about how to treat the slaves. They're all in their head, they're like, "This is how do we corral the slaves?"

90:20>> It's a feudal system, right? Exactly.

90:23Exactly. There is now a resurgence of the communist menace in our land, including from newcomers to our country who embrace ideas totally opposed to our way of life and our great success. Yeah.

90:34Yeah, man. Just takes a few few victories in New York to ruin Fourth of July for everybody, right? So, what the Donald Trump completely detaches from reality, bizarrely claiming that communism is a bigger threat to America than World War I, World War II, Pearl Harbor, and 9/11 combined. Combined. So communism is an inside job, too.

90:55>> Yeah. Yeah. Another false flag. That's right.

90:57>> TR was also a staunch and ferocious opponent of a thing called communism.

91:03You've been hearing a lot about that lately. He said the doctrines of communistic socialism, if consistently followed, mean the ultimate annihilation of civilization.

91:16Other than that, he thought it was wonderful. Uh, >> as we're seeing now, communism is the greatest threat to our country, including I believe this. You know, when I said it, I said, "Boy, that's pretty severe." But I think it's true. It's the biggest threat to our country, including World War I, World War II, Pearl Harbor, September 11th. I think it's a a bigger threat, potentially a bigger threat than AIDS. What about AIDS? AIDS spreads. And you better stop it fast.

91:45We will never let the United States become a communist country.

91:49>> Great. That's the lowest bar by far I've ever heard set after a guy rug bold the country. But let me tell you what I guarantee. [laughter] >> Bro, this promise we'll keep. Just trust me.

92:02>> Don't say it, Trump, because we'll become communist like the next day.

92:05You're going by his current record.

92:07>> True. We're kind of lowering the bar there, right? That is a bit of a bit of a switcheroo, right?

92:12>> Never become a communist country. Are you about to do something that will make us become that, you piece of >> Are you about to ruin the economy more than you have?

92:21>> Well, you know, it's funny. I mean, we we talked about as he's been on this anti-communist tirade in the middle of this. He put out that tweet, remember?

92:29He's like, "Gas retailers better lower their prices. They're ripping off the American people." Well, what do you think? That's that's what a communist would say. That I mean, that's what they did. And so, you dude, you put price communists are put price.

92:42>> That's even got me. That's how good they are.

92:44>> They even got to me. Anybody can respond.

92:47>> Yeah. [laughter] In fact, the Democratic Socialists who won primary elections in New York City last month ran on a platform of affordable housing, Medicare for all, stronger unions, and an end to US military support for Israel's genocide in Gaza. Policies backed by large numbers of ordinary Americans.

93:03Trump's doubled down on an opposition between communism and US values. uh and also linked his anti-communist to his anti-immigrant stance, threatening to send communists into exile. And they tweeted out here, "You can be a communist or you can be a patriot. You cannot be both." And I was so exhausted by this.

93:24>> Sir, you've misspelled you've misspelled Zionist, sir.

93:27>> Yeah. Exactly. Well, yeah, that's one thing that that that's one thing, too.

93:31But I I I my reaction to this was, can I be neither? Can I be neither a communist nor a patriot? I wouldn't settle for that.

93:38>> No, you have to pick one.

93:40>> Gotta pick one spot. But you got to do it. You got to pick one.

93:44>> I would make a deal at neither. And I would say, you know, I'm not a communist for the same reason I'm not MAGA cuz I don't I don't like the idea of angry incelss with guns telling me what to do.

93:55>> Well, then you're low IQ loser.

93:56>> Then I'm a loser. I guess that just makes me a loser.

93:58>> Low IQ loser. You just got bogged.

94:01>> That's right. That's right. President Trump on communism. Here he goes. Going off now in Washington DC. So it was a twoight stint. A a twoight double bill anti-communist festival here on July 4th. Here he goes.

94:18>> Heroes.

94:19And after we vanquished fascism, Americans stood against the evil of communism in the Cold War. And as I said last night at the beautiful Mount Rushmore, what a beautiful place where Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and Theodore Roosevelt loomed over my shoulder as I spoke.

94:40America will never be a communist country. Won't happen. [cheering] Communism is a loser and it always will be. The communist system is the opposite of the American system and the communist system has never worked. Our warriors did not fight communism on battlefields across the world only to have that menace rear its ugly head right back here in America. We're not going to let it happen.

95:08>> Only to have a bunch of trans women in masks tell us that everybody needs health insurance.

95:18>> We like to stop a threat like that immediately and before it begins. It's like a cancer. You got to cut it out.

95:25You got to cut it out fast.

95:26>> Uh, >> tonight we proudly thank veteran >> what communism did he recently bust? I'm not clear on communism really hasn't been a relevant thing since uh Vosch's tax folder was seen >> on his show. So I don't what are you talking about communism? Like usually it's some Zionist when I hear like James Lindsay >> that shill for the Southern Baptist Convention, Fatso O Farerrell, whoever pays him. That's like that nonsense and they can keep focusing on communism and World War II issues.

95:57>> Well, it's all nonsense. I mean, it's all complete nonsense. Like we were like we were saying, the the DSA is barely a socialist organization, much less a communist organization. Like there's such illiteracy. Yeah. It's about Mandani. It's about these It's about these primary wins, right? Because the DSA slate done well. Basically had what?

96:15Three DSA endorsed candidates win primaries. If we've got to send Dave Portoi, >> we'll send Dave Portoy in in a heartbeat. [laughter] >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

96:25>> President Jake Paul.

96:29>> Well, now they know. I mean, now they know. Now they they they see a midterm strategy, right? I mean, this is this is a message. They always come up with some mcguffin right before the midterms to get the base riled up. In 2018, it was the immigrant caravan, right? The caravan's coming after election day.

96:46Literally not a word about the caravan ever again. Now it's communism.

96:50Communism. But it's so ill. I mean, it's unbelievable. Yeah. Trend. Yeah. Of course. All that All that you know.

96:57>> Yeah. They're almost always And by the way, all of them going back to like the Charlottesville Nazis, such as the crying Christopher Canwell Nazi, who you know makes gay porn, where it's like Jew and Nazi, gay porn. That's what he does now. Cuz they're all good.

97:11>> Yeah. All these groups.

97:13>> Yeah.

97:14>> I was thinking that. Wait. All they're all But why are they all gay? I realize because gays are attracted to theater because this horseshit is a big play.

97:22And who loves being in plays the most?

97:25Gay guys.

97:26>> That's what all this nonsense is.

97:28There's no >> It's all >> It's all gay. It's It's all very gay.

97:32It's It's very gay. I mean, this is this is all gay love for a caricature of an alpha male. That's what this movement has turned into. Yeah. It's camp. It's >> like John Waters is coming up with it.

97:43>> Yeah. No, it it it certainly is. It certainly is. But the spectre of commun I mean this is I mean it's also a generational thing. Like this is real.

97:53You know I hate to I hate to bring the Jimmy Door Show into this because whenever I talk about generational politics I get a lot of backlash but this is a boomer thing. Like this is this is something that boomers use to scare each other. And you would think in the 60 years that they've been freaking out about this, they would learn the first thing about what they're talking about. So like a program like Medicare for all is not a communist program. In order for it to be communism, you have to transfer the means of production >> from private business to the state.

98:25>> Look at Medicare for all is a singlepayer program where the government guarantees payment to who? To private businesses. You'd still have private pharmaceutical companies under Medicare for you. You'd still have private doctors. You'd still have private specialists. You'd still have private hospitals. You'd still have a largely privatized system. It's just that payment to those uh sectors would be guaranteed by the government as to ensure that people don't die because they can't afford medicine.

98:53>> Ready? Here's Ready for the rebuttal?

98:55>> Uh communism has never worked.

98:58>> There you go.

98:58>> But I'm still deathly afraid of it. The thing that has never worked once in history >> is my number one fear. And that's why whatever you just said that I didn't pay attention to because I am in sheer terror of communism. Creeping communism.

99:12The only reason people even think anything bad about Israel is obviously communism.

99:16>> I wonder where it was coming from. Now we I was afraid of secret Nazis, but it's actually secret communists.

99:20>> Secret communists. That's right. And they ruined the 4th of July. They ruined the 4th of July. That is the new message coming out >> of Independence Day weekend through November. And then uh hopefully after November, you won't hear about it ever again cuz Donald J. Trump will have vanquished them. Uh vanquish the the communist threats.

99:38>> You got to do it. You got to do it.

99:40They're everywhere. Nip it in everywhere.

99:42>> Nip it in the bud. Much like a law that requires me to release the Epstein files. Nip it in the bud.

99:49>> Exactly. All right. Uh V Nettles says, "Who's this Katon fella? Steph finally got a sign." Well, that's not nice. Just kidding. Great job posting, you call me bastard. Thank you, Vetles, Bob.

100:00>> I should go put on my communist hat, actually. Maybe take this cowboy hat off and join communism.

100:05>> That's right. You can >> Let me get my communist hat for the rest of us.

100:08>> There you go. There you go. Look at that. One segment too late, but hey, never too late. Pirate Justin says, "I think he's pronouncing Zionism wrong."

100:17Oh, look at that. You and Kirk thought of the same joke at the same time.

100:21That's how you know doing it right when you think of the same joke at the same time. All right. Uh we're going to uh move right on along here as soon as uh Kurt has his wardrobe changed. See, Kurt's got one of those fancy podcast chairs. You know, I never got a podcast chair. I don't know why. I don't know why. I probably should. It's one of those investments I know I should make, but I haven't done it yet. I used to do these on like a kitchen chair. That That was really brutal. That was really brutal. I couldn't get through them after a while. Um All right. Uh do we want to go to a a quick card while Kurt

100:54finds his hat and then we'll come right back?

100:57>> Oh, there. Oh, never mind. He's back.

100:58>> What? I just had to get my commie outfit for this.

101:00>> All right, there you go.

101:01>> I converted communism during that segment.

101:03>> That was a quick change. Yeah, won you over. See, that's so I know Trump is losing. He's got He has got no juice anymore.

101:09>> Commuse number one just won me over just now.

101:11>> I know. Just won you over just now. It's It's spreading.

101:14>> Spreading like a cancer. Spreading like a cancer.

101:17>> Didn't catch it fast enough. Nine more [laughter] weeks to live before communism.

101:22>> We were too late. Should have made that segment number two instead of segment number four. Oh, I'm really c predator now camo because this is a green.

101:31>> Yeah. Welcome to the Jimmy Door Show, everybody. Katon and Kurt here filling in for Jimmy. So, Donald Trump wants you to be really afraid of communism and socialism. That is his midterm uh message. And uh who agrees? Who agrees?

101:48Well, >> Benjamin Netanyahu agrees. That's right.

101:52is >> we I thought that they started out as kind of a leftwing thing. They have which is a communist farm, is it not?

102:00>> Uh you're talking about the uh kibbutim, which we're going to get to. Yes. Yes.

102:05It's a very it's a very sort of socialistoriented society. But uh hey uh Trump is BB's guy and so BB toes the party line here.

102:15America can try. Just try it. Try socialism. We tried it here. Didn't work that much. Oh, didn't I? I wish it hadn't. I wish it had.

102:24>> Now we pay all your bills. You move.

102:27>> Yeah, exactly.

102:28>> Communist people who know better, I would say, who should know better, but I think they all know better.

102:33>> And these people are let themselves be swept by these uh irrational u uh irrational protests and >> uh this these these uh uh you know this very uh toxic ideology. I don't think it lasts because I think America, you know, America can try it. Okay? You know, just try it. Try socialism.

102:53>> You know, we tried it. We tried it here.

102:54It didn't work that much. So, I I decided to try free markets. It worked a lot better.

102:59>> You know, Americans will eventually get that picture, too.

103:01>> Final word here.

103:02>> That's right. That's right. I tried free markets here. Worked a lot better.

103:06Unbelievable. Unbel I mean, >> wait. So, this is Okay. They've already on on the right right wing because, you know, they got to control both sides of the aisle obviously. So this is the pushing the lefties out that are anti-ionist just the way they're trying to do with the righties that are with that woke right nonsense they say. So this is just what this is is like we got to you know make the greater Israel Democrat and Republican project.

103:29>> Yeah. Well I think he's just you know Trump is his guy and so that's his message. He's going to back him up because that's his guy. If if the Democrats were more pro-Israel than Donald Trump he would just come on and say the trans women are women.

103:44trans men or men. My daughter has a big penis. Many of them are. You should see my daughter's penis. It's the best penis you've ever seen in >> poopic.

103:51>> Yeah. Like he would >> see men poopic.

103:53>> Exactly. He would say anything. Say anything. All he knows is where his bread is buttered. And if Donald Trump is uh laying it on thicker than anybody else, then he's going to say whatever he needs to say. This sounds a lot like democratic socialism to me. Observes Karina. The USA gives Israel more than $10 million every day. Israel has free health care and free college, but the USA doesn't because the USA can't afford it. That's right.

104:17>> It reminds me of uh racial socialism, aka, as the Germans called it, national socialism. That's what they meant by national. They meant racial.

104:25>> That's right. That's right. Mel says he's correct. Socialism doesn't work very well in an apartheid states. And 50 ways to eat ways to eat One of the best ones here. Uh, aren't free education and healthc care advocated by socialists? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Toxic ideology, try socialism. Israel runs on democratic socialism, universal health care, subsidized housing, and strong social programs. But as Kurt mentioned, is more like national socialism because it's kind of reserved for, you know, one group, you know. Yeah.

104:58>> Uh, the same templates the NYC mayor pushes. Funny how that works. Foson Capital says, "Don't be fooled by Netanyahu. He doesn't care about socialism. He cares that people in the progressive movement actually despise war crimes and the criminals that perpetuate it, like himself." BB realizes he cannot bully, bribe, or intimidate progressives. Well, you're talking about the handful of progressives who have won these primaries. And that is certainly who he's trying to demonize, not because he's against socialism, but because he's against them. Because he knows that they're against him. Yeah.

105:34>> You know what socialism is to him? To him, socialism is like the the IDF are not allowed to physically rape >> the teen male prisoners on camera anymore.

105:44>> That kind of outrage where you're going full leftwing crazy, not allowing IDF to wantingly >> grab and sexually assault anyone they want. That's called socialism to these people.

105:54>> Yeah, that's that's DEI. Uh but the [laughter] yeah but the the real irony here as Kurt mentioned just a little bit ago um the kibbut sim are basically these communes and it was those on the kibbut sim who were most affected by the violence on October 7th. A disproportionate number of Israeli civilians killed on October 7th were actually the socialists who lived on these kibbutim. Israeli kibbutim ravaged by October 7th attacks rebuild while honoring their past. So what is a kibbutim? I I hate to use this uh source here. Uh but just to make the point, what exactly is a kibutz? The kabutz [clears throat] operates under

106:39the premise that all income generated by the kabutz and its members goes into what? A common pool.

106:46>> The kibbutz operates under the premise that all income generated by the kabuts and its members goes into a common pool.

106:54This income is used to run the kabutz, make investments, and guarantee mutual and reciprocal aid and responsibility between members. Kabutz members receive the same budget according to family size regardless of their job or position. In terms of education, all children start equally and are given equal opportunity.

107:14Well, that sounds pretty socialist.

107:16These are communes. That is essentially what they are.

107:18>> He thinks Americans are the dumbest sacks of on the planet. Who can even argue with him? Who can argue with them? Well, you're right. You're right, Nate. You can't argue with results.

107:27>> No. When they talk about the atrocities of October 7th committed against Israeli civilians, they're talking about the socialists. They're because they disproportionately live in the south near the Gaza border, >> the ones that told to go there on purpose and then they did the Hannibal directive and they wiped out a whole bunch of nonlood voters. That that Yeah.

107:44Right.

107:44>> I think there's a lot of truth to that.

107:46I I know you made that point on the show in the past and I think you're right.

107:48Right. I mean, I think >> yeah, an inside job and yeah, that that was that that was part of it for sure.

107:55Um, but yeah, so when he talks about how socialism doesn't work, that that's what he's talking about. He is denigrating the victims of he's he's denigrating the victims of of October 7th. So, here's Benjamin Netanyahu denigrating the victims of October 7. Socialists. Yeah.

108:10>> Lost his kabuts.

108:11>> People know better.

108:12>> Yeah.

108:12>> I would say who should know better, but I think they all know better. And these people are let themselves be swept by these uh irrational u uh irrational protests and uh these these >> you know this very uh toxic they just happen to not like I don't think it lasts because I think America you know America can try it you know just try it try socialism final >> you know we tried it we tried it here it didn't work that much so I I decided to try free markets it worked a lot better >> oh free markets worked okay so you don't have uh universal healthare anymore in Israel. That's news to me. I didn't know

108:47that.

108:47>> Well, free like we pay for this Wait, did he ban kabutim?

108:53>> I don't think he banned kabutim. No, >> they still have kabuts there.

108:56>> Of course. Of course. Yeah.

108:57>> Well, that's weird. So, I guess it did work just fine for them. Yeah.

109:00>> Outside of taking our money for the other >> Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly. Yeah. No, they they they still exist. I remember when when Bernie ran for president, uh Michael Bloomberg when he got in the race, he made fun of Bernie. He says, you know, uh, he'll turn the country into a kabutz, you know. Uh, [laughter] >> I miss those days of the interc, you know, inter mural Jewish fighting of of uh where you really heard them whip out old words.

109:27>> Yeah. Yeah. Those were simpler time butch this Yeah.

109:30>> Yeah. Those were those were more innocent times. Those were in more more innocent times. But no, that's Benjamin Netanyahu just saying what he feels he has to say. Yeah.

109:38>> Uh in in the moment. I guarantee you, I guarantee you if the socialists were uh uh kinder to Israel than the Republicans, like for example, if if the so-called woke Reich uh gets a candidate uh in office, uh you know, if if if Thomas Massie runs for president in uh 2028 against like a Democratic socialist, I don't think that's the way it's going to shake out, but let's just do a thought experiment and say it's Thomas Massie versus AOC.

110:10or something like that. I'm pretty sure Netanyahu would back AOC in that race, right? They say a lot about socialism, but they don't tell you anything about, you know, [laughter] I I read Atlas Shrugged once. I said, "How's this going to work?" You know, >> well, you forget >> John G. Who cares about John? John G. That's what I say.

110:30>> Look, communism has never worked except in Vietnam where they won that war and they're communist to this day and they're fine, right? And that's why they don't come up, >> right? Exactly.

110:40>> Oh, and North Korea that beat us.

110:42Remember, they don't come up ever again.

110:44>> Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

110:45They do have a couple of W's that that they've wrapped.

110:48>> I heard they're doing better now. Now that they got a nuke, >> but there's there's there's reports now that the North Korean North Korea is doing economically uh pretty well.

110:57>> A much lower suicide rate than South Korea. That's strange.

111:01>> Maybe it's because uh all those lights on at night in South Korea, people don't get good enough sleep. I don't know.

111:06>> Yeah, >> I don't know.

111:07They show with Korea with natural sleep patterns from not having lights in their face.

111:13>> Will anyone help those people?

111:15>> Who will intervene on their behalf? Good question. All right, what do we got over here? We got, excuse me, uh, let's see.

111:24Misha texted me some super chats over here. Roger Meadows says, "Try care is a commie health care plan available only to active duty soldiers and they love it.

111:34>> Dare you to find a libertarian vet who hail?" Well, that's another thing they don't want to talk about.

111:40>> You know, military, that's all that's all government created work. Government created demand.

111:46>> How about all of DC where where people when the government shut down to avoid releasing the Epstein files? That's why they that's why Mike Gay Johnson did that. Uh I'm in Arlington Draft House making a joke. I got you guys had a hard day redacting Epstein files. Like four or five people laughed really hard because they they were >> Oh, yeah.

112:04>> They were doing that. So all these people that work there, the whole town runs on government jobs and that's like being a a you know a public notary on the side redacted some Epstein files while the government shut down. But then like do you redact your eyes too because you've read? So there's all these people that know what's in there too but that's their public works job of covering it up and they're just going to live with that I guess forever. It's just filled with scum dude. DC is just the most repulsive place on earth. It really is.

112:32>> Uh yeah. No no doubt about that. No doubt about that. Rough business. Rough business in that town. Uh no, no doubt about it.

112:40>> Uh all right, let's take a look. What do we got here? Let me just see. All right, one more. All right, we're going to do one more segment, then we're going to switch over to Rumble for the remainder of the program. All right, welcome to the Jimmy Door Show, everybody. Katon and Kurt here with Jimmy away. This is a segment that I know the Jimmy Door Show audience is going to appreciate. Uh, so in the wake of the DSA victories in New York and then one in Colorado, Briana Joy Gray had Daniel Denver, DSA Alliance uh podcaster uh on to question the strategic uh maneuvers of the DSA in terms of their decision to work within the

113:27Democratic party. And so she brings him on and uh here's a sampling of how it goes. Let's take a look.

113:37>> A third party, what you're doing is fighting to establish and maintain a ballot line. In terms of a party, we do need a labor party. We do need a socialist party. And I would argue that NYCA is by far the most advanced along in that process. They're using the Democratic Party ballot line, but they exercise more organizational power, more discipline um over their organizational practices and elected officials at the city and state and now federal level than than any political party in this country.

114:19>> But that's that's confusing then. So, so two things are happening that I hear you saying right there. One, I say, well, I hear you saying, well, we can't operate party systems as they operate in other countries. That's fine. I don't know it it may or may not be it likely is more advantageous to do it the way that other countries do, but that's not the standard for the Democrats with which all of these candidates are running to be. And by your own description just now, the DSA you're saying is sort of creating a faximile of that by using the >> creat No, no, they're not. But I think NYC DSA is acting more like a political

114:58party than any other organization in this country, including the Democrat.

115:02>> Okay. So you have the DS the the NYC DSA behaving in that way. The question is why is it so um unthinkable that similar organ similar organiz organizing could be done completely outside of the Democratic party and or while uh someone like the the NYC DSA put their um uh their their efforts behind people like Andre Eastston who I believe is in the DSA as well individually. So Andre Eastston, just so everybody knows, is running against Richie Torres in the general election on an independent ballot line.

115:42Now, so is our friend Jose Vega, and so I'm supporting Jose Vega. But the question she's asking is not, hey, why do you engage with the Democratic party at all? But rather, why not keep your options open? For example, right now there's a general election campaign going on against Richie Torres, even though he won the primary. There's independence with some organizing behind them. Why won't you lend your support to campaigns like that? And uh it kind of goes south.

116:08>> Oh, no. He's PSL, I think, actually. Um but people who are ideologically aligned outside the Democratic party.

116:15>> Yeah.

116:16>> I mean, the question should be why why aren't any of these other socialist organizations able to like win very much? Well, I think he was about to say because PSL has its own party line, which is exactly Brianna's point is that if there's another organization with their own party line and they're running a candidate in the general election, why does the DSA never get involved to help them win? Why do they seem committed to only backing Democrats?

116:41>> CDSA because NYC has been incredibly effective and they have a strategy that wins. I think the results sort of speak for themselves. So, I think it's kind of >> Well, let's about this.

116:54>> Well, but let's let me let me be clear about this. We're being ahistorical about this. AOC gets characterized AOC started all of this. AOC's uh run was not >> Sorry. Are we is this like I mean and you can and you can run this if you >> want if you wanted but like >> if we're going to just like rehash the debate that you've been having with like like the DSA lefts for 6 years like why like why like why I've had a very busy day. Why why' you have a busy day?

117:26>> Oh my god. I just got done on this guy's dick and now this.

117:30>> Oh my god. [laughter] >> I'm exhausted. That's >> Daniel Denver. him.

117:37>> Such a joke.

117:38>> Fixed. Yeah.

117:39>> What a joke. I mean, unbelievable. What a sack of First, when I heard his name, I knew he's going to be a sack of And lo and behold, he was.

117:46[laughter] >> Well, it gets even better. It gets better. That was just I wanted to give a little bit of the backdrop of what the conversation was, what the dispute was.

117:56He now goes into a bit and he ends up, spoiler alert, rage quitting. He ends up hanging up on her.

118:01>> Oh, who would have thought? and and and he he talks about how, you know, it was it's this big imposition to have been asked on her show to talk about this given these other projects that he's working on. You could not I mean, Kurt, you're a comedy writer. You will appreciate this. You could not write a satire of a DSA guy funnier than how this goes, right?

118:23>> I can't write it funnier, but I am writing it because uh the cutout just got done with the pilot. I think we made more of it probably. So, I have I use all of these as material, especially that So maybe this is in here. All right, let's take a look.

118:35>> If we're going to just like rehash the debate that you've been having with like like the DSA lefts for 6 years, like why? Like why? Like why? I've had a very busy day. Why? Why' you have me on? Like >> well to what? Wait a minute.

118:49How do you characterize the debate that I've been having with the DSA for six years?

118:54>> This is if you want to have me on like I answered your question, but you're just like now we've been like 20 minutes having the same Oh, 20 minutes your piece.

119:03>> Let me ask you, what other topic do you think she'd be interested in discussing with you? Like, what else are you known for that would be of interest to a major podcast in this moment? Like, why are you surprised that she's hammering you on this? This is obviously the most urgent story of the moment. Your organization just had some big wins in some very high-profile races, and now what? You don't understand why she would have you on to talk to you about this as opposed to what else you're working on.

119:33Let's see what else is he working on.

119:35>> I've said my piece like it's not like like I'm not like a a talking like a TV talking ahead. I >> I just finished the six part of a seven-part 16- hour series on the history of Indonesia stretching from the dawn of Portuguese colonialism in the 16th century.

119:52>> Oh, she should have had you on to talk about that. [laughter] What? So, I mean, literally, you could not make this up.

119:58You've just had your organization, the DSA, break through in the biggest way it has since its inception. You've had more press with the DSA this past week than in the past decade. You get invited on one of the biggest shows in the space to talk about those wins and answer some tough questions. Oh my god, I'm so tired.

120:21>> Questions and [clears throat] you're like, >> you know, um, [laughter] I'm really exhausted. I'm I just wrapped part six of a seven-part series on 16th century Portuguese colonialism. And >> I just took a sex tour of Indonesia.

120:35>> Yeah, it's really really uh taking a lot of time out of my very busy schedule uh about 16th century Indonesia to be here talking about the recent DSA victories that are the talk of the country now.

120:48Like you couldn't make that up.

120:50This is what you know, you talk about a left that just intentionally makes itself as irrelevant as they possibly can.

120:56>> Yes, of course. It's all as cut out.

120:58It's the same as Patriot Front. This and that with the ponytail from Patriot Front are as f they're the same phony. They're the same phony. And that's why he's not going to answer the basic question of why are you the auxiliary of Democratic party? Basically, >> he's not going to answer her question ever because they're a cutout. Who's even real? If you're real, you're out of here, buddy. The second you do anything real, we don't like you.

121:23>> No, they find the woman who says that you you touched her 5 years ago and that's it.

121:29No one else would on the mass [laughter] anti-communist genoc.

121:42[laughter] You were the bravest guy at the bar. They lay me down.

121:48>> Put it right on my chest. Biggest big as possible. Right on my tit. Coming to home tit.

121:54>> Talking ahead.

121:55I just finished the six part of a seven part >> 16-hour series on the history of Indonesia stretching from the dawn of Portuguese colonialism in the 16th century.

122:05>> Why doesn't anybody want to talk to me about that? [laughter] >> Why don't I get invited on shows to talk about 16th century Portuguese colonialism as opposed to the three super high-profile victories that my organization finally won. Oh, I could be invited to talk about my passion. Yeah, >> dude. He looks like T.J. Miller doing a character.

122:27>> No, this this this is like a parody of itself. This is self parody. Like you could you can't write this.

122:33>> I just finished my introduction on the mass anti-communist genocide of 1965.

122:40>> Oh wow.

122:40>> When between 500,000 and 3 million people were murdered by a US backed dictator. And I came on >> I just did my first draft of my 11p part series on sexual liberation in 1790s France. I have a lot of got a lot of [laughter] things on the burner here. I really don't have time to talk about the news, you know.

123:00>> Well, did you ever see the movie The Act of Killing about the Indonesian genocide? Well, I didn't. And I wrote a whole paper about it. I just now found out it was already covered.

123:09>> Yeah. And you're saying this to me now [laughter] >> cuz you asked me and I was like sure but this is not what I this is like not what I was like hoping for one question when we go back and forth and disagree but this is like >> you don't have any questions for me about 16th century Portuguese club you don't have anything to ask me about that you know I just recorded 14 hours about it >> you could have asked me anything I I [laughter] >> um just like not a good use my time and it feels like a little tense.

123:41>> It's not a good use of your time.

123:44>> What? What do you mean it's not a good I don't understand. This is not a good use of your time.

123:49>> Your organization just made huge headlines for the first time ever, arguably.

123:56>> And now you get invited on a huge show like this and this is not a good use of your time.

124:01>> Okay. To validate your strategy to Briana Joy Gray. No, the better use of your time is what? recording part getting an early start on part seven on uh 16th century Indonesia.

124:12>> That's right. Indonesian boy culture.

124:14>> Yeah, exactly.

124:16>> I I I did ask I specifically want to know why not a good use of my time. The DSA has been talking but we've been talking about this for 20 minutes and you had a long list of things you wanted to talk to me about.

124:27>> 20 minutes, >> right? But this is this is chief among them.

124:29>> It's been 20 minutes.

124:31>> I'm very few people are as >> engaged with this issue. I feel like I've learned a lot from your interviews with people who've done the organizing on the ground. I don't can I don't have any push back about the efficacy of DSA.

124:47My question is how broadly applicable those strategies are. What is sort of unique about New York and the phenomenon that as I was about to describe started with AOC's run which was not a DSA fueled and enabled run.

125:02>> Okay. So then they go back and forth about Zoron for a little bit and then for time's sake we'll we'll cut to about a minute down the road >> and and I'm now suspecting that you're going to like play all this online even though I'm having a meta conversation with you which I wouldn't do for a guest on my show which I would not which I would not do for a guest on my show but it's not way of asking her not to air this because it hasn't gone well and I wouldn't do this to a guest on my show.

125:28I wouldn't put this out if I were you.

125:30I'd have the courtesy to just scrap this even though that would be a waste of her time. You know, funny how like the guy talks about how this interview is a waste of his time. A guy who most people have never heard of. He goes on one of the biggest shows in the space implies that it's a waste of his precious time because he's recording a 16-hour series on [laughter] whatever 14th century queerness in Ethiopia or whatever the it is. [laughter] >> Okay.

126:00All right. Gerb Colorado. This is not a good use of my time.

126:03>> This is not a good use of my time.

126:06>> Oh, wow. You're going to ask about that?

126:07I mean, it's been like 20 minutes.

126:09>> It's been 20 minutes. We've been talking about the same thing for 20 minutes.

126:14>> I'm having a meta conversation with you, which I wouldn't do for a guest on my show, which I would not which I would not do for a guest on my show.

126:20>> But this if you want, and I never I'd rather >> I don't edit my I don't edit my podcast like that.

126:28>> Then that's fine. But I I'm just telling you that like um >> you asked me a question, I answered it, >> you debated me back, I debated you back, and now we're just like going over the same thing over and over. And my like I'm my brain's just kind of like melting. My eyes are glazing over. It's just unpleasant. These guys supported Bernie Sanders who's given literally the same speech for 45 years, and now their eyes are glazing over. It's been 20 minutes. 20 whole minutes of this.

126:55>> Indonesia or not? I'm confused.

126:57[laughter] Do you even care? Do you even care about Portuguese colonialism 600 years ago?

127:02>> Why are you asking about the thing I'm in charge of?

127:05>> You don't care because you have too much privilege to care about the Indonesians.

127:08>> Well, I understand. [laughter] I'm genuinely surprised with this. What about this is so >> Listen, I thought we were just having a conversation about what seems to me to be a really fundamental issue about the direction of the left going forward. Cuz let me stay let me see where I'm coming from. Okay.

127:23>> Um, [laughter] I'm concerned that just like, sorry to maybe this is also something I'm not supposed to bring up, but I'm concerned that the same way that the left the left establishment pretended that force the vote was not a viable strategy and then we saw Republicans Wait a minute. We saw Republicans effectively do it two years later and I you, Katon. [laughter] >> Did you just hang up on me?

127:44>> Yeah, >> Yeah, I did.

127:47>> As soon as she says the word force to vote, gone. Doesn't say goodbye. No, nothing. Okay.

127:53>> I'm concerned that just like sorry to maybe this is also something I'm not supposed to bring up, but I'm concerned that the same way that the left the left establishment pretended that force the vote was not a viable strategy and then we saw Republicans Wait a minute. We saw Republicans effectively do it two years later and I was there.

128:10>> I mean I don't have I told you I have >> I don't have time. He doesn't have time.

128:15>> Yeah.

128:18[laughter] This happens to her a lot too, by the way, where she has like >> Well, you know, I mean, >> I really didn't expect that at all.

128:26>> Why not? Why didn't you agree?

128:28>> That was very unexpected.

128:31>> I wanted to have Dan on for a long time.

128:33>> Everything that I said about how much I value his work and his podcast is authentic and true.

128:39What I was about to just say when he hung up is that my concern is that just like force the vote was characterized by people and what I would describe as the establishment left as impossible that we would end up with a Republican speaker of the house when that is not how the voting works. I mean, I don't have to go over this with you guys. You guys know how what the score was with this.

128:58>> We know what the score was. She she was >> that was that was very professional of her to stay on and talk to the audience even though she doesn't live stream. You know, like if I were pre-recording and someone hung up on me, I would just I would just jerk off and go to sleep. Can we please? All right.

129:12>> Can we please get to Indo Indonesia, please? Oh my god. It's not a good use of my time.

129:18>> Not a good use of my time. Not a good use of my As soon as she mentions it.

129:23He's out. Why? Because that is a very telling thing. Forced to vote. And of course the following year where they promised for months and months and months on end that they were going to hold out for the build back better bill and then caved. Right? Same type of situation where you had leverage that you could have used and you proved >> you didn't use it. What she's doing there is she's proddding. Okay. Is there a mechanism by which you plan to hold members to account once they are elected? Because during the force to vote episode and during the bill back better episode, you had the ability to leverage your policy demands against the

130:02functionality of Washington DC and you didn't do it. And of course, there is no good answer for that.

130:08>> I mean, >> there is no good answer for that. And so that's why as soon as she mentions it, he's out. One more time. like sorry to maybe this is also something I'm not supposed to bring up but I'm concerned that the same way that the left the left establishment pretended that force the vote was not a viable strategy and then we saw Republicans wait a minute we saw Republicans effectively do it two years later >> that that's a great way to to to handle yourself as you've just had this big breakthrough with these very high-profile victories and then you get invited on a show like this to tout it

130:38and defend yourself and you rage quit because because you don't want to talk about force the vote and explain that you have more pressing matters like uh a sevenpart 16- hour series on Indonesia.

130:50>> Well, how do you think it felt for me to have to do that to a woman of color?

130:54Technically, I should I should have to sit and listen to her live narrative.

130:57>> That's right. You should.

130:58>> And she should apologize for forcing that on me with her stupid >> Yeah, she drove you into therapy. Drove you into therapy.

131:06>> I I had to take three self-care days.

131:08>> Yeah, that's right. That's right. It's her fault. American exception says, "For anybody who is more invested and thus more informed on these issues, why doesn't DD Daniel Denver not do dissence just argue that it was an error not to force the vote, but that DSA's Tea Party strategy is still sound?" Yeah, exactly.

131:25You could just say, "Hey, that was an L." Briana responds to this person, says, "It would be very easy to say it's good to support new insurgents because they've learned from the old squad and will absolutely force the vote and vote as a block. Kira seems to be hinting at this and it's a good thing." That's the thing. Rihanna has not even been hostile to these challengers. She's been pretty complimentary. Yeah, she's been >> seems like she's a fan.

131:47>> Is she a fan? Yeah.

131:48>> Well, this Mak Curios, the one who who won in Colorado, signaled that she's not going to support Hakee Jeff for speaker just like the Republicans did their own force to vote uh around Kevin McCarthy.

131:59Uh Nicole Sulk. What's that?

132:02>> Hakeim, I love Hakee Jeff.

132:04>> Oh yeah.

132:05>> Hope not hate. Beep beep. [laughter] I'm a fan of both of you, says Nicole Sulk. I'm truly shocked, Daniel Denver, that you couldn't engage with Bri on this. I'm a DSA member, worked on the recent campaigns, and I have real questions and concerns about ALC and the limitations of working within the DIM party. It's healthy to engage. Well, I guess she's not a fan of the podcast.

132:25So, you know, just as Jimmy emphasized during Force the Vote that it wasn't his idea, it was actually the DSA's idea. Th this this is a similar dynamic here because this essay by Eric Blanc which was written in uh Jacaban magazine called the ballot and the break really popularized if not coined I don't maybe this was the first time anybody even said this the so-called dirty break strategy which means you use the Democratic party as a vehicle for ballot access but you use that in order to build enough power to then break from it. So, like what Jose Vega did in his campaign is an example of the dirty

133:03break in action, which is he ran as a Democrat in the primary, but while he was running as a Democrat in the primary, he was also securing ballot access as an independent so that after the primary, he could keep the momentum going and run as an independent. That is essentially what the dirty break strategy is. and Jacabin and the DSA crowd popularized that concept and then never acted on it just like they came up with the force the vote strategy and then did not act on it. So it's very very similar playing out now.

133:33>> Are you taking a hint, Katon? Can you understand a hint? Do I have to come out and say it?

133:37>> Nothing's fake.

133:38>> We all worship the devil.

133:40>> That's right.

133:40>> I have to say it. I have to say it to you.

133:44>> Ah, >> I apologize. This segment's run 18 minutes. I know I've cut into your time.

133:48I know you have to get recording.

133:49>> Oh, I could have been in Indonesia by now taking a sex tour.

133:53>> You could have been halfway through part seven. So, I guess I guess we'll let you go. I guess we'll let you go. That's all the time we have up on you while you >> today. [laughter] Yeah, that's it. To end the segment, here we go. Just put it there. Boom.

134:05There you go. What happened? Where'd he go? Where'd he go? That's amazing.

134:11There you go. Boom. Look at that. Ended that in style. Writing fiction on the spot.

134:16>> Colorado. Doesn't get any better than that.

134:18>> Doesn't answer questions.

134:19>> It's quality entertainment right there.

134:21Yeah. All right. Uh well, hey, uh that is the end of the YouTube festivities for tonight. We're going to be switching to Rumble. We'll be back in a few minutes. Yeah, I know.

134:30>> Sorry. Part seven's just going to have to wait a little bit longer.

134:33>> I got to go to Rumble.

134:34>> We'll have you out of here soon enough.

134:51>> [music] [music] [music] [music]