0:01But, we left off we had not talked about Hueyatlaco.
0:05>> Hueyatlaco is a >> that right this time.
0:07>> fantastic.
0:08>> Okay.
0:09For people out there who don't know what this is, what what is Hueyatlaco?
0:12>> Yeah, so Hueyatlaco, just real quick before I get into it, is just a site in Mexico where there is a controversy on the age of artifacts that were found there. Some that show, just spoiler alert, that some of these artifacts might have been 250,000 years old.
0:30>> 250,000?
0:31>> Yes. And so, the reason that's interesting is because for a long time the predominant theory was that people had only been in the Americas for 13,000, 14,000 years. These days that's been pushed back quite a bit. Most people accept that this idea that the Clovis people were the first in the Americas is maybe uh not the case. That 22,000 years is maybe the reality now.
0:57>> Michael Button talked about it when he was in here, but can you just remind people who the Clovis people were?
1:02>> Yes. So, if you remember like if you go back to grade school even, when you see in your textbook this ice-free corridor from Asia to Alaska, down through Canada, and the peopling of the Americas, the Clovis people were this amazing group of hunter-gatherers, hunters really, um that had these specific Clovis points, these points that they would use um for hunting. And that's how you we could you could always identify them based on how they made those points. And you see it all throughout the Americas.
1:36And it does all show up Yep, exactly.
1:40And the archaeological record is pretty thorough with it. Like there's a reason they thought that was the first group.
1:46>> What is that made out of right there?
1:48The Clovis point that I'm looking at on the screen.
1:51>> Yeah, what is that?
1:53>> That's from 11,500 to 9,000 BC in Utah. That is a cool looking point.
2:00>> Wow.
2:02And uh so you know, so that's kind of the the baseline there is that people weren't supposed to be in the Americas past that time. Of course, that's been pushed back quite a bit now.
2:14I think most people would accept that at least 20,000 years is probably accurate.
2:18But 250,000 years, that's a whole different level. That's crazy, you know, that's that's that's crazy talk according to back then, even now. So in 1959, there was a man named Juan Armenta Camacho. And I titled this by the way, this video blew up for me. I titled it the greatest cover-up in archaeological history.
2:38>> It's a good title.
2:39>> And I think it's the truth, you know, this is actually I would like to preface this by saying this is not an attack on archaeology.
2:47Um I do think this was specific egos involved here um that caused this cover-up. I'm actually a big fan of archaeologists, believe it or not. Uh I know there's like this debate these the people are always fighting online, archaeologists and alternative history people.
3:03I try to stay out of that uh because I think archaeologists are I think there's some amazing archaeologists out there, but they're human just like anybody else.
3:13And so let's go to 1959.
3:16There's a man named Juan Armenta Camacho who was kind of a I guess you could call him a uh amateur archaeologist. He didn't have any credentials, but he was self-taught.
3:27And he did a lot of good work down in Puebla, Mexico. He was pretty well respected.
3:31>> Puebla, Mexico?
3:31>> Puebla, Mexico, yep.
3:33>> What region of Mexico is that?
3:34>> Puebla is just over the mountain.
3:36Remember Popo, the volcano we were just talking about? Just over the mountains from Mexico City, you go across that pass and you're in Puebla.
3:42>> Okay.
3:43>> Not far.
3:44Hey guys, three quick things. Number one, if you haven't subscribed, please subscribe. It's a huge huge help. Number two, if you'd like to join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes, you can join via the link in my description or in the pinned comment below. And number three, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make content from the show and make money, you can join via the Discord link in my description below.
4:06>> And uh if you want to pull up my PDF um uh when you get a chance, Joey.
4:11Juan Armenta Camacho and scroll all the way down.
4:16Juan Armenta Camacho found this fossil while he was out there on the shores of this reservoir.
4:22Right there.
4:23Go up one.
4:24Perfect. See this fossil right here?
4:27>> Am I looking top right?
4:28>> Top Yeah, top and top right. So and he quickly realized that there was engravings on this.
4:36That there was carvings on this thing.
4:38And then it depicted a hunting scene.
4:41Now, I believe this is the hip bone of a North American camel. Camels used to live in North America.
4:47>> A hip bone of a camel?
4:49>> Yes. And so North America used to have camels, used to have you know um uh mammoths, horses before they were reintroduced again, lived in North America.
5:01>> Yeah, I knew about the mammoths. I knew about the horses, too. But camels?
5:04>> Yep. North American camel.
5:06>> [ __ ] Lawrence of Arabia over in North America.
5:09>> [clears throat] >> And this was an ice age animal.
5:12And this was a huge discovery because it was carved on something called green bone.
5:18And this is a fossilized bone right here.
5:20So green bone means that it was carved soon after death. Meaning like it didn't just find it as a fossil years later.
5:28And so that means that this was at least 10,000 years old. You know, some people think that fossilization happens quicker or longer depend but on average about 10,000 years is a good guess. And they knew this was extremely old.
5:40>> But 10,000 still puts us in the Clovis kind of era if need be, right?
5:45>> Totally, but at the time though, this is one of the oldest examples of art in the Americas. So, that's a big deal.
5:53>> And that's the art the re-rendering of the art right there on the top right?
5:57>> Correct.
5:58>> it's it's depicting a hunting scene?
6:00>> Yep, you can see there there's like a some type of mastodon there. There's, you know, carvings of different looks like a skull.
6:09And so, >> [clears throat] >> this is at least 10,000 years old and a bunch of archaeologists and geologists get interested and they confirm the finding. At one point, the Smithsonian had this uh at least a replica of it in their museum.
6:24>> At one point?
6:25>> At one point. Uh nobody knows where this artifact is anymore. This is no one knows where this is. This is gone forever. Like yes.
6:34>> What happened there?
6:35>> Uh we can we'll get into that for sure.
6:38But, another preface, this isn't the artifact that ended up being debated on whether it was 250,000 years old, but it opened the door for excavation at a place called Hueyatlaco.
6:49And so, if we go to the next slide, there's a really good archaeologist named Cynthia Irwin-Williams that um went down there and did the dig.
6:58And she was kind of an up-and-coming talent and people were excited about her and this was a big, you know, going to be a big dig. They knew they were going to find some interesting things down there.
7:07>> American lady or what?
7:08>> American lady, which is also probably a good point for later on.
7:12So, she immediately starts finding these stratified layers or these artifacts in stratified layers. And if you go to the next uh slide here, this is the layers we're seeing here and this is important. So, Hueyatlaco ash is right there. That's important because ash can be dated. You can date a ash.
7:33There's there's carbon in it. There's there's things that you can date.
7:36And then you have bed C and bed E and bed I. So, one piece of the artifacts that they found was in bed C and E and the other in bed I.
7:46So, there's you know, there's no controversy at this point, but the next slide and they go to Hal Maddy is a geologist and he does um a carbon dating of it.
7:58And carbon dating at the time was the best they have.
8:01They had. Now, we have way better methods, uranium series dating.
8:06>> Uranium series dating?
8:07>> Yeah, fission track dating. There's all kinds of methods now that are better, but at the time this is what they had.
8:12And they got 22,000 years. Carbon dating is not the most accurate, but they got 22,000 years with just that.
8:20>> layer.
8:21>> And at the time that's like kind of maxing out the abilities I think of like carbon dating. So, it could have been even older, but yeah.
8:27>> What was their margin of error on that plus or minus 3,000?
8:30>> There's like definitely a standard deviation, but like that's the I think that that that answer right there 22,000 had some type of yeah, standard deviation on it, but it was tight. It's it's not like >> not like 12,000 years on either side.
8:45>> But once again, this is carbon dating.
8:47It's I think most people will agree carbon dating is just not the most accurate, but they knew it was old.
8:53Right? That told them that they was old and so immediately this becomes controversial.
8:58At the time 22,000 years was a no-no.
9:01That [snorts] is the textbooks have been written.
9:04Right? [laughter] Like textbooks have already been written >> Yeah, written by Maxwell.
9:08>> Yep, and so this challenged Clovis first.
9:12Clovis first um the the archaeological record for Clovis first kind of ends around that Younger Dryas time period like 12,000 some years.
9:23Um >> So, this guy goes down and does this and obviously he gets attacked brutally by people who have not gone and observed this. They're just saying that can't be because we've already decided with the science that it can only be 12,000 no matter what else we find. La la la, eyes are shut, ears are shut.
9:39>> Even crazier is men with guns show up to the site, confiscate artifacts, and ban all the archaeologist and geologist from performing any more work there.
9:51>> Men with guns?
9:52>> That's the story.
9:53>> This is like 1960 now, 1960?
9:55>> at this point.
9:56>> Okay.
9:57>> There's a really good book called the first uh the first Americans by a guy named Christopher Hardaker that's passed away that documents all of this drama that happened.
10:08And uh Juan Armenta Camacho, the original discoverer of the the camel bone hip, his daughter in one of the documentaries that's out there tells the story about the men showing up. And basically they blamed it on uh the director of the museum of uh history in Mexico City.
10:27Uh they thought that he was jealous of Cynthia or just disagreed with their and thought this was getting out of control.
10:32And so they show up with the stories they show up with guns and confiscate these artifacts.
10:38And so this kind of gets memory holed for a little bit.
10:43Fast forward 10 years later, now they have something called uranium series dating.
10:49>> In the 70s?
10:50>> In the 70s.
10:51>> And how does that work, uranium series dating?
10:53>> I don't know exactly other than it's like um I'm sure they're they're putting a lot of heat on I don't >> We can Google that.
11:01>> Yeah, let's let's Google that.
11:03>> do that.
11:04>> And so during this time they go, "Let's take a look at these examples of this ash."
11:11>> You want me to read this?
11:12>> do. This will be good.
11:14>> You're at This is from Google AI.
11:15Uranium series dating is a highly accurate radiometric technique with a plus minus 1% error used to determine the age of geological and archaeological materials, primarily calcium carbonates like stalactites, corals, and shells ranging from 1,000 to 500,000 years old. It works by measuring the ratio of radioactive uranium isotopes to their daughter isotope thorium 230, which accumulates over time. How it functions, unlike radiocarbon dating that measures end member decay, U-series dating measures the degree the degree to which secular equilibrium has been restored between the radioactive daughter isotope and its
11:58parent isotope. Because uranium is water soluble and thorium is not, newly formed materials contain uranium but no thorium, starting a clock as thorium begins to accumulate. Okay, that makes sense. But, please continue.
12:12>> So, this is a better method. And if Remember, they're they're testing that ash. And keep in mind, these artifacts that and yeah, there's the site with Tlaco right there.
12:24Um if you got that PDF, these artifacts they're underneath the ash. So, we're just measuring the ash. The artifacts are well below.
12:33And there's another geologist that goes out there named Virginia Steen-McIntyre.
12:39And she goes and does this uranium series dating on this material.
12:43>> So, she was allowed to go in there?
12:45>> Well, they had they they still had some of the ash probably back in the Americas for labs, but she actually did go back.
12:50I believe that's her right there.
12:52>> So, the men with guns are gone.
12:54>> Men with guns are gone, maybe got permission to get >> And we don't know who the men with guns were?
13:00>> Uh the story is that they were sent by uh the director of the Museum of uh History in Mexico City.
13:07Um the guy's name was Luis Lorenzo.
13:10Um that's the story from Christopher Hardaker in his book. This is all '50s and '60s, so you know, the paper trail is is pretty wild, you know.
13:18>> And so, she dates this to 250,000 to 800,000 years old. Now, that's a huge gap.
13:27>> The tools?
13:28>> The ash.
13:29>> The ash?
13:30>> Just the ash.
13:32>> So, he was at 22,000 and she got to 250 to 800, which is a huge gap.
13:36>> which is with a more accurate dating method.
13:38>> Right.
13:39Now, how'd she What was her logic there?
13:41>> Well, the logic No one really At this point, people right away accept Okay, yeah, I know this is old.
13:51This is old. Maybe not everybody accepted, but most people were accepting this is old, but something must be wrong with these layers that these artifacts are being found in.
14:00So, immediately when she publishes this, she loses funding. She kind of has a, you know, a hit on her character assassinations, all that stuff.
14:10And part of another reason I call this the cover-up.
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15:38>> So, fast forward to the 2000, I think early 2000s, Christopher Hardaker, the man that wrote the book along with um some other archaeologists uh what's his name? Um a few of them are escaping me right now.
15:55But, they go back to the site decades later, and they go, "Let's do it again.
16:00This time we're going to do like a double-blind test. We're going to In fact, so no one gets in trouble, we're going to send it to an expert um that does uranium-series dating, another one that does fission-track dating, and we're not even going to tell them what it's for. That way they don't get in trouble."
16:14Just tell us how old is the material.
16:16And so, they send the ash, and the uranium-series thorium or the uranium-series dating dating, and the fission-track dating both come back to like 250,000 to 500,000 years, confirming it.
16:29So, at this point no one is arguing, "Okay, the ash is The ash is clearly old." Everybody agrees with that.
16:36But, the argument that starts to be made is that beds C and E, that those artifacts ended up there due to some type of erosion.
16:46And keep in mind bed I, no one's questioning that that with bed I. Bed I, everyone agreed it was well secured underneath the ash.
16:56But, with beds C and E, they said it must have been erosion.
16:59Well, they did something called a diatom analysis. So, this is like the fourth dating method they used.
17:06Diatoms, and let me just back up real quick.
17:11Um there was an archi- an archaeologist named um Oh, I'm forgetting his name right now.
17:20I'm really I'm really sorry I'm forgetting his name, but an archaeologist was just doing his job and basically taking the skeptic side of this, which is nothing wrong with that.
17:29Like this is a huge claim, 250,000 years for for humans.
17:33So, I'm not flaming him when I when I'm talking about this, but his idea was that something called, um, basically a an old river channel was how that ended up there.
17:44But another test comes along called a diatom analysis, and diatoms are these extinct little micros- Not all of them are extinct, some of them are still still alive, but these little microscopic organisms, and they know generally when these different organisms went extinct. And if you could find some around where these were found, you could get a pretty good idea of when those diatoms that were in the exact same place where those artifacts were found, you know, went extinct. If you could find any any of the extinct ones, and they found one or several of them that were at minimum 80,000 years when they went extinct. So,
18:25that's just at minimum.
18:27And >> At min- How did they determine at minimum?
18:30>> Oh, there's uh because that's when it went extinct, but that doesn't They didn't just They'd been alive Those diatoms had existed for hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of years.
18:39So, >> Okay.
18:40>> 80,000 when 80,000 years is when they went extinct, so that's just the minimum.
18:45Once again, confirming that those artifacts were laying were laid there a long time ago is the argument.
18:56Now, even the skeptics had trouble, you know, um, arguing against the diatom analysis. That was something that was kind of mind-blowing.
19:08Meanwhile, with Bednar, no one disagrees that bed eye is underneath the ash. And the explanation was she must have just made a mistake.
19:19She wrote it wrong in her notes.
19:21And but no one dis- She never She She never agreed with that. Cynthia never admitted to making a mistake. Everyone that kind of defended her said she was very thorough with her notes and that they believe she found something in bed eye. And that bed eye is even lower and older than bed C and E right there.
19:40And let's remember the way Itzla Oco ash is what's being measured here. So, bed C and E and I are even older than the way Itzla Oco ash. Now, I I keep looking at this chart that's like a drawing rendering of it, but do you know like on a foot basis how much deeper that is?
19:58>> there's some pretty I wish I would have You know, go back up to that picture to slide 48.
20:04So, right here is kind of like the the levels that they're working with that kind of helps you a little bit. Um >> So, where's her hand?
20:14>> It's a good question. I'm not sure exactly where that's like where the ash is.
20:17>> So, basically you see where it's blue on the top right there?
20:20>> That's the sky, right?
20:21>> That's the sky. So, that's the top right there and then you can see the size of her. She's crouched over, so maybe she's crouched over standing at about you know, squatting at about 3 ft and then it looks like there's an So, it's about 6 ft up. I am ball parking this just looking at people. 6 7 ft up all in.
20:41>> And so, this is it's just mind-blowing because you're you're And this is why I like Michael Button's channel so much.
20:49Michael Button you could consider I guess as part of the alternative history niche, but it's not In my opinion, it's nothing like fantastical out of this like there's not really you know, the Atlantis talk and all that stuff.
21:03Michael sticks to how old are humans.
21:06Yeah. Right?
21:07Um I really appreciated about that about that with him. You know, he's open-minded, but he really sticks to some of the new evidence that's coming out about the age of like Homo sapiens, for example.
21:19And so, when we talked about White Tzolkin before he made his video, um I was so excited cuz I knew this would be right up his audience's alley.
21:30And it's even more exciting cuz it's the Americas. People weren't supposed to be here until 20,000 years ago, and here we have this evidence that they might have.
21:38Now, I will say to like give credit to the archaeologists that are skeptics on this, like where's the rest of the fossil record that shows that? And that's a good question. There's some examples if you keep going down, like there's a site in uh keep on going down to the very end.
21:55Yeah, this one right here.
21:57Uh so, at the Brazilian Serra da Capivara National Park, there's rock art that some people believe is possibly 100,000 years old.
22:06>> On what basis?
22:07>> Um I probably a lot of them what it was There's dating methods that you can use with uh pigments. So, like rock carvings, that's going to be hard, but actually with paint, there's stuff you can do. I can't remember uh thermoluminescence dating is one way you can get some ages on. But then also, you can measure, for example, they'll use ochre.
22:29So, ochre is like a rock that they will use to like put this uh paint on the wall.
22:34>> Mhm.
22:35>> And if you can find flakes of that in a certain layer of dirt that has organic material, you can measure the date of that organic material in the dirt. And so, you can get some ideas there as well. Um and so, there's another place called the Cerutti Mastodon site. Now, this one's really interesting. This is out by San Diego.
22:55They were like making a highway or something, and they found this mammoth bone.
23:00>> 130,000 years old?
23:02>> They found this mammoth tusk in a layer that was is definitely 130,000 years old and what's interesting about it, it was sitting up in a very peculiar way as if it had been rested against a rock.
23:15And the bone marrow was extracted from it. It was cracked in a way where the bone marrow was being extracted. Like there's not really, I mean if an animal can, it will eat the bone marrow. But like you you kind of need there to be something to pulverize it.
23:31Um and so >> Meaning what's the connotation there?
23:34>> A human cracked [snorts] that thing open.
23:37>> When it was already dead or killed it against the wall?
23:39>> Well, yeah, maybe even as a you know, a lot of times with bone marrow, humans would be scavengers in that case. They'd maybe come across a dead animal and they would crack the bones to get the marrow.
23:49But definitely when it was, you know, freshly killed within a week or so. And maybe they killed it also. Um so that's the Cerutti Mastodon site in San Diego.
24:00That one's really interesting and there's actually some like legitimate scholarly work being done there. And then you got the White Sands footprints which are 22,000 years old. And that's kind of the reason a lot of people are accepting that Clovis first might not be the reality here.
24:14>> the White Sands footprints again? I was just >> Pull those up. It's pretty cool. It's like these kids out by White Sands, New Mexico. These children that were running around in a um some mud that ended up being fossilized. Yeah, here it is right here.
24:28>> Yeah, it's some alien [ __ ] out in White Sands too as well.
24:31>> And one of these might have uh six toes.
24:35I think one of these has six toes.
24:36>> Excuse me.
24:37>> Is >> Oh yeah, look at that. 1 2 3 4 5 6 on that one on the left. See that?
24:41>> Yeah, and that's called polydactyly.
24:45>> And uh is that five, thief?
24:46>> No, it's six. 1 2 3 4 >> Six. Yeah, yeah.
24:51>> Yeah, so that's called polydactyly.
24:53>> is going on out there?
24:55>> Yeah, so it's a genetic condition and it you see I've taken pictures of a lot of petroglyphs out in the American Southwest that have six fingers on their hands.
25:03>> Mhm.
25:04>> And there's good evidence there's been some good archeology done on this. I wish I had names to cite to give them credit, but there's been good evidence that these people were considered special.
25:16Um that they if you had six hands that or sorry six hands six fingers that you were maybe spiritually connected. So at Chaco Canyon there's carvings of six hands.
25:27Uh there's even a there's even a handprint in the in Casa or so this place called Pueblo Bonito in Chaco Canyon. You can check this out.
25:38There's actually a handprint in the actual Adobe of six fingers. Like somebody put their six fingers in the handprint on there.
25:45>> Full ET go home.
25:47>> Yeah, yeah. So uh pretty cool there.
25:50>> Can we pull up the back to the Wikipedia Joe just so I can give context on that on uh to This is the White Sands.
25:57>> Sands. So the White Sands footprints are a set of ancient human footprints discovered in 2009 and see how they got to put human in there just to Wikipedia is just programming us to make sure we don't look into it further.
26:09>> maybe they could be tridactyl.
26:10>> Discovered in 2009 at White Sands National Park in New Mexico. In 2021 they were radiocarbon dated based on seeds found in the sediment layers to between 21 and 23,000 years ago. The date range is currently the subject of scientific debate, but it it if it is correct, the footprints would be possibly the oldest evidence of humans in the Americas. The earlier theory held the human settlement in the Americas began at the end of the last glacial period about 13 to 16,000 years ago. There were 61 footprints located on the shore of a dried-up Ice Age era lake Lake Otero in the Tularosa Basin.
26:49The prints were laid on the shores of the now dry lake at a time when the climate in the region was less arid.
26:55Instead of being a desert of gypsum dunes, the region had extensive grasslands and abundant vegetation, enough that these footprints could be preserved.
27:04>> Pretty cool, right?
27:05>> That is so cool.
27:06>> And it's like it's really surreal. They were It looks like they were playing.
27:10Like it's almost like they were playing tag. They The footprints are going all kinds of kinds of directions. They were running around and they're children.
27:17So, >> Perfectly imprinted though.
27:19>> Yeah.
27:20>> Like Steve, can you pull up that first one again real quick? Right there. Yeah, yeah.
27:24That's the thing about them. Like >> I was walking along during the snowstorm here a couple weeks back. And when I was going along the pathway, there were other people too. And then I'd come back around and you'd see, you know, fresh footprints of like the latest shoe.
27:41>> But like they're >> It maybe people will understand what I'm trying to explain. This is hard to put into words. But like some footprints are perfect outlines of the borderline perfect outlines of the shoe. And then others, you know, they step like this or like that a little bit. So, it's not a perfect outline.
27:59These are literal feet.
28:01>> Yeah.
28:02>> And the outlines look so geometrically solid compared to what an actual x-ray of a foot >> Right.
28:10>> would look like. You know what I mean?
28:11It's almost like they very calmly went >> Right.
28:15>> Like that a little bit.
28:17>> Like they really pressed it in there.
28:18>> Right.
28:19>> So, >> only sketchy part to me.
28:21>> Yeah, that is kind of interesting. So, okay. You want to get a little crack the case. On the Yeah, maybe you did. So, on the footprints topic, and this is way speculative and it deals with way at Slocum. And this is where I actually went and found I I went to way at Slocum. I forgot to mention that. Like I went there.
28:37>> I drove down there, yeah.
28:38>> get past the guys with guns?
28:40>> I Yeah, there was no guys with guns.
28:41Although uh I had a Kansas license plate. And in Kansas, we don't have to have a front license plate. So, I got pulled over like eight times on my way down there. But, uh that's another story.
28:51If you go to my YouTube channel, Joey, um I have like one of my early videos is called The Cover-Up at Hueyatlaco, and it's uh right there.
29:03And if we just fast-forward to the end, um yeah, right here. Okay, so >> in the Xali tuff photographed during Silvia Gonzalez's investigation at the foot of Cerro Toluquilla, a few miles from Hueyatlaco.
29:20Okay, can we pause it?
29:21>> went and found I went and found this.
29:23So, >> Oh, you went and found it?
29:24>> I went and found the footprints. So, using Google Earth and a little bit of uh I guess just willpower, um I went and found it. So, >> [ __ ] Robert Langdon.
29:34>> rewind just a little bit.
29:37Let's see if we have my drone shots here, cuz I took some drone shots of this.
29:41Yeah, so >> Is this where you want?
29:44>> This is the area right here. And so, we can just let this play play.
29:49>> This was found in a layer of ash called the Xali tuff that's 1 million years old.
29:55And I don't think I don't know if these are footprints. Um Christopher Hardaker didn't know if they were footprints.
30:04And some people think that this is just the result of mining in the area, but an archaeologist did go look at these.
30:10And here's some of the images that he had.
30:13And I went and found this site and tried to get like 4K images of it. I really screwed it up. I should have took my like uh shoe off to give like a scale of what these were looking like.
30:25But >> back?
30:26>> Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I might have been trespassing. I don't know what was going on here. So, >> It's for the greater good.
30:32>> If it keeps going, I think that you're going to see a drone shot here.
30:36And yeah, I was out there on dirt roads.
30:39But, this would just be wild. This is actually yeah, handheld in a car with my out the window.
30:461 million-year-old footprints would just be like that wouldn't even be Homo sapiens. That would be something else.
30:51So, this is my drone shot of the site.
30:55>> bro. Very one battle after another.
30:57>> Thank you. And here's some of the supposed footprints from above.
31:02Um way less defined than what you would find out at White Sands. That's probably the best shot right there. And then I actually went and took a couple photos of these, too.
31:12Like gun to my head, I would just probably say like Occam's razor, these aren't footprints. Like they're in the it's in a layer of ash that's 1 million years old. Like that wouldn't even be Homo sapiens. That'd mean that's some type of like Homo erectus or something.
31:25Or not even that. That'd be even older.
31:27>> Or >> Or was that aliens?
31:29>> Mhm.
31:29>> Tridactyls?
31:30>> It could be.
31:31>> Maybe. Yeah, here's some other shots.
31:33>> throwing me off, bro. You got my head going.
31:35>> [laughter] >> For sure.
31:38But uh >> Yeah, what what if >> that was like just some dude named [ __ ] Carl who was walking there like an hour before?
31:44>> [laughter] >> You're out there like, "Oh my god, we found something."
31:46>> Yeah. Yeah, it's a big old prank.
31:49[ __ ] Marboro Reds.
31:50>> But at one point, this got the archaeological community down in Mexico interested. They were wondering what these were.
31:57Um and here I am playing Mr.
31:59Investigator taking photos with my iPhone.
32:02>> I love that. Someone on the ground.
32:04>> Yeah. But, you know, gun to my head, probably just uh mining marks from their picks. But, anyways, so that I just that was I forgot all about that. I actually was at Lake Texcoco and I wanted to just mention that.
32:15>> So, you view this as like maybe the biggest cover-up of all time?
32:19>> just because to me it's the only one with like proof. Like a lot of people say Egypt is a huge cover-up, but I mean, I don't know. I don't Maybe I just haven't looked into it too much. This one is a proven cover-up. Men with guns showed up and and confiscated artifacts.
32:34>> Yeah, I I I think I I think the Egypt one is certainly there's been massive cover-ups there as well. Like they're all important to me. To you were talking about it earlier and it's it's important point. One of the reasons I like listening to guys like you and and like Luke Camerons over the years and now Michael Button as well is like when when you look at Luke and Michael who've been on the show like they're both classically trained in this and to an extent you are too with with your with your degree and what you were doing meaning you understand the academic side of this. You're not there to just
33:10[ __ ] be the automatic opposite voice in the room on things. But you also understand the reason that that it's important to question things as we find new evidence. So you guys bridge the gap between the two and that's what I really like you know, platforming if if you will on the show because it's important that like we see the strengths of both sides and we also call it out when I guess like the vitriol happens from a place that's not truth-seeking and it's more just like how can I [ __ ] mug my enemies.
33:45>> Right, for sure. Like we shouldn't be mugging each other in the alternative history versus like archaeologist space for sure.
33:55And so my whole thing is I'm just a former history teacher that has an interest in weird anomalies and weird enigmas. But I try to call balls and strikes. Like if I think something's a hoax um especially over these last few years with some of my experiences with some of that stuff, I'll do it. Like there was a there was a Viking if you go to my PDF, there's a I'll just do this quickly.
34:20>> No, take your time.
34:21>> we got we're we're on episode two now, aren't we? So yeah.
34:23>> good.
34:24>> I want to tell you about the 70-year-old legend of Vikings in Paraguay or Vikings in South America that >> Vikings in South America.
34:33>> Yeah, um that I believe I have debunked.
34:36I think that I have I think I put it helped put it to bed.
34:40Um so, if you go to slide 15, um and actually have a YouTube video on this, too, with some cool drone footage that maybe we can check out. Um Sorry, I guess go to slide keep on going.
34:54>> Yeah, but anyways, I'll tell you there's a there's a right >> Well, >> I don't know >> go to the YouTube video?
35:05>> to the YouTube video.
35:07>> It's called uh debunking Vikings in in South America or something like that. You'll see it down there.
35:15It's uh one of my more recent ones. Um There we go.
35:21Down a little bit further.
35:23Right there with the Jaguar.
35:25So, there was this guy named Jacques de Mahieu that was anthropologist, archaeologist down in Argentina that had fled France after World War because he was a sympathizer with the Nazis.
35:39And uh >> that they all went there.
35:41>> I know, I know.
35:42And uh yep, this is it. This he believed this right here was a megalithic wall.
35:48And it Anyways, I went down there to go >> at you on the ground.
35:54>> Yeah, I just that sometimes I'll I'll go out and try to figure this stuff out.
35:59But I went down there and cuz I'd read part of his book online called uh Viking the Viking King of Paraguay.
36:08And the story was that there was there was these expeditions that went out there and found these runic inscriptions carved in the hillsides of Brazil and Paraguay and that this proved that like this white race was you know, running things down in Paraguay a long time ago. And to this day people still talk about it. Like when I was in Paraguay, people when I'd ask them about it, go, "Oh, yeah, the Vikings made it to Paraguay."
36:36And so this guy, Jacques de Mahieu, talks about these megalithic walls.
36:42And I never seen any pictures of any of this online.
36:46And so I start going down there and asking people if there's any information about where I can find some of these.
36:51And said, "Well, you got to be careful.
36:53There's where they're where they're at, where all these carvings are at, is where this Marxist guerrilla group Yeah, this Marxist guerrilla group lives. And they kidnapped the vice former vice president of Paraguay like 4 years ago, and he's presumed dead. So it was a dangerous Paraguay is actually a pretty safe country except for this place that I had to go to. So that's Jacques de Mahieu.
37:15And so I go on this little hike. I pay some guides to kind of get me where I think these might be at.
37:25And if you go just a little bit further, right here. Go back a little bit.
37:30>> Right there.
37:30>> Yep, right here.
37:33You see, I actually find it. I found a runic inscription. That is, if you pause it right here, >> the Nazi was pointing out.
37:41>> That is a runic inscription. In his book, he has all these different things that are just drawings of it. He doesn't have any photos.
37:48But sure enough, when I saw that, I thought I wasn't going to find anything.
37:53There it was. That's a runic inscription. I'd seen a very blurry photo of this on the internet on a old blog and confirmed that was it. This is a mixture of elder younger elder and older and younger futhark, which is a type of runic inscription you find out in like Sweden and and stuff like that.
38:13And it's right here in Paraguay. So I'm having my mind blown a little bit. I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ] Like here it is. Maybe there's something to it.
38:24>> He found it.
38:25>> And so I take a picture of this and put it online.
38:28And somebody does a quick translation and they say I think it says Sigthor Munk.
38:34>> Sigthor Munk?
38:34>> Sigthor Munk. And I email a photo of this to Dr. Henrik Williams of Uppsala University.
38:42And he's like the world leading runologist.
38:45Um and he convert he can't confirm Sigthor but Munk was definitely Munk was definitely legible. He could read Munk.
38:57Well, if you read uh the Vikings in Paraguay book the lead runologist on that expedition his [laughter] name was Professor Munk.
39:09>> Hey guys, if you haven't already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button. It's a huge huge help. Thank you.
39:14>> And I believe this is the work of Professor Munk here.
39:18Um and I'm guessing it was an attempt to sell books. They sold they sold a lot of these books back then. Like a lot of these books sold. I don't know how much they sold or how much they made.
39:29But in that same book they talk about these megalithic walls. I went and found the megalithic wall. Spoiler alert, it is not a megalithic wall. If you scroll >> wall?
39:37>> It's clearly a natural feature. I'll show you why.
39:40Um and I'm not a geologist. So but right there yeah, you're going to see this.
39:45So we come up on it and you see it does kind of look blocky right there. But this can be explained by something called exhumation and it's not blocky everywhere. Like there's a foundation that doesn't go through.
39:57>> That looks like the side of the Hudson Parkway.
39:59>> Yeah, and then you put it up in the air and you see this wall goes on for miles.
40:05>> Yeah, that you know that's not >> And I am 100% certain this is the wall he was talking about in his book.
40:12So I believe >> Wait, you weren't certain before you went there?
40:15>> No, I was.
40:17>> Okay.
40:17>> I'm 100% >> certain this I just by what I read and by what my guides were telling me that was the wall.
40:24Um and so that is Elder Futhark right there, but I believed it was I believe it was carved about 70 years ago.
40:30Uh or 60 60 years ago.
40:32>> Investigator on the ground finding it out. I love it.
40:35>> Those are actually authentic petroglyphs right there and you'll notice they have lichen in their grooves where this one's fresh like the lichen still hasn't grown through.
40:42>> Is there evidence in other places not necessarily Paraguay, but anywhere in South America that like, you know, a [ __ ] Viking or something like them found their way there one minute?
40:53>> So there are other runes in North America. I think the most interesting one is the Heavener Runestone in Oklahoma.
41:00Um and then there's the uh >> Heavener?
41:03>> Yep. And then there's one up in Minnesota as well that Scott Walter, who's like a forensic geologist that's really into this stuff, um he believes it's authentic, but I don't know.
41:15Um and then down in Peru the most interesting thing that's kind of on the Oh, you're good. The most interesting thing in South America is there are these there's this museum called Museo Larco in Lima, Peru and when I was in there there are these sculptures of men with beards and I'm not talking about like sparse facial hair, but men with like huge long beards like Santa Claus >> Viking beards.
41:46>> And some of them with like these elaborate moustaches that twirl.
41:51And um that's, you know, the the only thing I've ever stopped and go, "Huh, that's interesting.
41:57Like those I I don't recall natives in the area having those thick beards like that, but um >> Also, who's to say no matter how good the quote-unquote warriors were, who's to say that at any point in history prior to the conquistadors, whether be Vikings, whether be Byzantines, whether be ancient Romans, whether be ancient Greeks >> Yep.
42:19>> that some boat of you know, 30, 40 men >> Maybe on accident.
42:26>> over there.
42:27>> Maybe not even on purpose.
42:28>> Right, not on purpose, but you know, who's to say that they didn't make it over there and they were just all captured and [ __ ] killed.
42:34>> Yeah.
42:35>> Um that could have happened like technically, that could have happened >> a hundred times for all we know.
42:42>> if you Google Roman Roman sculpture head Mexico.
42:49>> Roman sculpture head Oh, I got to get Toland Stone back in here for this.
42:53>> This one's pretty wild. So, I agree with you. I think like the Romans were the Canary Islands, right?
43:01They had like a little trade port there.
43:03Uh yes.
43:05>> The Cuaxac the Calix Cuaca head?
43:08>> So, I visited this site as well when I was in Mexico.
43:11>> What's it look like?
43:12>> And this is an artifact that was found in a Mesoamerican burial that was carbon dated to like before the Spanish arrived.
43:23And it's pretty well thought that this is a Roman sculpture. Like all the Roman archi- all the archaeologists and and Roman historians that looked at this said, "Yeah, no, that matches that matches a Roman head that they would have been carving at a certain time during Roman history."
43:41>> All right, let's move >> And the official it's tucked away in the Anthropology Museum in Mexico City and the official way it's labeled is a post-Columbian artifact, meaning after the Spanish.
43:54>> Conveniently.
43:54>> They basically say that they think the Spanish brought it over and put it in the grave offering, like which doesn't make sense to me.
44:02>> Let me read this. In 1933, archaeologist Jose Garcia Payon discovered a small head with foreign features in a burial at Calixtlahuaca in the Toluca Valley about 60 km west of Mexico City. The burial was under two undisturbed cemented floors that antedated the destruction of Calixtlahuaca by the Aztecs in AD 1510. Numerous cultural pieces were found with the head with the head were I were identified by Garcia Payon as belonging to the Aztec Malacacheca period of 1476 to 1510.
44:36Cortez did not land in Veracruz until 1519 and did not conquer the Aztecs until 1521. So, that central Mexico was still pre-Hispanic in 1510. In 1961, the Austrian anthropologist Robert Heime Goldern examined the head and declared that it derived unquestionably from the Hellenistic-Roman school of art.
44:57>> Right.
44:57>> He found that its distinctive naturalism suggested a date around AD 200. Heine Geldern was an expert on the Southeast Asia, but he reported in the communication quoted by Garcia Payon that the view that it was Roman from circa AD 200 had been confirmed by Professor Borenger, then president of German Archaeological Institute. The head was largely forgotten until 1990 when archaeology student Roman Hristov >> Romeo. Romeo Hristov.
45:27>> Romeo Hristov began a search for it. Two and a half years later, he located it in storage in the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City misclassified as colonial history and reviewed this and reviewed the circumstances of discovery and published literature relating to it. On the rediscovery, Hristov is currently associated with the Department of Anthropology at the University of New Mexico.
45:55>> Yep. And shout out to him. He's passed away. I tried to get a hold of Romeo.
45:59He's dead. I tried to get a hold of Romeo Hristov. is a it was a great archaeologist, anthropologist at the University of New Mexico and his son wrote to me and said, "Hey, um he's passed away and was really excited that I was looking into this because that was like one of his things that he was most proud of was his work with this."
46:18>> That does look European, dude.
46:20>> Well, more experts have came back later and said, "No, yeah, it's this is a Roman head. It's just a matter of when did it get in that burial?" And to me, they did you saw the dating the the dating of the actual burial was before the Spanish.
46:37And also another good point here is at the time you'll see Jose Garcia Payon, they didn't make a big stink about it.
46:44It wasn't like there was like an attempt to say this was a Roman head back then.
46:47In other words, it wasn't a hoax. Like somebody didn't put it in there while they were doing it. If it was a hoax, they didn't advertise it. Like they found out 30 years later like, "Hey, this is a Roman head." Like 30 years later.
46:59And so, that's really interesting to me.
47:02>> Imagine you're the dude that's like, "I'm going to [ __ ] with everyone.
47:05Message in a bottle type shit." Threw that statue in there, [ __ ] >> It's common, it's happened a lot.
47:10There's a lot of archaeological hoaxes like that.
47:12>> Oh my god. No, no, but I'm saying like what if you actually did it in like 1495 and you knew like yo, they were here >> Right.
47:21Right. my little message here and well, they found it years later.
47:26>> Yeah, we were just in Rome at D D for me, we were in Paris and Rome.
47:30>> I want to go so >> And [snorts] you know, I hadn't been in Rome since I lived there, but I'm always just blown away by all the history and the structures and everything and that looks you know, this is recency bias on my part admittedly, but that >> Yeah.
47:43>> just looks so on brand.
47:45>> I actually I think if you go to the my what I told you to Google, if you go to images, I think my thumbnail that I created shows a comparison.
47:53Uh you can scroll down a little bit here.
47:57>> Those are the Olmecs.
47:57>> Okay.
47:59Well, somewhere out there I have made a comparison photo of known Roman heads like that and yeah, the eyes are the exact same. The hair has the same style.
48:07It's the same. Yeah. And >> How do you how do you also explain like the fact that we go around the world and we see so many pyramid structures that look so similar?
48:17>> So, this comes down to the argument of diffusion versus isolationism and I do think that both once again like we talked about earlier in the last podcast about how the determinism versus free will. I think there's a blend of both here. So, you This earth is not that big in the grand scheme of things and the ancients in the Americas and the ancients in Europe were observing the same stars. They were observing the same things in the sky.
48:48And so it makes sense that some things would develop in isolation and be maybe not I don't even know if coincidentally would be the correct word, but would be similar to each other or that some things that work in one part of the hemis or world would also work well in another part of the world. So, like a pyramid, right? It's like uh it's it's a it's a logical thing to build. You know, you stack up until it goes higher.
49:14But that doesn't mean that diffusion didn't also take place and that there wasn't some cultural diffusion that was you know, going far far far far away.
49:25Actually, I have another If you want to talk about cultural diffusion, this is a Can I tell you about the uh the mystery of the Ts, please?
49:33>> No, you can't. Of course you can tell you don't give a about whatever you want, bro.
49:37>> So, go We're on my PDF here. This is good. Go I don't even know where we're at here.
49:43>> of the Ts you said?
49:44>> windows. Here we go. Go up a little bit to the very start of this.
49:47>> Oh, who just talked to me about this?
49:49Was that Luke or or Michael?
49:53>> Yeah, go up a little to the one more.
49:55Let's go up one more. So, this is cool.
49:56This is something that I've been fascinated with. A lot of people love the T-shaped pillars at Göbekli Tepe, right?
50:03>> Yeah.
50:04>> I'm big into Those are awesome, but I'm big into the T's of the Americas.
50:08>> Hugh was talking about this, right? You know Hugh Newman and his work?
50:11>> I just uh met him uh and uh I presented this at the conference that Hugh was at.
50:17Hugh's presentation at that conference, by the way, was like mind-blowing. I really don't I really don't know a lot about Göbekli Tepe in general, and he was just blowing my mind with some of these solstice and equinox markers that he he threw out there. He got a lot of criticism for it, but then some of those guys that were even criticizing him did some of the math and said, "Hugh, you might be on to something here."
50:40>> Might be on Dude, I agree. Like, he really I knew that was going to be a fun podcast. I wasn't like crazy familiar with his work before he came in. I'm like, "All right, yeah, let's do this.
50:48This sounds like a good idea." And then Dief and I were just like >> Yeah.
50:53>> cuz he had the he had the HDMI and all day. He's like, "And then if you look over here >> Yeah.
50:58>> And we're just like, "Holy shit." But, it was some amazing stuff.
51:01>> Him and Michael Button were my favorite talks at the Quest for the Ancient Civilizations conference. So, here what we have, these are all pictures that I've personally taken.
51:10So, Colorado in the Southwest is where I first heard about the mystery of the T's or the T-shaped window enigma.
51:18And I actually was not familiar with them anywhere other than uh Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, and then a stretch of northern Mexico. It always blew my mind that you could also find these in northern Mexico. And that back in the day, I mean, they didn't have the US-Mexican border. It was just there. You know, people were traversing.
51:39So, if you go down one more.
51:43Here's all the ones that I have personally mapped throughout the Americas. And these are T-shaped windows and doors.
51:51>> Wow.
51:52>> Yeah, and the ones in Peru just blew my mind. We'll get to those in a second, but it all starts with this really good archaeologist. Shout out to Dr. Steve Lexcen. He's in the number 25 right here, the slide 25. If you'll go to the next one.
52:07He uh He >> This guy.
52:10>> Yeah, this guy right here. He has an Oh, he's the best. He's retired now, but I've read all guy's got the best books on the uh American Southwest and the history of the people there.
52:21>> He's alive?
52:22>> He is still alive.
52:23>> We can get him.
52:24>> He is still alive. He's getting up there in age, but uh definitely get him because >> he goes.
52:29>> Yes, sir.
52:30And so um this is one of the big He'd probably laugh at that. I think he's a pretty I think he's a pretty easygoing dude.
52:37>> [snorts] >> Uh This is one of the biggest T windows that you can find in the world, and it really this one's a door. Uh out in Chihuahua, Mexico. And so, if you go to the next slide here, this one's in Chaco Canyon, another big one. This is in New Mexico.
52:55And his whole idea was that these were some type of status symbol.
52:59That you know, it wasn't necessary like necessarily like a physical reason. A lot of people wondered, "Well, is it big like that because they wanted to come in with their whatever they had on their bag and they needed or their back and they needed room?" Some people hypothesized that, "Well, you can poke your head out of it and and shoot a bow and arrow." He thought that this was some type of status symbol. And I think that maybe could be accurate. And I'll tell you why in just a second. Well, mainly because he's the man and he said so and I like I trust his judgment, but um so keep going here.
53:36One thing else to note is that at Chaco Canyon, they found, I believe, 17 skeletons of scarlet macaw parrots in the excavation in New Mexico.
53:46>> Like the macaws from the Amazon?
53:48>> Yeah.
53:49>> They're beautiful birds.
53:50>> But they were they had they found 17 of them in New Mexico.
53:54>> Yeah.
53:54>> What were they doing in New Mexico? And they the truth is they were all trading with each other. They found Colorado turquoise down in like Guatemala, I believe.
54:02>> It's not possible. I just to poke a hole in that. It's not possible that the macaws had some sort of different evolutionary with them, [snorts] you know, reason to be in that environment.
54:12>> Not native to New Mexico. They were In fact, these ones were like kind of deformed in meaning that they were probably even bred maybe in captivity um and then traded along the routes. Uh they were very highly revered They they were very valuable for their their feathers. They would uh make all kinds of stuff out of their feathers.
54:33>> Yeah, they are good dude. You got to see those things in person. They're amazing.
54:36>> They have also found cacao in uh Chaco Canyon, and the the ingredient for chocolate.
54:42>> Uh copper bells. So, all of this was being traded from Mesoamerica, you know, Guatemala, all the way up north. And so, if we keep going here, I uh went on this expedition to Piedras Negras, Guatemala. Right side is Guatemala, left side is Mexico. And you can play the video on the next screen.
55:01Um oh, yeah, this That's right. We can't play the video on the PDF. So, here's me on the boat.
55:07And if you keep going, eventually I find this T-shape.
55:13Oh, I guess we can't play the video, can we?
55:16Um yeah, basically here at Piedras Negras, I found another um T-shaped window.
55:21And this was the furthest [clears throat] south I'd seen any. There's a lot more at Palenque in Chiapas, Mexico. There's some in Puebla, Mexico that I've taken pictures of.
55:31And when I was down in Peru, someone told me, "You should check out Revash. I've heard there's T-shapes there. And Revash is a Chachapoyas burial like mausoleum that they have in the um high up in the Andes or the Amazonian Andes that look similar to the cliff dwellings that you find out in the American Southwest and they have T-shaped windows on them.
55:55Um and so the symbol of the T, like what is it? If you keep going there's a Maya glyph that looks like a T.
56:05Uh keep on going.
56:07Called Ik'way.
56:08So here's me and in Chiapas with some of the T's in the background. Keep on going down until you find the glyph. There it is right in one more.
56:16And Ik' means wind.
56:19And my good friend >> am I looking at here?
56:21>> This right here is a Maya glyph that has that T symbol in it. And remember >> re-rendering. It's a drawing of it.
56:28>> It's a drawing, but it's a known Maya symbol. And Ik' means wind.
56:35And my good friend Luke Caverns called me one time when he was in one of those Mayan temples out there.
56:40And he's like, "Dude, I found some T windows and as soon as I got in there it's like it was this natural air conditioner. Like it was like capturing the wind and and it was coming through with pressure.
56:53And so he was wondering, you know, Ik' wind, like is that what is that what these windows are for? It's just a way to capture more air and filter it through.
57:02Who knows, but you see it all throughout the Americas and all the way from Colorado down to Peru you can find these amazing T windows. And so that's always been one of my favorite little mysteries of the Americas is why do these T windows keep popping up in cultures that definitely were not in contact with each other. But with diffusion, the reason I brought all this up as we were talking about isolationism versus diffusion ideas and good ideas especially always travel further than humans even do.
57:30>> Right.
57:30>> Like the idea itself will travel.
57:33Sometimes that idea is naturally from isolationism because a good idea in over here is a good idea over here. Sometimes it's through word of mouth and just cultural diffusion. So >> God, I wish they wrote it all down.
57:48Better yet, had iPhones to capture Snapchats along the way. It would have been cool.
57:52>> I know, right? I think if like, you know, the time machine scenario, like if you could have a time machine >> [snorts] >> Oh, that's an impossible question.
58:00>> I think for me it's somewhere in the Americas.
58:03>> For sure. I could never answer that.
58:05>> like the height of the uh the height of the Inca Empire would be really interesting.
58:11>> I think, you know what? I think Mike Relm asked me that when I was on his podcast. Maybe it wasn't when we were on air. And I was like, I can't answer that. But like the only one I was like, well, I guess maybe like ancient Rome.
58:22>> Right.
58:22>> Just [ __ ] live in the middle of it.
58:24There's so many places I'd want to I want to I want to know where the [ __ ] aliens at. You know what I mean?
58:29Like >> Yeah.
58:31>> Send me back to like 3,000 Egypt. Let me see some [ __ ] You know what I mean?
58:35>> You want to talk about aliens?
58:37Or through mommies?
58:38>> Yeah, well, we're we're going to get to the mommies in a second. But before we do that you believe aliens have been here?
58:44>> Um yeah.
58:47Uh have been here to Earth?
58:49Um I interviewed one of the more credible UFO stories I've ever had heard in my life is I interviewed a guy named Ronnie Johnson.
59:00It's on my YouTube channel. It's one of my most watched videos.
59:03And whatever these I don't know if they're if they're us or if they're aliens, but like the UFO phenomenon's 100% real.
59:13For sure. Um >> Meaning seeing things that you can't explain.
59:19>> Right. UFOs.
59:20>> Yeah.
59:21>> I believe that some of this might be like Carl Young talked about the electromagnetic spectrum and psyched realities and like uh uh archetypes. You know, that throughout history people have always seen stuff in the sky and it's always changed a little bit. In the 1800s it was like these weird blimps. Uh you know, you go back to France and what it's like 500 AD or whatever they saw the crosses in the sky.
59:50And that maybe these UFOs, these metallic flying objects are some type of archetype in our consciousness.
59:57Um and some of it's maybe conscious you know, George Knapp I've read his book on Hunt for the Skinwalkers.
60:04So maybe some of it's uh consciousness but like are they physical beings coming from another planet um and visiting Earth? Like I don't know the answer to that. But I do think there's like demons in the Bible.
60:17>> Mhm.
60:18>> Um these these entities like probably exist and probably are visiting us.
60:25Yeah.
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