0:01Welcome to the show, Matt. It's great to have you.
0:03>> Thank you for having me on.
0:04>> Of course. Of course. So, we are here.
0:06We're recording this a couple days before crazy the 25th anniversary of 9/11, which has just been like, holy [ __ ] I'm getting old thinking about that. But, you know, it is a seinal moment that changed the country for sure. Definitely changed the world.
0:26And it also was a tragic day where just under 3,000 people lost their lives and both of you did lose your fathers that day. So, you know, I I can't even fathom that. All the years I've been talking about this on the show, all the years I talked about it before, it's just like unbelievable to me that there were two buildings that used to stand right there and now aren't. And, you know, people had family members that just went to work on a normal day and never came home. But David, you and I last year had a chance to go through some of your story. I'm going to have you do some of that again today because that was just
0:58one piece of that podcast last year, just for people who didn't hear it. But Matt, for people that aren't aware of your story and and your dad, how how old were you on 911?
1:08>> Was 9 years old. My dad was 38 [clears throat] years old. I'm the oldest of four boys. My youngest brother was born um June 2001. So, um, yeah, dude. Just, uh, went to work like it was a normal day.
1:26And what's crazy is that my dad would go into the city super early in the morning to work out at the gym in the Marriott Hotel.
1:33>> Missed that, slept in, missed the morning workout.
1:36>> And I mean, for him sleeping in didn't mean [ __ ] right? Like it was just he got to the city at I don't know probably 7:00 a.m. So as I remember and David I know remembers too like it was just such a perfect day.
1:51Crystal clear blue sky like the way I describe it because if you only know the feeling if you're in the northeast that transition from summer to fall >> like you could feel it in the air was like palpable. You could feel it.
2:04>> Hey guys, three quick things. Number one, if you haven't subscribed, please subscribe. It's a huge huge help. Number two, if you'd like to join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes, you can join via the link in my description or in the pin comment below. And number three, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make content from the show and make money, you can join via the Discord link in my description below. And um um I got pulled out of class at about 9:00 in the morning and I walked into the hallway with a classmate of mine.
2:36Superintendent of my school walked into the class.
2:38>> Where did you live?
2:39>> I lived in Marstown, New Jersey. Went to a small school in New Vernon called Harding Township Middle School.
2:44>> Okay.
2:44>> Like maybe 300 kids total in the whole school, K through 8. My class was considered big. It had 50 kids. M >> um and very sheltered community I feel and the teachers were young. They didn't know what to say or what to do. I don't even know if there was a TV in the uh office. Like I really don't know if they were watching this unfold. I can't remember.
3:04>> I never saw the footage in school. So, I walk into the hallway with my classmate and my brother Nick, who was seven, was standing in the hallway with his teacher and my classmate's brother. And they huddled us together and they were like, "Small, we think a small plane hit your dad's building. They're they're both safe. There's nothing to worry about.
3:22They're evacuating the tower." And that was that. My classmates's dad worked on the 33rd floor. I had no problem getting out. And then they took us and brought us to this room we called the computer room. It was like the luxury playing computer gizmos and gadgets and like games like that, right?
3:39>> And it was so what was bizarre to me was watching the kids get pulled out of class >> and it was like every 20 minutes you'd see moms and dads running down the hallway pulling kids out and my mom didn't come to school to get us.
3:50>> Oh, it was moms and dads coming in.
3:52>> Moms and dads. There were dads, too.
3:54Yeah.
3:54>> Oh, wow.
3:55>> So, a lot of people who either weren't in the city yet or were on their way in, turned around, came like everyone was freaking out.
4:01>> Yeah. And so I sat in this classroom.
4:06No one in the school knew that my dad had called my mom. And so I can kind of backtrack. So leading up to 911, >> Mhm.
4:15>> my dad had what I consider a spiritual premonition. Um my dad came from very humble beginnings. My grandparents came here right after the war, World War II, from Italy. Barely spoke English when they came here.
4:28>> Where in Italy? Uh my grandfather from Parma, my uh hold on my yeah grandfather's from Parma, my nun was from Napoli. And so um came here after the war and uh lived in Fort Le, New Jersey. And my dad had a sister who died as an infant. He also had an aunt who died of ALS. So about two weeks before 911, he woke up in the middle of the night screaming, pointing to the foot of his bed. My mom woke up with him and he was like insisting that his late aunt was standing there healthy holding his infant sister and like that was his they were like telling him to come.
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5:48>> Some crazy [ __ ] >> Did Now, did you know I mean, you were young.
5:51>> I didn't know this at the time. I didn't tell you.
5:52>> No, I didn't know this at the time. But your mom always >> my mom and and he was insisting that it was not a dream like that he that they were there. So for the two weeks leading up to 911 after that night he was just going on and on and on about like I'm I feel like I'm going to die young. Like I want to be cremated when I die. Like all these crazy things. And um the weekend before he said to my mom like I'm going to quit. Like I'm I'm not happy. He was having some issues at work.
6:18>> Wait. He worked at Caner.
6:19>> He worked at Caner.
6:20>> What did he do? He was the uh managing director of interest rate options. He worked on the 105th floor.
6:24>> Oh. At age 38.
6:26>> Age 38. He was very successful. He worked very very hard.
6:29>> Um and he was like, "I'm going to quit.
6:31I'm I'm not happy."
6:33>> So that morning, 8:49, 3 minutes after the plane hit, he called her from his cell phone. And that was what was kind of rare is that what people don't always really know is it was really hard to actually get cell phone service in those offices even though there was the antenna. So he got through and all the stories of the people getting through on their cell phones because the office signs were all dead is miraculous.
6:57>> It's so that's a strange thing that gets ignored.
6:59>> Gets ignored.
7:00>> Yeah.
7:01>> So >> even today you have problems in those buildings getting service.
7:05>> Yeah. So he gets through to her, picks up the phone. My mom picks up the phone.
7:11She's like, "What's going on?" He's like, "Hey." Um, she thought seeing his cell phone pop up on the house phone caller ID that he walked out cuz he never would call her during the day.
7:19>> So, did she already know the Tower was there? Cuz he only called her 3 minutes after.
7:23>> No idea.
7:23>> Yeah.
7:24>> So, he liked to pull pranks and jokes.
7:27So, my mom answers and she's like, he's like, "Michelle, do you have the TV on?"
7:32We think of a small plane hit. I'm [clears throat] gathering my stuff, beginning to evacuate. And my mom was like, "This John, this better not be some sort of sick joke."
7:40And when she said those words, the line cut off. He had actually said to her too, "Do you have the TV on?" So line cuts off. She turns the TV on. And they just now are covering it, right? It's three minutes later and all these like, "We don't know what hit." Like all the reports of we think a small plane hit.
7:58They didn't know at that time.
7:59>> They were saying like a Yeah, exactly.
8:02>> So she sees a smoke billowing out of the building and uh back and forth. They were calling each other and she would answer and just hear static and when she kept calling his cell phone cuz the office line was dead, >> he'd answer and there was static and finally he got through to her one last time and basically just told her that he loved her and goodbye.
8:20>> What time was that?
8:22>> Probably I don't know. I asked her if she ever pulled the logs from like Verizon. She never did, but um she wrote a letter to him when we buried him and 8:49 was the number she wrote for the first call. It didn't say the second call. It had to have been right before 9:00 because my dad's brother, my uncle, was the last one to get through to him.
8:40Right at 9:00 in the morning and no one spoke to him again after that.
8:44>> Whoa. What floor was he on?
8:46>> 105.
8:47>> 105.
8:48>> Yeah.
8:49So it hit at 8:46 and it's unfortunately a very famous story that Caner in particularly where both of your fathers worked lost like everybody cuz they were all above the the hit zone at >> 101 to 105.
9:04>> Yeah. So [snorts] the the smoke and the temperatures im as far as I've been told like in the first 10 minutes just got to insane levels like almost unservivable levels right there even before the second plane >> hit the other tower and that kind of lines up with like the last time your dad talked to your uncle was 9:00 that's not that long after.
9:27>> So what's interesting is I've done a lot of extensive research over the years. That was where my first obsession regarding or addiction that I dealt with was 9/11.
9:39And it stems from when I came home from school later that day and I saw the footage and then when the footage was being played on that TV, there was a family friend sitting on the couch. She changed the channel when the buildings come down on this TV replay and she went over to a Spanish news station and the first thing I saw was someone jumping.
9:56>> Oh, >> that [ __ ] me up and changed me. I was 9 years old. That is what affected me tremendously. So that led me down this road of research and then these documentaries started coming out and these families from Caner were being interviewed and they were like, "Oh, I was, you know, looking at these photos of all the people in the windows and I was zooming in and I was enhancing them, enlarging them and they would say how they'd contact the photographers." So I started emailing the photographers. When I went to high school, I took the train to school, same train that would go into New York City. So, I emailed these guys
10:27and I was like, "Hey, can I come to your galleries and see these photos?" None of them responded to me, >> but none of them responded.
10:34>> None of them responded to me. I think they just were like, "We, you know, this is some grieving kid. Like, what do you say? Like, how do you do this?" Right.
10:42>> I would think that if you wanted to come see the pictures that they took though, if they if they saw the emails, I got to assume someone did. Yeah.
10:49>> That you would respond to that though.
10:51That's a little strange.
10:52>> Yeah. A response, right? Yeah. Nothing.
10:54>> Yeah.
10:55So, it's kind of weird to you, right?
10:56It's kind of weird not to get a lot of response.
10:58>> Nothing. Yeah. The photographer, one that I reached out to in particular, was known to be sort of a >> like obviously he's an artist, >> if you will. So, he viewed it as like I think he only was selective with the families that he met with in the beginning. I I want to say he only did that in the early years. I reached out to him probably five years later. So, like I think a lot of them were like out of sight, out of mind type of thing.
11:26>> Yeah, I feel like this kind of transcends art though.
11:29>> I agree with you. Listen, I agree with you.
11:31>> I would I I look back like I look back like years later and I was like, did you ever respond? And you never did.
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13:08for me. And it just has been hard for him to get his dad to agree to look at certain things. And I described what my dad was wearing and asked him if he could look through it and he said that he would and he at least got back and this was honestly this is recent. This was over the last few years that I contacted him.
13:26>> I saw him post something on this Reddit page and I personally reached out to him. There are a lot of people I talked to who were there that day, whether they worked in the buildings or more likely were right by there and were looking up when this was happening and were escaping the dust cloud when everything fell, who will not talk about it. And I fully understand [snorts] that because it was just every single beat of that day from the things they had to immediately accept were happening, which is like watching people make the decision of do I wait here and die or do I jump to my death >> all the way to like thinking the world's
14:01ending when it comes down. It's just >> the post-traumatic stress of that is so insane that like I I totally get it.
14:08Well, what I was going to say before is that there were reports that the 100th floor and the 101st floor um where the how the smoke went hit those floors harder at first.
14:21>> Why why did they say that?
14:22>> I don't know exactly. There are pockets of floors pockets of the caner offices that were actually immune to the smoke and the fire, mostly the smoke hitting them until later. That's why as you like look at some of the photos right as the building's coming down the smoke is dark and aid but you could see people in the windows still >> right >> there were still hundreds of people standing in the windows like people don't realize that >> not and now it makes you wonder how many people are behind them right that's >> that's what's hard to think about but and then another thing too is the windows on the world restaurant which
14:59was above the caner floors also for whatever reason um got hit harder by the smoke sooner than some of the pockets of the offices.
15:08>> And wasn't it, it's been a while, but people, they couldn't access the roof either.
15:13>> Locked.
15:14>> It was locked.
15:15>> There's a kid that worked at my dad. He was 23 years old and my dad was his boss and he made a call to his parents and the rumor was that he said, "We're going to try to get to the roof."
15:27>> So, I believe that >> my dad they tried to go up. Now what I don't know like did they get up there and it was locked like by that point like there was no >> and they couldn't that was the other thing the the helicopter pilots there like some of the guys who were flying around there were news pilots I think there were other types of pilots as well they were making attempts to get even anywhere near the roof and scientifically it was not >> there was only one pocket on like the northwest corner I think it was it's in the Nat Geo documentary >> where they can literally you see how close they get and you could you you
16:03could see the people in the windows like waving at them standing in the windows waving at them and the the pilot said um you know we tried to get there but there was no one there was no one on the roof >> like >> that's wild >> you know um so you're you're in school though 9:00 you remember seeing your seven-year-old brother pulled out of class and you're seeing a bunch of moms and dads come and pick up >> their kids but your mom's not there So, do did the teachers just like take the principal's office? What happened?
16:33>> We sat in that computer room for the rest of the day basically and then went back to class and then got on the bus and went home and when I got home, >> you went back to class >> like for like maybe a little bit and then we were like it was a very no one knew what to do, >> right?
16:46>> No one knew what to do. You know, I I think uh most of the afternoon was in that computer room. You know, we might have been in the principal's office for a little bit, too. Did you have any concept at that point that your dad might not be getting out of those buildings?
17:02>> No, I had no idea.
17:03>> No clue.
17:03>> No idea.
17:05>> The teachers didn't even know about the phone calls. So, I think that no one >> I don't think people realized the severity. I think people thought that those people were going to be able to get out.
17:16>> Yeah.
17:16>> You know, >> now who you took the bus home from school? So, when you got home, was your mom there?
17:22>> Oh, yeah. There was probably there was like 30 or 40 cars parked in the driveway. I I really I kind of struggled for a long time with why my mom kept me in school and then I understood when I got home why she decided to do it and I can understand it and I've done a lot of interviews and things over the years where people I've seen people like say like how could how could she do that and all that stuff but it's like for us to go home and then see the TV footage and then try to pretend like things are normal like she was trying to preserve of our last chance of normaly, >> right?
18:00>> Cuz it was [ __ ] from there on out. I mean, we didn't go back to school for 3 weeks. Um, it's like, how do you describe the commotion?
18:09>> People running to the house in the days after, and I'm sure you remember this too, like bringing food, like trays of food, and there's nowhere else to put the food. Like, you can't even fit it in the fridge anymore. Like, no one knew what to do. And, you know, again, she has a three-month-old at the house, too. Oh, and the youngest was my three months old. My youngest brother, >> my other brother, Michael, was three years old.
18:31>> So, >> so you got a seven, a three, and [clears throat] an infant.
18:34>> And an infant.
18:36>> So, it's, you know, they just didn't know.
18:39>> I I take issue with people who play the hindsight 2020 game on something like that. You're reacting moment by moment, right?
18:46>> It like [snorts] we know all about this now, but I remember that day. I was seven, eight years old and it's one of the first things I can viscerally remember every single part of the day in my life. Like there's things I can remember from before I was eight, but not like >> every single piece that day. I know every minute of it. And >> it was so chaotic and I was in South Jersey, so there's fewer people who have exposure to people in the towers.
19:11But, >> you know, for people to like try to determine how you're going to respond in the instant to that when you're also watching on TV just like everyone else wondering if your loved one is going down with those buildings. Like, come on. That's crazy.
19:25>> Also, too, I think people don't understand how different the world was back then.
19:29>> Oh, yeah.
19:30>> You know, like you would I don't know if you could still smoke on planes at the time. Maybe.
19:34>> God, it was a better time for that.
19:35>> Yeah. Still smoke on planes maybe. But like the security there was no security.
19:40Amanda, were you alive?
19:41>> No, >> you weren't alive.
19:42>> You're post 911.
19:43>> Wow.
19:43>> I was born in 03.
19:45>> That's Wow.
19:45>> Yeah.
19:46>> Wow.
19:46>> There you go.
19:47>> It's just different.
19:48>> It's different time.
19:49>> Just different.
19:50>> Same thing with like how the hijackers got their stuff on the plane. Like it just it was just different.
19:55>> Yeah.
19:55>> You book a flight now, you and you look down the receipt of all the taxes and there's a September 11th tax.
20:00>> Like people don't look at that probably and like know what that is, right? But it's there.
20:04>> We can talk about that today, too.
20:05Obviously, there's a lot there's still an ongoing lawsuit with this and everything.
20:09kind of wild. So, we're going to get to a lot today, people, but I want to make sure we get through the starts of some of the stories here. So, when was when you got home and saw the 30 to 40 cars in the driveway and you went inside, did your mom at that point like, you know, cuz you're old enough, you're not like three. Did she pull you aside and say like, "Hey, we haven't been able to reach your father." Or did that come later?
20:30>> That came later. I walked through the through the hallway through the kitchen and as I kind of entered the kitchen area, there was like family members.
20:40Cell phones weren't as much of a common thing back then, right? So, >> but you still have people on cell phones and there was these newly established um hotlines and hospitals obviously, but there was hotlines for the hospitals as well. People were calling in to see if you'd heard anything or if person was there. [sighs and gasps] So, I kept walking and there were so many people crying and then um as I turned the corner, that's when I saw the footage. And then when I saw the other piece that I talked about before, uh I that's I I physically reacted to that, you know. That's when I started I was
21:12like [clears throat] I was extremely upset. My grandmother saw that and grabbed me and kind of brought me outside and said, "Go, you know, to go play with my friend who was my neighbor."
21:23>> Was that your father's mom?
21:24>> That was my mom's.
21:25>> Your mom's mom. And uh you know at that point I it was you know it was too late.
21:31>> And then I just remember how people were coming in and out of the house all day long. Um over the next two days that we had like a memorial at our house like a not a memorial but like a prayer service. Um and then a week later they came to the house to tell us that they found him.
21:48>> Oh they found him.
21:49>> They found him. So it's crazy because Dave and I started talking about this.
21:55So all these years I thought that they found my father 3 days later.
22:02That was the for whatever reason that was the day that I thought he was found.
22:07He was found basically two days later and he was identified by his wallet that was in his pocket.
22:15So, um, I went to the memorial and I met with the chief medical examiner, the doctor over there, and I looked at his file and his report and everything like that. And so, basically, he was mostly found two days later. He wasn't identified fully.
22:40um I should say he was identified by the wallet and then the rest of the remains weren't confirmed until different points. Right? So they came to the house to tell us that they found him due to the wallet and then [snorts] as time went by we you know we buried him. We buried him 10 days later but we we we continued to get remains that were cremated um >> per his wishes too.
23:02>> Per his wishes. Yeah.
23:03>> That's pretty that premonition too is is pretty insane. That's crazy.
23:07>> You wonder that's the kind of [ __ ] that makes me just be like, what type of dimension are we tapped into here?
23:13>> You want to hear a crazier dimension?
23:14>> Sure.
23:15>> My dad's father was 16 years oldish, maybe a little bit older. I I always mess this up. He was taken him and his father were taken during World War II after the Germans and the Italians broke off the Axis.
23:34Okay. So now the Nazis invaded various parts of Italy.
23:37>> Mhm.
23:38>> They also, we were not Jewish, but we they captured non-Jewish people, Italians, and made them essentially their prisoners of war, right?
23:46>> And they were brought to forced labor camps.
23:48>> Mhm.
23:49>> They were not killed by gas and all the other things that the Jews back then, the Italian Jews were killed by in the concentration camps, but they were basically worked to death. My grandfather's P number was 911.
24:04I'll pull the photo. We'll we'll get the photo of that. That's when when I say like dimensional crazy [ __ ] weird [ __ ] like >> Shiny had 80 years to prevent 911.
24:15>> Yeah. Exactly. [laughter] Exactly.
24:17>> God damn it.
24:18>> Yeah.
24:19>> So it's like >> you you got that whole like dark comedy thing.
24:23>> I love it though. I love it.
24:24>> I mean he does it for a living. I hope he's [laughter] got it. But holy [ __ ] >> Yeah. He's got a good and he delivers it too. Isn't that crazy though? Like >> that's crazy.
24:31>> Wow. So, I don't know, man. It's some weird stuff.
24:35>> That is some weird stuff.
24:36>> Really weird.
24:36>> All right. So, we'll come back on the timeline, but let's come over to you, David, for people that didn't hear our episode last year.
24:43>> Let's pretend no one's heard that, obviously, cuz you know, we do a lot of episodes here. And and that one also, I think, is one of the more underrated podcasts we've done. That was one of my favorite podcasts last year. But >> you you obviously have your own show where you go through all this stuff with all different types of people from all different backgrounds [snorts] who lose loved ones in different ways and kind of how they deal with their grief, how they deal with death and the concept of it.
25:08And we'll link that down below.
25:10Obviously, everyone should go check that out. But you lost your father on 911.
25:15Where were you when you found out the towers were hit? Honestly, very similar experience that we've had, which is why I'm kind of sitting here locked in. I guess I got super sorry to I'll get to it in a second, but I got like super emotional as soon as you said your dad's age because my dad was 46 and also seemed to be applying. He might have been more successful at 38 than my father. But besides that, [laughter] I'm 37.
25:36>> Yeah.
25:37>> And so I'm not quite at the age of my father, which is a thing. You know, my sisters are getting closer to 46 and it's just a weird trippy idea and I'm already going to be your dad's age. And to think how young that is. Obviously, they're younger people. I mean, I know that, but to like hear it >> sitting next to me, it just it just hits differently. Plus, we're both baby boys at the time. I just >> hit me different. But, um, >> similar to Matt's story, I was left in school.
26:01>> And I I had a similar a similar thought process, but I I I did always sit with the idea, was it better to pull us into the chaos? Like, she didn't know. And I watch it live. If I snuck to the TV, watched it live, see my mom freak out, like I think that would have been a worse decision. And so I back that decision I think our moms made.
26:18>> But my I feel like you even have a better memory at nine or nine, right?
26:22Yeah.
26:22>> Because that day was like split in two for me where >> I remember first period came my buddy Jeff who was late so he apparently caught the 846 first impact comes up to me knowing my dad worked in the trade center and he said, "Yo, Dave, doesn't your dad work in the World Trade Center?" I go, "Yep." And he says, "A plane flew into the building." And that was just difficult to understand. And I didn't know what it meant, nor did I think it was as serious as I don't think anyone thought it was as serious when they first heard it or saw it perhaps.
26:49And I didn't know what that meant. So I tried going to the main office and they didn't let me make a phone call. And similar to my your place, a lot of people were a commuter town. I believe Middletown, my town lost the most people outside of the New York jurisdiction, like 30 some odd people.
27:02>> So a lot of students had families and whatnot that worked there. So they're probably trying to keep it under control like you alluded to. No one knew what to do.
27:08>> Yeah.
27:09>> Didn't allow me to make a phone call. My mom left me in school for similar reasons. I was safe. I was right down the street. Perhaps it's giving me the rest of that day. Even though I was still paranoid and didn't know what was going on, it was as normal as it could have been as opposed to going home.
27:22>> And the bell rang and that was the time to go back. And one thing I get tripped up on is >> while my imagination is running the entire day wondering what was going on, knowing something took place, it was actually happening. So it was my imagination versus this reality that was actually occurring. And while I was unsure of what my father did and happened to him and what was going on, it was happening.
27:42>> You know what I mean? While that wondering was happening, that's just something that is kind of going in retrospect.
27:46>> But by the time it came to walk home like 2:30, 3:00, so it was all done. I'm walking with my best friend James and it was quiet from what I remember and what he expressed to me. And I remember getting around the bend similar to yours again. I saw cars outside and that was the moment where I knew [ __ ] went down.
28:01I was like, "Why are there cars outside in my culde-sac a Tuesday at 3:00?" I was like, "Okay." Like >> even at 12, >> I knew something went down. And it's always interesting the nine and 12. It's a small gap now, but it's a big gap then. You know what I mean? The level of understanding for better or for worse.
28:16There there is a big developmental uh aspect there. So I just wonder what those feelings were between us as you explained.
28:22>> Get to the house, me and James get separated. I don't know who separated us. I remember someone trying to keep me away from the TV and I start walking to the living room. I wanted to see what was going on. And I remember seeing my cousin's face and I see Joey's eyes right now and as I'm he's looking at me was obviously fearful but now looking back again the whole timeline jumping like he just he just knew my life was about to get flipped upside down in about seven paces. Looked at the TV for the first time that's when I saw the footage and I remember everything just came out of me and just broke down
28:53crying. But the difference between my experience which I'm for lack of a better word slightly jealous of is everything blacked out.
29:00>> Yeah. I don't remember anything after that. Obviously that day at a minimum like everything else was scattered beyond that, but I don't remember anything after 3:00 when I first saw the footage. Just >> Yeah. When did you don't remember a like a couple days after that?
29:12>> There's Yeah. That's like I don't I don't remember anything. Um when I say anything, I'm jumping around, but I I don't really remember that next day, the day after. I remember things happening.
29:21I just can't do the patchwork of when that was.
29:24>> Like I know things I was doing. I remember the memorial service, which I don't know if it was a couple weeks later. We didn't >> we didn't find anything. I think my dad got identified I think a while after and I went to the 911 to look at his file. I just don't recall the date when they first they first found one piece of him.
29:38They found one thing, one part of him.
29:40That's it. And they identified him by the one piece that they found, but that was a while after. And so we didn't get any confirmation. It was just a knowing.
29:48And I remember asking my mom on on my my podcast, when do y'all remember knowing he wasn't coming back? And my mom said that next morning. And of course, she wanted to hold hope for her children, but she was just trying to put the logistical pieces together. Smoke and he was so high up. There was no, it was almost no shot. As much as you wanted to hold on, but her waking up, she just knew [snorts] that he wasn't coming back. And I don't recall her having a sit down about this is what happened. It was just like we knew just as much as I saw the footage for the first time.
30:17Besides it being violent, like you just knew like, oh no, he's even at 12 is he's not coming home.
30:23>> Yeah. You see, I I would imagine too, like trying to put myself back on that day, but like especially the adults that day who have a better concept of life than an 8-year-old would have. When you see that come down like that, you got to be thinking that's an unservivable event. It's it's 100 what is it? 110 stories, >> you know, coming on itself. And it was like >> wasn't long either. You had the first one fall the last one fell at 10:08, right? Something like that. 10 1029. It was 102 minutes.
30:54>> 102 minutes.
30:55>> And so the south tower was hit 16 17 minutes after the north tower, but fell first. Yeah. Right.
31:02>> Yep.
31:02>> When did that fall? Do we have the time on that?
31:04>> 59, I think.
31:06>> 959, >> I think. So, >> that's >> Damn. The south tower was that quick?
31:10>> It was that quick. Yeah.
31:11>> Wow.
31:11>> Well, it's funny you mentioned about like the Was it right?
31:14>> 959. So, the blackout stuff because I after that piece of the footage that I saw, my grandma telling me to leave, the rest of the things that I remember are scattered, too.
31:27>> And like even I had to like fact check so many people in my family when I was writing my book because I was like, did I dream this or did this happen? I had to ask questions. I was like interviewing everyone.
31:39>> Yeah.
31:39>> Yeah. My mom like my mom wouldn't even remember certain things. So I also realized like okay like she was going through her own grief and trauma.
31:47Interesting though like your mom sent you the next day. For us it was two days later the 13th which is eerie to me because that's when he was found. That's when we had that prayer service and there's like people sitting on our lawn with candles and then there was like this massive gust of wind apparently which I remember it but vaguely. And my mom turned to my grandfather her dad and said he's not coming home. She still held on to belief and hope that he might. But we had family who worked in the downtown. My I had an uncle who worked in the trade center, too. And one of my uncles, my mom's cousin, came
32:22home. He took him hours to get back to New Jersey.
32:25>> Did he like do the whole walk?
32:27>> He did a walk and then like had like took like a a small boat with someone or something like that.
32:31>> It might have taken one of the fairies over here.
32:33>> It was something like that. And then like car like hitched a ride somehow. It was some crazy story. He He told me it before, but I forget right now. When he got to my mom, he got to our house that night. He said to my mom, "I hope we find him." That's what he said to my mom. Like, he knew like there was no [ __ ] chance. He said, "I hope we find him."
32:52And so like I hear these stories and I've been told these stories as the years have gone by and like I always will like break down when I hear it. But it's I think people don't understand if they weren't in New York City and like so for me where my [ __ ] up brain goes is when I'm there downtown and you see how big those pools are and you have to realize like those were buildings >> and I don't think people understand how catastrophic it really was.
33:24That's that's where I kind of wrestle with this thought like they don't people don't realize like this was like a war zone on a beautiful sunny September day downtown Manhattan turned into like a war zone like they don't get that >> especially after 25 years you see it so much it's almost it's so much in your face that >> not that it gets numb but I made like a post the other day just talking whatever comes out of me I don't know what I say sometimes but >> I was like yeah we can just watch our dad die and obviously other people are too but sometimes we're looking at it like this is obviously catastrophic
33:55violent event. Everyone knows that we're watching it, but it's almost oddly pushed to the side. And maybe I'm wrong that it's we're watching this event, but we're forgetting that we're watching thousands of people die.
34:04>> Correct.
34:05>> On video one by one.
34:07>> I said that this morning. I said anyone can access my dad's final moments on YouTube. Like that's where >> I will never compare my loss, our loss with someone else who lost a parent in any way. And it's it's always traumatic no matter what. But I think that where it goes over a lot of people's heads is >> they had maybe they had a goodbye, it was private, they were able to grieve in private. We will never have private grieving.
34:36>> Never. And then you and like I said to my mom the other day from the 20th anniversary to the 25th now like this all feels like one blur to me of like things I've done throughout the years whether it's media things like that. and all the calls start coming in on the monumental years, but the years in between, the days in between are the days that like I get tangled up in it.
34:58You know, I'll be honest, like when I went to the memorial to meet with that medical examiner back in June, I've been in a really good spot with my descent into looking at the footage and I struggle with that because that's where I wanted to I felt like I looked at that footage so obsessively to connect in a weird way with my dad.
35:17Anyway, I've been at a really good place with that. And when I went to the memorial and met with that woman, she's really sweet and really nice and knowledgeable, it it sent me down a little bit of a spiral like in the in the weeks after. Like I was definitely um I was affected by it. I'll be I'll be honest. Like I was affected by it. And we had spoken and when we got off when I got off the phone call with you, I called her and set up the appointment and I was like, I just got to do this.
35:41And I knew it would be difficult to do, but I was like, I have to do it. Mhm.
35:45>> You know, I've been saying I'm going to do it for 2 years. I just have to go meet with her and see what this is all about.
35:49>> But I see your point completely that like you getting to have your private moment to go do that. You're still examining something that's an extremely public event that the entire world gets to examine as well. It's a strange dynamic.
36:01>> You get to the memorial and you have and it's also the World Cup. So there's a lot of tourists that were in the city.
36:07Well, I always wrestle with this because when I go to the memorial and you see people standing there at the pools and you you see look, it's hot. It's the summer, right? You see kids sitting on the pools on the names. You see people taking selfies and then it just to me I don't know. I try not to get emotionally attached to it.
36:26>> Sure.
36:26>> And I have to understand that people don't have the same connection, but it's it's still difficult.
36:31>> How many times have you been to the pools, would you say, over the years?
36:34probably maybe less than 10 times total.
36:38>> Less than 10. Okay.
36:39>> So, you know, as someone who didn't lose family in in the event, >> even me, every time I go by those things when I have to be in that part of Manhattan, you cannot not stop.
36:52>> Yeah.
36:52>> You can't not stop and like stand there and it's never [clears throat] for like 30 seconds, you know? you're there >> for a couple minutes because I I I really >> the way you described it a few minutes ago about how it was a war zone and the and you realize the scope of the fact that there were two buildings standing right there. It really hits you. But as you were pointing out for people who haven't been there before, they have all the names pretty beautifully carved in along the edge of every single person that perished in the towers and and and on 911. And you know, it's a really solemn thing. And maybe I'll say this,
37:27probably the World Cup wasn't the best time to be going there because you're going to see more of that stuff you don't like.
37:32>> But I will say, most of the times I go there, you know, >> I I I think a lot of people there's something about it when they're there that the majority of people, they get it.
37:43>> Yeah.
37:43>> And they're like, "Woo!"
37:44>> Yeah. you know, and and I and I think I hope people listening to this who maybe have just walked by that before, not really thought much of it or, you know, wouldn't think of memorials like this understand the gravity of that and how it affects, you know, living victims of of of of that event because it's a serious thing. It doesn't matter how many years will pass that that's that's, you know, your guys' lives were completely upended. Yeah.
38:07>> In one day.
38:08>> Yeah.
38:09>> How how well do you remember your dad?
38:12>> I remember him pretty well. I mean, things have sadly faded as time has gone by. You know, I have um I have his uh voicemail recording, like you know, when you'd call a cell phone. I have that saved. I have like home videos. Like I I did lose remembering what his voice sounded like for a long time. And I have to kind of play that back to remember it.
38:35>> Do you remember when you started to forget that? Like how old you were?
38:38>> I mean, probably early teenage years, I would say. It's hard to hold on to it. Like you you don't Yeah, you lose it, you know, you lose it. Um, but I do remember him pretty well. And it's interesting because I don't have many memories pre 911 anymore. Like I can't think back. Kids say like, "Oh, people say like, "Oh, I remember what it was like when I was in kindergarten." Like, I don't remember anything like that.
39:03>> Not like that.
39:04>> I have like the summer before my dad died. The last thing I really remember is when I was eight going to the World Trade Center for the Christmas party and from like then to 911 is like a blur and then 911 happens and then the days after are a blur.
39:18The weeks after are a blur and it's like I can't remember what Christmas or like any I I don't know. So then things fade.
39:24It's just reality.
39:25>> Do you remember what he was like though?
39:27Like do you remember his personality?
39:28>> Yeah. Yeah. Very charismatic person, very happy. Loved love to joke around. You just love life.
39:37I mean, and that's like the crazy thing is I hear all the people who died 911.
39:42It's like they were all described very similarly to me.
39:46>> They loved life. They appreciated life.
39:48They were just a joy to be around and and they were taken so soon.
39:54>> Yeah.
39:54>> Which is kind of weird. So, yeah, he just had this this this knack about him.
39:59I don't know. He he was very approachable and like most people loved him and if he didn't love him he said okay I don't care you know that was his personality >> very very Jersey time >> yeah exactly spot on >> yeah I feel like I know >> they flip you the bird [laughter] that was >> at least we do that here in New Jersey as opposed in LA they smile at you walk by and then they say go [ __ ] yourself [laughter] >> yeah then they tweet about it >> actually not ex anymore not in California >> right that's that's a I've heard a lot of people talk about that though in different contexts at all ages is when
40:30when they lose people and then you know five six years later you start to you're like wait was the voice like this or was it like that?
40:36>> It's a really it's it's that's a really >> odd thing to deal with and and it's hard also when you're in the middle of growing up as well. So then all the experiences that you know you have that you're supposed to have like your dad there to help you with that you did until you were nine then suddenly you don't have it. But what what about your brothers? Cuz they were younger. You know, your your seven-year-old brother, I imagine he remembers your dad a little bit.
41:00>> A little bit. We you know, it's it's interesting because my brother Nick and I approached 911 differently for a long time. He would feed into a lot of the conspiracy stuff and all the and all the >> the background stuff. Um which opened my eyes to a lot of things, too. He's very researchoriented and he's smart. He's very smart and so he opened my eyes to a lot of things that I was not aware of. I had a different approach to it and I think that um I don't know. I I don't talk to him about what he remembers.
41:36>> I probably should.
41:37>> To this day, you don't really talk to him.
41:39>> No, I talk to my brother a lot.
41:40>> Yeah. Yeah. But I'm saying you don't really talk to him about what he remembers.
41:43>> No, it's hard. I don't know. Guys can be different. I don't have sisters, right?
41:49It's like my my two youngest brothers don't remember anything.
41:54They will sometimes ask questions, but it's hard. I think that's hard for them, too, because they didn't have they don't have a memory.
42:00>> They don't remember. So, the three-month-old obviously doesn't at all, but the three-year-old doesn't remember your dad at all.
42:06>> Maybe a little bit, maybe small things share, they share very similar p I mean, we all share the same passions my dad had, but like my brother Michael really >> my dad was obsessed with cars and Michael was like that, too. and um like know has very knowledgeable facts about them and all that stuff can spot what that is when he sees a drive by whatever. Um but no, he doesn't it's just hard. I don't know. Like my story became very public and I think that was kind of hard for them. I'll speak I won't speak for them, but I'll I'll I'll assess that I think it was hard for them. Harder than maybe they led on to
42:40believe >> that your story became public.
42:42>> Yeah. My story be our family story became public.
42:44>> Okay.
42:45>> You know, got it. I don't think to my knowledge any of them have finished my book. I think it's very challenging for them to read >> truthfully. My mom read it, my stepdad read it, but I don't think any of my brothers have finished it.
42:59>> Wait, so did your story really go public like through this book you're saying?
43:03Okay.
43:03>> Yeah.
43:04>> And that you wrote that in 2020?
43:06>> No, I actually finished it in 2017.
43:08>> Didn't get published until 2020.
43:10>> A long journey.
43:12>> What made you want to do that? I guess like writing it sub 15 years later.
43:17>> Well, so I journaled since I was 10 years old. My mom's brother, who I'm very close with, my uncle, he's my godfather. He gave me a journal for Christmas the year after 911. And he described he wrote this little note and said, "I have stacks of these journals throughout the years. You know, try to write in it every night." And actually, I take that back. It was the first Christmas after 911. [snorts] and um he just basically encouraged me to write. So I did and I would write every night in that journal and then there was a period of my life where I stopped and then I continued and would stop and
43:56continue.
43:57>> So I dealt with drug addiction. We'll get probably into all that. But um I started speaking at schools when I was about nine months sober. And I'd go into schools and I would never really go fully into my deep wounds of my story.
44:12Kind of surface level describe what happened to my dad, what happened to me getting sober, etc. One day I went into a school and I got fully honest and then basically shared everything. I didn't plan what I wanted to say. I just let it all out. and the the senior, I'll never forget, came up to me after and he said, "I want to let you know I went through something very similar and uh you inspired me and you should consider writing a book."
44:35>> That summer I started writing the book.
44:36>> Oh, that's cool.
44:37>> And the book changed. I mean, believe me, like it it was a lot.
44:40>> Yeah, we got it right here. Sway. We'll have that link down below for people to check it out.
44:44>> It changed a lot. I um I cut a lot of stuff. I rewrote a lot of stuff. My first editor was like, "You're not getting deep. you're kind of just like reflecting too much. You need to like really tap back into that nine-year-old >> and you could say you don't, you know, you didn't have it all figured out because you didn't, >> right?
45:03>> And the 14-year-old voice and all that stuff. And so it took, it was challenging for me and I, it opened up a lot of things inside of me that I had suppressed for a long time.
45:11>> So my brothers basically there's a lot of stuff about my dad in there that, you know, now like people who never really knew now they know.
45:20>> Yeah.
45:21>> You know, and that was hard.
45:22>> What are what are some of those things?
45:23Yeah. Just like for an example, when they found my dad, like they found, I guess I just might as well just say like they found his lower half first.
45:32That's how he was identified. Like I said, his wallet, his keys were in his pocket, uh his phone, and like his wallet was um not burnt or anything like that. Was like kind of charred, but like it it was very water logged and there was photos of me and my brothers in the wallet, which are stained, watermarks.
45:52you know, they have water stains. There was money in there.
45:55>> Um, do >> you guys have that stuff?
45:56>> We have it all. Yeah, we have it all.
45:57His business cards, his credit cards, all the stuff is in there.
46:00>> And so, like, that type of stuff I think was was hard, you know. Um, especially my younger brothers who didn't maybe know. My mom sat me and my brother Nick down in my dad's office. We called it his little home office and told us that he wasn't coming home. Like that's she delivered that news when they found him.
46:19So, but they didn't tell her until a week later, right?
46:22>> That's what I'm saying. A week later is when she sat us down and said like, "He's not coming home."
46:25>> And you remember that very well.
46:27>> That is like the last piece around that and I have like like bits of his funeral and that's it.
46:35>> How'd you react like once she finally >> I broke down immediately crying. So, to give you an example, right? Like Nick me and Nick were different as kids and he said, "My dad's dead." Okay.
46:49and he got up off the chair and he walked out of the room. Me, I started hysterically crying.
46:55And I think Nick has worked through his, you know, his grief with it, too. Um, it took us years for us to to connect and share tears together over it.
47:07>> Years.
47:09>> Yeah, I would say. I mean, it just traumatic events affect people differently >> for sure. You know, and I have like friends who like I have one of my best friends to this day. His dad died at Kenner as well. And I told him that I went to the memorial. I met with that medical examiner lady. And he he asked me, he's like, "I'm just curious." He's like, "Why?"
47:30He's like, "Why?" He's like, "I I don't really I don't care to know. Like, I've dealt I've dealt with my own way ways around it and what I think may have happened." He didn't tell me what he thinks happened to his dad, but um he's like, "I just I don't know. like what do you gain from it and I'm like I don't know but I wanted to do it.
47:48>> Did you find friction with that between you two between the two of you and noticing how differently you grieved?
47:52Was that >> Yeah.
47:53>> Was that the friction?
47:54>> Yeah, probably. And um I think that's what he struggled with was that I was so open about it.
48:01>> I don't know if you have any similar experiences yourself, but like it just people react to it differently.
48:07>> I mean, especially with in general, that's probably one of the hardest dynamics I think in my opinion just from the familial as aspect of it. Yeah, >> just relationships in general, how different everyone handles everything and that could be rub people the wrong way for me or the other person based on how you're handling it.
48:23>> Now, we are talking different age ranges here with your families respectively, but if I remember correctly, David, you were the youngest, right?
48:30>> Yeah. Two older sisters are seven years older than me and five and a half.
48:33>> Okay. So, two older sisters and you were the oldest and you were about 13.
48:38>> 12. Yeah.
48:38>> 12 and you were nine. So again, like it's a different spectrum completely, but it's interesting like as you grow up, you were the young one at that point and you know, your sisters are navigating through this, but as you're growing up, you're the oldest one and you have two siblings who really >> can't remember [ __ ] >> Yeah.
48:57>> You know, they were way too young.
48:59That's like a >> these are two very different experiences of how to later deal with it. So like David, [snorts] would you say that as once you got past the period where it was just kind of blacked out to you, like your sisters were there to really talk with you over the years or was that also a slow process of actually having communication there?
49:21>> I think it was a slow process. Like again, a lot of the pieces I had to put together kind of what you said in regards to asking people questions. Like I asked my mom my sister's questions and one thing my sister said in our family episode, she's like, "Yeah, I don't really remember us talking about it for the first few weeks."
49:36>> But then there was a point my mom reminded me that she would have give us the opportunity to speak when we were eating dinner and I would just sit there not say anything and observe.
49:44>> And that was somehow I took it for a long time which is why I kind of do what I do now because I felt a guilt of not even a guilt a I didn't express much. I didn't I didn't get it out. But I had I was raised by three women.
49:56>> Yeah.
49:56>> And which I think is a big difference just being raised having men around me or boys around me because obviously we deal with it differently. But women are a little bit more expressive for the most part, more gentle around these things. Not to generalize any of it, but having the women's perspective was a big deal for me. But a lot of my journey again was forgetting, remembering, asking questions. And as I became a man, things started opening up and understanding it. And for one of the things I did, which I seem like you were doing, was I was watching the footage over and over again in the early teens,
50:25looking for every angle.
50:26>> And I wonder if it's partially because we hadn't we didn't have so many we had no answers. Even 25 [ __ ] years later, we still have answers.
50:33>> But besides that, we just I didn't I wanted to know what he experienced. What did he suffer? Was there pain? Was he a hero? Was he scared?
50:40>> And I'm answers I'm never going to get.
50:42So I just wonder if I wanted to see it to have some control over finding out was going, getting information.
50:48everything was already public. I wanted to be there. So, a lot of my process was diving into my own, but I had I did have a support system. It was just different for each of us.
50:56>> Did you This is like kind of a strange question, but when you were going to try to figure that out to see if you could find something that like put you there and figures out what he was feeling, what he was thinking, if you could even get an answer to that. Did you feel like going into that that that would change things for you or it was strictly just because you wanted to know?
51:12>> Honestly, I did it because I wanted to make myself cry.
51:15>> I think that was the initial thing. I knew I wanted to get some [ __ ] out of me and I knew that would make me cry and if it didn't that's a whole another problem but I just wanted to get it out and I wanted to sit in it and I feel like I I defined it later in life as kind of an exposure therapy that I didn't realize I was doing but I kind of did by putting myself there by forcing myself to watch it by letting it come out and not running from it or looking away from the screen and jumping to my mom to hug her.
51:41It was just sitting in it, letting the cry out, being scared, trying to put myself there cuz I wanted to be there oddly. And by doing this, I just forced myself to feel it and let come see what came out.
51:53>> And then afterwards, I kind of just take a breath. And then I realize I'm I'm still here.
51:57>> As corny as that sounds, that was kind of what it was. I just wanted to cry and I wanted to put myself through it. And even 25 years later, I don't seek the footage as much, but when it pops up, which is very often, it's just like I watch it and then I get that feeling back a little bit. But at the same time, I I kind of want that feeling, >> you know. I and I'll say this, just being someone from this part of the world, you know, where you did know people who who were in the towers at least like there were a couple guys from my town who died there and like New York's right here and it's somewhere
52:28that you know I call home now and everything like we experience thinking about that day in a different way than I mean you you guys in a way different way but I mean like people who didn't personally have family members in there experience thinking about that day in a way different way no disrespect than someone who lives in Utah >> 100% >> or something like that, you know? And so >> that is the one thing cuz I've had my own journey with going back to that day and trying to piece things together and I still don't know what the [ __ ] happened there. I think we would all like to know, but you know, I would find
53:02that when when I would have the conversation over the years with people who were from this part of the world, there was I don't I don't want this to come across the wrong way, but there was a little bit more of a reverence for the day itself rather than when you're having those conversations about what really happened with someone who's not from this part of the world. I'm not blaming those people, but like they don't have that emotional attachment to it that even I do to say nothing of what you guys >> have to it as well. Like is that frustrating sometimes? You know, like how people will talk about it?
53:31[sighs] >> Yeah. I mean, I live in South Florida. I I don't even I I'm going to ask David, too, like what people in LA think, but like Yeah, it's 2-hour flight south. And I think the people down there I I this is my first time being up north in four years >> really >> for the memorial for like this time of year >> normally. Yeah. I mean, yeah. The last time I was up here was I think 2020, like I'm here a lot, but for 911 memorial was 2022.
54:01>> So, which was actually probably good for me in a way, but um people down there don't get it, you know, and also too like kids now were not even born, so they don't understand. So, like when I'm going to schools, I'm like, yeah, like her. And uh no, when I'm going to schools and these kids are just it's just so foreign to them and they only know they hear of things like meme cultures. I've had people reach out to me about like lost footage and my knowledge of lost footage and I'm like this didn't exist.
54:29>> Wait, lost footage?
54:30>> There's a lot of like people who who suspect there's like a lot of lost footage >> like of people who were videoing that day.
54:36>> Yeah, there's like people there there's these these folklore videos that people think are real that occurred that didn't really occur. There's one that's very It's all over uh these Reddit these 911 Reddit pages.
54:50>> Have him pull it.
54:51>> Yeah.
54:52>> One of them is called, >> what was it called?
54:55>> Is that the guy who's watching? It's like I was supposed to be there.
54:58>> No. Uh LOL Superman. They call it LSM.
55:01And it's supposedly a video of someone falling from the building and landing in the plaza. Never existed. But people have reached out to me because they've heard my story about looking at the footage. And I'm like, I was pulling videos from Limewire >> before YouTube was like fully YouTube came up.
55:19>> Lime wire.
55:20>> That's why I I was pulling videos from Lime Wire.
55:22>> I didn't know you were doing videos on Lime Wire. I remember music.
55:25>> Music. There's videos, too.
55:27>> And YouTube was what, 2006?
55:30>> Yeah. Sounds Yes. 06 fresh my freshman year of high school. And I remember pulling videos and like I never saw anything like that. So anyway, I've had people who reach out to me about that type of stuff and I'm like, if this is what they're pulling from what they're hearing on this podcast or that story or reading this article, whatever.
55:46>> I I feel like they've lost the plot in many ways. Um, but the there's just a >> I don't know. They're just not sensitive to what happened, >> right?
55:57It's history. I mean, it it's history, but it's also, you know, you you you go to the memorial, it's it's it's people. It's obviously like I don't need to preach you guys, but like it it's it's many people who in an instant were gone. And so, there has to be a way >> to talk about both things. And if you got to put them even in separate lenses, fine. But like that's just always that's always been a tough line for me because like I said like I can't imagine it for you guys but like for me it's like my life I can like chart it back >> Yeah.
56:34>> to that day. Well, what's interesting too about the pool is that the people's names, I'm not sure if you know this, the people's names are strategically placed around whether caner for jail people as an example are next to people that they worked with or that were friends with >> and they piece everyone together and same thing goes for the fire departments and all all of it and they're pieced they're placed on that portion of the pool by the people they [snorts] were closest with. So, not everyone knows that >> that's they did. There's so many little >> a lot of layers that people don't know.
57:07>> Stuff they did do. I'm not sure how you guys feel overall. It seems like >> you like it, but from my perspective, like as far as how they did the whole area right there, it's pretty amazing.
57:17Like >> it's beautiful. And then uh there's the family room.
57:20>> Mhm.
57:20>> Which I didn't know about until 2021.
57:24That's private, right?
57:25>> Private family room. You can go in there, you can write a letter, you can leave a photo or whatever, >> which I've gone in there a few times.
57:31And then obviously the room where the it's behind the the big blue wall um no no day shall erase you from the memory of time. That's where the um the repository is.
57:43>> And so what I learned was when I went in the room and I looked at the file, there's two rows. One row is of remains who that have yet to be identified and the other row is remains that have been identified, but the families don't want calls anymore.
57:57So >> the families don't >> do not want calls because there's more and more research and there's more and more ways that they've identified people. Like last I think it was last year there was like five new people that were identified.
58:08>> How did they do it?
58:09>> Just new DNA testing.
58:12>> So like if I'm understanding from something almost microscopic in a way or >> Yeah. I I don't know.
58:20>> Yeah. I mean they have the whole row like you said of unidentified remains.
58:23So they just one by one I guess putting in whatever they got. Can we Google that deep? Recent remains identified.
58:29>> It's like a year I want to say it was a year ago from 911 and how they did it.
58:34>> And I think that >> that's wild.
58:36>> I don't know. I mean I literally when I went to the same woman I gave her my information.
58:41>> Yeah. ABC News 911 victim identified using first of its kind genetic genealogy technique. An adult female was formally identified using the technique.
58:50Let's go down.
58:51>> Oh, so this was even more recent than I was.
58:53>> Yes. This is August 23rd, 2026. This is like 2 weeks ago. 25 years after the September 11th, 2001 attacks, New York City is still working to formally identify all of the nearly 3,000 people killed at the WTC. Now, for the first time, the city's office of the chief medical examiner and the NYPD detective bureau have identified a 9/11 victim using genetic genealogy, which combines DNA testing with family tree research.
59:17The family of the newly identified victim, who was an adult female, declined to publicly come forward. She is the 1,654th to be formally identified, which means we have over >> 1100.
59:27>> We have over like 1300, isn't it? 2977.
59:31>> Yeah. Yeah.
59:32>> So like 1300 people still not identified. So let's go down. Def. It's a breakthrough. Dr. Jason Graham, New York City's chief medical examiner, told ABC News, "I'm delighted to be able to say that we've now applied new methods to the WTC identification efforts." And we have a new identification for the first time in 25 years using new methods, forensic investigative genetic genealogy. Such a breakthrough was unimaginable 25 years ago because the methodology did not exist. The technology really wasn't there. There's a lot of good future with genealogy.
59:59Forensics investigative genetic genealogy has helped police solve long-term unidentified cold cases. More recently, the medical examiner's office and the police department have applied it to the World Trade Center victim ID.
60:10>> Dr. Jen Jen Odian is the woman that we met with.
60:14>> Oh, that's who you met with.
60:15>> Yeah, she's super super sweet.
60:17>> Yeah, super sweet.
60:18>> So, she's is she she's with the she's a forensic anthropologist in the New York medical examiner's office. So, she does other things obviously with the city, not just dealing with >> No, she uh I don't know actually, but she like literally is the one who's there. She has an office and she goes downtown to the memorial >> and she this is what she does.
60:36>> She's been interviewed several times over the years by ABC.
60:38>> Yeah, she's a great >> Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge, huge help.
60:47And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.
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