0:01Now, the first few weeks when you're doing that and focusing on the show with the Google Trends though, there's a lot of information coming out from the government fast and furiously about, you know, what they are saying happened here. This is what it is. This is Oh, there were texts with Tyler Robinson.
0:15His alleged lover, by the way, his lover was trans. There's that angle here. He wrote this stuff on the bullets. What was standing out to you again, outside the trends right away that you're like, what the [ __ ] That doesn't make sense. Like, from the jump.
0:31>> Um >> [sighs] >> it's hard to it's hard to to dissociate the Google Trends analysis I was doing because the the Lance Twiggs thing was always suspect because Lance Twiggs was a far more persistent result on Google Trends for a much longer period of time than Tyler James Robinson was.
0:51>> Really?
0:51>> Yeah, overseas and in District of Columbia.
0:53Um he would pop up from time [clears throat] to time going back to when he was a a teenager.
0:5916, 17 years old. Um you would you would see him with his full name, Lance Tyler Twiggs and Lance Twiggs.
1:05>> How old was he now in 2025?
1:07>> I don't know. 22, maybe three. So >> So, several years.
1:12>> Yeah, like 2021, 22, it starts popping up.
1:14>> Interesting.
1:15>> Um and my thought in this is you know, how do you become a patsy? I think I think there are hundreds of thousands of available patsies at any given moment. Um probably because people are looking up stuff online they shouldn't be looking up. They're saying things in Discord chats they shouldn't be saying.
1:30Uh they're trying to meet up with people they shouldn't be meeting up with. Uh primarily young people.
1:34>> Mhm.
1:35>> And so you end up with this pool of available people >> [clears throat] >> that any one of them would rather go to prison for accessory to a murder than what they're what they're trying to do online.
1:47And um so it's hard to to to segregate those two things in my mind. It's hard to take the the story of Tyler Robinson that we're being fed without the Lance Twigs component being this persistent, showing up, looking to me like a federal operator, or at least an asset of some sort from the very beginning, from his from his late teenage years.
2:10And, you know, then the stories come out that his parents were having a lot of problems with him, and you know, his grandparents were having problems with him, and you know, >> Twigs.
2:17>> Twigs, yeah.
2:18And so, it looks like you have a problem child who's chronically online, who's uh obviously sexually disturbed.
2:26God knows what his internet search history looked like, God knows what kind of Discord groups and Reddit pages he was looking at, and all kinds of other stuff.
2:34A guy like that is ripe, you know, to we we can offer you a way out of this.
2:39And And so, I sort of always took it from that perspective. That's sort of what made me starting to That's what made me start to be skeptical of the whole story from the beginning, is is the Lance Twigs component, not the Tyler Robinson component.
2:52>> That's interesting. So, you were pulling onto that more. Was there a thought there early on where you're like, damn, I wonder if Tyler Robinson even did this all together?
3:04>> Yes.
3:05Um I was willing to accept he did it initially. I kind of took it at face value.
3:10>> Why Why'd you take it at face value?
3:12>> [cough] >> Yeah, thank you.
3:16Um I have a mute I I don't know if you've ever watched me. I cough a lot.
3:19It's >> It's all right. Yeah, yeah, I've >> I've seen you do it.
3:21>> It's just part of me, so I have a I have a mute button that I've installed, and I use it uh a lot.
3:26Um but um I was willing to accept Tyler did it, but I was willing to accept he was set up to do it.
3:35>> Set up to do >> Like Like he was not brainwashed, but but pushed, radicalized, uh nudged.
3:43You know, we got to do something. He's coming on campus. You know, this is our chance. You You're the guy. You You You know, you've got the gun. You You know how to shoot. That kind of thing. I I kind of always asso- I I I associated Lance Twigs with a setup from the beginning.
3:58And I associated Lance Twigs with a kind of an asset aspect from the beginning. And so it was easy for me to see kind of that two steps uh to Tyler Robinson. It wasn't until I sort of got fascinated with watching people try to recreate the shot, a .30-06 shot, and they were shooting absolutely everything.
4:16And, you know, Green Beret podcasters and sniper podcasters saying this is not a .30-06, it had to hit body armor, it had to have hit something else, it had to be a lower caliber round.
4:26It had to come from a different direction. There's no way a .30-06 from that direction did this damage. It's impossible.
4:32And that's sort of what led me to well, maybe there was something else. Maybe there was another person. Maybe it was some you know, Chris Martenson had that theory that he was shot with a lower caliber round from a different angle.
4:41>> Mhm.
4:42>> And so I sort of ran down that rabbit hole for a while.
4:44>> Did Chris have a like have someone in the crowd that he could point to on that or was he was he just basing it off what he could see ballistically?
4:52>> Uh no, he didn't I don't think he ever pointed anyone in the crowd. I think he was thinking Sorensen's in a roof.
4:58>> Um >> Okay.
4:59>> because that's the right angle to uh to do the damage that was claimed.
5:04>> So that's a different roof than the one that Tyler was allegedly on?
5:07>> Yeah, so the the the the Loews Cineplex is pretty straight ahead. You know, maybe offset a degree or two. Uh I think it was 9° offset. Um the Loews Cineplex roof is is kind of to Charlie's I don't know, 10:00. Or no, not 10:00. What is that? Whatever that is over there. Yeah, 10:00. And that would be more of an angle because remember Andrew Colvett came out with that tweet allegedly >> Oh, yeah.
5:30>> quoting the doctor saying that his >> Can we pull that tweet up, Dave? I love that one. Oh my god.
5:35>> through C6 were impacted and >> Yeah. And so Martenson I think is trying to to reconcile damage to the vertebrae with with angle of a a gun the angle a gun would have had to come from in order to do that damage.
5:51Um and so he was sort of leaning towards the LoC center. I was still thinking gunshot at the time. I mean it it you know, this was late September, early October. But I was I was sort of on the gunshot train but not a .30-06 from the LoC center again because all the ballistic experts, they were shooting thousands of things. I mean they were shooting steel plates and cast iron skillets and stop signs and uh they were shooting ham bones and uh ham hocks and necks and pigs and cows and I mean they were shooting everything and it was just blowing right through everything.
6:22And they were shooting it from 142 yards and and it would just blow through everything and it would blow through the concrete block after it blew through everything.
6:29And so it never made sense to me that a bullet could arrive from the LoC center at that angle, a .30-06 round, with that much energy and and stop in his neck within like what, 3 inches?
6:42>> Right. And I but you've just pulled up the tweet. This was from I believe September 20th, 2025, 10 days after the one you referenced with Andrew Colvert.
6:49And I when I did the podcast with Joseph Scott Morgan, like we read this one out too because even if somehow this were true and to be clear, I don't believe this, it's like the fact that he wrote this whole thing out, presumably read it back to himself cuz the grammar looks good.
7:05So seems like he edited it. And I don't know if he did the old rule my mom used to say which is count to five before you press send. But like the fact that he pressed send on this in a nation that was once told that a magic bullet went through [ __ ] 40 different regions to somehow kill the president of the United States and thought this was not going to be taken the wrong way blows my mind from like a just intellectual discourse level. But just to read it for people that have context that so you understand what we were referring to. This was Andrew Colvert on September 20th, 2025.
7:32He says, "I want to address some of the discussion about the lack of an exit wound with Charlie. I'm usually not interested in delving into the most of this kind of most of this kind of online chatter and I apologize this is somewhat graphic, but in this case, the fact that there wasn't an exit wound is probably another miracle. And I want people to know. I just spoke with the surgeon who worked on Charlie in the hospital. It's interesting from a HIPAA standpoint, but that's neither here nor there. He said the bullet, quote, absolutely should have gone through, which is very, very normal for a high-powered, high-velocity
8:00round. I've seen wounds from this caliber many times, and they always just go through everything. This would have taken a moose or two down, an elk, etc., unquote. But it didn't go through.
8:10Charlie's body stopped it. I mentioned to his doctor that there were dozens of staff, students, and special guests standing directly behind Charlie on the other on the other side of the tent, and he replied, quote, it was an absolute miracle that someone else didn't get hit, unquote. Quote, his bone was so healthy and the density was so impressive that he's like the man of steel. It should have just gone through and through. It likely would have killed those standing behind him, too, unquote.
8:35In the end, the coroner did find the bullet just beneath the skin. Even in death, Charlie managed to save the lives of those around him. Remarkable.
8:43Miraculous.
8:44>> Well, and I agree with him. It would have taken a miracle.
8:47Like there's there's he he even admits, again, taking this at face value, which I don't take anything he says at face value.
8:53Uh but if you take that at face value, the surgeon comes right out and says, "Hey, this doesn't happen.
9:00This a .30-06 doesn't stop in that little bit of soft ne- a soft tissue in the neck. It just doesn't happen. That's not a thing that happens. It's a miracle that it did.
9:08Um And so, even that, you look at that, and you say, "Okay, well, not a .30-06 to the neck." It it couldn't have been.
9:15It would have gone through.
9:16>> Would it matter? So, what was the gun used here again, a Mauser? Is that right?
9:21>> Yeah.
9:21>> So, when you're seeing all these different demonstrations from berets and and snipers and stuff like that who are doing this like like qualified guys who are doing it online, were you seeing it with people using all different kinds of guns, including the gun or similar one that that used here?
9:35>> Yeah, they were using everything down to you know, 223 up to 30-ought-6.
9:42And you know, nobody [clears throat] knew at the time was it a frangible round? Was it you know, 150 170 grain? Was it 180 grain? Nobody knew what it was.
9:52Um but they were committed to the 30-ought-6 narrative. And it doesn't matter what you put in a 30-ought-6, it's going through. I mean people Uh Jesse on Fire and Heavy Duty Country did a a demo with frangible rounds.
10:04These are frangible rounds from like the 1940s.
10:07>> Can you explain that to people who don't understand guns and bullets out there?
10:09>> Yeah, so so a regular full metal jacket round is designed not to break up. It's supposed to go through.
10:18Um a frangible round is designed to break up. It's supposed to hit something hard and stop. It it stops redirection.
10:24It stops um people, you know, innocent bystanders from getting hit.
10:28And so it's um it [clears throat] it will turn kind of to dust if it hits the right uh right density of an object.
10:37But >> Can it like mushroom too and like >> Um so that you're thinking of kind of a a soft point that will that will sort of mushroom when it hits.
10:46Um but No, I mean a frangible round typically is not going to mushroom.
10:51>> Okay.
10:52>> Um full metal jacket can have a little mushroom mushrooming but it's not designed really to do that.
10:59Um but yeah, I mean it did it didn't matter what they threw at it. Anything they fired went through much thicker things than a neck, much denser bone than vertebrae.
11:12And so you know, instantly I began to doubt that narrative and I'm thinking, "Okay, if it wasn't a 30-ought-6 and it wasn't from the LoC center, where would it where did it come from? It had to had to be a gunshot, right? Where where did this gunshot come from?" And so I sort of ran down that rabbit hole for a while before you realize that rabbit hole doesn't hold much weight either.
11:30Um because even a lot of the lower caliber rounds are going to to pass right through. I mean, it's just a neck is not that much tissue. It's soft, you know, um >> As you're thinking about this at this point, where's your head going with what this was? Did you have any idea of like in your opinion what this could be or who might be behind it or things like that or was it too early?
11:50>> No, it wasn't too early at all because again, the Lance Twigs component made me think there might be some sort of government aspect to it.
11:57I I couldn't at the time think of why the government would want to kill Charlie Kirk. That didn't make sense to me. He'd been a huge friend of the president, you know, rightly or wrongly credited with getting the president re-elected. He was friends with the president's son. He was, uh, you know, business partners with the president's son.
12:18And so, in my mind I'm thinking, okay, if this is a government operation, it has to be rogue. It has to be something that that is operating below the office of the president, but at a high enough level that you could actually pull this off. You're not going to get like a bunch of E5s out there like, "Let's kill Charlie Kirk." You know, and and run and and do something. So, you know, that's sort of where my mind was. Was this was probably a domestic military operation, but below the office of the president.
12:43>> Did you have a motive in in mind or like a reason [snorts] they would want Charlie Kirk gone?
12:49>> The Iran war.
12:50>> That was why?
12:51>> Yeah. I mean, that's the only thing I could think of. He was He was pretty adamant and and a lot of the clips we're starting to get replayed. The the clip from the PBD podcast back in 2023.
13:00>> I remember that when it came out.
13:01>> Yeah, that was pretty devastating.
13:03>> That was like I would cite that to people at the time when I'm like, "Charlie Kirk was saying this." [laughter] I'm like, "This is the most [ __ ] you know, pro-Israel kind of dude ever saying this like 5 days after October 7th where he was talking about the I've been to that Gaza border, you know, I don't know how >> only that though. He seemed to have insider knowledge of the plan.
13:26Uh, looking back because he said, you know, I I don't even want to use the word. He said, "But okay, I'll use it."
13:32They're going to ethnically cleanse it, you know. And at the time I thought, "How can you ethnically cleanse Gaza?
13:37That's crazy. You'd have to either kill everyone or relocate every How I mean, that doesn't even make sense." But looking back, you go, "Oh, maybe he did know something.
13:46And maybe that knowledge, as he continued to turn and and push harder on that subject, maybe that knowledge is what got him killed.
13:52>> At the time at the time where and this is a way different world then, but I remember [clears throat] watching that at the time and when he did the like >> [sighs and gasps] >> and like looked up to the sky like this, I was like, you [snorts] know, I'm not I wasn't even going where you just were with like, "Oh, maybe he knew like something about it." But I was going, "What is the weight behind that?" The weight of him just giving an opinion on this saying, "Hey, I'm just throwing this out there.
14:17Don't shoot the messenger, but may maybe it could be this." Like you could tell he was like, "I'm not really going to [ __ ] say this. Do I Did I take enough Adderall today?" And like >> [laughter] >> you know? And then he did.
14:27>> Well, he he looked up. He was he was recalling a conversation, in my opinion.
14:31He was recalling a conversation. He he was looking up like, "What what words did he use? Okay, he used ethnically cleanse it."
14:38That's that's that's how I took it.
14:39Um, you know, and then and then they tried in vain for 2 years to get him back on the team.
14:47And weren't successful.
14:49>> Here's the thing though.
14:51He from what I could see, and I'm just seeing social clips at the time. I can't say I'm like the closest person watching Charlie Kirk while he's doing this, but like I would see clips pop up of him doing things not even on college campuses, but like at conferences and stuff like that. I'm talking in '24, '25 where like the Israel topic would come up and he would vociferously defend it.
15:12And we now can see from like some texts and stuff behind the scenes and conversations that were happening in what I've seen especially until those recent texts that Candace put out, which I think is something we got to come back to, but like July 2025, August 2025, the Hamptons meeting, you know, when he did the thing with Dave Smith, and Dave Smith talks about what they talked about offstage before that debate at the end of of July 2025. That's where you could start to see him at least like saying some things out loud on his show when you look at clips, but before then after the PBD thing what he thought
15:48privately is one thing, but everything he still did publicly to me was very much still like defending the shield here.
15:56>> Yeah, until until August. Uh that's when he started uh dropping the mask a little bit.
16:01Um the Megan Kelly interview, I think it was August 6th.
16:04>> Yep.
16:05>> Um 2 days after the Hamptons thing.
16:07>> Yeah. He he That was the first time I recall him publicly dropping the mask after that PBD interview.
16:13And you know, uh so i- in my mind, in you know, going back, you were asking me where I was in September, October.
16:22It wasn't an international operation, but I thought it probably had international okay because of the searches that originated from overseas.
16:32>> And you were thinking, it's interesting though that that early you were already thinking the Iran war, cuz again, the narrative, huge air quotes there, but the narrative at the time was, "Oh, we did that 12-day thing. We came in and bombed four of the nuclear Now, you and I know it's [ __ ] but the nuclear the nuclear stuff's gone, so we've stepped out and we're not going to war."
16:49And so, in my head, I was like, "Yeah, I'll believe that when I see it." But at the same time, I will admit, I still wasn't thinking like from that point, June 2025, I wasn't thinking sometime in the next 12 months we're going to seriously be looking at boots on the ground like as a real plan in Iran, and then that became like a within 9 to 8 9 months, conveniently after Charles Charlie's dead, they were already talking about it. Like, "Okay, we're starting a war now, and maybe we're going to put boots on the ground."
17:16>> Yeah, I mean, but it you knew, I knew, everybody in the lead-up to the 12-day war, we all kind of had the same thought, or a lot of us on on our side of that issue had the same thought, which was this this is going to spiral out of control into World War III. You know, the Iranians are proud people, they're not just going to let people come in and bomb them and and go, "Oh, okay, well, we're sorry, guys. Sorry about that."
17:38Um it it it had the it had the potential and the capacity to get very ugly very quickly.
17:44Um and and Charlie coming out talking about it in the way he did, it it it just that's a problem you If you're going to go forward, that's a problem you have to deal with.
17:57You you can't just leave that that loose end hanging out there.
18:00>> Why not deal with it earlier though if they knew that that was already a thing he was thinking behind the scenes?
18:07The reason I ask that is because by the time if it is alleged like they did deal with it in September 2025, respectfully, the horse has left the barn. You look at people below 55 in this country, left, right, it's very unifying issue.
18:21Like, what the [ __ ] was he even going to do about it at that point?
18:24He was getting killed by his own people on the left.
18:26>> don't know that they didn't try.
18:29So, you know, the fact that something happened on September 10th doesn't mean that there wasn't a very similar operation in place in April.
18:39>> Mhm.
18:39>> Uh in December the month the year before that. Like, you you can't you can't say definitively this was the only time that they tried. And had they gone on September 10th and something went wrong and they called off the operation, you and I would not be sitting here talking about it.
18:55Um maybe they would have done it September 29th or October 5th. You know, we we don't know that this was the only time that he walked into a death circle and and and there was a plan to take him out. Uh it it could have been but like what if it had rained that day?
19:12>> Right.
19:13>> You know, if if if the plan is to take him out, you're not going to let a rain shower ruin it. You're going to just Okay, here's our backup plan. Here's the next place we're doing it. You know, it's not lost on me that that all of his first events were like in Colorado and Utah. They're all right there together.
19:28>> Mhm.
19:28>> So.
19:30>> How prior to September 10th, when he was going back out on this tour publicly at colleges, you know, in the year before that, how good and deep, you know, by manpower, was his security team everywhere he went?
19:46How much do we know about that?
19:47>> I want to say Brian Harpole said they typically carried six with him.
19:53Um and that was [clears throat] on the Shawn Ryan show, and I I don't don't quote me on that, cuz maybe he's at five or seven, but I I want to say it was six.
20:01Cuz I remember I remember the impression it left with me after that show was that they had doubled his security for that day, and I think he said they had 12 or 13 people on the ground that day.
20:11Um and so that would be I think fairly average for him.
20:16>> Now, obviously, you know, he's not a president, so it's not a Secret Service team. It doesn't have Even if it's a deep security team, it doesn't have that kind of resources, but you know, from what you've been able to gather in the past, was there a protocol with any of his security teams when he would go do public events outdoors that were near roofs, where they would scan some roofs and and see if there were any security limitations on those?
20:40>> I have no idea.
20:42>> Okay.
20:43That'd be interesting to know if they'd ever done that.
20:45>> I think it it crossed their mind because multiple of them in the aftermath have commented on the fact that when he walked in, they looked up and saw all the roofs, and it made them uncomfortable.
20:56>> Mhm.
20:56>> Um I can't imagine that was the first time it had dawned on anybody that roofs, uh particularly in light of what happened in Butler the July before. I can't can that's the first time it had ever dawned on anybody roofs are a major vulnerability.
21:08>> Sure.
21:09Yeah. I would think especially after Butler you would think you'd be thinking that [ __ ] anywhere. [clears throat] This is over a year after that.
21:14>> The The other thing that was weird right from the jump to me. I talked with you about this on the phone, but I'll never forget when So, he died on a Wednesday and then Friday morning like we said that was when they said Tyler Robinson had been arrested. And then I had a wedding to go to on Saturday. That was like 6 hours away. So, I was going to get get up early and drive there. So, Friday night I'm sitting in here. I'm working and I see something on Twitter that his wife Erica is going to come out and give a statement. So, I'm like, "Okay." So, I pull up the live stream on YouTube. And I just remember seeing her
21:47walk in and the only thing I felt was guilt.
21:52Because right away that thing in my gut that goes, "What the fuck?"
21:58Something ain't right here. This ain't real. What I've never had that thought in a situation like this before. It was blinking on a 12.
22:06>> Yeah.
22:06>> And I'm watching this and I'm like And every you know, everyone's I'm going to Twitter and everyone's like praising her. It was like a mass like campaign of people being like, "Oh my god, bravest woman ever." You know, yada yada yada.
22:17And I remember shutting the computer afterwards and like just being quiet and I'm like, "That's an impure thought. So mean.
22:24>> [laughter] >> This is a grieving widow.
22:26Don't think that." But then I'm driving to the wedding the next day and I'm thinking about it in the car. I could not get it out of my head. And so Sunday morning driving back from the wedding back up here.
22:36I call up my buddy Danny Jones.
22:39And it was like the two of us were like coming out of the closet.
22:43Cuz I'm like, "Hey man, you know, we talk like every day. Okay, what's going on?" Like "You watch that thing the other night?"
22:50"What thing?"
22:50>> [snorts] >> "The The The thing with the wife." I'm like, "Yeah."
22:55"What What do you think?" He's like, "Bro, it was so weird." I'm like, "OH MY GOD, IT WAS SO WEIRD TO ME, TOO. I WAS SO OH MY GOD, I FELT LIKE I COULDN'T TELL ANYONE about this. He's like, "Dude, something's off." And he's like, "Even my wife said it."
23:08>> Yeah.
23:09>> And, you know, women pick up on that [ __ ] real good. They they know that [ __ ] And we were just talking about it, and I'm like, "What is that?"
23:16And, you know, still the narrative was you'd go on social media, and most people were like, "Oh, she's so brave."
23:21And then you get the WWE wedding with the Vicks and the [ __ ] it you know, no ugly crying.
23:28>> Yeah.
23:28>> I know people grieve weird, but like at what point was it the WWE wedding or funeral, I'm sorry.
23:36Was it before that? Was it after that?
23:37At what point did you start saying to yourself, "Wait a minute.
23:40So something ain't right there."
23:42>> Yeah, so it wasn't that for me. I mean, I I watched it. I watched the speech, and looking back at it, it sends all kinds of crazy alarm bells off. But at the time, you know, whatever. And actually the guy I was talking to when we were first learning about it in real time, and the pictures were coming out, the videos were coming out.
23:58Um he called me back.
24:01I want to say Monday or Tuesday. So what is that? Like the 15th maybe? Something like that.
24:07Uh it was a day or two before she was announced that she was going to be the the the person.
24:12And he said, "Hey, I've got some information out of TPUSA. I know who they're going to put in in Charlie's place." Cuz we had talked about the day he died, we had talked about who would take over TPUSA as just even if it's just a placeholder.
24:23And he had mentioned Tyler Boyer. He had mentioned Bennie Johnson. He had mentioned um Justin Stripe, the COO. I mean, you know, he had just been appointed to this new executive role.
24:34Why not just put him in there for a little while?
24:36Um and then he had mentioned Erica Kirk, and I was like, "Who the hell is that?"
24:41Like, who is Erica Kirk?
24:43You know, I didn't know who Charlie's wife was.
24:45And um and then I saw her give that speech, and then he called me back a couple days later. He's like, "They're going to give it to Erica."
24:51And I was like, "Why?"
24:53And he was like, I I said, "You You what? I I actually probably still have that text." Um so I think the initial part of the conversation was by text. He said um I I was like, "Well, you know what? I think it's the right thing to do in the short run because I viewed Tyler Boyer as as an opportunist and and kind of shady. Uh Minnie Johnson I thought was like a total disaster.
25:14And you know, TPSA at the time, even if you didn't like Charlie, it had value.
25:18Um it it had the ability to turn voters out for um for conservative causes, Republican candidates at the college level. It just did. Um and you know, some of the states where you know, are decided by 500 votes or 1,000 votes or 10,000 votes, turning out a couple college campuses might make the difference.
25:37>> Mhm.
25:37>> Um I don't I don't I don't think he's the reason Trump won either election.
25:41And people say that a lot and he's credited with that, but I don't I'm not sure that's true. But But some of the states get pretty tight and turning out uh a bunch of college kids could be helpful.
25:51Um And so I thought, "Okay, yeah, Erica's probably not bad. She didn't do a terrible job in the speech or whatever."
25:58Um But before the memorial, uh I had a friend who was going to go to the memorial and and backed out and decided not to. He's like, "This is too weird.
26:07Something way too weird is going on with this."
26:09>> Mhm.
26:09>> Um this is I don't feel comfortable with it.
26:12Already booked a plane, already booked a hotel room and just said, "No, I'm not going."
26:16Um and so there there was already this weirdness that was going around in advance of of the big shebang. Uh the WWE What do you call it? WWE wedding?
26:26>> WWE funeral, sorry.
26:27>> Funeral, whatever.
26:28>> Felt like a wedding.
26:29>> Uh it did. I mean, she wore white.
26:31>> like it, too.
26:32>> She wore white. Um But yeah, I mean, I I think I I look back and say, "Hey, let's let's assume this was a an operation to kill Charlie." And And everyone was in on it.
26:42Like everyone Charlie knew was in on it.
26:46They've done absolutely everything wrong to get away with it. Absolutely everything.
26:50Uh starting with bringing Erica out. Like, she's been a disaster.
26:55Um, you know, as you as you dig into her past, as you uncover her prior statements, as you look into inconsistencies and and stories she tells, uh, on down to how they met. I mean, frankly, Charlie was in on that inconsistency as well. So, um, >> What was it they were in customs line in Israel or something?
27:13>> Well, that's that's when she says she first saw him.
27:16Um, but, you know, they there's this story that that their first date was, uh, at Bob's Burgers in New York City.
27:24And that, you know, Charlie slid into her DMs and very slyly invited her to a job interview and then turned it into a date and then and said, "I want to date you. I don't want to hire you." So, this is like a cute fairy tale story.
27:34Um, I think it's probably mildly illegal by HR standards, but >> what I was going to say. Sounds like a crossed line, but >> But, we'll let him have it. We'll let him have it.
27:43>> hire her, I guess, so.
27:45>> Yeah, he didn't. So, maybe he maybe he got away with it.
27:47Um, but then Tyler Boyer is seen on a podcast saying, "No, no, no, no, no, they went on a date before when she was here in August, the month before that or 2 months before that." And and, you know, I was hyping Charlie up for the date. They went to a gym together. And so, I mean, like, everything about everything she says falls apart with under the slightest bit of scrutiny. And she's just strange.
28:09>> Erica is strange.
28:10>> I mean, even if she's an innocent grieving grieving widow, she's the strangest innocent grieving widow of all time. So, if you're trying not to draw scrutiny to the situation, running her out there is the worst thing you can do.
28:21>> Yeah.
28:22>> Had they just put her away for like even a year, you know, "Hey, we've decided we're going to let Erica Kirk run this thing.
28:28She's going to be the CEO, but we're giving her the year on a sabbatical to spend with her family. She'll be in charge. She'll be overseeing everything, but she is expected to keep no office hours. She's going to do no events.
28:38She's going to go and grieve."
28:41Um, and Justin Stripe is going to run the place in the meantime or Tyler Boyer is going to run the place in the meantime.
28:47I don't think there would be a lot of scrutiny on this case. I think a lot of the scrutiny comes from the feeling you had that September 12th, the feeling your friend had that September 12th, the feeling your friend's wife had that September 12th, the feeling a lot of us had by the end of the the WWE funeral.
29:04It was just too weird and then by the time she showed up at events tossing out merch coming out to fireworks and I mean it's it's everything went wrong and then it's like they realized oh well well this version of Erica Kirk's not working so let's let's let's over correct. And let's go to she's only going to wear black now. Whenever she's seen in public she's going to wear black. Except the time she's in her little Bo Peep outfit. Then we're going to then she's going to be little Bo Peep if she's in Arkansas.
29:30>> [clears throat] >> Like who is she? No one dresses that You see how I'm dressed?
29:35I wear hoodies. That's what I wear.
29:37I wear hoodies and t-shirts. If you catch me in a little Bo Peep outfit something's going terribly wrong. I'm not I'm not being myself.
29:43>> [laughter] >> So I I think there's a I think I think what you perceived maybe other people took longer to perceive but I think it's it's sort of ubiquitous by now.
29:55>> Yeah and and like you said it's it's the optics of it too.
29:59That you just it from a PR perspective which shouldn't be what this is about by the way. It should be about an investigation trying to get to the truth here but just at the top layer of PR the fact that people around TPUSA presumably couldn't see that this was she just made it worse every time she went out to the point that she was still given you know live speeches on his show that somehow still named after him even though he's dead. You know in like April and May. I'm like guys It's been seven months the polling's in.
30:33You know this is a Jeb Bush.
30:35>> It's not working. It's this is Jeb Bush.
30:37>> [laughter] >> Please clap.
30:38>> Right.
30:41Yeah it's it's got to be you know, I I didn't I haven't covered this case a ton on the show. We we talked about it probably about three times before other than we were live on air when when it happened. Obviously, we were like all stunned. I was with Nate and and Chris from the religion business when that happened September 10th, but you know, I didn't do like full podcasts on it and then couple things happened. My my guy Alessio has been with me forever was up in town. He lives down in Florida now and and he came up here so we recorded one on his podcast when he was here and he asked me about it a little bit and we
31:13talked about it and some of those clips especially the ones with Erica went a little viral.
31:17Where I gave some opinion then I had Clint Russell in here as well and we talked about it for about 15 minutes, but until I had Joseph Scott Morgan in here to like just break down the forensic side of it. We hadn't talked about it in depth, but you have you've done 150 plus episodes on this at this point and you know, you were talking about this right away. So you know, what was it like in in October, you know, to be raising those kinds of questions even about someone who's like a grieving widow and all that at a time where like, you know, a lot of people might take that the wrong way even if that is
31:51like what we are clearly feel many of us were clearly feeling and seeing. Was that a little nerve-racking to talk about it that way?
31:57>> I didn't talk about her.
31:58>> You didn't?
31:59>> I didn't. I gave her the benefit of the doubt for months and what changed?
32:04The book tour in December. It was so bizarre, so weird. Um the interview with Barry Weiss, the Fox and Friends appearance.
32:15Um every I watched all of it and every single appearance she did that week. I think it was like December 10th to 15th, something like that. It was mid It was mid-December.
32:24Um every single [clears throat] appearance she did that week was so bananas that I thought I I I've got to I I would fight my listeners cuz I at the end of my show I'll do Q&A and I'll just pull up questions and I've you know, depending on how late I want to stay up, but sometimes I'll do 2 hours of just Q&A with people. Just boom boom boom just questions questions questions.
32:44Um and I was fielding questions on a daily basis at the time.
32:50Erica's too weird. You're being too nice. She's not a grieving widow. She killed him and I was like, guys, you can't say that. And I was like, I've never lost my spouse. My spouse is very much alive. We've been married 25 years.
32:59Everything's fine, you know. Um that I don't know what I would be like if if she was suddenly murdered the next day. I've no idea how I'd react. Maybe I would be weird. Um maybe I would act strangely. I'm very um very much not a public crier.
33:15Um I've I've gotten sad a few times in public and I'm the most awkward sad public person you've ever seen. I hate it. I'm trying to stop it at the same time and I I just don't like it.
33:26Um it's a very vulnerable position and if you don't like feeling vulnerable, you don't like being emotional in public.
33:31And you know, I kind of looked at her through those eyes. Maybe she's just very vulnerable. She's had a vulnerable childhood. She had vulnerable relationships. She's not very confident in in her emotions. She don't know how to handle them, so she acts weird. I really this was not me just playing the game. This was not me just talking points. I genuinely thought she was acting weird, but I genuinely didn't know what to make of it and was unwilling to comment on it. And then the book tour happened.
33:59And I thought, no. This this something wrong here.
34:02Um particularly the Bari Weiss interview. I mean, that that was that was so performative to me, so strange.
34:10Um the the love for our greatest ally and and and I mean, it was like so over the top and I thought, now there's something here.
34:20This this is not right. I did I still at the time would not come out and say and I I don't believe I've ever said, she killed Charlie Kirk or she planned to kill Charlie Kirk or she was in on it.
34:31But I've have allowed my mind to speculate. And I Yeah, what does [clears throat] it speculate?
34:36Well, I mean, it speculates that that she doesn't have a very good alibi for where she was uh on September 8th and 9th. It speculates that she doesn't frankly have a very good alibi for where she was on September 10th.
34:46Um >> Where did she say she was again?
34:48>> She said she was at a on September 10th?
34:50>> Yeah.
34:51>> I think she's I think her current story is her story maybe has not changed. She was at a clinic with her mom.
34:56Um she was watching the live stream, which is unusual because that live stream supposedly was not something they typically did. That was something new they were doing that day.
35:07Um and Teryl Farnsworth told Candace Owens that they were live streaming quote back to the ops in Arizona that they were trying something new.
35:16>> [snorts] >> Um and the fact that she's at a clinic with her very ill mother and I I do believe her mother's very ill.
35:25Uh the fact that she was at a clinic with her very ill mother, but she's watching the live stream of her husband do something he's done what, a thousand times?
35:33>> Right.
35:33>> Like, why why are you watching that one that day? I mean, you know, Utah Valley University, fine university, not knocking it. It's not Harvard. Um it's not, you know, it's not uh Ohio State, it's not UCLA, it's not one of the bigger super high-profile universities in the country. It's It's a It's a good school in the heart of Utah that has some great students and professors, I'm sure.
35:57Um but it's not, you know, if you if you're going on a college tour and you're talking on all the college tours, 100 college campuses a year or whatever he was doing, Utah Valley University's not one that would stand out and say, "Oh my gosh, this is the one I've got to watch live as it happens."
36:13And so, [snorts] she says she's watching it and she's watching him throw out hats. So, obviously they're live streaming the the hat throwing. So, who was live streaming the hat throwing cuz all the other cameras were just focused on Charlie.
36:23They were just set up on Charlie.
36:25Um so, >> was going to be sitting.
36:27>> Yeah.
36:28>> Yeah.
36:28>> The three people >> when he's out standing in the crowd.
36:30>> Yeah, so so whose camera is she watching? Whose camera is fixed on him?
36:34He's throwing out hats. Then she says she puts her phone face down because she's with her mom.
36:39And then she said Mikey called a few seconds later after it happened.
36:43>> Mikey McCourt?
36:44>> Mikey McCourt, the um Charlie's chief of staff.
36:48Uh, and and I think a pretty close family friend of theirs.
36:52And um And and you know That's a that's a that's a good story, but is that the Bob's Burgers story? You know, did they actually go on a date in Scottsdale before they went to Bob's Burgers? Did they You know, that's a it's a pretty cool story, but did did you actually graduate summa [ __ ] laude, you know, from with a double degree from wherever, uh, Arizona State? Uh, that's a pretty cool story, but was that really only your second pageant or was it your sixth?
37:18The problem with Erica is it's tough to believe her stories because so many of her stories don't hold up under scrutiny.
37:25>> That's right.
37:26>> And so, you know, if someone asks, "Where were you on that day?" You saying I was with my mom is not very compelling cuz you say a lot of things that that when you scrutinize them don't really hold up.
37:37One of the things I would do if I was her PR person is I would I would get I would get a hold of everything she's ever said publicly.
37:45From the from the time she was 16 doing beauty pageants until yesterday.
37:50And I would somehow, whether you feed it into chat GPT or uh, whether you just create a spreadsheet or just memorize it, I would figure out what your story is.
38:02And I would make sure you either never address anything on that story ever again or you clarify it.
38:08>> Yeah.
38:08>> Um I would also, if I was TPUSA, call everybody into a conference room and say, "The next person that lies is fired."
38:16The next person who tells a story that's inconsistent is fired. Like we have a massive credibility gap. It's starting at the top, but it's bleeding through everybody. Andrew, your Twitter feed is a disaster. It is so easily disprovable on on many occasions. So, let's stop this. Let's stop just winging it.
38:34Let's get some discipline. Let's get some messaging. Um and let's stick to it. And if you if if it's not on the sheet, you don't know.
38:42If they ask where you were on this day and it's not on the sheet, I don't know.
38:44I'll check my calendar and get back to you.
38:46Uh cuz we're only talking about what's on this sheet from now on.
38:50Um but that's that's supposedly where she was on September 10th. Um and I don't know that I believe it.
38:57>> Do you have you had I presume people from TPUSA reach out to you behind the scenes?
39:03>> Yes.
39:04Lots.
39:05>> Lots of them. Like high-up people as well, I take it.
39:10What's without revealing specifics of stuff you want to keep private? Like what's the nature of that? Shut the [ __ ] up or like, "Hey, we want to write your path here where you actually have this wrong. We could help you out with that."
39:22Like what what are they What are the types of things they're saying to you?
39:24>> I've been given a lot of corrections. Um where I've speculated on things and they say, "Here here's what actually happened."
39:30>> Mhm.
39:30>> Um and I've subtly made those corrections without burning a source.
39:34>> [laughter] >> Got it.
39:35>> Um >> [clears throat] >> I've had uh >> So, meaning you had maybe sources that were around TPUSA or in it that maybe told you something that then wasn't true.
39:45Verifiably and you're like, "Okay, so I don't want to burn them, but >> Well, or I had said something uh publicly on a on a podcast and somebody said, "Well, this is you didn't quite get it right. Here's what really happened."
39:57And then, you know, I can I can subtly make that change over the next few weeks without anyone really realizing that I've talked to someone.
40:05>> Mhm.
40:05>> Um so, that's happened a few times.
40:07Um and I've I've had good contact with a couple of particular people who um who have given me the temperature of what it's really like in there right now.
40:17>> What's it like in there right now?
40:19>> Um she's she's not super supported um from from some of the top people.
40:26>> Including people that maybe are putting on a face publicly.
40:29>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
40:30Um that's what I'm told. I can only I can the information is only as good as people tell me, but um not super supported, not really running things um is kind of the you know, you guys keep saying she's running it into the ground. She's not running much of anything.
40:47Um and that's, you know, that's that's the two big things. I mean, I've I've gotten specific piece of information I'm not going to talk about, but but that's sort of the that's sort of the general consensus that I keep getting.
41:02>> Got it.
41:04When he when when he was shot, obviously we've seen all the video after that, guys.
41:09>> You used the word shot oh very loosely there.
41:10>> Yeah, loosely there, but you know, when when he was when he was hit and went down and everyone sees the blood come out and then you see the security team converge. They obviously ended up taking him carrying his body back to the truck.
41:25There was no ambulance near there, I guess, at the time.
41:28So, they take him to the truck and what was it? Five guys in the car with him?
41:32>> Yeah.
41:32>> Okay.
41:34What are some of the things there that you've taken issue with as far as what's been reported about what happened with his body just going from the point of attack to the car to the hospital?
41:46>> You know, I I can't second-guess the security team um and say what I would have done differently because I've never worked personal security, I've never been trained for it, I don't know all the things that go into it.
41:57Um you know, it's easier to hire someone to do it than try to figure it out yourself.
42:01Um it's but when you look at it just based on their statements, there are a lot of things I think probably went wrong from the beginning. For example, we we we talked about the roofs.
42:13>> Mhm.
42:13>> I think three or four people from TPUSA have been on record saying that they were concerned about the roofs.
42:21Well, if you're concerned about the roofs, you have two options. Well, three really. They took the third option and it didn't work out.
42:28Uh the first two options though could have kept them alive. Number one is you either solve the roof problem by putting your own people on the roofs or you put somebody to high position that has roof oversight. Like I've done big events. I've been at big events.
42:44Um bigger events than that frankly, you know, tens or hundreds of thousands of people.
42:48And I know the security protocol that we were told, you know, hey, you'll have something in your ear. If you hear a certain word, that's stage clear.
42:56Everyone's gone. Show's over, folks. You know, sorry, you will not be getting a refund. Goodbye.
43:01Um why why wasn't that in place? Why didn't they have somebody at the highest point?
43:06If they're worried about the roofs, figure out which roof is the highest and stick somebody up there.
43:11And the second you see somebody in all black climbing on a roof, whatever the code word is, purple purple purple purple purple. Show's over, folks.
43:17Charlie's gone. Sorry. Sorry to end it 8 minutes into the program, but you know, he's in Salt Lake City before anyone knows what happened.
43:24Um you know, if you're if you're not going to do that, >> [snorts] >> then then you have to conduct the entire thing from a different security posture in my opinion. You have to you have to uh if you're not going to have somebody at high point watching the roofs or you're not going to have somebody stationed on the roofs, you have to have security run in mind with the roofs are a primary concern.
43:48So, if maybe you're watching roofs from the ground. Maybe you have somebody stationed in different place. Maybe you move the tent. Maybe you delay the event an hour to to reconvene um from a slightly different angle or a slightly different location. I don't know.
44:02But I know the third option is the one they chose and it's what it was hey, Charlie, we don't like the looks of these roofs. These roofs look dangerous.
44:08You look like you're at risk. Here, sit here.
44:11Do your show here. We'll make sure nobody's overlooking the roofs. We'll make sure nobody's on the roofs. Just have a seat here, sir. You'll be fine."
44:18Now, that's that's that's not it. I mean, I I I I've said this uh many times on my show, if I'm hiring security people, I'd rather have somebody smart than beefy.
44:28You know, the fact that you can roll around and shoot a gun while you're rolling is not as impressive to me as watching around as I'm walking down the street.
44:35Uh not as impressive as having situational awareness and enough of an IQ that you can detect, "Hey, something's not right. I don't feel good. Let's Let's go a different direction. Let's get out of here."
44:45Um >> So, his IQ is pretty good, then.
44:48>> He's a very smart guy.
44:49>> [laughter] >> Struck me that way.
44:50>> We IQ people. We IQ test people.
44:52Um No, but [snorts] I mean, that's that's more of a concern to me. You know, I Because once the shooting starts, you've lost. That's right. You know, the game's over.
45:01Um I I tell people this with a lawyer all the time. Don't get sued. Once you get sued, you've already lost. I don't care if you win, you've lost. It's going to cost you a lot of money. It's very inconvenient. It's very Lawyers win.
45:11Yeah. Um There With with free speech and journalism, there are some protections because you can always, you know, like anti-slap statutes, for example. I'm sure you're familiar with with what you do.
45:22Um but But I I think from a a pre-show posture, it seems to me evident on its face that there was a failure.
45:33Um but that's not me coming and saying "Brian Harpole's group failed Charlie and got him killed." That's not the point. My point is, as we're second-guessing and looking, the next time somebody does an event and someone doesn't feel comfortable with the roofs, let's let's evaluate the roofs. Let's let's think about it. And let's let's evaluate whether we should do the show at all or should we put people in different places.
45:52The excuse they keep giving that, "Oh, we only have permission to be in this area right here." Well, Tyler Robinson didn't have permission to get on the Losie Center roof, either, but he did.
46:00That's their story.
46:01So, if he doesn't [snorts] have permission to get up there, yet somehow manages to, you got 12 or 13 people with you and you can't put one person on the highest point in the facility that's overlooking the tent?
46:11The Loews Anatole would have been a pretty good place. You'd have had operational oversight over the entire field.
46:17That sounds like a great place to be.
46:18Right.
46:19>> When did this this particular security team know cuz again this was a new this was a new tour he was going on this was the first one.
46:28They put this team together shortly before that, right? It was it would those guys hadn't all worked together for Charlie Kirk prior to this point or am I misremembering that?
46:38>> I think [snorts] the base of the team had worked for Charlie Kirk for a while.
46:43I think we can safely say that.
46:44>> for him.
46:45>> I don't I I don't know the way that we can say they'd never work for him, but I know that they hadn't spent years working with him. I think we can safely say that.
46:52>> Got it.
46:53All right, so you talked about the .30-06 and some of the issues with, you know, wondering how the hell that bullet could have been stopped and all that and you mentioned what was the gentleman's name again who who initially had the shot from another Chris Mortensen. Chris Mortensen. So, you mentioned his theory. What do you like bad visual to give, but gun to your head, what do you think actually killed him?
47:20>> I don't know.
47:21>> You don't know.
47:22>> I don't know.
47:23I don't think it was a gunshot.
47:25Um I I I I don't I don't necessarily think it was a single modality. I think it could have been multiple things taking place at once.
47:36>> What do you mean by that?
47:37>> Well, I mean if you're going to if if if you've made an operational decision to kill Charlie Kirk, are you going to have the entire operation rest on a single point of failure?
47:47In other words, are we going to put a sniper on the roof and hope he kills him? You know, people get shot point-blank in the head and live.
47:53If the goal is to kill him, >> That's right. You want him dead. Like you do not want him walking out of there.
48:00Um and so maybe you maybe you have built-in redundancy. You know, when you get on an airplane, if there's no there's no critical uh function that that rests on a single point of failure. There's there's backup, usually usually triplicate backup.
48:14Um that's why planes don't fall out of the sky very often. Cars are different.
48:17Cars have single points of failure, but you just pull over to the side of the road.
48:20>> Right.
48:21>> pull the plane over to the side of the road. You know, it's going to fall out of the sky from 35,000 ft.
48:25So, um most critical functions are are redundant. And I think in this situation, you'd probably have redundancy.
48:32>> Mhm.
48:33>> Um and so it's undeniable to me that something moved his something caused his shirt to move in a very unnatural way that's inconsistent with a bullet.
48:42Um the Rode microphone um actually travel with him. I have him with me.
48:47Uh the Rode microphone goes from his right collar all the way towards the middle of his neck. Um those have mass. They're not easy to move.
48:56Uh his necklace, which is hanging down by his shirt >> They have mass. I mean, they're they're they're not they're not Styrofoam.
49:02>> Mat like m a s s?
49:03>> Yeah, mass.
49:04>> Okay, yeah, yeah.
49:04>> Yeah, I mean, they they have they have substance. They're not they're not the heaviest things in the world, but they're not the lightest things in the world. To get one to move at that pace in two frames of a camera, you know, you're talking a 30th of a second, a 15th of a second to move from your right collarbone to the middle of your neck in in a 15th of a second or 30th of a second. That's very, very fast. Something caused that.
49:26Um did it explode? Did something eject out of it? I don't know. Uh was it damaged?
49:32Did it did it remain whole? I don't know. Um it would be easy to prove it remained whole, just you know, those those those record on a 32-bit waveform, just release it. You know, or show us that it kept recording.
49:44I think you could fake it, but at least you could try to show that it didn't explode.
49:48Um so his microphone moved. His necklace that the charm was hanging down in the pictures down below his sternum, like right below his xiphoid process right there. Um it shot up towards his neck at basically the speed of light. I mean it it it was so fast.
50:07What caused that? That's that's not a gunshot wound to the neck. That necklaces don't jump that high uh when you're struck in the neck. There are some angles that look like the the necklace on the back of his neck the chain on the back of his neck go straight back off his neck or at least his shirt go straight back off of his neck.
50:25And you can still see the neck and I don't see a hole.
50:29So if the gunshot wound to the neck is supposedly causing all this stuff, why is this happening before a hole appears in his neck?
50:35Um and that's possible the hole was super small, but it didn't look super small with that much blood coming out of it.
50:41Um so there's there's just a lot of problems with the gunshot narrative that I default to the fact that there's something that was acting on his on his body. There was some force that was acting on his body. Uh whether that force came from the microphone, from the necklace, whether it was some high-tech force that we don't even know exists, you know, some sort of uh you know, for lack of a better word, like an EMP or something that blasted at him all at once.
51:08I really don't know the answer to that.
51:10>> Is there a way that whether it's in like Chris Martinson's lane of of a second and an actual second shooter down there, different gun, is there a way that if someone shooting from much closer than 138 yards as it was alleged where Tyler Robinson shot, that you know, the [snorts] kinetic energy or types of things that could happen could explain the movement of the mic, of the shirt, of the of the chain in the back and all that in a more satisfying way than what they say happened from 138 yards away?
51:40>> I think the closer you are, the more force a .30 caliber round arrives with, the more likely it is to blow out the back of his neck.
51:45Um so I'm I'm not entirely satisfied with that, but I think you know I I don't think he was shot with a bullet. Uh, if he was, it was a redundancy because the injuries are in my opinion and the people I've talked to, I've talked to several medical professionals last couple of days since the uh since the prosecution filed their motion that included a few lines from the medical exam.
52:05Um >> They Oh, they filed it?
52:07>> Yeah. I mean, there there's injuries from the top of his heart to the top of his head.
52:11Um, it's it's really difficult for me to accept that all of that took place from a single gunshot wound.
52:19>> So, injuries meaning like internal bleeding, uh bruises every day like a litany of things.
52:23>> Hemorrhaging, um I I'm not a doctor and they were big words and I had to look up every word just to understand what they were saying.
52:30>> Yeah.
52:30>> Uh, but I mean, even like the parietal lobe of his brain above it was damaged.
52:36I mean, you're talking like 2 ft worth of of injuries.
52:41Um it it's it it it's something that's just to me unprecedented. Like I I looked and looked for examples of those types of injuries from gunshot wounds. You can't find the collection of them in any single gunshot wound in the neck that that that I could find. I did not look at every medical exam ever conducted in history, but >> No, be interesting. It's way above my pay grade, but >> above mine as well.
53:01>> That's interesting that it's that >> It's a tremendous amount of of of of damage.
53:08The the most telling thing that they filed in their motion was that he his C2 to C6 was obliterated.
53:16>> A Is that what they wrote?
53:17>> Yeah. The the left side, so the side where the wound was >> Mhm.
53:21>> uh from C2, which is way up here, to C6, which is down here, the left side of all those vertebrae were completely obliterated.
53:29And his spinal cord was traumatically absent in that range. Meaning there was no connection from his brain to his body at all.
53:40>> That's so even beyond death, when he was hit, he was a quadriplegic.
53:45Am I hearing that right or did I totally [ __ ] that up?
53:48>> yes, according to the medical exam. But then now go back and watch the video and I can't play the video on YouTube, neither can you, because YouTube doesn't like that video. But if you go back and watch the video after this all happens, after his C2 to C6 spinal cord is completely gone, traumatically absent, completely transected from >> Do what?
54:07>> He fences, right?
54:08>> Yeah. He he he clinches both fists. He flexes his elbows. His knees stay out.
54:13He stays erect. His head stays up.
54:16>> And there's no way again, way above my pay grade, there's no medical explanation for that being physically possible.
54:21>> No, I talked to a neurosurgeon yesterday after that came out or 2 days ago, whenever it was.
54:27Um, I talked to uh a professor of that that I can't remember what his title was, but it was long.
54:34Um and I had them go over this with me line by line and both of them agreed and the professor started giving me citations to PubMed papers that demonstrate that it's impossible.
54:47That once you lose that once it transects, you have about 1/10 of a second before everything goes flaccid. And and and the way he described it was he said, "I'm not saying flaccid like he would have dropped the microphone. I'm saying he would have lost all muscle tone from the neck down. Like every muscle would have turned into just goo. It would have just all complete His knees would have collapsed. He would have fallen immediately off the chair. His head would have immediately fallen over. He would have He wouldn't have held onto the microphone and then slowly let it go. Like we watched the video together."
55:18>> Yeah.
55:19>> He wouldn't have slowly let go of the microphone.
55:21Everything would have collapsed. Gravity would have taken over to his body in instantly. Like he said like a 10th to a 10th and a half of a second is all you have left. Once those electrical charges are gone, the body's done. It's no longer receiving any input whatsoever from the brain.
55:37So I look at that and I say, "Okay, well, something obviously was still acting on his body."
55:42I'd speculated in October because of um because of a medical professional who contacted me.
55:49And and he said at the time that it looked more like electrocution than a gunshot to him because >> Electrocution?
55:55>> Yeah. He said because because of the flexion.
55:58And this was after the Andrew Colvette tweet is what prompted him to to reach out because he said, "Hey, if if he had that much damage to his vertebrae, his spinal cord likely was transected and he wouldn't have been holding on anything. Something had to be powering his nervous system that's not his brain.
56:16And the only thing he was holding on to that had power was the microphone. He said, "Have you looked into the fact that the microphone may have lit him up?" And so, I started looking up um video of singers who would touch those same SM58 Shure microphones.
56:29And they did the they did a lot of the same stuff. They would you know, and fall back to the to the stage.
56:35Um so, I don't know.
56:37I really don't know what it was. Um but I I'm confident 99.9% confident it was not a .30-06 to the neck. That that would not produce, in my opinion, and I'm not a doctor, but I have talked to them, and they're confident as well. Uh it wouldn't produce those damages. Like something else was going on.
56:56Um it's possible he was struck with something in the neck other than a .30-06.
57:00Um it's possible he was electrocuted, it's possible something happened to the road microphone, something else was strapped to his body that we don't even know was strapped to his body because they were trying something new and streaming back to the ops in in Arizona.
57:13Um But but to me, the .30-06 narrative died with that filing.
57:17>> Mhm.
57:18>> Uh and keep in mind, when a medical examiner does the exam, they're not watching the video. They're just describing what they see.
57:24>> Yeah.
57:24>> You know, and they might very well have seen that damage.
57:28But they didn't know he was still flexing and had this apparent decorticate posture after his C2 to C6 was traumatically absent.
57:36So, you know, to answer the question, how did he die? I don't know.
57:39>> Mhm.
57:39>> Um >> Would you make it the bullet Do we have a picture of that, T, of the bullet they released at the preliminary hearing?
57:46Where they put out It was with like a measuring stick.
57:50As again, I do live in a country where they released They talked about magic bullets, so >> Yeah.
57:55>> [laughter] >> Well, this is not only This is not only a magic bullet, it's a missing bullet. Um the the lady who tested it for the ATF, the lady who testified about the testing for the ATF, um read from a report where seven fragments were removed from Charlie's body.
58:13>> Seven fragments.
58:14>> Yeah.
58:15But she only received four in an envelope, in a manila envelope.
58:19She received four of the seven.
58:22I would think in a murder investigation, you would want If you pull something out of his body, that would go along with the rest of the evidence. Where are the other three pieces? Are these the same four pieces that were pulled out of his body? I don't know.
58:33Uh it's possible the autopsy photos will will show that yes, in fact, those were exactly what was pulled out of his body.
58:39But we also don't know the chain of custody of his body.
58:42Um he wasn't taken by ambulance.
58:45He was surrounded by security people >> [clears throat] >> who didn't guard the roof.
58:51Um so, that's the casing.
58:53>> Yeah. The one that was at Sorry, I forgot to say it. The >> [snorts] >> The one that actually showed like the aftermath of it.
59:01They released it at the trial. You know, when we did solo number 23 after JSM, I think I put that link in that Google Drive folder. That would have been like 3 weeks ago.
59:11So, it should be there, but it shows it next to like an actual measurement, so you can see like how the bullet allegedly changed and all that. But like So, do you think You would You would use this word a few minutes ago. I want to make sure I understood this. You said that there could have been something that was a redundancy. Meaning like maybe a a bullet was fired after he was already hit with something else.
59:32>> Well, so this would be an example of redundancy. I'm not saying this is it.
59:35But let's let's throw everything in together.
59:37Um you've got let's say he was the mic electrocuted him, he was shot in the neck, the road microphone exploded, they broke his neck under the table, they you know >> Broke his neck under the table?
59:48>> What what I'm saying is you you every theory out there is it could be pulled into this redundancy.
59:55You know, um in other words, he's walking in and he's not walking out.
59:59>> Right.
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