0:01So, you get the part. You guys filmed it all in 1971. Movie comes out I I want to say like March 72, something like that.
0:09>> Yeah, somewhere like that.
0:10>> Somewhere in there. Okay.
0:12>> How what was your first experience on I I assume you had like a giant cast meeting before you ever go to film and stuff like that where you meet the rest of the cast. Like what did the other actors think of you?
0:24>> That is a classic. The only saving grace for me, I would have probably got fired the first cast meeting was 119 Street Psies.
0:36Now, I used I used to go up there all the time >> because I used to bring overnight loans up there for Castello >> because you know that's fat Tony Solerno's place.
0:45>> Oh yeah.
0:45>> And they had zig games and all that. So when they put the call sheet out that that's where the thing you know the rehearsal is going to be. I'm I go and I at that time I had a 65 Bentley with a Chinese chick show for I'm wearing bion suits of reading. So I go up there earlier cuz I wanted to see Tony Federici, Danny Pagano, all these really guys were there all the time in the afternoon. So they said to me, "What are you doing here so early?" I said, "I'm here for the movie." I said, "Well, I'm with the Godfather movie." I said, "Yeah." Said, "What are you going to do?" I said, "I'm acting like a big
1:17dog." [laughter] They said, "You crazy. Get out of here."
1:21And everybody I used to say until the movie came out, they thought I was lying about it. [laughter] Which only leads me to what happens when me and Brando in here. You can't believe this story. I'm shocked you didn't hear this one.
1:34>> I've heard this one.
1:35>> Okay.
1:35>> But you got to tell it on the podcast for people that haven't.
1:38>> So now, you know, >> I didn't realize this was the very first.
1:42>> Before they bring Brando into the room, the whole cast is there. all in line and family and they re you know they said we're just going to read the script and you know there's no acting we're gonna go through it everybody get familiar but most important all the Italians we want you to exaggerate your hand gestures your eating habits we're going to have food because the nonItalians like James Khan being Jewish Marlon Brando being Polish have to become Italian the next five days in these rehearsals >> and Then they said, "Now we're going to bring him in. Don't have any eye contact with him during the breaks. I know you
2:21all want to talk to him."
2:22>> Brando.
2:23>> Brando, don't go near him.
2:26>> Hey, I didn't care. I'm just happy to be there. You [laughter] know, we go through the rehearsal like 45 minutes. We're going to take a break.
2:36Brando comes walking over to me and I'm looking around. Where's he coming? He's coming to me.
2:42He says, "Um, you're a big TV actor." I said, "No."
2:47He says, "You got a big movie coming out." I said, "No." He said, "Well, you're not on Broadway. I know everybody on Broadway." I said, "You're right again. What's this, a quiz show?"
2:55[laughter] >> Cuz I I ain't going to be intimidated by Brandon. What do I care?
3:00>> You're not even an actor.
3:01>> Guess what he says though? He calls Copa over. He says, "Francis, this guy's not an actor. And Copa didn't hire me. Copa did not hire me. Joe Columbo hired me."
3:12>> And he rolled his eyes. He knew I wasn't an actor. He says, "And I never broke down the script." He says, "This guy marries my daughter, undermines my family, gets my oldest son, Sunonny, killed, gets my son, Michael, involved in the business. You got to rethink this. You got to fire him >> and you're standing right there.
3:33>> I'm standing there now. I don't know protocol. I don't know. I can't dismiss Copela. [laughter] He's the director." I said, "Francis, do me a favor. Go over there." [laughter] And he goes, "Now the whole room, all these thespines that know all this, they're all saying like, who's this guy?" You know, Sterling Hayden's dad, Richard K, this a major actor.
4:00>> Now I create a sacrilege. I put my arm around Brando. [laughter] I said, "Come over here. I want to talk to you." Cuz I didn't want to embarrass the guy. And I knew there was no ziggoning that game in the back.
4:12>> So I get him out of ear shot. I'm face to face with him. I said, "Let me tell you something, Mr. Brando. All due respect, I know who you are. But you get me fired. You get me fired from here, I will suck on your heart. You will bleed out. You hear me?" And he's looking at me. He steps back. He says, "That was brilliant.
4:33>> That was excellent."
4:35>> He [laughter] thought I was I was ready to take the bomb out. I couldn't go back to the neighborhood if I didn't get the part after this.
4:40>> He's like, "That guy will do. He's good.
4:42He [laughter] can act."
4:43>> And we became very close friends.
4:44>> Did you actually think you were acting like doing that?
4:46>> Did he? I'm telling you what he did.
4:50Dick Smith, his his makeup man, he's on every film with him. Took him three hours every day. Oh, >> yeah.
4:56>> Transport him into that.
4:58>> He used And you couldn't go near a dressing. You couldn't do none of that.
5:01And we were on the compound up there in St. Helen.
5:04>> That's where they >> in the houses. But we went using them as dressing rooms, the interiors, [laughter] >> and he used to go get that kid and we'd run lines.
5:15He show he came on the set on time for me to shoot. He wasn't working that day when Pacino and I were going to do that scene. And then and you could see the ads number one's number who who told number one to come. They were and he said, "I'm here to help that kid."
5:34>> Wow. You were getting lessons from the greatest actor to ever [ __ ] do it.
5:38>> Because when he said to me and you and it's on on screen now, he when he hands you the airline ticket, what are you going to do? I said, I don't know. So, I want you to look at the ticket. You read the script. You know you're going to die, but you can't telegraph that.
5:53You're on an 18t screen. They're going to see it. You got to think. So, you got to look at that ticket like it's security blanket. You're going to get out of here. I'm really going to get to Vegas. So that was that whole thing. And then when you tear up and don't I mean now I'm an actor but I'm sitting there I'm saying how the am I going to do this?
6:13>> It's I I remember the first time when I was a kid and researching because I was obsessed with the movie and finding out who you were and finding out that you had never acted before and that and I was blown away because you were I can't see anyone else doing that role. I mean, I'm sure some great actors could could have done it, but you nailed it. I mean, everything felt >> it felt method aactory, you know what I mean? Like, it felt very real.
6:40Obviously, we all know the visceral nasty scene where you got to beat up your wife in the movie and everything, but you're just >> you just embodied the whole thing, but that LA to hear the backstory that last scene, >> that's it. You did it. That's that's amazing because that's to me like that's what makes the actors great. Making things simple and relatable at the same time. And that's [clears throat] exactly what he was telling you to do. You nailed it.
7:07>> Yeah.
7:07>> It's amazing.
7:08>> And you know it's so funny because you know as we sit here and talk about it even now it's it's like it's that I don't know what I would what I would be doing today if I was not in that movie. Is that crazy to say?
7:23>> No, it's not. because you were you were a young man when this was happening and this this set your whole life on a whole different Yeah.
7:30>> You you had a major part >> in hands down without question the greatest thing ever captured on film artistically.
7:37>> Yeah.
7:38>> I mean do you ever pinch yourself with that? Just like holy [ __ ] >> I think about it all the time. I mean I mean my house is surrounded by Godfather. Why wouldn't it be?
7:48>> Yeah.
7:49>> But uh and it's not over.
7:52>> No. No. and and they keep and they obviously they've put it in what's it the American Film Institute the official role that they did but they've retouched it up over the years. You watch it now minus the one part that they can't retouch cuz it's in the archives where somebody's hand misses your face. That's like the only mistake in the whole >> they can't touch it because it's once I I found this out the 25th uh anniversary go to San Francisco >> and we're watching the movie and and the thing is still in there. I said why didn't you recut that? is we can't touch the negative because it's it's a Academy
8:26Award winner.
8:27>> And that's what's crazy is that the one mistake is in that scene where he we can probably put this in the corner of the screen, Allessie, but where where Sunny is beating you up and they have the side shot of Jimmy Khan where his fist misses the front of your face and how you react to it.
8:44>> Yeah. And you're like, "Ah."
8:45>> But >> but and you know what's so funny? We had that covered. There was seven cameras rolling everything. But also the scene was really Didn't he really hurt you in the scene?
8:54>> Oh my god. Yeah, he did.
8:55>> So like he missed you on that shot. But the irony is he was really hitting you and [ __ ] >> Well, the way he really hit me was with the garbage bail covers. They were steel.
9:03>> So he chipped my elbow and then I knew I had to crawl out cuz we choreographed it the day before. There was like 17 different camera setups from the from the porch where I realized run across the street. Then he throws me over the the banister and then he beat and then I had to crawl out at the end of the scene when he drop kicks me and rolls me over to the hydrant. Now we had that all down. As soon as he touched me, I rolled. He lifted me up and broke two ribs that day. Now he hated me >> now. Yeah. Now you're the background there. You and Jimmy Khan from the get-go didn't get along. Why was that? I
9:41found out later on because Jimmy Khan, as I said earlier, was cast as Michael.
9:50>> Oh, Rich. Yeah, you can see his try out tape for that. That's on the internet.
9:53>> What I'm saying.
9:54>> Yeah.
9:55>> He thought me taking the part and everybody getting involved. That's how he got the smaller part of Sunny.
10:03Sunny was gone halfway through the first one. Couldn't come back. I don't think do you think Copela would have ever stuck with him for Michael though because he didn't look the part?
10:12>> No way.
10:13>> Right.
10:13>> But that that was Bobby Evans one of them because don't forget he just did Brian Piccolo. He had all the TV stuff.
10:20>> Yeah.
10:20>> They were looking at box office movie stars.
10:24>> Ryan O'Neal was was up for it. I mean come on.
10:26>> Yeah.
10:27>> I mean >> was he a dick to you from the start though?
10:29>> Oh from the start.
10:30>> Like the first day you were in Paty's was just giving you the cold shoulder.
10:34Well, from day one, always like I was one of them, you know.
10:39>> Got it.
10:41>> FBI and >> the FBI opened a file on him apparently.
10:45I don't know if this is like >> because of Junior >> Junior Persico.
10:51>> Yeah, cuz he was hanging out with all the mobsters.
10:53>> Oh, you don't hold it. I'll tell you another story. When Tommy when Tommy Bardi was with me and Booie De Chico, we know the last name, Frankie Boy Chico, who got shot down in Brooklyn, the under boss. Well, Boozy to Chico was a boss in the Gambino family >> and I was out with him. I know the guy 100 years. So I'm with Tommy Bardi Boozy Deico in Jill's on 52nd Street on a Saturday night. We're at the front bar.
11:27[clears throat] >> Jimmy comes out and he says Junior's in the back and he wants you to come and say hello. He's with his daughter. I know Junior 100 years. So I go back there and we hug, we kiss, and Junior had a Nobody knew he had a a [ __ ] So, we had something in common with polio.
11:50So, I'm looking and then then I turned around. I said, "Junior, your daughter's gorgeous. My god." And he looked at me and one thing about him, he telegraphs and I said, "Uh, >> Jimmy just set me up and I left." So, before going back to the bar, I went down to the stairs.
12:12So, as soon as I go down the stairs, I don't catch it. They're behind me. Two of Junior's guys follow me down. Tommy Bardi catches it. Goes down. I'm at the urinal. They come in. One guy stands in the door on the inside and you got in the Hey, [ __ ] You just embarrassed Junior. That's his girlfriend, not his daughter. And just as I say that, Tommy, I don't know if he hit it with his shoulder or whatever, but he pushed the bathroom so narrow. Pushed the guy his head and bangs it on the sink.
12:43>> Oh.
12:44little jiu-jitsu.
12:45>> He said, "Now, what are you going to do?" He said, "Oh, this punk punk banging."
12:50He says, "What's this about?" And he said, "Well," he went to the table and it was Junior's girl. He said, "Well, your friend, your Jewish friend told him that Junior was there with his daughter by this time." Now, Booie's there.
13:06So, Boozie goes upstairs. They could talk, Junior and him, because they're both made guys.
13:14>> Everybody else wasn't made yet. So they go in the kitchen and Jill's. Next they call Jimmy. Jimmy goes back to Yeah. Pa pa. Junior smacks him twice.
13:26>> Oh, I thought it was a gun sound first.
13:27>> No, no, no, no, no. Smacks him. So we walk back and he apologized to me, Junior. He said, "Johnny, I'm sorry.
13:36This guy wants to hang around with me to learn he's playing this part." I said, "I know." He said, "Well, I'm going to teach you something, Jimmy." Junior says to him, he now they own you. He said, "What do you mean?" He said, "Well, you did something here. This guy's a friend of ours." Johnny's a friend of ours.
13:58You're a friend on the street that he's >> You said friend of ours.
14:02>> Yeah. Meaning me.
14:03>> Yeah. Interesting though. Interesting language choice there. So Jimmy Tommy wanted to kill him that night. I said, "Tommy, we shoot it in the movie. You kill him. The movie's over." [laughter] >> So, and Tommy got right right in his face. I own you. That you heard him say it. I own you. I'll get him with you.
14:23>> Never happened. But >> And so James was hanging out with some of these guys though >> all the time.
14:27>> Yeah. He like got really John Russo [ __ ] all those guys.
14:31>> Can you pull up Junior Persico if you don't mind? Allessie. or Junior was a major guy in him, >> didn't he? He didn't He didn't die that [clears throat] long ago.
14:39>> No.
14:39>> Right. That was pretty recent. He was down with Maid Off, >> right?
14:42>> In prison, I think.
14:44>> Yeah.
14:44>> Yeah.
14:45>> Wow. Cuz he was in the in the big 86 Rico trial, right? That was where those five bosses. Yeah.
14:55>> I forget what they called that. Yeah, there he is. Persico.
14:58>> God, what a bulb on him.
15:00>> Oh my god.
15:00>> He could smoke a cigarette in the rain with a hand tied behind his back. Yeah.
15:04>> Wow.
15:06>> So tough >> guy though.
15:07>> So yeah, I mean he was the boss of the boss of the family. Definitely a tough son of a [ __ ] >> But so you and James didn't get along.
15:14So when you were doing How long was that shoot that that where he comes to beat up your character? Did that take all day?
15:22>> Oh yeah, a lot. I was hurt, but I figured, you know, >> kept coming.
15:26>> My first movie. No, I wanted to do it.
15:28So we did it. You know, I ain't got to complain.
15:30Even though even when he came out of the car and threw that stick at me, that wasn't that that wasn't in the rehearsals.
15:37>> He got a a Billy stick and cut it in half and he must have been practicing all night. Come here. Come here.
15:42>> Yeah, he threw hit me right on the head.
15:45One take. [laughter] >> Oh my god. Who else? Who else in the cast did you get along with really well?
15:52At least >> Pacino was very nice. You know, we had a lot of scenes together, so it was easy.
15:59But other than that, I mind my own business because, you know, >> I was making so much money.
16:04>> I was making the calls. Nobody knew this. I can say it now.
16:07>> What do you mean you were making the calls?
16:09>> Well, we had 700 people up there for the weddings.
16:13The wedding scene, the party.
16:14>> Yeah. Yeah. The wedding scene in the movie. Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah.
16:16>> Well, they were all 700 people, right?
16:18[snorts] >> So, I'm looking around and we had a union delegate up there and he's looking at everything. So, I went down. I called on them cuz we had no soda to drink, no water to drink because then what they'd have to do when they say roll them, everybody had to get rid of this plastic cup. They have plastic cups.
16:37>> So I So they came to me because I knew everything on Staten Island. Said, "How can we get cases of soda up here and all that?" So what's the budget that we take care of? I said, "Yeah, you want it served?" They said, "Yeah." So I went to community college. which was Staten Island Community College right down the street where we were unit on the unit parking lot and I went to the drama class. I said, "You guys want to come on the set?" Cuz it was a closed set. They said, "You have to serve soda. Be quiet." And you followed [laughter] them. They were paying me $18. I was buying a soda for $67 on on Highland
17:12Boulevard from >> So So you were running a little little scheme right there.
17:15>> Well, even the wedding cakes, they had to get a wedding.
17:19>> Make your daughter a bigger cake. Yeah.
17:21So I said, "Lose I I get L Rose." So I went to Little Rose's bakery down on on Olympia Boulevard in South Beach. I says, >> "You want to make the cake for the wedding?" Oh, yeah. I says, >> "They ain't paying you nothing for they gave me 1,500 for the cake."
17:41[laughter] >> And then they needed two. They needed one for cutting. They needed for the set out of styrofoam. Oh, so he made he made >> I made like $67,000 on cake.
17:52>> Now, what's that conversation like with Copela? Like, Frank, I got the cake.
17:55Relax. Is that it?
17:56>> Yeah. No, not even him. It was the set designer.
17:59>> Don't worry about it. I got the >> They said see Johnny, he knows everybody. I I took care of them a little too.
18:04>> And you got Morgana King, the wife of of Veto cast.
18:08>> Yeah. Cuz they needed a woman that could speak Cican, >> which is way different than regular Italian dialect.
18:15>> That dialect, you don't Yeah. Oh, it's different.
18:17>> And I knew her well.
18:19>> How did you know her?
18:20>> Just from hanging out in New York in the clubs.
18:23>> She killed it. She did a great job with that. She was perfect.
18:26>> Y >> perfect. And then also you casted the the musicians at the wedding, too.
18:33>> Yeah.
18:33>> You knew those guys?
18:34>> Yeah. Well, a lot of them. And then Lucatzi.
18:38>> Oh, yeah. He was a real mobster.
18:39>> Yeah. Lanny Montana. He was a wrestler and a collector >> for the mob. You don't say >> and they they saw him they loved him and one of the and this is a classic for your audience to know when you digest the scene of Lucatzi he's monster killer and he was his man why would he be rehearsing a script Godfather on your day of what's wedding I wish you never he was rehearsing his lines >> yeah yeah yeah and Frank thought it was good >> and closed in shot put it in the movie.
19:16[laughter] Nobody figured out why is this guy guy can't even supposedly read.
19:20How's he reading his script over and over?
19:22>> Don Kleó.
19:23>> Yeah, >> I am grateful and honored that one before. That's the the other one cuz like when when I was in college, I had some people close to me who were telling me I needed to get into acting.
19:36So I looked at it for there was about a year there where I did I didn't really talk about it but I I thought about it you know I read Lee Strawber's book the whole bit and I studied these guys I watched every frame that Marlon Brando ever filmed and he was in my opinion without question the greatest ever do it >> but the genius of the Godfather to me with him was that he was at a point where he was kind you know he was as you said and you would know a lot better than me but he was a different kind of guy right and at that point He had actually become a little bit within the studios persona non grata because he was
20:12a diva in some ways on the sets.
20:15>> Well, he you know he wanted certain things.
20:17>> Yeah.
20:18>> And demanded it and then they didn't want to use him no more.
20:21>> But he when he did this movie a guy who has 0% Italian blood in him >> embodied the bulldog >> of what this is.
20:31>> And there's a famous picture. I don't know if you can pull it up and put it in the corner of the screen, but if you type in Robert Duvall Marlon Brando script Godfather.
20:46>> Oh, on with this with the writing on them. Yeah.
20:49>> Yes. So, see if do you see a picture of you see the one where where Duvall's wearing the the script?
20:56>> Yeah, there it is.
20:56>> Yeah.
20:57>> So, >> he never studied his line.
20:59>> He didn't know a single [ __ ] line.
21:01No. So when you watch the opening scene of that film, which is the greatest I think a glorious bastards has the second greatest the opening scene, seven minutes of the Godfather is the greatest opening to a movie ever done that I believe in America pulling it out for four and a half or three and a half minutes whatever it is on the slow zoom and you see this guy sitting around like well you found paradise in America made it and he's looking around in what feels like this thinking man's way and yet as I understand it they had the Q cards all over >> the whole >> That's unbelievable.
21:35>> Yeah. But you know what he did too? I was cuz I got really close to him. He used to and you know what I gave him as a gift.
21:42>> What was that?
21:44>> My Chinese chick driver. He took it back. [laughter] She fell in love with him. So they were dropping me off first and then going to the Eliza hotel. He was staying on the Iliza and she stay with him all night.
21:56And then at the end of the movie I said why don't you go? You know, she went to his island.
22:02>> Didn't you get Al Al Ruddy one of those too at one point? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh my god.
22:07>> Now he loved Chinese girls, too.
22:10[laughter] >> So you So he obviously liked you and was helping you out, but were you you said you kind of stuck to yourself and everything, but did I guess if he was teaching you along the way, were you hanging out with him a little bit?
22:22>> Oh, I was with Brando every day.
22:24>> Yeah. Oh, >> when he was on the set, I was there every day. It was like a three-hour lesson a day going over lines, going over talking, and every that's another reason James Con hated me. He wanted to be up his ass and I'm with the guy >> and I used to pick him up. We used to pick him up at the hotel.
22:42>> Where was he staying?
22:43>> He was at the Ele >> on the 45th or something like that. He liked it there.
22:49>> That's a little hike to Staten Island every day though.
22:51>> Yeah, but we everybody was staying the the cast was staying at the park lane. M >> further up >> and you're living in New York at this time, right?
23:01>> Yeah.
23:01>> Yeah. Yeah. No, >> I'd swing by and pick him up and have a bottle of kvasier in the morning when he'd have his coffee and we'd sit there in the back with the tables open and drink and that's how the mooning started. Remember?
23:13>> Keep keep with the mic. Sorry.
23:14>> You heard about all the mooning, right?
23:16>> When he would moon like other people on the >> Yeah, they they had a contest about mooning.
23:20>> Yeah. And how it started going down Park Avenue as you know the red lights you stop red lights you stop. So the station wagon they had Robert Duval Jim Conn I think Pacino the the top cast going to Stan Allen.
23:37We're at a red light one light they look two red lights they look very after the fourth red light Jimmy Khan stuck his ass out the window of the station wagon and moon us. That's how the mooning started.
23:50>> Oh my god.
23:53>> I mean, I think there was so immature mooning. I saw you crazy.
23:56>> Well, he was like that. No, like he was a really immature guy.
23:59>> Oh my god. Jerk.
24:01>> A jerk.
24:02>> Yeah. And and Brando was also >> he love he loved practical jokes.
24:06>> Yes.
24:07>> Well, Je Brando won the contest >> is for with the Luca Brazie thing. The [ __ ] you on the >> No, for the mooning.
24:14>> Oh, on the mooning. the weather the the uh the wedding picture we were about to take and he looks and he says, "Where's Michael?" And he wasn't there yet. He said, "No, we wait for Michael."
24:31He had his pants undone already.
24:33[laughter] The whole wedding, the young kids are there. He mooned because it was I forgot how many you have to be the moon the one that moons the most people or something like that. And he did. He mooned that the whole cast was dead. Little kids, ring bearers, everybody.
24:48>> Could you imagine doing that today?
24:50>> He'd be he'd be in prison.
24:52>> Oh [laughter] yeah.
24:53>> He'd be in prison.
24:55>> And I mean, and his ass was nothing to look at. Believe me. Oh my god.
24:59>> I can I can imagine that wasn't a sight to behold.
25:02>> Did you ever party with him?
25:04>> Oh yeah, sure.
25:06>> Where do you take him to some places?
25:07>> No, we That's why he stood at the al.
25:10It's the monkey bar. He loved the monkey bar. Wait, that's where is that the same monkey bar I'm thinking of?
25:17>> Yes, it's the only monkey bar in New York.
25:20It's between uh Madison and Park >> on what street >> on 45th, I want to say.
25:26>> That's this [ __ ] I think I I had an event there like five, six years ago.
25:30That's a good bar.
25:32>> Great bar. Great bar. Well, he was staying there all the time. I mean, I'll tell you a little history about where we are here.
25:38>> You know when Yeah. You know when they did on the waterfront?
25:42>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was right over here.
25:43>> They shot it here cuz they wanted the New York skyline.
25:47>> Yeah. Four blocks from here, literally.
25:49>> Okay.
25:50You know who was tending bar? The bar he was in every night while he was waiting to shoot.
25:56>> This would be in like 52, something like that.
26:01Is it a big name, I assume?
26:03>> Dolly Sinatra. Frank's mother.
26:06>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
26:07>> Frank's mother.
26:08>> There's Frank right behind you on the wall.
26:10>> He couldn't believe it. He was saying like cuz he loved Frank obviously and and she do you ever get to meet her at all?
26:18>> No.
26:19>> Know anything about her?
26:20>> No.
26:20>> She was like a truck driver.
26:22>> Yeah.
26:23>> Hey, an [ __ ] Get the [ __ ] over.
26:25[laughter] That's how she talked. And he wanted me Frank wanted me to marry his daughter Tina.
26:33Tina is the oldest daughter.
26:34>> How did you know Frank?
26:36>> I Oh man. Frank Sinatra. When you hear this story, you won't believe.
26:42>> Try me.
26:42>> I'm in a polio.
26:43>> I've heard something today.
26:44>> I'm in a polio ward. Nothing's happening. No TV, nothing. You're staring at ceilings.
26:51Dolores Baron. I was getting depressed.
26:54I got there August 9th. [snorts] My birthday was coming December 12th. The night before my birthday, she brought me a transistor radio. Carloino sent me a transistor radio for my birthday.
27:08He said a fellow >> Oh, yeah. Because your family went way back with him.
27:11>> Exactly.
27:12>> And my uncle in in Sicily, >> right?
27:16>> My [snorts] uncle was hung in 1948 when they were cleaning up Kosanostra.
27:21>> Wait, in 48?
27:23>> Yeah, they were climbing.
27:24>> I thought they were more like That was post World War II when Khalini helped them get across the island. They were still >> That was What's the name? That was uh um Veto Genevves. No, but the the the tough guys.
27:40Do you ever hear a guy called Gorapa?
27:42He he just died. I I was a 98 years old.
27:46He was when he died.
27:48>> Maybe, but it's not ringing a bell right now.
27:50>> Well, you know, Graa is the tough the strongest liquor there is.
27:54>> Yes.
27:54>> Do you know why he got the name?
27:57>> I assume somehow he ended someone's life.
28:00>> No, you won't believe this. As a teenager when they were doing all this cleaning up, they handcuffed him to a light pole while they were running around. Captain >> like a lampost. You mean >> a lampost scene?
28:14>> Yeah.
28:15>> They handcuffed him to him when they came back.
28:18>> The lampost is gone.
28:19>> No, he cut off his own arm at the elbow and his arm was still in the thing >> to get out of handcuffs.
28:31He cut off arm cut his own arm because everybody had knives then. But he cut off his own arm and then snapped it.
28:37>> What were they arresting him for?
28:40>> They were cleaning up. He was going to go away. Then he [snorts] went into hiding forever. He just died. He was the world boss.
28:48>> Wait, he was a zip.
28:49>> He was the He was the boss of bosses >> over there.
28:51>> Yeah. Oh, he never came here.
28:52>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
28:53>> Oh, he never came here. No.
28:54>> All right. Whoa. But your uncle was your uncle that got hung in 48. Yeah.
29:00>> So, they were doing some I didn't know about that. I thought they were more powerful than ever at that point.
29:05>> They There was a regime they wanted that was >> I think they made a deal to be honest with you. They gave up some of the people that wanted to get rid of him.
29:14>> Got it. Cuz I was going to say like Mussolini obviously went in and was cleaning house when he got in. Yeah.
29:20>> That's why that was part of why Banano came over here >> and everything. Okay. Very interesting.
29:26>> But we we were talking about this with Sinatra. So Carlo Gambino sends you a transistor radio while you're in the hospital >> cuz I was getting depressed.
29:35She gives it to me night before December 11th. I turn the radio on 6:00 in the morning and everything's about Sonatra.
29:43Frank Sinatra this Frank Sinatra humble beginnings from Hobok and his father was Todd Shipyard and he's my birthday >> and he's telling me about this. He inspired me to get out of that freaking hospital because I was getting depressed.
29:59>> Wow, that's cool.
30:01>> And I figured if he could make it, I can make it. Spin forward four years later, I'm working for Castello. I get to the Copa Cabana. There's lines outside already.
30:12>> Oh wow.
30:13>> I go down the kitchen and he's doing a sound check.
30:18So he looks at me, he looks at Julie Bodell, like to say, who's this kid? And Julie Bodell says to him, "Oh no, that's Castello's boy. I felt six foot tall."
30:29So I sat down, listened to the sound check.
30:34They take a break. He puts a cigarette in his mouth. I walk over, light the cigarette. And I said, "Mr. Sinatra, you saved my life." He, "Yeah, how' they do that?" I said, "Well, I told him I had polio that the other and and Carlo Gambino sent me a transistor radio for my birthday.
30:52He says, "Who?" I said, "Carlo Gambino is Carlo Gambino gave you a trans."
30:57Yeah.
30:59Okay. Tell me the story. So, and I said, I turned the radio on and you were doing six shows at the Parammont right up the block from me. I was in Belleview and you were up there up there. And I said, you gave me the inspiration to get out of there. He said, "That's amazing." He, "What's your name?" I said, "The kid."
31:17>> The [laughter] kid.
31:18>> He's the kid. He said, "No, what's your name?" I said, "I was told not to tell you that." He said, "Who told you that?"
31:25I said, "Frank Costello."
31:27He said, >> "Who the [ __ ] are [laughter] you?"
31:30>> That's He said, "Gampino gave you Transis Radio." Castello names you the kid. He maybe I should get to know you.
31:38You're more important than I. [laughter] And that's how we stayed friends. You know, he baptized my son Luchano.
31:43>> He baptized your son.
31:45>> Oh, I was I was close to Frank. And then when when they were nominate when they were trying to get uh JFK nominated, I was with them every weekend.
31:54>> Yeah.
31:55>> Because he babysat him.
31:57>> Now he and Yeah. He was really good friends with JFK. That's well known, >> right? Up until he got I was at the inaugural. They gave a a ticket for Castello to go out of respect.
32:10And he said, "You want to go?" I said, "I'll go." I [laughter] was 18. I'm sitting like fourth row. I'm watching there was four presidents Eisenhower, Nixon, they all there >> and he was there and Linda Vain Johnson [snorts] >> and we I go to all the balls. Frank Sinatra produced all their inaugural balls that time >> had every major star in the world that backed them. They all wanted to be there. I have the last photograph I got to send it to you of Sinatra and JFK together. And he already changed his house. He had he was getting ready to have him come visit him and all that and that's when he went and stood with Bob
32:50Hope.
32:51>> JF uh Bobby said, "You can't see him no more. You got to get rid. That's when they get you know we're Maryland."
32:58>> I was going to say, "Weren't Frank and JFK both with Marilyn?"
33:03>> Yeah. Everybody was though.
33:05>> Yeah, it's true.
33:06>> Everybody. Unfortunately, every actor I made a movie with when they found out I was with her. There was one way if you were with her, you knew you were with her.
33:15>> The scar.
33:16>> Yep. She had that scar.
33:18>> It was where? It was like where her >> right up right in her groin area.
33:22>> Who told you about that scar?
33:23>> I heard you talk about that once.
33:25>> Oh, okay. Yeah, >> I remember that. That was the identifier.
33:28>> That's how they asked you. You know, Brando, he said, "I heard you were in Brown." He said, "Well, I said, uh, how would I know you were with her?" I said, "I know." Even Tony Curtis, we were doing cuz, you know, she she had such low esteem. It was terrible. You know, she was in an orphanage. That's how her and I hit it off.
33:49>> Can you tell this story? I know you've told it before on many podcasts, but for people listening who haven't heard it before, can you tell your your history with her? She's It's crazy because she's been in that picture of her over there has been in both studios since the beginning. It's like my favorite thing in here, but it's kind of wild to be with someone who knew her a little bit.
34:05>> No. Well, I got to know her by accident because, you know, I they caught me as a I was doing all the errands and part of my route was, you know, uh I went to, you know, Copa every night, to Shores was like my place. And then Dempsey's, you know, >> Jack Dempsey's.
34:28>> Jack Dempsey's.
34:28>> That's where they film where Michael gets picked up.
34:31>> Yep. Yep. Yeah.
34:32Well, they had, you know, all the all the bookmakers and the bartenders were taking numbers and doing whatever. And I pick them up, bring them to New Motel.
34:40That was part of my duty.
34:43So I I come out of there and a TR officer comes up to me. He had a brown uniform on him. Say, "Who's this guy?"
34:50He, "Why aren't you in school?" I said, "School?"
34:54>> I was like 15.
34:55>> To school?
34:56>> I was 15. You know, I had I was wearing broni already. He says, "How old are you?" I said, "I'm 15." He said, "You got to be in school till you're 16." He gives me a ticket. I'm saying, "This guy not so >> and you haven't talked to your parents like at all." No, you're not even with them.
35:11>> So, he gives me the ticket and I walk into to he what are you doing with a ticket? You walking too fast. A joke. I didn't even get it. He gets the ticket.
35:20He reads it. He says, "This a trance ticket. How old are you?" I said, "I'm 15." He said, "You got to go to school till you're 16." He said, "I'll take care of it." So, I paid no attention to it. Next morning, I go see him at the at the Waldoff. He said, "I took care of that thing. Tomorrow, when you go to Dempsey's 9:00, go upstairs. Wilford Academy is up there, the hairdressing school." I said, "I ain't no folk. I don't want to be a hairdresser. [laughter] You crazy. I want to do what I'm doing."
35:54He said, "No, no, just check it and walk out."
35:57>> So now >> I see why you have great hair now.
36:00>> What?
36:00>> I see why you have great hair now. You know what you're doing. You're a pro.
36:03[laughter] >> No. So [snorts] I go there and he said, "Where where did you just come from?"
36:09Cuz I had to meet him at 11. I said, "I was at the school." He said, "You don't have to go. Just sign and leave." He said, I said, "Frank, where do you find 30, 40 girls nine o'clock in the morning?" I stay there.
36:21have my coffee for him. I even was taking him to the coper [laughter] like a king.
36:27>> That's awesome.
36:28>> But then but fortunately me staying there, I met Mark Sinclair and Kenneth.
36:35Kenneth was already Jackie Kennedy's hairdresser. Well, >> she used to come in all the time. And Mark Sinclair was a colorist for Clare or major colorist. But they were partners already. I thought they were partners. They owned the shop together.
36:52I didn't know they were lovers.
36:53>> Is this back when she's still Jackie Bouvet or Bouvier or whatever?
36:58>> Yeah.
36:58>> Right. Right. Surely because she didn't get married to him until like 53, I think.
37:01>> Right.
37:02>> So now I'm, you know, they're looking for shampoo boys. So I'm lined up, you know, and they see me, they figure, you know, they got they have my way with me. I said, "Yeah, hello."
37:18And the teacher told me if they pick you as a shampoo boy, you don't have to come to here, it counts as your, you know, credits, but you can make tips. And I saw all the cars and limousines there, and I didn't need the tips, but I saw the ladies.
37:35The fourth head was Marilyn Monroe.
37:38>> She just comes in there.
37:39>> She goes there all the time, Lily Des.
37:42Because she was hiding out here, you know.
37:44>> She had great hair, too.
37:46>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was pretty good.
37:47>> But she was here. Castello put her in the Waldorf for a year >> to get Yeah. Yeah. Frank loved her.
37:56>> Yeah. Why did he put her in What do you mean he put her in the Waldorf for a year?
37:59>> Because she lived in California. She wanted to get away from the Xanax.
38:03>> Oh. Like >> cuz she they were they were prostituting her as a sex symbol. She wanted to be a thespian. She was studying with Strawber to be an actress.
38:13>> Yeah. Yeah. She was she was brilliant.
38:16very talented.
38:16>> So now she was there. So now I'm shampooing her hair and I can't believe it. I don't even how long I'm looking at her. She's facing the ceiling. She said, "Is somebody in here?" I said, "Excuse me. I'm sorry." I go over. I have the card, you know, the shampoo, the hard shampoo, and I'm doing to touch the water. They teach me is that approves it. I start massaging her hair and she's moaning and she's in a kimona.
38:43I'm 15 years old. I get annoyed. Yeah, you're right.
38:46>> Well, my three piece [laughter] sets on my threepiece sets on her shoulder. I must have been poking her in the ear.
38:53[snorts] [laughter] >> Then she started requesting me [sighs] >> and Costello used to meet Aardo to go deep sea fishing.
39:04>> Tony Aardo >> in Chicago.
39:07>> Come on. The two bosses are going deep sea fishing together.
39:11>> That's like putting the president and the vice president on the same plane.
39:14That seems a little dangerous to me. A little accident, you know, all mobs flipped over.
39:19>> No, [laughter] no. But so he said to me that Friday, there's somebody staying upstairs. Check in on them, but don't go up till after 12:00 >> at the Waldorf.
39:30>> At the Waldorf. I go up, it's her. She opens the door. She said, "Johnny, what are you doing here?" I said, "Well, Mr.
39:37C told me to check in on you.
39:39>> You're not even 16 yet, right?"
39:41>> Yeah. [snorts] She said, "Come on in. I just ordered room service." I never saw room service, carts and food and all this and you know, and she's got her Terry Claude robot.
39:55She said, "Have breakfast." I said, "I already had breakfast." "Well, have a glass of champagne." I said, "I can't have champagne. I'm a kid." She said, "You can have anything you want in this room." [laughter] I said, "I'm one glass, two glasses." She said, "I'm going to take a bath." I said, "I'll go downstairs. Just call the front desk, ask for the kid they know." She said, "No, no. Come with me." Shakes by the hand.
40:18Turns the water on and she says that the vanity should brush out my hair. Well, I've done that a hundred times after the shampoo.
40:27So, I'm brushing out the hair.
40:30She gets up, takes me by the hand, goes to the tub, shuts off the water, and drops her robe.
40:37>> Now, you're I mean, you're excited at this point. up here.
40:40>> Yeah.
40:41>> She take off your clothes, get in the tub with me. I said, "You're going to get me killed." She said, "Who's going to know?"
40:48And I said, "You know what? [laughter] >> [ __ ] it. Let's do it."
40:54>> This was Saturday afternoon. I left Monday.
40:57>> Oh, wow. You had a weekend in Maryland.
40:59>> Hello.
40:59>> There you go.
41:00>> So now I got to meet Castello at 11:00.
41:03I time it right. Get there, walk in. He said, "What the hell happened to you? Do you sleep at all?" I said, "No, I I I can't even I wouldn't never lie to her."
41:11[laughter] I said, "If I tell you, you ain't going to believe me." So, I just sat down. We started our business. And that's how it all started. And then anytime she was in, I'd meet her. She'd call me, she'd put a disguise on, go to Subway Bar. Go out the back door, walk up, or I'd meet her sometimes. And then when she was studying with Strawburg, the studio was on 15th Street.
41:36>> Mhm. right off of Park Avenue. I'd go and meet her there. It was at like 11 o'clock and then we'd go and do what we had to do. But >> and she died in what, like 60.
41:47>> She died that I'll tell you this one.
41:49>> Can we Can we look that up? 60 something.
41:52>> She was in Calva.
41:54>> Keep the pull the mic in a little bit.
41:56You're good.
41:56>> She was at Calva. I was sent to go listen to what was going on.
42:02He said, "Uh, go to Kalva."
42:06And that's for you audience don't know, Calva was a gaming on in Lake Tahoe on the California border. So, you can come in on California and go in.
42:18So, they had Mal Monroe. I think there's pictures in the book of me and her and uh and Sinatra sitting poolside.
42:27And um what happened was that they brought her up there cuz she was she was John gave her to Bobby cuz Bobby said you got to stay away from Maryland for the first couple of years. You're a Catholic president.
42:45And with that said, they were going to try to hook her up with Bobby. So they had a room set up.
42:54This is This is Sam Jean Kelly >> for like for like blackmail.
42:58>> Exactly. Like they did with Jay Gova.
43:00>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
43:01>> Because Jay Goa was a crossdresser.
43:02>> Right. Right. Right.
43:04>> So unbeknownst to us, we don't know this. Now sun's setting. Sonatra is telling them what they want her to do.
43:11She goes crazy.
43:13I'm not having nothing to do with these Kennedys. They're this. They're that.
43:18>> And she she's com she's been divorced.
43:21Was she married to Joe Deaggio or that was already gone? She was Miller was already done. She just did the misfits.
43:29>> Got it. Okay.
43:31>> She starts screaming.
43:33She just had an abortion of Bobb's kid. All she ever wanted was a kid.
43:41I'm going to the press. I'm going to disclose these these Catholics and this that and the other.
43:46>> Bobby, not John.
43:48>> Bobby, not John. She stopped doing John because she said the old calf now she wanted the young bull.
43:53>> Yeah. Yeah.
43:55So now I come back to New York.
43:58He tell me what happened. He said they're going to kill her.
44:03That was [clears throat] the last weekend in July. They killed her August 4th, 19 two year. 61.
44:11When did you pull it up?
44:12>> 62.
44:13>> 62.
44:13>> 62. Yep.
44:15>> Whoa.
44:17>> Yep. Now, [snorts] there's a lot of people who take wild conspiracies on her death.
44:24I It does seem like she was probably killed. I think people take that to >> Bobby. It's in my book. I put it in there. My My publishers, people that don't know the publishing world, they vet everything because they got the deep pockets. They're going to get sued. I wrote this book three years ago and said Bobby Kilda.
44:44Bobby at the time was denying even being in California. There's no way an attorney general could be in California and nobody knows about it. So I went to share a booker and sure enough Peter Lofford got a ticket that night on Sunset Boulevard and they looked in the car >> like the singer Peter Loford.
45:03>> Peter Lofford was his brother-in-law.
45:06Peter Loford married a Kennedy.
45:10>> Really?
45:10>> You didn't know that? [laughter] I I remember that.
45:13>> Yeah.
45:13>> Interesting. Okay.
45:14>> So that's why he was always around. So now, not only did they put Robert Kennedy in California, they put her in the house for 4 hours before they called the ENTs.
45:30Now the ENT came close came together with it. You got to get this guy Mark Shaw on the show.
45:35>> Yeah, that was the guy you were talking about earlier. Okay. This guy has is he's opening her files again.
45:41>> Whoa.
45:43Yeah, she was.
45:46>> I mean, read some of his books. He's he'd been well acclaimed. Mark Shaw.
45:50>> Yeah. I I've always seen some They're very I want to be clear, they're very very different and very different settings. But there's I don't know why I do this. Maybe it's like who they were like as a social s as like a social symbol and stuff like that, but there's some odd little parallels I always play in my head with like Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana, >> you know, because they met they met an early brutal end. There's questions.
46:20>> Well, Princess Diana, you know, obviously they said she was pregnant and the queen was not going to let that happen.
46:25>> Yeah, that one's sketchy.
46:29>> Oh. Oh, okay. All right. We're going to stop real quick. Bathroom break. We'll be right back.
46:35>> All right. We're back. So, we left off with with Peter Laughford the ticket and Bobby, you said Bobby was up there and and you're alleging you alleged in the book that Bobby was the one who had her taken out, which is definitely a controversial take, but they >> No, it's uh it believe me, it's it's more and more now coming out. In fact, there's there's more tapes on it now because there's they did a Netflix 4-hour thing on Marilyn.
47:02>> Yes, they did.
47:03>> And they played her >> and they put Bobby in it. They put Bobby was in in her apartment >> for 4 hours before the paramedic took her out.
47:15>> He was physically there >> physically in the apartment for 4 hours.
47:22Now the stuff is all coming out now.
47:26You know, I always wonder when you look at power, you look at talent, the these different things that get you places in society, right?
47:39>> Think about like a dynasty like the Kennedys and all the tragedy that's happened to them.
47:45>> I know. I always wonder about the world and the way it it has a very mean way of balancing out if there's like a price you pay for, you know, not to oversimplify, but maybe the things you do or the things that your power has you do. You ever think about that?
48:04>> Well, you know what? Well, I I've thought about it a lot because, you know, these kids are so privileged.
48:09>> Yeah.
48:10>> And then but they use it in the wrong way. I mean, look at I mean, even Ted Kennedy.
48:16>> Yeah.
48:16>> I mean, there were so many >> Is that it?
48:19>> Yeah.
48:19>> Yeah. Yeah.
48:20>> There was so many unjustifiable homicides. So many things that were not proven because of their power. They sweep it under the rug.
48:28>> Yeah. And now you have one running for president again. It's like, >> but that I can't believe I heard him. I had to hear this. So, I had somebody send me their YouTube thing where he said, quote him, "His father woke him up one night to let him know that the CIA killed your uncle." Now, if you do the math, he was 9 years old. Why would his father wake up a nine-year-old son to say, "I just want you to know the CIA killed your uncle." If that's true and he was nine when that actual conversation happened, I agree that sounds suspect. I do wonder though, like some of these people are so disconnected
49:16from reality. I could see the lack of a filter system to, you know, why would you tell your nine-year-old that? That's a that's the right reaction. But I could totally see his dad being like, "Yo, the CIA killed your uncle. Welcome to the family, kid."
49:30Like, you know, they don't think like you and me. They don't think, you know what I mean? No, but he he said his father woke him up.
49:38>> Yeah.
49:38>> I mean, he's not passing at the table and we're talking about it and he came up.
49:43>> He went deliberately to your bedroom. I told you this.
49:46>> Was he drunk?
49:48>> Who?
49:48>> That's That's a That's an important question. Was his dad >> drunk? I don't know that. No, I didn't.
49:54Specifics. I could >> I mean, that is I agree with you. That's crazy. Yeah.
49:57>> But >> I mean, who knows? I I I would love to be a fly on the wall in some of those houses sometimes just to see what it's really like. Well, I know Joe is totally insane.
50:07>> Did the father.
50:08>> Yeah, >> I heard stories from Frank telling me about it.
50:11>> You know, there's a biographer, I forget his name, Allessie. Maybe you can look it up. I think I hope I have this right. I think he was given permission to do a biography of the Kennedy family, which creates bias, right? who tried to say that Joe had nothing to do with prohibition and was not in it at all. And that's the exact that was my reaction too. I was like, get the [ __ ] out of here. Joe was running was running hooch from Scotland through Canada all the way down the coast.
50:42>> Forget about it.
50:43>> Known fact.
50:45>> And and I think it was more money than that. Frank Costust told me he made 30 million, 50 million like that. And then that's when he bought so much property because you know Castello always wanted to be a legitimate guy.
50:59>> Yeah. Yeah.
51:00>> So he went into real estate to try to have that image and he bought what he owns in Wall Street. You can't believe still to today.
51:12>> What? Like it like the buildings?
51:13>> Buildings?
51:14>> Yeah.
51:14>> He still owns them.
51:15>> Yeah.
51:17>> My my building is like 60 units. His partners in my building where I live.
51:22Well, his estate like his family.
51:24>> Yeah.
51:25>> Franklin. See what? No, he always used George Wolf. George Wolf was his his lawyer.
51:30>> It was his license 1943.
51:33>> So they created all these trust and >> Got it. Got it.
51:37>> It was not in his name.
51:39>> Did he ever talk about Lucky Luciano >> with you?
51:42>> Never. Cuz they were tight.
51:44>> Oh, no kidding.
51:45>> They were really tight. No, but see my relationship with him and he was he was actually grewing me to do what I was going to do >> like >> like get the money, do this, do that, do this and but wanted me clean. He didn't he did not want me associated with anybody and that's why he want nobody know my name. You know, most people didn't know my name until the godfather came. [laughter] They always call me the kid. Hey kid.
52:16Yeah, kid.
52:17>> The thing is when you're telling this about for people at home as my little mafia historian nerd ass follows some of this stuff.
52:26Frank Costello would be the guy that would be like this cuz he you're 100% right. He really looked at >> he tried to tone down what the mafia did. He wanted to be known. It's exactly like you say. He wanted to be known as a legitimate businessman. So it would make sense that you being the kid being around him, he'd be trying to groom you to not be in that. Similarly, this was part of the part of the calculation when at least from what I've heard, maybe you can correct this with Veto Corleó, is that the character was kind of a combination of Banano, Costello, and Gambino. And both Banano and Costello
53:08were known for trying to go legitimate and particularly with Banano.
53:12>> Bill, Bill was educated, >> right? He wanted his son to not be in it. And then >> like Michael, he came in >> very the situation. I mean, and I know it to be true just because of the time I spent with all these people, you know, there was that's why like we said, did he ever talk to me? No.
53:33He only talked to me to what we wanted me to do. I'd meet him every day and then when there was other things going on, somebody else would tell me like Carmine from the Copa, those guys would say, "Go here, go there or all that was not handled by him."
53:51And another thing always impressed me, he went home every night for dinner and came back out and was home again by 10:00 10:30. Never stayed out late.
54:04And he owned the Copa Cabana. He had to go to first shows, never second shows.
54:09>> That's some good discipline right there.
54:10>> Oh no.
54:12>> The co the copa seems like that just comes up at the middle of every mob story. That was the spot. Oh, it was I remember I mean to me having people carrying their tables over their heads getting in the middle of the night bringing people in ringside. I was I was privy because of being at the Copa. I was there the night Sammy Davis Jr. was being heckled by this bowling team in Brooklyn.
54:41>> A bowling team in Brooklyn >> was sitting wingside heckling him. go dance, do a do that.
54:49And the New York Yankees cleared the place.
54:55They beat up everybody in the Giant.
54:57>> The Yankees like Deaggio and them.
55:00>> The Yankees. [laughter] You got to look look that up. That's I mean, you won't believe who some of them were.
55:06>> Yankees, Copa Cabana, >> major major players.
55:10>> Sammy Davis Jr.
55:12>> And he swept it under the rug.
55:14>> Whoa. He got it swept under the rug.
55:16Nobody got charged. Nobody. And they they destroyed >> these guys from Brooklyn.
55:22>> This is the 1957 brawl.
55:24>> Yeah.
55:25>> Yeah.
55:26>> 1957.
55:27This is in an article. The Yankees 1957 brawl at the Copa Cabana. Every Friday I've been releas Oh, wait. Hold on. On this week's I talked about the eventful Billy Martin. Go down. The Bronx. Go down. Go down. Go down.
55:42The Rat Pack versus the Bowlers.
55:45>> After a World Series loss in 55 and win in 56, the Yankees got off a slow start in 57. Weiss had been campaigning behind the scenes to trade Martin. Bah. The incident that spelled the end for Billy happened when the gang and their wives were out celebrating his 29th birthday in May. After a boozefilled dinner, they went to see Sammy Davis Jr. at the Copa Cabana nightclub.
56:08>> Hello. a spot Yankees players frequented in the 50s. They encountered a bunch of bowlers who were heckling wow heckling Sammy Davis and the Yankees players were pissed. There were numerous versions of what actually happened, but here's what I've pieced together. Billy told the guys to stop it or they'll have to quote step outside unquote. They actually ended up going downstairs where they brawled. One of the bowlers, a Bronx deli owner, you can't make this [ __ ] up, ended up with a concussion and a broken jaw. Some people thought Martin punched the guy, but it was most likely Hank Bower, and that's who the eventual
56:41lawsuit was brought against. Bower denied ever punching the guy, and the Yankees players never said who actually hit him. Go down a little bit.
56:50>> This article, >> do we? Yeah, there. Wow. There's a Daily News There's a screenshot of a Daily News article. So, they I They kept this enough under wraps that obviously people You're right. people didn't get in trouble for it, but that's crazy.
57:01>> Castella had a little >> Of course he did. They called him up and said, "We have a problem here." He said, "Save it to the morning."
57:10>> When did Vinnie the Chin try to hit him?
57:13>> That was a joke.
57:14>> Do you remember what year it was?
57:15>> Well, I mean, he actually did take one.
57:16>> 54, I think, wasn't it? 54.
57:18>> Sounds right. Is somewhere in there.
57:20>> 54. I saw him the next day.
57:23>> Yeah. He had like the bandage around his head or something. I don't know if we have a picture of Frank Costello with bandage around his head. You can probably Google that.
57:30>> You know, I I think about that. How does a guy get in an elevator with you and can't shoot you in the head? [laughter] >> Bad shot. I don't know.
57:38>> Well, no, but three weeks later, I met Chenham >> with him.
57:44>> With him.
57:44>> Now, this was the thing where he went in and said, "Didn't see the guy or whatever." Like, you refused to turn in who it was.
57:49>> Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't I didn't remember him. I didn't see him.
57:53>> Now, why didn't Why didn't he whack Vinnie the chin?
57:57>> Why would he? He would never. That's not who he is, man.
58:01No, >> he'd handle it himself.
58:03>> Wow.
58:04>> No, no, these guys.
58:06>> Because at this time, the other guys weren't like that.
58:08>> Oh, no.
58:09>> They they would have handled that a different way.
58:11>> For sure.
58:12>> Oh, there he is.
58:13>> Yeah. Yeah. We'll put that picture in the corner cuz Vinnie the Chin obviously ended up being a boss of >> Genevie's family.
58:19>> Yep.
58:20>> Yeah. With the bathroes outside and everything.
58:22>> Oh, that the whole thing with the brother, the priest and all that.
58:25>> That was crazy, man.
58:28Do you I in in the years after The Godfather though, so the movie, we didn't talk about this. The the movie comes out in 72 and it's it's an instant hit and within I mean I wasn't alive but from what I've heard within a year people are like this is the best movie ever made, >> right?
58:45>> Were you getting recognized everywhere you went?
58:47>> Oh my god. Yeah.
58:49>> Even now, even more, you know, it's funnier now how many people know me. I constantly hear, "Hey, Carlo. Ko, you know, [laughter] not my name. Ko.
58:59>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
59:00>> No, it's it's uh I mean I again we I said it earlier. I don't know if I didn't do that movie what I'd be doing.
59:08>> Yeah.
59:09>> I probably, you know, I mean I always made money. That's one thing you know and and I live modestly. I don't gamble.
59:16I don't do drugs. I don't do you know I'm I'm in business. I love business.
59:21>> You like jewelry and business. That's it.
59:23>> That's it.
59:24>> That's that's a good love of life. But did did the you had said obviously when you were on set you kind of kept to yourself a little bit with Brando and everything, but over the years did the as the anniversaries were coming up and stuff, did the did the cast get really tighter and bonded through this?
59:42>> No, not really.
59:43>> No. You know, they were all so big. I mean, look now, they're all nominated against constantly.
59:52>> Yes.
59:53>> And then Jimmy's dad. I mean, I was shocked when the New York Post called me when Jimmy Khan died.
60:00>> That was recently. That was like last year, right?
60:02>> And they said, "We want you to utilize him." Are you kidding me? They said, "No." I said, "I don't like the guy."
60:09[laughter] They said, "We want your take on it.
60:13It's a It's They printed it.
60:15>> They printed you saying I [laughter] don't like No, they printed everything I said about him."
60:20>> What' you say about him?
60:20>> Well, I'm just stupid stuff like you know who he was. I mean, I got a lie glorified now cuz you're dead. Who cares?
60:27>> Wow.
60:28>> No, I'm I I am I am who I am. I'm This is This is it. It's There's no >> Yeah. Yeah. You definitely wear it on your sleeve for sure. Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.
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