So, you see Trump really desperate to get out of this war and the Iranians knew he was desperate to get out of this war and it's their civilization they were defending and their country they were defending and they didn't play around and they held out for a very good deal.
0:18Hey everybody, uh we have a a big deal today. We have big shot Glenn Greenwalds with us.
0:24He is a journalist, former constitutional lawyer. He won the Pulitzer Prize in 2014 for his reporting on The Intercept on government surveillance based on the Edward Snowden documents. Remember that? That was over 10 years ago.
0:40Wow.
0:41Uh he left The Intercept in 2020, launched his Rumble-based program System Update. That's over.
0:47The guy keeps moving through stuff. He's He's He shuttered uh He shuttered it.
0:52That show shuttered.
0:54This past February, that show has been shuttered.
0:57And now he's back to doing long-form journalism and commentary primarily on Substack. He also does a video show there, but it is a hideous set that he has.
1:07>> [laughter] >> Hideous. He also writes a regular column for the Brazilian newspaper uh I don't know how to pronounce that.
1:14Folha de S. Paulo, I guess.
1:18How do you say it, Glenn?
1:20>> Folha S. Paulo.
1:22>> Folha S. Paulo.
1:24Okay, Folha.
1:25>> Beautiful, Jimmy. Beautiful.
1:27>> [laughter] >> Uh Folha, which is like the Freedom of Information Act uh requests >> No, it's Folha, it's with an L. It means like leaf or sheet.
1:37>> Oh, okay.
1:39Uh let's just do a Portuguese lessons, like basic Portuguese. Oh, that's right.
1:43It's Portuguese in Brazil.
1:46Oh, that's right.
1:47I've been thinking of moving to Portugal cuz I've been thinking of moving out of this country.
1:52And >> Portugal is awesome.
1:54>> I've heard good things. I've heard good things. How can Yeah, what what's so great about Portugal? Tell me.
2:02>> Uh it's like you get all the benefits of being in the EU but without any of the You know, like it's not France or the UK or Spain or Germany. So, it's just like it's own little thing. It's a small country. It's beautiful on the water. Lisbon is an amazing city.
2:15There's all these like interior little places that are rural and beautiful.
2:20>> Oh, okay. Well, we should go. I've never been.
2:23I'm going to the Mediterranean in July.
2:25Maybe I'll swing by. We'll see what happens.
2:28>> [laughter] >> We swing by? Can you swing by Lisbon? I think so.
2:33All right, Glenn. Um I want to ask you uh do you have any thoughts? I know this There's so much news breaking. It's too much news to cover. It's so overwhelming stuff is happening.
2:46Um I wanted to first ask you you did this one of these jubilees, right? Where you sit down and you debate 50 people.
2:53>> Oh, yeah.
2:54>> And I've only seen clips of >> Surrounded. You're surrounded by them.
2:58>> Yeah.
2:59I haven't seen uh I know Dave Rubin felt that he he was threatened physically when he did his. Um did you feel threatened when you did yours? Did you Were you afraid for your Were you afraid for your safety?
3:11>> They're like a bunch of little twinks and like political junkie nerds. I mean, if you're threatened by that, you might as well never leave your house.
3:18>> [laughter] >> Also, you know what's funny? I I did I don't know First of all, Dave Rubin was probably the single worst humiliation that has ever existed in the history of that program, which is unsurprising given that I've long maintained he's the single dumbest person in all of media. And I don't mean that as an insult, just like a as an observation. I mean, I don't mean it as praise, obviously. But I just, you know, it's totally unsurprising. But I'll tell you something funny you may I did a little debriefing for my audience cuz it amazingly a huge number of people watch that who don't even watch many other
3:49things but who do watch that. They have a big audience.
3:52And I, before the Dave Rubin thing, was remarking on they have this like security protocol. Like they take you in, you don't really get to interact with the people that are there because they're concerned there's going to be physical confrontation either before or during or after. They have tons of security. The minute there's a pause, they take you back to the green room, they escort you back. I was remarking on how excessive the security was. And then Dave Rubin comes out and he's like, "I felt like I was going to be killed." And he had this like security guy who he calls my guy Joey. And he's like, "You
4:21know You know my guy Joey? My guy Joey told me that if they attack me, he was going to step in and protect me."
4:27And it's like, "What the is this neurosis?" Like And especially he had liberals. He didn't even have MAGA people. He just had like these little twinky liberals.
4:38>> Yeah, I thought you I thought you you know, those are the the snowflakes that he was debating. I thought they were Those are the twinks.
4:44>> like 20 hairy Sissens. And he was like, "Oh my god, I thought that they were going to kill me."
4:50>> [laughter] >> Uh Harry Sissen got me too. So he's been he's been off the radar lately.
4:58Um he he was getting him So he was dating several women at once and you can't do that.
5:03And still be in good standing by the way by the liberals.
5:06>> Do you remember that? No, not in in liberal circles. That's absolutely prohibited. You have to be a very good feminist ally, only do one at a time. Do you remember that time when Trump produced that AI video during the protest and for whatever reason they told him and like Trump flew over and dumped a huge bucket of actual right on Harry Sissen's head. [laughter] >> And people got upset but they get upset about everything. They Thank god for Trump they don't >> approve of that.
5:30Yeah, I don't approve of that.
5:32I watched it like a thousand times but I do not approve.
5:36>> [laughter] >> But I do have to say whenever Dave Rubin's name comes up on the show, I how how much this might surprise you but he is uh a fun fellow to hang out with. He's a lot of laughs.
5:49Yeah, I'm not kidding. I'm not saying that sarcastically. Um we always enjoyed his company.
5:52>> I don't know. I hung out with him a couple not hung out, but I had lunch with him a couple times and I did not find him the slightest bit interesting or amusing, but maybe we just didn't combine as well as you two did.
6:03>> No, it was it was it was bad.
6:04>> Did you have He does stand-up, by the way. Have you ever seen his stand-up?
6:07>> I have not. I have not. Kurt Kurt uh my my my co-host Kurt uh >> Kurt, who's a real stand-up comedian?
6:15>> Yeah, he vows that Dave was not a real stand-up comedian, but I I can't say either way. I've never seen him do stand-up comedy, but um No, he we he You know, I was back when I used to smoke pot. I haven't smoked pot for years now, so maybe that had something to do with it.
6:30>> [laughter] >> That explains it. Yeah, I mean, you can find humor in anything when you're when you're all high on pot.
6:35>> Yeah, okay.
6:36I just I just want to play a little clip of your of your >> I hear.
6:40>> of of your Jubilee and uh >> Okay.
6:43>> cuz I've only seen the clips that uh are like mind-numbing and uh I think this was one of them. Let's listen.
6:50>> My next round of claim is the Trump administration has been considerably more corrupt than the Biden administration. I don't think there's things that compare in the Biden administration to the level of personal corruption. And what I'm asking you is whether you >> think going after your political opponents >> you is whether you think You don't think Trump has gone after his political opponents as well. Uh he's tried to indict James Comey. He tried to let indict Letitia James, and even the grand jury sued them out. But I'm asking you about the examples that I listed. Do you think I've accurately described the
7:18personal corruption >> I'm saying even if I grant you your premise >> I want you to grant it. I want to know if you think I've accurately described it, cuz we're talking about billions of dollars in personal wealth.
7:28>> Jared Kushner created a vulture capital fund, an investment fund, in which the primary investors were the Saudis who invested $2 billion into Jared Kushner's personal fund. The Emirates have invested hundreds of billion of a of millions of dollars as well. Donald Trump, his sons, Steve Witkoff and his sons created a crypto company that the UAE has devoted hundreds of billions of dollars to and then bought a 49% stake share in. The Qataris have done the same. Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump just created a new drone company that they're now selling to the Pentagon and getting contracts from the Pentagon that
8:03will further personally enrich the Trump family. We're talking about a level billions and billions dollars in personal wealth that did not exist before Donald Trump entered the presidency that now exists in his family by virtue of these deals with the with the exact countries on which he wields the most influence.
8:19>> two points I want to make. Okay, so first off, right? Even let's say I grant all of that. Let's say I grant all of >> Because it's true.
8:26>> No, no, let's say I grant all of that.
8:27>> I'm going to grant it as if to prove your claim. I brought up a whole list of things that Biden has done that are corrupt.
8:32>> Did Biden's family make from this? Just But how much >> Can I make my second point? Sorry, my second point.
8:37>> Okay. Are American citizens not free to pursue business activities outside political office?
8:43>> not.
8:43>> Can Obama not pursue a Netflix deal? Can Obama not pursue book deals with >> Once he's out of office, yes, he can.
8:49Once he's out of Once he's served two terms and is out of office, this was This was This was happening.
8:54>> Yes, the World Financial Liberty company was created in the transition after he won the election and before he was inaugurated. Four days before he was inaugurated, he created that crypto company into which hundreds of billions of dollars of foreign money have flowed enriching the Trump family.
9:10>> Woah. So, I think they should They shouldn't call that Jubilee.
9:13>> how scared I was to me.
9:15>> You seem You seem very scared.
9:18>> [laughter] >> I think they should call that Can I finish? They should call it Jubilee. So, can I finish? Let me finish.
9:25So, what was your big So, I, you know, railed on the Biden administration for their corruption.
9:32Uh >> Me, too.
9:33>> Uh because it was real and it was there and he did lots of the things they accused Trump of doing first and uh he's including mishandling top secret documents. He kept them in a in his garage next to his Corvette.
9:47Um but uh what Trump is doing is uh again as Trump likes to say nobody can believe it. It's the it's phenomenal that this kind of corruption that nobody can believe it's happening. I'm doing it. It's most It's the biggest It's It's like on magnitudes of 10 times the corruption that that Biden did. And Biden was 100% criminal.
10:09No doubt about it. Uh it Are Are you Are you shocked that other people aren't shocked? And And why do you think the Democrats don't talk about his actual corruption?
10:18>> That's the thing that honestly I left most surprised about because the way Jubilee does this is it's not like they just get people off the street who are just random people off the street who don't know much about politics. They purposely recruit. These are mostly like influencers, YouTubers, you know, TikTokers, people who want to build an audience and who want to attract attention and they're mostly political junkies.
10:39And they were they came prepared with idiotic talking points on like the war and Israel and Iran, but at least they came with talking points as dumb as they were. When it came to these corruption issues, they had never heard of any of these things before. The issue about the the the Saudis investing in Jared Kushner's hedge fund or the Emiratis and Qataris pouring money into Trump's crypto company or the drone company or any of the other things that we just Listen, it wasn't like they came prepared to deny that this is corruption. And that's why that kid kept saying and they were all saying, "Okay,
11:11even if I grant this." And I was saying, "No, don't grant it. Tell me whether or not this is accurate, whether this is happening." And they were all ill-prepared to do so because the media they consume, I think like a lot of it is like Ben Shapiro and probably Fox News and just like pro-Trump, pro-Israel, quote-unquote independent media. They just don't include any of these stories in the discourse. And so they were completely ignorant of the fact that any of this was happening. And at the same time, the Democrats are so bad at talking about these issues, too, because their party is so filled with corruption as well,
11:47that it's very difficult for them to condemn it with any kind of a straight face. That what to me are some of the most important issues of the second Trump term, and some of the most disturbing, are things that most people just don't know about.
12:00>> So that's the thing. I The The Democrats obviously are not shy about using lawfare against Donald Trump. Except you know, what I said, it took him so long to impeach him the first time was because they had to find a crime that they weren't also complicit in. And so this kind of corruption that Trump is doing, they're kind of complicit in.
12:19They're all doing insider trading. We know that. Nancy Pelosi out per You know, she's she's a regular Bernie Madoff with as far as she's outperforming the market left and right all the time. So is that it? Is that Is that why we don't know about this corruption cuz they don't The Democrats don't make a stink about it because they're also guilty of the same types of corruption, just not on the scale.
12:41>> Right. Well, it's funny because one of the dumbest ones that was who who who was there, like one of the like genuinely dumb like Dave Rubin level dumb, he said something that at the time I thought was one of the dumbest things I ever heard. Actually, I thought about it afterwards when I saw these clips.
12:56I was like, you know, on some level, it's almost like so stupid that there's a level of there's a kind of component of truth to it. Which was, you know, when they were talking about Hunter Biden and Burisma in Ukraine, which I was really talking about and I spent a lot of time condemning and reporting on during the first, you know, during the Biden administration cuz I did think what Hunter Biden was doing in Ukraine and then in China with the with the documents on his laptop were corrupt. But the reality is is that the Trump kids and Trump himself are you know, you have to add two or for zeros
13:25to what the Bidens were doing in terms of the level of corruption, the amount of ill-gotten gains. And at one point, one of them said to me, "So, it seems like your real complaint is that Trump is just a better businessman."
13:36>> Yes.
13:36>> And at first I was like, "Idiot, we're not talking about profit. We're talking about thievery, like stealing, like corruption. And it's not a good thing to steal more." And then when I thought about it again, I thought, "You know, if the Democrats and Republicans are both going to just have a very corrupt political system, which of course we do, why wouldn't you want to almost consider it advisable to just do the same kind of corruption, but instead of making $50,000 a month, make, you know, $500,000 a month or $5 million a month?
14:05Like, what ethically there's really no difference."
14:09And as dumb as he was and as dumb as that point was, there was also an almost an element of truth to it, which is Trump's just doing the same thing the Democrats do, he's just doing it better, which is why they don't really have any standing to really object in any, you know, full-throated way.
14:24>> So, that's it it is is the is I mean, that bleeds into everything, right? That bleeds into why uh the Democrats are all of a sudden making a big show about the Epstein files because they had power for a long time and they didn't say a thing about it and then it's only until Trump became president that they care about it all of a sudden. It's Do you Do you see that bleeding over into Epstein, also?
14:52>> Well, yeah. I mean, into everything, as you said, you know, when I when when Trump first kind of emerged on the scene and then became president, you and I had similar trajectories, which is we had been vaguely more or less associated with kind of the left with the represented sort of by Bernie Sanders' 2016 campaign. That to me that was never fully representative of my politics, but more so than whatever else was available at the time.
15:16And my appeal, the appeal I found in it was that it was kind of an anti-establishment politics.
15:21And then once Trump won and the Democrats acted like Adolf Hitler had arrived, like this completely unrecognizable figure in the American political tradition, one of the reasons why I found that so repellent, that critique, was not because I also didn't find Trump disturbing in some ways, it was because to me Trump was never anything other than just a continuation of what had come before, kind of like a natural extension of it, and a byproduct of it, not some, you know, that's why they would go on for centuries to create this narrative that oh George Bush, even though we disagreed with him, was such an honorable man and
15:55so were the Cheneys, because they wanted to depict Donald Trump as this never-before-seen, unprecedented, you know, poison that was contaminating our otherwise noble body politic. And the reality was he wasn't really doing anything or saying anything that was worthy of criticism that was really all that meaningfully different than what had come before him. He was just a little bit more honest about it, a little more blunt about it.
16:18Compartmentally he was different, but the substance of it, I never saw Trump as this radical deviation or departure from American tradition. I saw him as a continuation of it. And I think that has been the main error in liberal discourse over the past decade is this pretense that somehow Trump is some unprecedented radical threat as opposed to, in my view, the natural byproduct of what happens when the establishment itself of both parties rightfully loses the trust and faith of of the public.
16:52>> And >> [clears throat] >> this this idea that yes, Donald Trump is singularly corrupt, it's very hard to convince people that yes, Trump is corrupt, but so are the Democrats. They just won't buy that. They just they they see and that's why you see these no kings rallies. Now, I had I had on, you know, Jeffrey Sachs, who I have the utmost respect for, um, but he was saying that he was glad to see the No Kings protest people standing up against a a dictator like presidency in Donald Trump. And you know, I I always make the case here that uh those No Kings uh protests are They're not protests.
17:35They're just rallies because if they were a protest, a protest always has a demand attached to it. And there there's zero demands attached to the No Kings rally. And that's how you know it's a psyop by the establishment to take that uh uh revolutionary energy uh that is real under Donald Trump and funnel it right back into the two-party duopoly. Would you agree with that?
17:59>> So, I'll give you an example of a real protest. And there are several of them, but I'll just give you an example of one.
18:04A real protest was the protest movement that erupted across American college campuses after October 7th in protest to the Israeli genocide in Gaza and to US financing of it. Why was that a real protest?
18:15Because there were demands attached to it that were very serious and we want you to stop funding and arming the Israeli war in Gaza and to stop funding and arming Israel in general.
18:26And also, it wasn't a protest designed to masquerade its real intentions pretending it was one thing, but in reality just being kind of a partisan protest to keep people within the two-party system. In fact, it eventually became a protest movement that rejected both parties and that probably played a pretty significant role in the 2024 election by having a lot of people who otherwise might have been inclined to vote for Joe Biden and then Kamala Harris refused to do so on the grounds that both parties were equally complicit in this moral crime that had crossed every line. There have been other protest movements that have been crushed
19:01like Occupy Wall Street and even early versions of the Tea Party before it was co-opted by the Republican Party. Some of the protest movements of the 1960s, those are real protest movements. And the way you know they're real protest movements is not just because they have attached demands to them, but also because they end up grabbing getting crushed by the state. And the thing that I hate so much about this No Kings protest is you know, I started writing about politics. I stopped practicing law and started writing about politics in 2005 largely in response to the civil liberties abuses of the Bush and Cheney
19:33administration ushered in in the name of the war on terror, which was accompanied by this whole litany of these very radical Article 2 theories about how basically the president is limitless in what he can do. Really monarch like creating the president as a monarch. Like these theories that Dick Cheney had been working on since the '70s.
19:53And those extended into the Obama administration. And these people who were at the No Kings rally are the same ones who are saying, "Oh, we have to hold hands with Dick Cheney and Liz Cheney because these are the real patriots even though we don't agree with them ideologically." Or who defended Obama when he was embracing these radical theories of presidential power. And so to watch them now suddenly find their voice about the limits of presidential power in the No Kings protest when in reality it's just masquerading as as this more noble thing that's really just a Democratic Party protest.
20:24It's just another fraud and there's nothing even interesting about it.
20:28>> And so how how um how do you respond because now everybody I know for 30 years in Hollywood calls me a Trumper because I told the truth about the Democratic Party and they some certain you get the same kind of flak.
20:44Um what what how do you handle that?
20:49>> I mean, you know, look, I I have been going through this for a long time, you know, and especially if you're somebody who has fixed principles, you know, like I people you have been debating for 20 years now. Like what is my ideology and which is my party and am I a leftist or am I a libertarian or am I a Maga or am I this, or am I that?
21:08Ultimately, the reason why that happens is because you don't attach yourself to a particular political party and enslave yourself to it. If you do that, like I'm a Democrat.
21:19Okay, that means everything that Trump does, or anything Republicans do, I'm against.
21:24And everything the Democrats do, I'm in favor. Like I recently heard Kyle Kulinski say, He said, the worst Democrat, whoever you think is the worst Democrat, is a thousand times better than the best Republican.
21:42So, you have Democrats who support what he claims to think is a genocide.
21:48You have Democrats who are pro-genocide.
21:50And then you have Republicans who are against the genocide. Like Marjorie Taylor Greene, or Thomas Massie, or whomever. Well, lots of Republican uh people who are conservative uh journalists and pundits as well. But, because he has fixated his identity in this very banal partisan Democrat versus Republican box, where the worst Democrat is infinitely better than even the best Republican, you end up on the one hand saying things that are completely incoherent, like, "I think there's a genocide, but I still think people who are in favor of the genocide are better than people opposed to the genocide." But, there's never any
22:26confusion about who he is. He's a Democrat. He's a liberal. He's a left He's a member of the left liberal wing of the Democratic Party. He's loyal to not only fixed ideas, like the popular position on genocide, but to the party.
22:38And so, there's no confusion. If, however, you define yourself differently, if you're not enslaved by or captive to a particular political party or politician, like, "I'm a Democrat. That means that whatever the Democrats do, I'm going to cheer. And whatever the Republicans do, there's always going to be a question, 'Wait a minute.
22:54He was against censorship or civil liberties or whatever you says when Bush did them.
23:00So, I thought he was a Democrat. I thought he was on the left, but then when Obama did that, he was criticizing Obama. But if you're criticizing Obama, that must mean that you're a Republican.
23:09And that's where all this confusion it where it comes from is just like a very simple-minded binary way of of looking at political values and and conflicts and an inability to see them through any more of a sophisticated or complex lens.
23:23And so, if you're somebody who thinks Russia gate was as I did since the beginning and I know you did, too, or who hated the Democrats liberal kind of support for the NATO war in Ukraine and pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into the coffers of Boeing and General Dynamics in order to fund and arm neo-Nazi battalions in Ukraine, or if you dislike the you know, kind of censorship industrial complex that emerged after 2016, these were all things that liberals were doing and you were criticizing liberals or diverging from their doctrine. And so, the the simple-minded people will say, "Oh, you
23:59must be MAGA. You must be pro-Trump."
24:01Because they don't have any fixed principles, so they can't understand other people who actually do.
24:07>> I was uh I was gobsmacked at someone's like Kyle Kulinski who was there with us on uh the Russia gate. He was there with us on the force the vote. And then he just like a lot of people just flipped all of a sudden and just became that thing you're describing, a partisan, which to me there's nothing more simple-minded than being a partisan. And I was shocked shocked by it. Uh especially from someone like uh Kyle Kulinski and now he's just a full-blown uh he's as as Aaron Maté calls it, blue MAGA.
24:43And uh W- what what do you Is Is it Is it it Is it because these people like that are just as shallow as they can possibly be and they do really don't have any principles?
24:58>> I mean, look, you know, if I'm going to be as generous as I can, I guess what I would say is that there probably are people who just by being immersed in left-wing political culture really did come to believe that Donald Trump is some never-before-seen wicked, you know, uh curse sent by Satan, and that the only thing that matters is stopping Donald Trump, and that means attaching yourself to the Democratic Party. Like, perhaps there's a genuine belief that that is the way to understand politics. Now, for all the reasons I said, I think that's unbelievably simplistic, and binary, and primitive, but it's
25:40possible that's genuinely how he sees the world, that like Donald Trump is the only thing that matters, stopping Donald Trump is the only thing that matters, and since the Democrats are opposed to Trump, automatically that makes Democrats better. I personally think things like genocide are unique evil, and so if there's a Republican who's opposed to it and a Democrat who's in favor of it, I'm obviously going to think the Republican, certainly in that extremely important instance and probably overall, is a better person.
26:05But if you don't think genocide is the worst thing, if you don't think destroying middle-class economic security or the security of the working class is the worst thing, you actually just think Donald Trump is the worst thing, then that's going to be your worldview. I should also say, and I know you know this, that I'm not suggesting this is what motivates him, but it certainly motivates a lot of people, and it could subconsciously motivate anybody.
26:28The easiest way to gain a large audience and to make a lot of money in independent media is to plant your flag in one of the two partisan camps.
26:39I'm MAGA, I'm a Democrat, or like, you know, I'm the from the Bernie AOC wing of the Democratic Party, and you'll get a big audience, you'll have a lot of people watching your program as he does, but they're all like-minded people.
26:52You're not actually You're not making an impact. You're not reaching anybody who doesn't already think the way you do.
26:57They're coming to get daily validation of their pre-existing views, and there are a lot of rewards in independent media for people who are willing to do that. That's in fact what most success is. And huge numbers of people have gotten very rich from Rachel Maddow and Heather Cox Richardson and those Lincoln Project scumbags on down to just adopting the most extremist anti-Trump view over the last decade. And that's not what motivates him, but he's certainly one of the people who has benefited greatly in a very material way from kind of adopting that very partisan way of of looking at the world. And I
27:29think those are corrupting incentives, even if you're not a corrupt person.
27:34Like, we're just human. Those We get that positive reinforcement, that daily dose of dopamine from people telling us what how great we are, from having our audience numbers increase, and we think we're doing something really important and big. And that can subconsciously affect how we claim that we understand the world.
27:52>> Yeah, I mean, I was told by you know, my liaison at I'm lucky enough to have at YouTube that yeah, if you know, you should pick if you picked a side, you would get better numbers and you would have a more successful channel. And I'm like, well, you know, that's not what we do. And he's like, yeah, I know that I'm just letting you know that's why other people get get more oomph in the algorithm. So, anyway, let's move on to the news of today.
28:19Trump admitted today the real reason why he ended the war. And it's what exactly what we've been saying here at the show is that Trump doesn't have any cards to play, that Iran actually has all the cards to play because we found out how important the Strait of Hormuz was and the fact that they can control it whenever they feel like it. So, here he is admitting it.
28:42>> I'm going to get impeached, I know that.
28:44Now, if I did the opposite, if I went out and continued to bomb them for another four, just bomb the hell out of them.
28:51I get bad press on that. No, there's nothing I can do. But what this does is it allows the ships to go.
28:58If we If we keep bombing, those ships won't be going. And you're talking about 500, 600, 700 million dollars a day.
29:07It's a lot of money. A lot of money.
29:09That's why the world is okay. It's liquid, it's fine. Also, we run out of reserves in about 4 weeks. And their reserves all over the world. And we would really run out. And there'll be a time when you wouldn't be able to get it. And you want to see bedlam? So, for all those so-called geniuses that want to show me how smart they are, ask them why didn't they blow up General Soleimani. Ask that of the general and couple of other people that I like very much, but boy, are they wrong. Go ahead.
29:37>> So, how about you?
29:39>> So, what >> to get bad press. I know that. Now, >> So, what he just admitted there was that Iran held all the cards and that the United States and other people are burning through their reserves of oil and even the oil company executives were going public saying, "Hey, if you think gas prices are high now, in a few weeks, they're going to spike even higher."
30:00Some people were saying $10 a gallon because they're burning through all the reserves of the oil that they had. And so, Trump was forced to make a deal with Iran that's very favorable to Iran. That's the real reason. And And And so, Trump just had Do you think they had no idea that this was going to happen?
30:22>> I mean, you you know, it First of all, it's not just their ability to close the Strait of Hormuz, which they did. And of course, once they closed it, the US then blockaded it entirely. So, there's been no oil running through. And their calculation there was by blockading it entirely, by not allowing Iran to pick and choose, "Okay, China can come through. They're paying us." We're going to choke off the Iranian economy and they're going to be able They're going to have to be forced to surrender because they're going to face economic collapse before they cause global economic collapse and we're forced to surrender,
30:52and they miscalculated. It's not just closing the Strait of Hormuz, but also the Iranians demonstrated from the American and Israeli perspective a very alarming ability to destroy the energy and gas infrastructure of what we call our Persian Gulf allies, which are Arab dictators that we're in bed with.
31:12These countries are not even little, you know, countries. They're tiny little I mean, I don't know if you've been been there, but like you go to Doha or to Dubai. These are not countries. These are tiny little gas stations, basically.
31:23And Iran demonstrated in a very restrained way their ability to take out Qatari infrastructure, Jordanian infrastructure, Kuwaiti infrastructure, Saudi infrastructure. And had they unleashed the full force of the Iranian military, which they could have and would have done had there been an escalation, you're talking about permanent damage to the global economy well beyond what even the Strait of Hormuz and the closing of it has provided. And the only reason you haven't seen oil prices really spike like to $150 a barrel or $250 a barrel is because as Trump said, they've been draining the reserves, the oil reserves
32:03that are all over the world. And those are running out. And the Iranians were not going to surrender. And so what once they got to that point, Trump was terrified of what he was about to unleash on the world, and he was basically forced I don't want to say into surrendering, but into a posture that is I can't think of a parallel at least in my lifetime where the United States started a war and then was forced to end it on such humiliating terms. Maybe Vietnam.
32:30Um you know, which wasn't really my lifetime, but I mean, you know, shortly before that you would have have to go back to Vietnam to have such a humiliating end to a war, and Trump's being very honest there, and I do think that's what happened.
32:41>> And uh I'm just glad that he finally you know woke up to reality, sobered up so to speak, and he realized that this is they don't have any hand, they have no cards, and that if they don't do this, it's going to be devastation economically, not just for the United States, but for the world. Iran knew this, he didn't. He's surrounded by Zionist neocon morons who don't care what happens to the United States because they're Israel first. So, they couldn't care less, they only care about Israel, and do you think he's now woken up to that fact that he can't put Israel first anymore?
33:22>> I think Trump knows that this war has been a gigantic failure, and that it's now hanging around his neck like an albatross, and Trump is not exactly a person known for accepting responsibility for his failures. He looks for other people to blame.
33:35And the reality is is that Benjamin Netanyahu came to Washington seven times in order to convince Trump to attack Iran. The very last time they met the situation room, where Trump didn't even sit at the head of the table, but Benjamin Netanyahu presented, with Mossad on the screen, a presentation to Iran to to Trump, convincing him that this would be like Venezuela, that all you have to do is go in and decapitate the Ayatollah, which they did on the first day, kill a bunch of their top generals and a couple of their nuclear scientists, and then the entire state would collapse, and then you just go in,
34:08appoint whoever you want, empower them, and they'll do your bidding like like the Venezuelan government is now like I've done doing in the United States.
34:16That did not happen, and it was very predictable that it would not happen because Iran is not Venezuela. Iran is a gigantic country with in intense and very valuable natural resources, and they've been preparing for this for the last, you know, 50 years. I mean, ever since the Iranian Revolution 1979, the United States and Europe and Israel have wanted that government gone and wanted to restore the tyranny the Shah the Shah's tyranny that was a puppet to the United States and to the to to European interests and to Israel. And they've been everything they do is about planning how not to let that happen. And
34:55this is a very Iranians are very smart they they're very highly educated country and they're very formidable and their geography gives them extreme advantages. So, once Trump realized that he was sold a con job by Netanyahu and the Mossad and whoever else was in his ear, probably Marco Rubio and a lot of these other advisers I Pete Hoekstra assuring him that this would be quick and fast and you go look at what Trump was saying at the beginning, telling the New York Times it's going to be two, three weeks, four weeks at the most. You know, bombing everybody this would be done within a a month or so and then when it
35:31wasn't and not only wasn't it, but the Iranians were showing they had far greater capability than anyone led Trump to believe that they had, I think he started looking around and getting angry at Israel and these neocons and these hawks who had led him into this war and instead of accepting responsibility he began to blame them. And that's why he's saying some remarkable things about Israel like hey, you know, they seem to not value any non-Jewish human life.
35:56They're like blowing up entire apartment buildings in Lebanon even though there's so many innocent people, we should probably let the al-Qaeda guy that we put in charge of Syria go do the job because he would be more careful and precise in his use of violence than the Israelis are. And then saying things like, yeah, of course the Iranians should be able to have ballistic missiles. Everybody has ballistic missiles. Why can't they have ballistic missiles?
36:17So, you see Trump really desperate to get out of this war and the Iranians knew he was desperate to get out of this war and it's their civilization they were defending and their country they were defending, and they didn't play around, and they held out for a very good deal.
36:34>> So, he said something else today. I don't I don't now I don't remember what this clip is. Let's play it, and we'll figure out what it is together.
36:43>> We've been pretty tough in that. You know, it's also it is a little hard though when you say that somebody wants it other people have it, other adjoining >> Okay, so this is him talking about enriched uranium for energy. Now, that was a That was one of the things they wanted to make sure they didn't have any enriched uranium, and they couldn't do that. And Iran is is demanding as a condition of this peace deal is that they get to use nuclear power for energy. And so, here he is going to say he's going to capitulate. He's going to admit that he's capitulating on that right here. Let's listen.
37:20>> pretty tough in that. You know, it's also it is a little hard though when you say that somebody wants it, other people have it, other adjoining states have it, and you're not letting them have it for purposes of electricity and things like that. So, it's always a little tough.
37:35You have to use a little common sense to please.
37:38>> So, there it is. I mean again, so Iran, another big win for Iran, another big loss for the Trump administration and their stated goals. There is they're going to they're going to be allowed to uh they're going to be be allowed to have enriched uranium.
37:56Uh go >> know, Jimmy, it feels like you know what it feels like? It feels like you're living this insane world where you live under a government that just is completely mad and and and and talking about the world in a completely unhinged way, and then suddenly for whatever reason you wake up and something breaks in the matrix, and the president who's leading this war based on these insane ideas suddenly just starts sounding so reasonable like he just like his eyes open, and he understands everything.
38:22Of course, the Iranians are entitled to have enriched uranium. There's this convention, this treaty that was signed called the nuclear non-proliferation treaty in the '70s, which was a response to the concern that every country was going to start to proliferate and and acquire nuclear weapons, which is an extremely unsafe world. And everybody was incentivized to create a framework where you would limit the number of states that had nuclear weapons. And the nuclear non-proliferation treaty was the convention, the global convention, that was created to do that. country except for India, Pakistan, South Sudan, and Israel are
38:56signatories to the deal. And the Iranians are signatories. And one of the things that it says was a condition for people signing was that the idea is that you can't get nuclear weapons, but nothing is ever going to infringe your right to use nuclear energy. So, you can enrich uranium.
39:14You can use the enriched uranium for nuclear energy, even if you're an oil-rich country. You may want to use nuclear energy because the more nuclear energy you use, the less oil you use, which means the more you can sell and generate revenue for your people and for your country. And so, the Iranians have the same right of enriched uranium as every other country in the world.
39:35And the Iran deal was so perfect from the American perspective because the Iranians agreed to things that no other country in the world agreed to, which is we're going to accept limits on our enriched uranium of 3.67%, which is the maximum you need for enriched for for energy. And in order to give you the confidence that we're abiding by that, we're going to allow very invasive inspections and surveillance regime to look at everything that we're doing inside our enrichment facilities so you know we're not enriching toward a nuclear weapon.
40:06And had that protocol just remained in place, none of this would have ever happened. But Miriam Adelson and Netanyahu and the whole crew got Trump to nullify that, to withdraw from it in 2017.
40:16And that went write back to a agreement that this time doesn't even provide those safeguards. That just has the Iranians promising that they won't get nuclear weapons. So, when Trump says, "Of course we can't ban the Iranians from enriching uranium for nuclear purposes." Just like in another clip, I don't know if you have it, but I referenced him earlier.
40:33The idea was, "Oh, we're going to also force them to destroy their ballistic capability."
40:38>> here it is. Let me play it for you.
40:40>> that. This is amazing also what he said.
40:42>> At the press conference you said you don't mind Iran having ballistic missiles. Can you elaborate on that? I don't I want to make sure we understand your position.
40:48>> No, I want it I'm saying that if other countries have them, it's a little bit unfair for them not to have some.
40:55A ballistic missile is not the same thing as what we're talking about what we talk nuclear.
41:00But if Saudi Arabia and Qatar and they all have some, I would say in relative proportion, I think it's okay. That's what I mean.
41:10>> There it is.
41:12>> But Jimmy, this is this is what I'm saying. It's I don't know for all the living in I feel like I'm dreaming and I'm going to wake up tomorrow and he's going to be back to be like, "This is an air state. We have to bomb the out of them and destroy their because this is so this has been the point all along.
41:26Ballistic missiles are conventional weapons.
41:29They that's what they use to bomb Israel when Israel attacks them. They're the deterrents that they use against Israeli aggression.
41:36Why is it in the interest of the United States to try and go to war to prevent Iran from having what every other country has, which are conventional ballistic missiles? They're not a threat to the United States. Maybe they're a threat to Israel, although they aren't really even a threat to Israel if Israel doesn't attack Iran.
41:51And then Trump suddenly wakes up and he's like, "Why would I go to war to demand that Iran not have ballistic missiles?
41:57Everybody has ballistic missiles." And he's like, "It's not fair to Iran." You know, we were talking about Iran as like the devil, you know, for the last like decade. And now suddenly he's like, "It's really not fair to Iran." And he's truly it's not fair to Iran. It's just shocking to hear it coming out of his mouth.
42:13>> Yeah, but you know, they they chant death to America. They they chant, Glenn. Can you believe they chant?
42:21>> That's scary. It's like it's like the it's like Dave Rubin in inside the Jubilee Circle.
42:27>> [laughter] >> And so of course Trump Now Trump is getting it from all sides, right? So even MSNBC, I just saw a clip of them criticizing uh Donald Trump this deal as it relates to Lebanon. Uh and then of course you have people like Ben Shapiro who wants to go uh completely bonkers and ramp up the war again. Let's listen.
42:51>> I'm noticing that Mohammad Halibab, who will apparently on Friday be literally in a photo op with the vice president of the United States. I cannot express to you how stomach-turning that is.
43:02I don't care who the vice president is.
43:04I don't care who the president is.
43:06Leaders of the United States of America in a photo op with a mass-murdering terrorist supporter like Mohammad Halibab shaking hands 6 months after he blew away 42,000 innocent people in the streets and weeks after he was his administration was firing missiles at literally all of our allies in the region and continues to support every terrorist group in the region and is currently continuing to control the strait.
43:33Like right now.
43:35It is not fully open for business unless the Iranians have {quote} decided it is.
43:39The idea here is that somehow this administration and the deal that has been cut weakens Hezbollah. I'm not seeing it so much.
43:50I'm not seeing it. Maybe it's there and we haven't seen the MOU for the thousandth time.
43:55We haven't seen the MOU.
43:57It's not because of me. I would like to see the MOU. I think you would like to see the MOU. Hell, I think we'd all like to see the MOU. If Israel is not a party to the actual talks, which they are not.
44:07They've not been included in the talks.
44:08If Israel is not a signatory to the agreement, which they are not, how in the world could you tie Israel's hands when it comes to self-defense in Lebanon while Hezbollah is firing rockets and drones over the border at Israeli citizens? Uh shall we say that this is not a popular MOU from what I understand in Israel.
44:27And again, Israel, they were flying jets alongside American jets during this whole operation.
44:32Iran was firing at American soldiers during this whole operation.
44:36So, playing halvesies is a bit strange.
44:40If we release funds, or if we tell our Arab Gulf State allies to release funds to Iran, it doesn't have to be American taxpayer dollars, that is us releasing money to Iran.
44:51If you unfreeze money to a terrorist group, that is in fact money going to a terrorist group. It does not have to come from American, that's slight of hand, it's rhetorical slight of hand.
45:01Has not earned the impression that you and I would be paying taxpayer dollars to go straight to Iran.
45:05But if we press people to release money to a terrorist state, in order for them to continue to toll the strait and to exert control whenever they feel threatened, or for them to rebuild their ballistic missile and nuclear capacities, that is a gigantic mistake. So, to go back to the five standards of a good deal versus a bad deal. A bad deal would look like continued nuclear development.
45:28A bad deal would look like continued ballistic missile development.
45:32A bad deal would look like funding of terrorism abroad continuing.
45:35A bad deal would look like continued Iranian control over the strait and tolling of the strait.
45:41And a bad deal would look like more funding going into Iran.
45:46>> So, that's the kind of pressure he's getting from his right. He's also getting it from the left. Uh I think the only thing first there's so many things he said that are just ridiculous there.
45:56Like to see the vice president standing with a terrorist. They just had the chief head chopper from Al-Qaeda at the White House. Uh and he's also welcomed on Downing Street. So this this idea that >> Something was with Something was with the the the the military dictator of Egypt, General Sisi, today. And also at the same time, Ben Shapiro is talking about our Arab Persian Gulf allies and partners who are the worst despots and tyrants on the planet, the Saudis and the Emirates, etc. So that whole pretense that old Ben Shapiro cares so deeply about the freedom and civil liberties and welfare of the Iranian
46:30people and cares that also, you know, I don't know if Ben Shapiro knows this, but in World War II, the United States was allied with Joseph Stalin, who actually killed huge numbers of people far far far far far more than the Iranians ever thought about killing.
46:45And President Roosevelt and then afterwards, uh Harry Truman, sat down with with Joseph Stalin along with Winston Churchill in order to create peace deals and create the Nuremberg trials. I mean, if JD Vance would meet with Iranian officials, that's not even close to the worst people on the planet that the United States met has met with not just historically, but continues to this very day to meet with. But I think the more important point is not just all that pro-Israel propaganda that if you don't know by now it's propaganda, you probably aren't going to listen to me explaining why. The The issue is what you referred to earlier,
47:19which is there are a lot of Democrats who agree with Ben Shapiro.
47:23You know, today Adam Schiff came out and basically was complaining that Trump, quote unquote, capitulated, that this is a horrible deal.
47:29The Democratic Party is filled with AIPAC loyalists. They're led in the Senate by Chuck Schumer, who absolutely wants this war to continue. And that's the pressure that Trump is going to be facing if this is a real intent to stop this war either permanently or into the near future, which is the pro-Israel lobby does not take losses, certainly not without nuclear bombs being launched. And they have both parties, not just the neocon right led by people like Mark Levin and uh >> Lindsey Graham >> and and Mike Huckabee and Ben Shapiro, they have all those AIPAC wars in the Democratic Party as well, and both of
48:08them are going to close in around Trump and Vance in order to claim that they surrendered to Iran. And I wouldn't be surprised to me, let me just say this one thing, in the last time a an American president really tried to defy the pro-Israel lobby was during Bush 41, when James Baker and all those guys were telling the Israelis we weren't going to give them loan guarantees if they didn't stop expanding West Bank settlements.
48:31And Bill Clinton in 1992, when he ran against Bush 41, ran on a platform in part accusing the Bush administration of being anti-Semitic because they were criticizing Israel and that was endangering American Jews, and I think that's what's going to have to start to happen to Trump as well.
48:48>> That That's See, that's why the No Kings rally doesn't have a demand even end the Iran war because the Democrats are actually for the Iran war. Chuck Schumer is a tool of Israel and the AIPAC lobby, as is Hakeem Jeffries. I mean, again, the whole the whole Democratic leadership is and the They're all neocons. That's the whole part. We have two right-wing parties, so to speak, in America. We don't There is no left-wing in the United States, and that's why we have the horrible government we have. We don't We don't have a an opposition party. It's just It's one party, and they all agree on the same
49:25things, which is Israel, more war with in the Middle East, more war in Ukraine, the keeping American workers from health care, and crushing unions. They all agree on all the same horrible stuff.
49:39Okay.
49:40>> Right. And you know, that's why, to the extent I was ever kind of curious about or even interested in the Trump movement and the emergence of Donald Trump, was because it presented an opportunity that did not previously exist where you had a Republican president running for president 2016 against all those establishment Republican goons like Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz and all the rest and he was running on a platform saying endless war is a disaster, the Iraq war was destructive, we have to get out of the Middle East, we're pouring all our money into the military industrial complex and then eventually that morphed
50:15into a significant a very significant uh faction on the American right, the populist American right that took America first seriously, that started questioning our participation in NATO wars in Ukraine as well as eventually our because of our alliance with and support for Israel. And you have in a lot of ways this very unique populist uh coalition from left and right and from other places on the map that I had seen and hoped to kind of nurture and and feed all the way back, you know, when I was going on Tucker show in 2016 and talking to Megyn Kelly and being on Laura Ingraham and going on these
50:52right-wing shows where I was talking about this anti-imperialist agenda because I saw these cracks forming.
50:58And I reached a point where and I'm sure I know you did too, where the idea of just like staying within the Democratic Party and hoping that like one day AOC who's quickly on her way to becoming the next Pelosi or if not worse, you know, somehow reforms any of this and introduces a new politics which is never going to happen. To me the only possibility for a new politics is creating a new coalition, like a new group of people who really aren't quite so identifiable any longer as left versus right but kind of opposed to the corporatist and militaristic establishment and agenda that you just laid out.
51:32>> Do you think that uh I used to be a believer in third parties, but I've seen the corruption infiltration of the Green Party uh and why won't the just like the establishment has completely bought corporate news and corporate media to to as Chomsky taught us that they're they're not to give you the news but to manufacture consent and now they're taking over independent news also. I mean they're infiltrate why wouldn't they buy off independent news? Why wouldn't of course they're doing that.
52:03Um that they're they're they they will just buy off the third party that's it's divide and conquer. They'll they'll infiltrate and they'll get them to to care about things that are wedge issues.
52:15They'll be talking about bathrooms and and you know biological males in sports and you know the baseball team in San Francisco putting a a gay pride flag on their hat and people wearing Bible verses. So they're going to talk about that non-stop until the So I just don't do you really believe that there's a chance for a third party like a people of of of like-minded people like you and Tucker Carlson and and me and Dave Smith and those types of people. Do you think that there could ever >> you have to believe it because if you don't First of all, if you don't believe it then I don't know what we're doing,
52:52right? Like if if I were just defeated and black pilled about everything like there's never going to work. The Republicans and Democrats are going to just you know maintain this monopoly this stranglehold in our politics forever.
53:02I would go find something else to do.
53:04Like I wouldn't just sit here spinning my wheels believing that it was all futile.
53:08And the other thing I would say is I've seen enough in politics I like I'll just give you an example to me. I never thought I would see the day.
53:18I never thought I would see the day when a majority of Americans say they identify with and sympathize more with and support Palestinians more than they do with Israelis. I never thought I would see the day when conservatives and Republicans under the age of 50 oppose US financing and support for Israel.
53:36This changed very rapidly. Things that you couldn't say without suffering complete reputational and career destruction 5 years ago is now mainstream for everybody to say. And there are other more banal examples like, you know, I when I when I was 25 and in law school and working on gay issues, nobody ever thought gay marriage was even a possibility and now it's just the law in all 50 states and multiple countries around the world. These changes that you think are impossible can happen and they happen quickly. And I think the most important political fact is that pretty much everybody hates the establishment. People don't trust
54:16institutions of authority. It's why somebody as unlikely as Donald Trump got elected and really it's even as why somebody as unlikely as Barack Obama got elected. And you see in politics throughout Europe and throughout all the democratic world, this extreme fundamental discontent fracturing what had long been these stable orthodoxies and producing outcomes sometimes are good and sometimes they're not, but ones that never really people thought were were possible.
54:47And yes, I I I don't think it's easy. I don't think it's going to happen tomorrow. I'm not even willing to necessarily bet that it will, but you have to find something that you believe in and that you think is possible to to change, otherwise what's the point?
55:02>> I think the only way something like that can happen is if the pain gets so great for the American people that they actually rise up. The workers have to rise up. Like I had told Tucker if if Trump doesn't end this war and gas prices do go to $10 a gallon, I'm sure the truckers will occupy uh Wall Street or or the capital. And if all the rail workers didn't show up for work for a couple of days, if all the port workers didn't show up, or if all the essential workers, as we found out during COVID, what is actually essential and what isn't, it's not middle management. Uh if they they would have to do something
55:40like that and they would have to connect that to a demand and that demand would be no corporate money, no billionaire money in politics. It's all got to be publicly financed. To me, that's the only way that we can get control of our government again in a non-violent way anyway is that if we we do we we have to shut down the machine. The workers have to do that and then have a demand tied to it and that demand has to be public financing of elections. What do you say say to that? Do you have a better idea?
56:11>> Well, I mean I broadly agree with that, but I would also say that um you know, the the two-party duopoly in a lot The only real vulnerability that it has is that there emerges some third option that either is driven by populist rage and desperation as you just described and or is backed by some kind of unlimited billionaire funding.
56:41And you know, uh the the example that I often use is, you know, in 19 1990 in 1990 1988 and 1992, Ross Perot mounted a very serious third-party campaign. He made the stage. He there was a chance he could win for a while because he was a billionaire funding his own campaign and they couldn't really stop that. Um had Bernie Sanders been been nominated, had the DNC not cheated in 2016 for Hillary and had Bernie Sanders been nominated and it was Bernie against Trump, I'm absolutely positive somebody like Michael Bloomberg probably him or somebody like him would have would have run this third-party billionaire-backed campaign. Now,
57:18obviously, there's nothing promising about that. Although, Ross Perot's campaign was really interesting in retrospect because it was largely warning about the dangers of free trade and how NAFTA and all those free trade agreements were going to destroy the entire American working class and and that sucking sound that he described of the entire, you know, heartland being de-industrialized actually is exactly what ended up happening.
57:43So, you know, I personally or you could even in this kind of age where charisma and attention matters so much, you could imagine a very well-known figure who has a lot of capacity to inspire people, to speak well, to gain attention, somebody like Tucker Carlson who could enter that breach between the discontent that emerges out of the the policies that both parties share and make clear that it's not one party or the other you, it's both parties, it's the two-party dogma and somebody like that, I, you know, would love to see a Tucker candidacy or somebody who has similar abilities and skills to be able to
58:24kind of patch together that coalition of working class people, of people who are anti-war, who are anti-corporate that we were just describing. So, again, I'm not saying any of these options are easy.
58:35Obviously, the Republicans and Democrats have spent decades building it so that it's almost impossible to do, but as long as it's not impossible, and I think the key ingredient is this extreme radical anti-system, anti-status quo anger that is more pervasive than most people realize, that we can be the driving force for it.
58:58>> Um it's it's pride month and uh I was just in uh Spokane, Washington and Tacoma and they were all full-blown priding.
59:08And um what what I've been saying on stage is that uh it's it's kind of funny to me that there's a big faction of the country that sees gay people still as victims and I have to remind them you're victors. They're you're not a victim.
59:28You're a vic- You have won.
59:30And it there there's nothing you're fighting for anymore.
59:33And so what this Now they're just using the uh 2SAL LGBTQIA++ They're just using that now to I see that as the establishment using that to keep people divided. And because otherwise people could come together easily.
59:53Uh Do you agree with that that gay people are the victors and they're not victims anymore?
59:58>> Of course Here's the thing This is my view of this, which is Like I told you before when when I first, you know, started becoming uh involved in, say, you know, the fight for equality for gay people when when gay people had not won. I mean, there were there was no equal rights for gay people. All this is, you know, coming out of the '80s where some of the worst things happened, like people who were married and who were living together, who were in love with each other, one of them got sick and they had no legal rights. The the spouse did, and so the parents who were anti-gay were able to keep them out of the hospital room while
60:32they were dying, out of the decision.
60:34And really horrible horrible stuff.
60:36Um but you know, you could easily get fired for being gay. Like no no no equality at all.
60:43Once that movement started succeeding, and it started succeeding because not because people with opposing views were censored, not because they were canceled or demonized, but because they were persuaded.
60:56>> Right.
60:57>> You know, they were persuaded that what you have in your mind of a gay person, this demonization that you've been fed, actually what gay people are is that uncle that you've always loved, or your younger brother, or the neighbor that you have always trusted your kids with, or your teacher that, you know, was so important in your formation. That's what ultimately persuaded people that gay people are, you know, people and deserve the the rights as else.
61:21Once and and and and as I said, gay marriage wasn't even anything that anyone even thought of.
61:28That was so unrealistic.
61:30And then ultimately that became kind of the North Star of gay and lesbian politics. And then that happened. That happened. Even before Obergefell, the Supreme Court decision in 2015 that that said it's unconstitutional to deny deny gay people the right to marry, state after state after state was democratically enacting the legalization of same-sex marriage. Suddenly in all 50 states, gay couples and gay people had 100% full legal equality.
61:55What happened? The problem is is that you have all these activist groups that are drowning in huge amounts of money. These big establishment DNC-adjacent groups like the Human Rights Campaign and GLAAD and all these advocacy groups.
62:10And they're filled with money. They have big buildings. The the the people who work there get big NGO salaries.
62:17And these activist groups don't want to win because if they win it means, "Okay, let's let's close up." Like you said, "We won."
62:24So that means it's time to close up these activist groups. We don't need this constant, you know, victim victimhood narrative.
62:31And this is true for every group. For black groups, for the ADL, the ADL needs anti-Semitism, the NAACP needs racism epidemics. Now when these feminist groups need misogyny, that's what they feed on. And so even if they win, they can't admit it. So what will happen is they'll start inventing whole new issues to claim injustice. And that's exactly when these gay groups stopped caring about gay and lesbian rights and moved into trans issues.
62:57But even there, people didn't really care about trans people. They were fine with Most Americans have this live and let live attitude. Nobody cares if the person down the block, you know, on the corner or in some apartment, you know, was born a man and wants to live as a woman. It doesn't really affect So what they had to do is create societal resistance. No, we're not just asking for tolerance. We're we're or even legal equality. We want your kids to be identified as trans. We want, you know, girls sports to now include boys who are And so this created this resistance that then in turn was picked up by the
63:33right that also needs culture war issues in order to avoid the more important and substantive and more difficult questions of how power is dispersed with war and military and economics. And both these relatively trivial culture war disputes and they feed on each other and that's exactly the sort of uh illusion that these two parties rely upon to create the perception that they're always at each other's throats and that they're radically different when in reality on the issues that matter most people's everyday lives, they're far more similar than they are different.
64:10>> Uh do you do you do you see any hope for that issue? I because again, I I I agree with everything you just said that they they have to now create these niche kind of the wedge issues and uh it's just amazing to me that uh you know, I grew up and there were a thing called cross-dressers and everybody except they're on Phil Donahue and they were on Geraldo and everybody except okay, there's there's straight guys who like to dress like women and that's their thing and nobody cared and now they all disappeared and now everybody's trans and so it's like that because they just like you said that the you know, Zionism needs
64:46anti-Semitism as its fuel, they need some kind of hatred of some kind of subset of gay group to as their fuel to justify their existence. Do you see any hope for this to end?
64:59>> Yeah, I mean, I actually think that the vast majority of Americans are not primarily motivated by these issues. I don't think the vast the of Americans are hateful. Obviously, demagogues and politicians try and exploit hatred and they try and augment it and and and and and give it nutrition because they want it to grow because that is a politically potent weapon is to make people afraid of the people down the block instead of the people in Washington.
65:31And if you can get people afraid of each other, you know, the immigrants or the gay people or the Christians or whomever, that is a very powerful force.
65:41But I do think most Americans have a kind of basic decency to them outside of the like political junkie class and the political the political discourse. Not saying there's not we're not prejudiced and we all are. We're all kind of, you know, have our bigotries and our prejudices that come from our subjective experiences, but I don't think most Americans are hateful and want to just constantly be fed this political diet of just hating others.
66:06Um the problem is, you know, it's it's political propaganda. It's It's It's demagogues who who are skilled at getting us to hate each other, but I don't think most people are going to the polls primarily concerned about keeping trans people out of sports or putting them in sports.
66:22I think most people, black and white and Latino and male and female and gay and straight and trans and cis, whatever, Muslim and Christian and you know, uh Jewish and atheist, whatever, and it's a little cliche the way I'm describing it, but it's still true, wake up and care about the economic condition of their their lives, whether when they get sick they're going to be able to afford, you know, to have their parents cared for or or, you know, have a decent end to their life or when their kids get sick whether they're going to have access to health care, whether they're going to have like a decent ability to raise kids, to pay
66:55for house their houses, to not be drowning in debt. These are the things that determine a person's life and their happiness and their fulfillment. And I think that's what people are most focused on. And if you take polls and ask people about that, they'll tell you I care about the physical security of my family like issues of crime and security. Obviously, you're always going to care about that and the economy and and my ability to have a decent life for myself and my family by working dignified jobs. And I think that's what most Americans are hungry for is a politics that directly addresses that
67:29need and people that have pretended to care about that like Obama and Trump have succeeded because they convinced most people that that was where their focus would be even though it ended up not being there.
67:40>> Okay.
67:41All right, Glenn. Well, I appreciate you coming on the show. I it's been way too long. I miss you personally.
67:48I always enjoy your company.
67:50And uh it hurt it does hurt my feelings when you come to my city and you don't call me.
67:55Uh >> Well, Jimmy, you know I love you. I love your show. Um I love your executive producer.
68:01Um and so, you know, I haven't been on simply because of I have my own show and it was very difficult. I'm always happy to come on. It's always great to see you. Um I'm always a fan of what you're doing and I'm happy to come on whenever.
68:12>> We'll see you in June 26th and 27th in Levittown, New York. August 30th, we're doing a live panel celebrity show in Burbank, California. That's a Sunday, August 30th. Tickets always go fast on that and then we'll be September 18th through the 20th, we'll be in Chicago, Illinois. Go to jimmydore.com for a link for tickets.
68:30>> [music]
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