0:04For at least 10 years now, hating Trump has been the shest possible indication of liberalism. If you really hate Donald Trump, you're probably filled with hate for the United States. You probably hate whites. Probably anxious to give kids the COVID vax and castrate boys and put non-binary people on the swim team or whatever. But there was a pretty much for about a decade a onetoone correlation between disliking Donald Trump, hating Donald Trump, Trump derangement syndrome, and liberalism or it's sort of weird American manifestation. But now we're in a weird moment, an even stranger moment where a lot of people who really like Trump are very disappointed
0:48in Trump. In fact, more than disappointed, feel betrayed or enraged, feel like suckers, feel like they've been taken for a ride. How could I possibly have supported that given what it became? A lot of people seem to feel that way. But do a lot of people seem to feel that way? Do they actually feel that way? According to polls on CNN, 100% of MAGA voters still support Trump.
1:15Is that real? Well, it's really hard to know given how fraudulent so much polling is. So, we thought we would speak to the one person we know who sincerely supported Trump from the very beginning.
1:29wrote speeches for Trump in 2015, voted for Trump three times. New people within the Trump White House, worked with the Trump White House, and all along that period, 10 years, supported Trump in public, not on television, which is easy, but in his own neighborhood, which was 100% Trump haters.
1:50That person is my brother. It turns out, Buckley Carlson, Uncle Buck, as he's known to us. And so, we thought we would sit down and ask him, are we imagining this? Did the guy you supported from 2015 in the face of social sanction like you wouldn't believe, did that guy just betray everything you believe and the reasons you supported him in the first place? Are we imagining this? Is it real? Here's the conversation we had with Uncle Buck. You were the first person I knew personally who supported Donald Trump. And I remember thinking later when I thought about it, I was like, you're a lifelong resident, 40-year resident of Washington DC, which voted for Trump
2:35in 2016 at 4.1%. So you were in the 4% of district residents who supported Trump, and you're a Wasp, and that's the group that hated Trump most. How did you wind up supporting Trump in like 2015?
2:54The departure. Trump represented a departure that I had never seen in Washington. He was first I should say I knew him my entire life as anybody who grew up in the 80s did, right? Because he was such a I didn't know him personally. I know you did, but um I knew of him as everybody around us did because he was such a carnival barker of self-promotion. Yeah. Gold dip braggadocio. Uh lying. I mean, he was a performer and he was the creator of his own story, which on the one hand was disgusting because he was a man of obvious uh faults. I mean, he was gross and loud and brash and crude and a serial adulterer and all the things that you probably wouldn't want
3:43to be and certainly wouldn't want your children to be. Well, that's why the wasp didn't like him cuz he bragged about himself. Yes. Which is like, you know, rule one. You can't do that. That's why my children didn't like you know it's like very much so. Yeah. So that was a massive hurdle and I mean they already had a candidate called Jeb Bush. I was aware I was compelled actually for the first time ever by some of my clients to actually contribute to Jeb Bush. But but he was the consensus choice of his people. I mean he converted to Catholicism but no one really took that seriously. He was a birthright episcipalian like everyone knew this is our guy. It was his
4:15time. It was yes his time. He was the adult in the room. I remember early on actually he raised $100 million famously obviously and he was just the guy that was going to take us. But did you even know anyone who didn't support him? I didn't know a single person who didn't support him. No. But he had his his domestic policy, his foreign policy, everything about him, nothing about him was exciting. All of it was polltested as everything in Washington had been up until the moment Trump came on the scene. Right. And Trump was very, if if not articulate, he was he had baseline messages that were unassalable and that he repeated with great repetition. And the things that he espoused
4:58and talked about endlessly were things that I believed in and things that most Americans when they actually took the time to separate him, separate Trump's policies from Trump the man, were super attractive. And it was such a departure from what we'd seen from every other elected official, especially obviously it was the end of the Obama years which were such a disappointment but also the destruction of weak pole tested you know very well uh packaged candidates like um who's that who's that forgettable Utah senator uh oh yeah and of course uh so Trump talked about actually focusing on America, repairing the problems that this entire class of people had brought upon us,
5:46the American citizens. But you were in that class of people and you literally worked for a polling the most famous polling company and you were in politics and you live in northwest Washington DC and like basically Trump is calling for the destruction of your world. I didn't see it that way because I think these people had already destroyed our world. And I'd seen it up close and personally, not only in the education system, but in the environment around me. We lived in a much dirtier country. We lived in a country that wouldn't even embrace any of the things that were great about America that I had grown up embracing. Not just freedom, not just not just individuality,
6:21but cleanliness and Christian principles. And yeah, um, we had such a wonderful country when I was growing up and it had been transformed. You could see it in Washington probably better than you could see it even in border states. The the disconnect between what people had voted for, what people wanted, what they continually expressed that they wanted from the Republican leaders um, and they were denied it every time. And Trump came in and said, "Look, there there's an end to that. This is unacceptable. We've failed over the past 30 years. I've seen it up close and personal. Aside from all of his obvious foibless and his disgusting elements of his personality,
7:03he was, it seemed, someone who had been steeped. He built things and and very few people built things by the time Trump came along. We were not a manufacturing society at that point. And even if I didn't like his gilded name on all sorts of properties, he had employed a ton of people.
7:21He had actually contributed to the economy. He had been saying a lot of these financial I wasn't really steeped in the financial world and didn't understand our trade policies. But when Trump explained how beneficial it was to the rest of the world rather than America, our trade policies, I actually paid attention and read up and and and realized that he was telling the truth. And then everything he said about the border, which you could see if you traveled around America, which I certainly did, the degradation of America was obscene and the the destruction of things that I had held dear my entire life and I think most Americans did. It was Trump represented a
8:06return to normaly and then of course I was totally enamored of his personal strength and his ability to there's nobody who has been more attacked than Donald Trump obviously over the last decade but nothing more aggressively than when he first came down that escalator and announced for president like he was attacked by absolutely everybody in the world not just the left not just the media but as you said everybody on the right took as a joke. It's like actually we're not electing individuals.
8:37We're electing the policies that they will defend and put forward when they're in office. And Trump articulated a very small set of priorities that I really found attractive and did so with calm and repetitiveness that seemed legit and sincere, especially the more he was attacked because he never bended. And I'd never seen that in American politics ever. And you've been around it a lot.
9:04Been around a lot. And actually, you know, jumping forward a decade and Trump has expand had expanded the coalition so aggressively. Back when he started, the ideas in the Republican party about expanding the coalition were not harnessing the things that were great about America. It was actually surrendering to, you know, speak Spanish if you want to appeal to new voters.
9:27uh don't talk about the cultural degradation of America because that will turn people off. Well, Trump flipped that over flipped that on its head completely and said actually there's a lot about America we should and will be defending. And so that attracted me to him. I I love that about him. Everyone loves relaxing at home. Cozy Earth can maximize that experience. If you haven't tried their robes or their slippers, you may be missing out. Soft, breathable, lightweight, the epitome of comfort. Perfect for slow mornings. Put one on after the shower. hang out in front of the fire. You put on the robe, you don't want to take it off. We haven't even mentioned the slippers,
10:02which are warm and comfortable and easy to wear around the house. By the way, at this point, you can wear them to Walmart. No one will say anything. With Mother's Day coming up, Cozy Earth can provide the perfect gift. Something she will use and appreciate every day. If you're nervous about making a purchase, don't worry. Cozy Earth backs everything with a 100 night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty, all risk-free. Visit cozyearth.com. Use the code Tucker for 20% off. That's cozyearth.com. Promo code Tucker for 20% off. We've got a post-purchase survey. Mention you heard about Cozy Earth from us on this show. Wow. When did you get involved? The end of 2015.
10:41I got hooked up with people in Trump's orbit. It was still a very embionic campaign. I mean, the entire campaign was mostly a media campaign. Even throughout the whole 16 effort, but early on never stopped being a media campaign. It never stopped being a media campaign. But there were a few you know a few people around him who were actually producing work. Um so I got in touch with them or through I got connected through a common friend of ours and uh ended up writing some early speeches for Trump and Steven Miller. I was corresponding with Steven Miller and writing some early speeches for Trump. That's crazy. I didn't realize that at the time. I
11:21don't think I took Trump seriously at all until the summer of 15 probably um when our friend Patrick Feny in Maine told me that he was thinking about voting for Trump or Bernie Sanders. They seem very similar to him. And I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about. They're polar opposites. And I and my brain started to change. I started to see the obvious. But you were already on it. That's so interesting. I mean, it's a lot to ask anybody to understand his own motives, but why do you think to the extent you can analyze it, why do you think you living in a political world with a political job, being from a group of people who hated Trump, living in a neighborhood
12:04that hated Trump, why were you uniquely able to see the things that your neighbors couldn't, like the degradation of America and and connect that to the policies that produced it? And why why could nobody else? Maybe it was because I had actually worked in Washington for so long. I hadn't been born in Washington but had moved there as a teenager and then had worked in politics, elected politics and then corporate America but very much adjacent to political world and worked with pollsters and people who message tested and I had worked closely with the Republican coalition when they got back in power in '94. Um, and I saw to the extent that people were phony, there was a
12:46huge disconnect between their personal lives and how they voted and how they campaigned. Gay and gay, super gay and very much in our party, which I was surprised by because the left was always crazy and they were always sort of attracted these people who at least they were open about it. The Bernie Franks of the world at least. No, totally. their weird lifestyles, but the Republican party was completely um empty. And I had also lived through empty. What do you mean? They had no principles that they were willing to stand up for. And I had seen probably the starkkest example was John McCain, who I had grown up really respecting was at a time in America when people actually
13:26celebrated war heroes. I thought he was a war hero at that time. and I've subsequently learned differently. But um it was when he attacked the tobacco industry early on when I was first working for corporate America, a big PR firm, and he had led the charge against big tobacco and had been a grandstander and a phony, and I had known him personally and really liked him as a person. I did too. I really liked him as a guy. Yeah. He was hilarious. He was hilarious and physically tough.
13:55I thought he was physically tough and he was also, sorry to say it out loud, he was a wasp and he had grown up in he gone to Episcopal High School and he just had excellent manners. He was funny in a way that I could relate to. He had a kind of heart to him, a kind of physical courage that I of course, you know, we grew up admiring that and uh I was completely taken in by his persona or so.
14:20Not even the war stuff, but um just his sort of I don't know his style. I just I understood it immediately and I liked it. He was the guy he was totally approachable. I remember early on in my political career that I would come across him at fundraisers and cocktail parties and he's the guy I would gravitate to and stand next to the bar and chat with cuz he was so approachable and funny.
14:41So funny. Yeah. And he did he seemed that was representative of a really different time. I mean that was you know the Lindsey Grahams of the world walk around with huge security details now. Oh, I know. I wish someone would explain that to me. But um John McCain didn't John McCain was a man's man. Exactly. And he was, as I said, I thought physically tough. So, no, that is such a smart point. Like, men did not have security details. It's just a show of rank. It's also a display of cowardice, honestly. And um McCain would never have a security detail because culturally we don't do that. Plus, he seemed capable of beating him to death with his comb. I mean, if he had to.
15:22I totally agree. I mean all of this is like lost on people now but no I complete a security detail.
15:29What? Who do you think you are? It's absolutely shameful. No. And he had a kind of again not to make it an ethic thing but it's a cultural thing. He was had like a kind of wasp egalitarianism to him that was completely real. Like he would have a legit conversation with the waiter. Yes. Was not a rank guy like these fraudulent new money insecure people. He was like a real guy. Yes.
15:51Is that is that fair? very much so. plus hilarious in the sense demonstrates one obviously not only a high intellect but a a certain comfort with people and if you can talk to your constituents I wasn't really a constituent of his but I was you know a 23-year-old and I was an American and he made me feel like my opinion mattered and he could he wasn't self-conscious he was not a big apologizer he didn't think about what he said exactly and Trump was the same way Trump was like wait so but get go back to the McCain thing I knew McCain very very I intimately well and uh and was and and really liked him as I said. But the tobacco thing, tell me what why that was significant to you cuz
16:31I agree with that. Well, tobacco represented first of all not only like one of the biggest um commercial products that we have in America. I always thought it was sort of entwined with American freedom history 100%. We had all these tobacco producing states all around DC of course, but in the south that was the point of the colony. 100%. Absolutely. They f I mean they threw the tobacco bales and the coffee bales but tobacco as well. Um tobacco was a great American heritage product and as a consumer who enjoyed tobacco I always sort of respected it and but it tied in also with a sense of personal responsibility which we never see now is there was a you know you had
17:14the freedom to smoke. May it be bad for you? Yes. I think every smoker knew it was probably bad for you. you have the obvious uh you cough, you get pneumonia every year, you smell bad, your teeth turn brown, whatever. No one no one was surprised when the attorney general came out and said smoking's bad for you. But the hypocrisy, first of all, the overreach of someone in the Republican party supposedly champion of free markets and freedom and personal freedom would go after and grandstand about the tobacco companies and how they had lied about the addictive properties of tobacco when everybody knew they were addictive. The majority of countries smoked at that time.
17:54We had come from a smoking heritage. Um and not only that, the majority of governments including state governments were wellinvested in tobacco. They had taken a lot of you know public employees investment funds and invested in Philip Morris and RJR and Brown and Williamson and the other big ones. Uh I guess those are the Laur Lurard Laurard forgive me. Uh so American tobac tobacco was intertwined with the American experience as far as I understood it. And if you're going to go after, it's like going after the foundation of your company. It's on your country. It's wrong on so many levels. I agree. Such a kick in the crotch, I think. And he did it in a in a grandstanding
18:40fraudulent way. Yes. Very much so. And and also did it at the last minute. And he I can't remember he was he I think he was chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. I'm not sure why they had purview over it. And I worked intricately in this uh in defense of the tobacco companies at the time when they came up with their um their huge settlement which involved a lot of humiliation for them. They paid for their own destruction uh at to the detriment of individual Americans, but also to the detriment of people who'd been invested in tobacco and to the enrichment of like the trial lawyers and like totally disgusting little 501c3s like campaign for tobacco free kids, Michael
19:22Myers. It's like the worst people in the world won. Some of the best people lost and the the people making the deals sold their own dignity. And for what? Did public health get better?
19:35Did the life expectancy in this country rise? No, it went down. I think John Cole got a really big boat out of it. And I think Dicky Scrugs also, you know, brother-in-law to to Trent Lot at the time who was the majority leader. I mean, it seemed like a setup and it was offensive and it dominated political discourse for a couple of years and it the country actually hasn't recovered from that.
19:58I agree. I agree. Did it make you quit smoking? Uh, no. Oh, I probably actually went from a two two pack a day to three peek a day smoker at the time. There were some benefits actually because uh Philip Morris and RJR would send that they had it was right around the time too that the to RJR Nabiscoco merger. So, they used to send these huge packages to our office wrapped in a big faux cream cheese case and you'd open it up and we'd have cartons of cigarettes and Nabiscoco crackers and all sorts of cookies and chocolates and and uh the original non-smoking cigarette they had too which tasted terrible. It was awful. It was awful. But it was a neat concept where you
20:38heat the tobacco rather than burn it, right? Yes. You get your nicotine but it was disgusting. That was a Philip Morris. I believe that was a Philip Morris product. Yeah. They sent it to me and I try remember smoking in my office thinking who would smoke that? Yeah. Now it was like it was like trying Brussels sprouts. Each time I did it I was like I'm going to like this. Normal people like I never tried it. You know it's repulsive. Um, but that was a huge sense of betrayal early on and then when he ran I was wary of John McCain and then when he ran for president got the nomination.
21:10um he totally fumbled it and it seemed like it was an absolute surrender to this unknown but obviously Marxistbased anti-American candidate anti-white anti-American candidate and he that was not his to lose that was ours to lose and he did that on our behalf and do you think he threw the fight he refused to I mean on the heels of 9/11 He refused publicly and excoriated people for saying pointing out Barack Obama's real name Barack Hussein Obama or Barry Satur talking about his early years in uh in Indonesia talking about his church that he went to in this anti-American anti-white church talking refusing to talk about any of his heritage which was obviously
22:00fabricated and and dishonest. It was the first time, I think, in American history that a a presidential candidate was not only not vetted at all, but you were excluded from knowing anything about him of any relevance. And John McCain, who was the standard bearer of the Republican party at the time, had an obligation actually to be the top watchdog about his opponent. That's your job.
22:24Your job is to fight a battle. And he refused to fight it. So, I never forgive him for that.
22:30That's such a smart point. I was too close to it even to get that. But the cost of living is already making it hard to live here and it's not getting any better. Unfortunately, it's likely to get worse. And a lot of Americans fill the gap with credit cards, not just for fancy dinners, but to cover things like groceries and bills. And that is a disaster. It's understandable, but don't go down that road because there is a tax in effect, a survival tax of 20% interest or more.
22:57Why would you do that? Why would you hand money to the big banks when you could keep it for your family? Our friends at American Financing have a better way. If you're looking to buy your first home or refinance your current one, they're helping Americans achieve the dream of home ownership with monthly mortgage rates currently in the fives. American Financing saves its customers an average of 800 bucks per month. That's nearly 10 grand every year back to you. This isn't just a loan. It's a total financial reset. So debt is tough, but there's a smart way to do it and a reckless, self-destructive way to do it. Credit cards. And so we recommend American
23:33Financing. They're salary based, not commission based, which means they actually work for you, not the banks. They're called America's home for home loans for a reason. Call 800685-5696 800685-5696 or visit americanfinancing.net/tucker. Um, so then we have 8 years of Obama and it becomes pretty clear in the second term that like he hates the country he's leading. He really hates white people. Tons of whites voted for him. Um, tons of whites voted for him because he was saying, "We're going to get rid of race consciousness in this country and treat people as citizens and human beings and we can move past the division of the like disgusting civil rights movement uh,
24:22thinking and which just anti-white zero sum." And, uh, that Grant Park speech was like I didn't vote for him obviously, but I was like, "God, I hope this is true." It turned out to be the opposite of the truth. Yes. Just like hated whites. And so by the time that ended in 2016, like it was a different country. I had never seen anybody be I mean it was a whole new time. My son was young. He was in uh a private school at the time that embraced all of those anti-white messages, separation. I mean, it was literally the new they talked about Jim Crow while they're instituting Jim Crow in educational world and all throughout society and people in in DC embraced it heavily.
25:06People I had known. All of a sudden, we came from a country that was happy, self-confident, uh really proud of America, suddenly questioning and apologizing for everything that had come before.
25:21And obviously Obama accelerated that to a degree that was disgusting. But it also meant you could no longer have an informed discussion. I remember I had been in Washington for 20 years at that point and I had Democratic friends. I had tons of Democratic friends. You could have a normal conversation, a normal meal. And it was during the Obama years I noticed that you couldn't even have a conversation with these people. They would just cut you off, get instantly angry. obviously born of some sort of some sort of cowardice on their part or regret, but they were so vicious against open discourse. They couldn't defend their candidate or in that case their president at that
25:59point, but they also couldn't discuss it and they hated you for it. They hated you for pointing out if you just said simply as I did to several Democrats, I'm not attacking Obama. Just tell me why you support this man as our president. Tell me what he's doing to to strengthen our country.
26:16and they would look blank or angry and that was pervasive I think on the left. So then Trump starts making noises about running in 2015 and it's not even on the radar of most people in DC that I remember. It's like Trump I mean I talked to Trump he called me in 2015 said I'm going to run and I said I don't I don't believe you. I think you're selling another book. I'd seen him do this before 15 years previous. You know, the the campaign was a book tour. Yes. And he said to me, I think I'm I'm going to surprise you this time. But I still didn't take him seriously. Really, but you did. And you reached out to people. What did you think of the people around Trump
26:57then? There weren't many. I was very impressed actually by Steven Miller's intellect and his writing ability. Yeah. And his commitment to uh immigration reform or closing the border.
27:12I thought he was a true believer on that. I did too. I think he probably Well, he certainly was at the time. Uh he was a great writer and easy to talk to and I thought committed. I don't know what his motivations were, but he seemed like he actually was on board for the long haul for this. And and I will say my entire life I'd only been voting barely missed the 88 election, but I've been voting since '92. And in every four years they would say this is the existential election. Like this is the election that really is going to determine the path we're on. And by the time 16 came around, it really seemed with the hangover and the depressing anti-American,
27:55anti-white. the Obama program was so dispiriting to witness. The wreckage I felt socially um that this was the existential election in 16. I felt that strongly. So Trump was the only one.
28:14Everybody else I mean Jeb Bush's program couldn't even tell you what it was. It was forgettable at the time, but it was the same talking points they've been using for two decades referencing Ronald Reagan who I was personally impressed by, but it's not really relevant. and during the Iraq wars and the Afghan war and all that stuff. So, and the degradation that America had experienced that was so overwhelming at that time, it seemed like an existential election and Trump seemed fully committed. And by the time it came around to the debates in the end, when he got the when he finally got the nomination, this is a man who had withtood every single personal degradation you
28:54could possibly imagine and every attack from every quarter of the country. I was fully committed to his program and thought he was real. What kind of speeches did you write for Trump? Mostly about immigration stuff. Uh, rally speeches early on. Yeah. Or during the middle of the campaign. Probably not. I'm trying to think when it was late in 15. That's amazing. I didn't even know you were doing that. I had a lot of freedom to do that was the other thing. The stuff that I delivered. It was I had a lot of freedom to had a lot of license. I felt like I was writing from my own perspective and that's how my that's how aligned I was with what Trump had articulated.
29:32It was like some of the easiest speeches to write because they were they were honest and straightforward and pugnacious and unapologetic. Honest, straightforward, pugnacious. That that came naturally to you. And you don't see a lot of that. I mean, normally when you're writing for a candidate, you've got the lawyer like their campaign manager or some some [ __ ] consultant breathing over your shoulder like, "You can't say that. You need to soften that. You need to Oh, really?" So, you end up with something that's not even distinguishable from the other side. Trump was not just distinguishable from the left. He was distinguished himself from the rest of the 19,
30:10you know, subpar candidates who were running, but they were all representative of that time. And so, I was, man, I never really I didn't spend time around Trump. I I loved his sense of humor, but I loved his consistency and I loved the fact that he never backed down, especially with these people barking in his face and claiming he was the worst man on the planet. Yeah. Racist. It's like I was someone I think it may have been you said, "We're not hiring the guy to, you know, babysit our children." And that was just intuitive to me. It's like I'm Yeah. But he was an outsider, too. And and also he seemed like had a pretty cohesive family at the time. I mean that
30:51attracted me also. It seemed like he had a decent relationship with his children. His son-in-law was running everything. That seemed like a good thing. Yes. Very much so. And a huge departure from what you when you'd seen cuz I'd seen tons of candidates up close whose children were, you know, drunks or drug addicts or suicidal or hated their families, hated their parents and were losers. And they seemed the opposite of that. They seemed like they also believed in a heritage America.
31:18They believed in building stuff, creating jobs, creating prosperity. And even though he was supposedly a billionaire, he was a guy who understood the working man. He understood how the country worked. Sorry to go on so long, but I was going to say when I did early research, I didn't know a lot about our trade policies at the time. I just didn't know the details.
31:39and he talked a lot about it, probably second only to immigration. And when I started doing research on it, I was shocked the amount of stuff that we had given away just gratuitously surrendered to the rest of the world and our trade policies and how that had an effect on our manufacturing.
31:58I'd always blamed the Clintons for, you know, the free trade and and our agreements with Mexico and Canada, cleaning out manufacturing. I was aware of that. I'd seen it happen. Um, but I didn't realize how deep the portrayal was until I started doing research on Trump's individual policies. I just hadn't been focused on it. Spring is the most refreshing time of year. Nothing compliments it better than Black Rifle Coffee. Lots of it. This is an American company founded by veterans with conviction. They built the whole thing around a simple idea. Do it right or just don't do it.
32:31They're definitely doing it right. We know cuz we drink it all day long. If you want coffee without theatrics, start with just black. Whole bean if you grind it yourself, ground if you don't.
32:41No sweeteners designed disguise mediocrity. No seasonal gimmicks masking weak beans. Just bold American roasted coffee that delivers what it promises. And if you prefer variety without lowering the bar, try these supply drop variety rounds. A curated lineup of pod roasts that rotate in but never compromise strength. Consistency, standards, discipline. Out with watered down blends, in with pure American coffee. You can grab just black or supply drop variety rounds on Amazon or go right to blackriflec.com to stock up from the source. Black Rifle Coffee, veteran founded, American roasted, still standing, still brewing. It's interesting. So, the winter of 2015, you're
33:22writing speeches for Trump. I'm just starting to realize this might be the answer or I should at least be open-minded enough. I think it was January of 16 that I decided I'm totally for Trump and wrote a piece about it. But the winter that winter, I remember being at a Christmas party, you may have been there, in our neighborhood on L Street in Northwest at a friend's really good friend's house and um you know, everyone's there. Every family, you know, is there, all of our kids, you know, it's like uh December 23rd kind of potluck, right? just great great people, great friends, and who we lived next to for so long. And my wife, who's totally apolitical, people,
34:01they're all grousing about Trump. I can't believe it. You know, he's a racist. And my wife, totally non-political wife, goes, "I like Trump." And I remember someone, and everyone of course likes my wife. So, but someone laughed like, "Oh, yeah, I like Trump, too." And she no, I really do. Like, someone needs to stand up for I don't know, people who've been shafted and none of them live here, but there are a lot of them in this country. And like I like Trump and people were enraged with her. Like the only time I've ever seen anyone mad at my wife. It's just like no one's ever mad at her. But they were mad and embarrassed and like I can't believe there's someone who in the room
34:35with me who could like Trump. And she of course like didn't even notice that people did. She's like well no what's wrong with that? But that was the response that she got. You were already kind of a more de I mean you brought your son to Episcopal school on a Harley-Davidson. So like obviously you you're a more controversial figure in the neighborhood. What kind of response did you get? I had the benefit of working I say for myself but working from home with a couple of clients that I'd had since 2004. So I'd already really enjoyed have a good relationship with them personally and I worked on issues that mean something to me that I could defend. Um and I had
35:15a light a lot of license to speak my mind if I had an opportunity to do so. So I never I just didn't live in a world where I was subservient to the machine. I hadn't been like that my entire life because we grew up in a different America where you could express yourself and people expected you to and there was never any apology. You may be wrong, you may be dumb, but you can say what you think. And so I just never I'm so fortunate that I was never forced um to think that way. I guess I think that's the reason. Um, and then I was just going to say if you did, you know, every four years they do the blind candidate thing where they describe the candidate without
35:54the name, without the history, as just literally a policy prescription, what this person stands for. And if you did that with Trump at any time during his his campaigns and you just separated the man from the policy, he's his policy is more closely aligned with my world view and my sense of what it means to be America and American and to be a self-confident man who loves your country.
36:21Like I I've never I'm sorry to jump ahead, but I have never even knowing how Washington works, even seeing the vitrial that he encountered and the overwhelming opposition from not just uh political Washington, but the media and the corporate world and everybody else who takes themselves seriously. Uh it was during Trump's inauguration speech the first time and if you read that speech as I did like this is unimpeachable. This is not controversial. These things that he is saying is such a breath of fresh air that no man in American politics has ever had the balls to say. Why is that? Like how is it that we suddenly we are in a country now where it's embarrassing
37:08to say that the reason you have elected officials is so they can take care of America and Americans to this day. I didn't understand it then. I don't understand it now. Maybe I'm simple minded but I think you do understand it. I I do understand it. Yeah. Right. I think you know it's going to oppose it. I'm very angry about it. Right. But this is one of those topics you're like I don't understand what's happening here. Ah, it is unimpeachable to say that we're here Americans. So, yeah, I actually it was at that point that I really started to loathe the people who who were against Donald Trump's program. Yes, you could laugh at him. Yes, you could say take issue with some of
37:48moronic things that he says or the inconsistent things he would say, but he was very consistent about sticking up for America and Americans first and foremost and always. And you put a Trump bumper sticker on your truck. I'll never I did and I'm not a bumper sticker guy at all and I did it I did it a little bit as an act of rebellion because I was aware I was aware I mean I lived in a in a in a neighborhood that you know had a lot of rainbow flags, a lot of anti-war signs, which I'm totally anti-war, but the idea that you're displaying your political views on your car or your lawn, I just find kind of reprehensive. Well, when you live in a city that voted, you know,
38:304.1% for Trump. Yes. It kind of gives you license to because, you know, everybody agrees with you.
38:37It's a one party state. I mean, reflexive and easy to be one of those. I don't think Albania under Hoa had margins like that. I mean, that is just that's truly just one party state. So, um, it doesn't make people's behavior better at all. But you decide when you know that 96% of the people in your city disagree with you to let them know what you think. That's what it's that's what it means to be an American man. I totally agree. Amen. Nicely put. So, what kind of response did you get to your the bumper sticker said, as I as I recall, cuz I was just I was in love with it, amazed by it, and too cowardly to put it on my own car. Um, it said pro, prolife, proun,
39:21pro Trump. No, was actually but it was during the Trump era, so it wasn't explicitly pro Trump, but it certainly captured it was and it had a picture of it was prog and it had the oh the sunset thing and people reacted exactly as you would expect. Very few people would accost me in traffic, beep their horn, flick me off, yell at me. My car would get defaced often. I also had a small American flag in the back of my car that I had to keep replacing because people would steal it. But most people would just avert their eyes in disgust. And um I don't know, those are the kind of people that I just couldn't care less about their opinion. And
40:04even though they're 96% of the population of the city you live in? Yes. I had a lot of friends in DC. I love DC. I love couldn't imagine living there now. But um no, I also lived on kind of a I lived on a culde-sac with a lot of like-minded people just sort of by accident and and and also the kind of people that would be averse to those messages which again I think are foundational to life and certainly life in this country um don't have the courage to attack you for it because they're spineless weenies anyway. Yeah. Whose wives hate them. I totally agree with that. We saw a lot of that. That's exactly right. Yeah. Those are the guys whose wives hit on you. Um,
40:45for sure. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry to say that out loud, but it's literally true. Is it not true? Yes, it is. Yeah, it is. Um, that's the route to adultery is a wife who's unimpressed and and doesn't honor her husband doesn't respect him because he doesn't have a spine. That's exactly right. Yeah. Weak men make unhappy women. Why is there a rise in female cheating? Because there's a rise in weak men.
41:10That's just a fact. Uh, sorry to say that. Sorry to blame the victims, but it is absolutely right.
41:16Um, so then the Trump Reelect 2020, you I remember you wearing a shirt. Now, by this point, you know, I'm defending Trump every single day on Fox News. Yes. On a not always Trump the man, but certainly Trump's policies and certainly attacking people who are attacking Trump because it became a kind of handy guide to who was against the country's most basic interest. People were hysterical about Trump. It was a political colander. I like to say you put those people and it just separated those who were pro-American and reasonable, right? Yeah. From the rest. And the anti-white stuff, which was
41:52always the foundation of it. It's like if you hate whites, you hate Trump, even though Trump was in no sense a like pro-white or anything, but whatever that even means. But he was an equal opportunity lover. I got the sense. I mean, he'd had a very public life. I think he liked all kinds and he was nice to everybody which I never wanted to say in public but I'm but it's well known. It's well known. That's exactly I don't even hesitate even to say it now but like Trump could pretty easily prove he wasn't a racist if you know what I mean. Sorry that I that's just true. Yes. Um, I don't think it's ever been written. But, but but talk about demonstrable. Talk about demonstrating
42:36your your love for all. You don't, right? I mean, you don't No, you're right. If you can do that, then you could do anything. You would support someone. If If you could sleep with someone, you would support them. If you if you're colorblind in your in your sexual aspirations, you're colorblind in everything else, right? I think that's completely fair. That's completely fair. No. Trump is a racist was that I always felt like there are things wrong with Trump have always been. I overlooked most of them or just tried to ignore them or whatever. And some of them I honestly enjoyed, you know, his vulgarity or whatever. I But um his sense of
43:13timing is it was amaz No, there's so much about Trump that's amazing. I completely agree. But the idea that Trump was a racist, it was be like, well, that's actually the one thing he's not. Why are you calling him a race? It's not even true. What are you talking about? Trump is a racist.
43:29I don't I don't know who came up with that. It's because they were race obsessed. That's why. Right. Because they really hated the whites. Yes. And they wanted to they wanted to wait and I have still to this day don't understand why they hated the whites so much. Let's let's give them equal opportunity and credit. The the Democratic Party also was an incredibly racist party. They didn't like blacks. I mean, exactly. Didn't like anybody. Whenever you're race obsessed, you're going to end up hating people on the basis of their race. Just period. Yes. And but yet Trump is a racist. So it's like the dumbest thing I ever heard. But can we go back a minute one second? Of
44:00course, the famous quote, the fact I mean this is another thing that I just so admired about Trump, but it bothered me. It has bothered me now for almost 10 years. How people got the quote, the grab them by the [ __ ] quote so wrong. Oh, I agree. Yeah, because the full quote, if I'm not mistaken, was they let you when you're rich famous to grab them by the [ __ ] So, I thought that was worth some exploration, but no one else did. In what? In what sense? I totally agree. It was an indictment of American culture. It was an indictment of the kind of culture actually that Trump had perpetuated so aggressively over two two decades. the look at me culture, the facade
44:41of success, the very shallow idea that you are, you know, that your worth is caught up in your bank account and your display of wealth when that is such a total corrupting dead end. And it really has hurt the women in this country. It's been to their detriment. Obviously, we could have a lot of long conversation about the failures of feminism, but one of them is that women tried to aspire to a male sexual voraciousness that isn't conducive to them and also isn't beneficial to them because no man wants a woman who's been with a bunch of men. That's like that's a law that's been around forever, a human law. and no celebration of supposed freedom is uh going to obscure that
45:32fact. And so that sorry, but that is exactly what Trump was talking about when he said, "When you're famous, they will allow you to do that." And I noticed that everybody cut that part of the quote out. Even though I thought it was the most interesting part of the quote, he said that to a childhood friend of ours um who was interviewing him and who was destroyed just for being there.
45:56um which was kind of crazy really destroyed by his own employers and their was the NBC and Washington Post colluded together to their detriment but also to the detriment of their employee. It was it was the most they destroyed their employee. No, I demonstration of disloyalty. Yeah. Subservient to political we'd grown up with and knew really well and um it was just the whole thing was sad. Uh, but you're absolutely right. At the core was Trump's vulgar but unfortunately true claim that rich and famous men have a totally different standard of behavior that is allowed by women.
46:31Yeah. And um, you know, men should not act that way. Women shouldn't put up with it. Yeah. And that but that's a fact. And anyone who's been in rich and famous world as I have been a lot of my life knows that that's true. Yes. And uh it's a problem that has at least two authors, men and women. Yeah. Is that fair? Yes. Oh, completely. And and also it demonstrated how committed he was because he should have been if there was ever a time you should be overwhelmed by shame, it was that saying that in public, I mean, it was pretty gross uh and embarrassing and shocking. But the fact that he actually debated Hillary the next day
47:08and did a great job allowed me to believe that this was not about his personal ambition. This was a guy who actually cared about America. He was willing to subject himself to that kind of attack and not like fold up and crawl off in shame. Do you think Jeb could have withtood the pressure?
47:28Apologize to my wife. I think is what he's I think that was like his refrain. Wake up at 2:00 in the morning every night sweating and apologize to my wife. I think he Sorry. I think he said that to Trump during one of the debates. I think Jeb Bush turned to Trump and said, "Apologize to my wife."
47:47It's like, "No man demands an apology from another man who offends his wife. You either you punch him in the face or you take care of it on your own." You don't you think? I mean, if you're going to defend your wife's honor, it's not on a debate stage with those kind of words. If Jeb had walked over and just smashed Trump in the face on the debate stage, perfectly appropriate. I may have voted for him if he had done something like that. if he'd been capable of doing something like that otherwise he actually I hate I don't ever revel in other people's uh misfortune but one of the great things about Trump was his dynasty bashing destroying the fact that he had destroyed the Bush
48:27hold on the political world on the right um was one of his greatest accomplishments even more so I think than destroying the Clintons because he's never really followed through with that and rather he's never prosecuted these people who are so outside the law. But he did peel back the mask of these globalist [ __ ] who who've had such an effect on our on our lives for so long. Well, he really meant it with the bushes. He hated them because they were wasps. He hates wasps, but he's also obsessed with them. I've talked to him about it many times. And he's obsessed with them. And he feels uh I mean the whole Mara Lago was built when he was denied entry into
49:11the BNT. Yes. Which is like totally been lost to history. They're directly across the street from each other. And he built uh he built his club. I was happened to be there. I was in Palm Beach. It was 85 or 86 something like that. We were staying with our friends there. you were there and we're, you know, having lunch at the bath tennis club and everyone's like, "Oh, this Donald Trump is building a club across the street for basically to give us the finger and no, we're not letting him or any of his friends in our club and I don't think they have to this day 40 years later." Um, anyway, uh, that none of that was ever reported by anybody, I'm aware. They focused on the flag,
49:50which was pretty cool. There were a lot of there were a lot of dynamics here going on that nobody ever wants to talk about. We just happen to have witnessed them firsthand, so I know exactly what this was. But Trump's resentment toward the Wasps was the driving force there really. And he was an outer burrows guy. Never felt accepted by them. Always wanted to be always bragging. I went to Penn like okay Penn you know like they never liked him. They never accepted him. And boy did he get them back. Yes, he did. And even to this day, I mean, six weeks ago, I was talking to him about this. His resentment toward the bushes and its ethnic and social. He acknowledges that literally
50:35upfront. No, of course not. But it's like, but he's very fixated on the Wasp thing and does talk about it a lot. I believe it. Yeah. With me anyway, it's always like, hm, what are you saying?
50:46Um, but whatever. I don't care. Ignore it. But u group in America that's kind of fixated on the wasps too. I noticed. Well, yeah, I've noticed that too. Equal fervor and hostility. Yeah. I don't know. But you know, you get what you put up with and they put up with it and like, oh, it's okay. You have a good point. Um anyway, but yeah. you know, he wanted to destroy the bushes because, you know, he didn't agree with their program, I guess, or he said he didn't agree with their program, but the real reason he wanted to destroy them was, you know, they go to the BNT and he doesn't. You don't think it was his anti-war position? I thought it was, too. Okay. So, let
51:26me say this is like one of the reasons I'm just so grateful to talk to you is because you were there and you saw a lot of the stuff and these details just get lost and you know some details are not worth preserving cuz like who cares but some of them really are at the center of the question like this is why things happened. Yes. And everyone lies about everything all the time. And you just want like somebody somewhere in the distant future to know what actually happened. Yes. Preserve the truth. Preserve the truth. That's preserve the truth. So I just want this to be a record of the truth and that you know status anxiety which is a huge driver of human behavior is it not? It's a
52:10huge driver of President Trump's behavior. Huge driver of his behavior. You know plays a role in all this stuff. These unannounced conflicts between groups for power and prestige and rank.
52:22These are big questions. Yes. Yeah. What drives human behavior drives policy in the end. Exactly.
52:28And so if you have the total displacement after over 200 years of the American ruling class by a new group, that's a big thing. Yes. But nobody says a word about it. And I'm not I'm not even taking sides in it that you know, obviously I have a side to take, but taking sides. I'm not taking sides in it, but like that happened. It happened over 40 years and now it's it's complete and like no one can say that that happened. Are you are you kidding? It's absurd. Yeah. But and but good or bad like by the way that is a story of history like groups displace other groups and there's reasons for that and survival of the fittest and all that. Got it. I'm not even decrying it. I'm
53:09just saying the fact that no one will acknowledge that that happened and that it had massive effects on everything and that it those resentments or aspirations drive behavior that has results that we see all around us like and no one will say it. It's really shocking. It is. It's I remember I was saying there was a girl called Katherine Rempel. Remember the Washington Post, but she was like a Fox contributor or something. Not impressive at all. But I was sitting on the set with her in a commercial break once. She was like a sort of liberal neocon type person but not smart. Anyway, we're talking and I'm trying to be nice and she's like younger person and I'm like, you know, where
53:48are you from? And I grew up in Palm Beach. You grew up in Palm Beach? That's sort of I know Palm Beach. Don't go there anymore, but I know it, you know, well. And um she goes, yeah, I grew up there and something about this or that. And she's like, yeah. And we moved there and my dad sued the Bath and Tennis Club for discrimination because they wouldn't let him in. And I'm listening to this.
54:11I'm like, he sued a country. Your dad and I, if I'm getting this wrong, I just want to apologize, but I'm pretty sure I remember this conversation like it was yesterday. This is 10 years ago. Yeah.
54:20He sued because they wouldn't let us in. And I'm like, not sort of not my job to tell you that these are private associations. Like I don't know what are you even talking about. like that's repulsive to me. A club should have you should have the right to hang out with whoever you want to hang out on whatever basis you want to make that decision. But she was like bragging about it and I was like the hatred behind that like the desire to destroy something that you didn't build was like so evident. This this girl's a hater actually. That's what I realized talking to her. Plus that she could be so unselfaware and understand that that is the most repugnant
54:55thing. Of course it dominates American culture now. It wasn't acceptable when we were growing up. I know. No, I'm aware. Anyway, um Okay. So, I just want to establish for people who aren't aware of all these dynamics just that they do exist and they're absolutely consequential and we're seeing their effects, but no one will tell us that. So, in your specific case, 2020 comes around, Trump is running for reelection, and I go over to your house. We lived obviously in the same neighborhood and you're wearing a shirt that says Trump reelect reelect the mfer. that you're wearing this shirt.
55:32So, I I'm establishing all of this just so people understand that you are not a fair weather Trump voter. Is that fair? That's fair. Could I actually give give uh thanks to Doug Davenport for that shirt? What a good man. What a great man. Yeah. Doug Davenport's a Washington figure who is like in the rare the tiny group. Yes. That you belong to of people who really were on the Trump program. Yes. supportive. What was it? What was the experience of wearing that shirt like at that time? Actually, you would you could get, you know, shot. It seemed like wearing that. I'm not a big hat guy, but I did occasionally wear my MAGA hat that I got from signed from Trump and his,
56:15you know, not very well attended victory party in 2016. Um, did you go to that? I did. Was there till 4:30 in the morning? I walked out. You were like an OG Trump man. You're my only brother. I didn't I I mean I knew that I saw you that night, I think. Right. Yeah, I had dinner with you. Okay.
56:34Yes. No, I had dinner with you. You were on Fox. I remember. Right. I was on Fox, right? I was like, what was I doing that night? I was sitting on a set with like grumpy Britt Hume and that guy from 60 Minutes's son Wallace. And they were like, I can't believe this couldn't happen. And I was like psyched. And everyone hated me for being psyched. But we had dinner. I totally forgot that cuz you're going to the Trump victory party. What was that like? Really? Really? Actually, it was one of the greatest things ever. We showed up. We went We went out to an additional dinner.
57:03I was with my wife. Went out to an additional dinner. Had a great dinner. Two dinners. Two dinners. Went to this wonderful French restaurant that no longer exists in in New York. Uh showed up at the this very sparsely attended uh victory party. And the best thing about it is it had a wall of televisions from floor to ceiling behind the stage. And it was an upclose uh picture of all of the assembled people in the um in the Javit Center, which is where all the Democrats and the victory Hillary party was taking place. Uh no one seemed to think Trump was going to win until of course he flipped Florida. Um and then it was a rockus party. It was it was
57:46actually Who was there? Do you remember who you ran into? Oh, I got almost got knocked over by the I'm trying to remember her name now. She was the female governor of of Arizona. Just plowed, just super hammered. Uh, do you remember her? I can't remember her name. I do remember her. She was a smoker. She was a smoker. She was a massive drinker. She was jubilant. People were jubilant. I mean, but like to go to the Trump party in 2016. No one even bothered to go. I ran into Kellyanne Conway Fitzpatrick or whatever she was at that point. Conway, I guess, that morning at like 5:00 a.m. on a set at Fox. She's the campaign manager. Oh, I remember. And I said, we're in the hallway.
58:24I'll never forget it right off off the set. And I said, "What do you think the numbers are tonight, and you always ask the campaign manager that like election day?" And she goes, "I'd say 45 43, something like that." There's a campaign manager telling me, I've talked to a lot of campaign managers on election day, like for since 1992 or whatever. I've never met one who didn't predict victory on election day ever. Ever. Doesn't matter. Plus, it's bad ju guu. I mean, your job is to demonstrate the utmost optimism even in the face of So, if you're campa And by the way, Trump thought he was going to lose, and I think he said that. He certainly said it to me,
58:57but I know that he I know that he believes he was going to lose. So, if you're going to the Trump party when the candidate and his campaign manager both believe they're going to lose, but you're at the victory party. We knew it was a snapshot in history. We did. I actually did think I know because you pulled our table. We had a table of about eight people for dinner and it was me and Caitlyn Collins to her credit. Oh wow. Two of us I think I think you said I think three of us out of like eight or nine people said Trump was going to win. It's kind of crazy this is going to like set off conspiracies. But you and I are having dinner with Caitlyn Collins on the eve
59:31of the 2016 election. I love Caitlyn Collins. I don't even I've never seen her on TV cuz I don't have a TV. But I don't watch her on TV either. I'll preserve my sweet girl. Well, I know you're not allowed to say that, but I thoughts of her in that dinner cuz she was she was riotist. She was a great girl. She's a smart girl. She's a great girl. I totally agree with that. Despite whatever she says on TV, I'm not even aware of it, but I'm haven't watched CNN in a decade. Hired her out of college and always thought so much of her. She's one of the hardest working people I've ever met in my life. That girl, I don't think she slept past 5 a.m. in her entire life. Like,
60:02she is a worker. You're admirable. I respect that. Yes, I do. Almost above everything. Anyway, uh so you go to the party. It's sparssely attended and then he wins. Then it transforms.
60:14Jeff Sessions was right next to us. I love Jeff Sessions. Me too. Good man. Great man. Uh t you know not tons but a few elected officials that I recognized from around the country. Not many uh mostly mostly Jan Brewer. That's exactly Jan Brewer. Sorry. Governor I think I prevented Jan Brewer from falling down. She fell into me and had full momentum and I remember pulling her back and she couldn't have been cheerier. Saving governors just not a grumpy drunk political superman.
60:43Hold on. Governor, it was amazing. In fact, not only did they not think they were going to win, it was really hard to assemble the entire team and the entire family. I'm assuming some of them were asleep. I have no idea. Once it was clear that he had won and the best part of this celebration was seeing in real time Florida floor to ceiling all of the self- assured really uh vindictive celebrities and other elected officials who had assembled to uh cheer on Hillary in tears. I mean just inconsol. So you went for the suffering that I did. I don't normally but there it was really hard not to appreciate. I mean, it was in technology. The sense of entitlement that the
61:25Hillary people had. It was it was crazy. It's her turn. She never done anything like Well, she had flown a million miles when she was Secretary. That was literally like her top her top talking point.
61:38I think she had a record of like zero achievement. Zero achievement, but really high self-regard. But the most benal observations about the world. Like I always thought that she had, you know, high feral intelligence, but I never thought there was any evidence that she had any abstract intelligence at all. Like conceptual intelligence, like she couldn't understand the world. She was too busy surviving. She was a survivor first and foremost. She was a cockroach. Like that way. You couldn't kill Hillary. I mean, we've been around since Hillary showed up on the scene. No. Been there the whole time. I ran into her in Riad. Yes. Sign two months ago. You think you were there?
62:16Yeah. No, I Yeah, she's still here with her beard. Hua. I almost ran into her. I I walked in and wow, Hillary Clinton. It's like right in front of me. She's like 4t tall at this point. Confirmation that she's still with her girlfriend who's married to George Zoros. I know. I mean, what a shame that is. Most people don't talk about that. They should. I know. I'm sorry. She's in public life. She doesn't have a private life. It's worthy of examination. Yeah. Sorry. I'm gonna I I'm gonna stick to my no outing policy. The only person I broken it for is Barack Obama. I just couldn't. I'm sorry. You know why I I did that? Because I I really don't think that you should
62:55do that. I feel guilty every time I call Lindsey Graham gay. I shouldn't be doing that. That is not the Christian way at all. The only reason I did it for Obama was because there was a guy, an accuser, and they arrested him and like tormented him and he like died in poverty and obscurity pretty recently. He was a very screwed up dude. He was kind of sad prison gay kind of guy. He was credible. He was absolutely telling the truth. There's no question about it in my mind. I mean, you know, it's he said, he said, but I don't even know if Obama's denied it. But it was Obama was on the down low for sure. Big time. And everyone's like, "Oh, how dare you say that?" Well, his
63:32biographer said that. Obama himself in a letter to a distant cousin of ours. I'm embarrassed to say we have a relative who dated Obama, but um which is like shocking, but anyway, I don't marinate on that. I know you don't. But anyway, in a in a letter to a relative of ours said, I you know, I I've considered being gay, but it's not challenging enough. It's like, did you ever write letters like that in college? I don't think I wrote letters to any men, actually. No. Did you write letters to your girlfriend being like, you know, I was thinking about being gay. Just think about, you know, this morning I was thinking maybe I should be gay. That's not not enough of a
64:11challenge. I would say about Lindsey Graham, it is fair game because that man holds somehow a lot of power over America's future and America's boys who fight in our wars, right? And he is No, I know.
64:28It's just I think we have to in our business or just in life fight against the tendency to judge everyone but ourselves for sure. And I think if you're going to tell the truth about other people, you should be require you should require yourself to tell the truth about yourself first. So cuz it's just so easy to be like, "Oh, they're bad. They're secretly, you know, sodomites." Okay.
64:51Well, we're all secretly something. So like it's just important to say that. Anyway, sorry. Um, did you say we're all secretly something, not all secretly sodommites? Sorry, just to clarify, no, we're not. I mean, speak for myself. There is a lot of that in the Republican party. I don't understand it. It's insane. Can't be accidental. Someone we had dinner with last night who's very wise said, "Demonic influences concentrate on those with power." And that is so clearly true. Believe that was my wife of 35 years who said that. No, she's a wise chick. No, that is totally right. Demonic influence concentrates on those who have power. Beware of power. Yes,
65:30that's why it's and those who seek power. Yes. No, that's that is tr that is true. It's a chicken and the egg thing to to screwed up people go in to politics and business or does the ex the reality of living near power having power is does that destroy them? I think clearly both. I mean they've done studies that show an inordinate amount of sociopaths gravitate towards elective office and also corporate power. Really? Yeah. Yeah. This past year actually they something like 60% or something demonstrabably sociopathic. Yeah. I mean if you're if you if you wake up every morning and say I am the wisest, I am the toughest. I'm the leader of all men and I can make decisions for
66:15other people. There's something wrong with you. I've never thought that one time in my life.
66:22I've never looked in the mirror and said, "You're a leader of men." I've suffered some delusions, but not that one. Not that one. I'm like, Yeah. Well, this is why I think this to myself all the time. We should require every man to have a mirror outside his shower. Yes. So, as you emerge from the shower every day, you see this lumpy, furry primate staring back at you, and you're like, weird for places. Can't take yourself too seriously. Yes. Amen. God bless our women tolerating and loving us despite that. There's this amazing exchange uh between Jesus and John and Jesus and Peter, excuse me, at the end of the Gospel of John when Jesus reappears
67:04and a couple of the disciples are fishing on the Sea of Galilee and Jesus has prepared this like basically fish barbecue breakfast. He's cooking fish over charcoal. And and and I don't understand a lot of what it means, but there's a one point at which Jesus says, "When you're young, you dress yourself." I'm paraphrasing, but when you're young, you dress yourself and go wherever you want. But when you're old, others dress you and take you where you don't want to go. And I know that there are of course theological meanings that I'm not probably not smart enough to fully that means a lot and I don't understand everything that it means. But on the most literal level,
67:40it's true that, you know, there comes a time for all of us when we lose agency. Yes. And autonomy and sovereignty and we're dependent on others and we're so reduced. I'm going to make you emotional thinking about it because it's the nightmare. Jesus describes it as a nightmare. By the way, he doesn't say it's okay. He's like, "This is bad. It's going to happen to you and it's going to happen to all of us." And I just think it's important to keep that everpresent. Well, it's a really good reminder to respect and love love those who are younger than you and those in your orbit to really pay attention to your children and your and your extended family. I mean, these are
68:17the people you'll be, you know, dependent upon when you're older. And we that is not a concept that you hear much in America. I mean, we move away from our family members. We move away from our parents when in fact we should be embracing them, learning from them, but also taking care of them. Yes. Absolutely. No, that is really smart. It must be by design. It doesn't happen by accident. Nowhere else has that happened. People leave. Well, I was watching Ben Shapiro the other day and he said, "If you can't find a job in the town you're from, where your parents are buried, where you spent your whole life, that's on you." Yeah. Move out. Yeah. Move out. Go somewhere else.
68:52Become a migrant. Like, who do you think you are? You think you deserve to live in the town you grew up in just because your parents are buried there and your grandparents built it? You think you have some right to that? Don't you understand the rules of capital of the globalized economy? Like who?
69:08Honestly, the gall. The entitlement. You should reap the benefits of that which you've worked for your entire life and that what your your ancestors have worked for. Yeah, man. I don't think there's anything that's upset me more than that clip. I I mean, his many attacks on Jesus, his calls for, you know, slaughtering populations, it just the bigotry, the cruelty of his program.
69:30I don't think anything has made me more enraged than that. Just the kind of like what you think you have a right to a community to a nation. Who do you think you are? This is a concept. Yeah.
69:46This is an idea. Yeah. Exactly. It's a really evil idea. Yes, it is. Is the truth and not sustainable as we're learning. No, no, not now. Of course, it leads to collapse which was of course the point.
69:56Yeah. Because it's animated by hatred. Yes. And people who espouse ideas like that are lying.
70:04They're not ideas. It's not a philosophy. It's not an ideology. It's an expression of hatred toward a population. And that's real. Like nothing's more real than that. So um anyway, sorry getting your field. Um I beg your pardon. Uh so but to Trump because I just think it's so interesting what's happened. So there are three elections for Trump. You vote for him in all three. Yes. And you do so not reluctantly but enthusiastically. And in fact you and you work for Trump. You write his speeches at the beginning. You know the people around him including his son-in-law. And and you you're kind of punished for it by your neighbors and by people you know. I'm sure you lose business
70:48for doing that. But you keep doing it. What's the moment where you're like, uh, I don't know about this? I'd had a few reservations probably during one. I thought actually early on I was confused that he brought in first empowered his son-in-law who I was kindly disposed to and thought was motivated by loyalty to Trump's program and to Trump. And then early on, you knew you knew Jared? I did. Yep. And corresponded with him quite a bit. met with him a number of times during the early administration. Uh, one of Trump's obvious uh Well, I met Jared through you, so I know you know. Yeah. one of Trump's obvious def deficits to anybody who was looking at him,
71:32even if you loved him for being an outsider, you knew that Washington was like a really complicated machinery. And you need people who are um well-versed in navigating it and make making it work because the federal government is just an enormous kind of out of control machine. And if you don't have people who understand the levers of power and how to propel your program forward, you will fail. and especially Trump who had a very adversarial Republican party. Weasels like Paul Ryan who had been elevated by Trump's victory and was newly the speaker of the house hated Trump.
72:08And so why would Paul Ryan hate Trump? That's a really good question, especially because he should have been really grateful that Trump was in power and thereby his power derived from Trump's success. But none of them none of them seem to feel that way. But Paul Ryan especially hated Trump. Yes. Yes, he did. What What do you think that comes from? I think he was a weak man and a bitter man. Um, and boy did he use his obstructionist power to the detriment of not just Donald Trump, but the people who had voted for Donald Trump. Um, so early on, Trump didn't take that seriously. One thing that made him super attractive was he was an outside candidate. He
72:48wasn't a politician. He was a businessman and he was there for a very specific purpose. And yet he came in and not only didn't understand how Washington works, he didn't take the appropriate measures to protect himself and his agenda. Uh instead he reverted to type and you know hired a bunch of Goldman Sachs people and billionaires and empowered his son-in-law who had been a Democrat until the day before. uh I think through the election he had been a Democrat uh and a globalist and so that was concerning and upsetting and then the country got completely overwhelmed by the faux controversy around the Russia stuff which was on its face absurd. If you knew
73:36anything about Donald Trump or anything about the campaign, you knew that not only did they not rely upon Russia for help, they had a hard time like coalesing their own power. I mean they were not an organized machine and that they were not allied with any foreign power and so that was insane but it occupied the country. I'm still quite bitter about it actually and people don't talk about it. Uh we've suffered so many humiliations on the national stage since that people don't focus on it enough. Um, but it paralyzed the country and paralyzed the administration. And I felt like Trump is responsible for that because leaders need to be able to delegate and they need to
74:17recognize where their weaknesses are and they need to account for those weaknesses and he didn't. Um, and he empowered a lot of people he shouldn't have empowered. So I was dispirited during the early administration. Um it was clear to me and anybody else who was watching that he was going to win re-election despite all the COVID stuff. And at that time we didn't know uh the details how complicit Trump was by empowering the pharmaceutical companies during CO how responsible he actually was for that offense that biological war against the country that he's supposed to lead. Um at that time I think most people and I was were sympathetic to Trump the position that
75:03he was in. Um and then when so it was clear that he was going to win re-election. I thought it was clear that he won re-election on election eve. I mean he was over the top. I mean the numbers were there for him. He won until they stepped in and and took it away from him. So and then I thought he acted crazily. I mean, who is who is they? The summer of love with George Floyd, which was obviously a complete scam. Uh, the man was killed. Uh, unfortunately, but he had had, you know, he' stuffed a bunch of fentanyl his ass and he was upright and forthright with the cops who showed up on the scene. The famous video started actually minutes before when he'd come out
75:46and come out of the store and he was sitting in his car with those two other people and he tried to pass the counterfeit dollars and he said to the cop, "I cannot breathe." Um, so it was clear that it was a manufactured crisis from the beginning. It was designed to divide America and it was designed to get rid of white cops. Get rid of white cops. Preparatory to whatever's coming next. Yes. Very much so. And the lefts, you know, Antifa hordes took over neighborhoods in America, destroyed statues, killed people, destroyed businesses, ran rampant all over the country, but also in Washington DC where Trump was president. Uh he didn't have any natural allies in
76:27the media. Of course, they distorted it. They lied about it. That was clear. But Trump is the chief executive. Trump is the president of the United States. And yet he failed to exercise his power and to quell the riots. He he failed to articulate what was going on. He failed to defend the law enforcement officer who was still riding in prison by the way uh who was wrongfully prosecuted and um you know obscured the original uh report that demonstrated that Floyd had died from a fenol overdose. But really he failed to exercise his power. Trump did. He failed. You allowed a riot outside his house. I called him at that time. Like, dude, you cannot allow people to set
77:11things on fire across from your house. You're the president. Uh like the oldest Episcopal church in the St. John's country. Yeah. Um so he he abetted that by weakness or indecision or whatever, it doesn't matter. He failed in his job to reassert power and control and he failed to articulate what was at stake and he failed to protect himself and his countrymen and his physical country. So yes, I was upset about that. Um and then he won re-election. He also he won re-election and was taken from him. that even his efforts to galvanize support throughout the country, uh, to direct the FBI to investigate, to direct the Department of Homeland Security,
77:56um, to articulate clearly that it had been stolen. He just kept repeating silly talking points that weren't that compelling and made him look crazy, but he failed to use the power at his hand. Um, and then of course it was taken away from him and he sold off into igniminy. He was was impeached but not convicted. And then he went off into the wilderness where he soon started raising an enormous amount of money. And my understanding is that he raised over a billion dollars during those wilderness years. And every time he spoke about it, it was all about Donald Trump's personal wos, which were significant because these people were not only trying to crush him legally and abuse
78:40the judicial system against him in in Florida and Georgia and New York famously, but it was all about Donald Trump. It was all about the Donald Trump suffering. It was never about the people that had gone there with legitimate license to protest against an election that was stolen from them, stolen from them in front of them. Uh these people were exercising their first amendment rights to speech and assembly and they were crushed by their own government and they were crushed by people within their own party and the other party. They were crushed by law enforcement. They were emedded by the military. They were vetted of course by the media and the
79:20corporate losers all over the country. So there was a a major headwind but Trump has the strongest voice in the country. Even then people listen to what Trump said. Trump could have an impromptu press conference wherever he went. Whatever Donald Trump said was worthy of listening to. So he had the biggest microphone in the country. And he never once utilized that for the benefit of the Americans who'd supported him, not only in 16, not only throughout the entire Russia nonsense, not only throughout the George Floyd nonsense, but through the election in 2020. That gave me a lot of pause. I was like, what kind of reprehensible human being would not? It's the most basic thing
79:59to protect your friends and in politics, your supporters, but anybody who's on your side and your fellow Americans. And he had a lot of power to do so. and he didn't exercise that power on behalf of anyone else. It was all about Donald Trump. So, there was a period. This is make you're making my heartbeat fast. Sorry, I was No, you're right. hadn't tapped into this emotion in quite some time. Uh, a lot of people are having this discussion now in the context of Trump's obvious betrayal of the American public. not just his voters, but the people who who thought 16, 20, and certainly 24 were absolutely existential elections and that there were there was no other
80:41person on the planet who could come in and write the ship, return sanity to our great country to save our country is like the last opportunity on every front. Like we're crumbling. We're we've got these enemies within. We've got these enemies all over the world who'd taken advantage of us during the Biden years because we had such a weak and incompetent and obviously joke of a presidency and all these people around Biden who had wielded his power in his name to destroy this country. Uh so Trump was legitimately the last hope in 24. Um but before that in 2021 22 in 21 and 22 when he was raising all this money and it was the Donald Trump you know victimhood show uh he had failed
81:31when it mattered to articulate what Americans were protesting during during January 6th to articulate that it was actually a conspiracy by the federal government abetted by all of these other big Yeah.
81:45I'm the one who put that those tapes out there. I don't know how it fell to me, but yeah. Yeah. I'm like some stupid cable news employee, right? You have you're just you're a truth seeker and Yeah, but I mean that's it. But you have no institutional power. No, it's like a dumb cable news show. Who cares, right? But but what's the point of having law enforcement? What's the point of having a military? What's the point of making if you can't rely upon them to protect the constitution and protect the Americans who abide by it and pay their taxes and work hard and raise their families and love this country and so Trump failed on a monumental level at that time. Um,
82:23did that was after CO. Now, you said something really interesting. You didn't take the vax. Thank God. Literally, thank God. Never once considered it. I didn't either. So, obviously, thank God. Um, but Trump did and encouraged everyone else to take it and then never apologized even when it became clear that the vaccine killed hundreds of thousands of people around the world. And this never really been studied in this country, but we can extrapolate and assume it killed I mean, it killed people. I know. Me, too. So, um I know young men now who took it who have myocarditis and other heart weird cancers. It was poison. Look at the cancer rates. Look at the fertility rates.
83:01Like everything about it was a boweapon aimed at us. Yes. And Trump didn't apologize for that. I don't know. All the things that I've just ignored or forced myself to ignore whatever. My flaws come out as I remember all of this and my shame emerges. Welldeserved shame. But anyway, Trump is completely absent shame about it. He to this day we'll still talk about the success of Operation Warp Speed which allowed these things to come to market which allowed the You know what he said to me? I actually raised it with him because I'm so upset about it. It's just killed too many people and it made too many women infertile and it's just the most evil thing ever and it's still on the
83:39schedule and it's so immoral. It's hard to believe this is even happening. But um he did exactly the same thing again. And it's my fault for not being like, whoa, that's a red line. I can't cross it.
83:53But he did the same thing he did on the Iran war. When I talked about the Iran war, you say, well, like, this is hurting all these people. He's like, you don't believe in the polio vaccine? Like, that was a good vaccine, don't you think? It's like, I guess I believe in the polio. I don't know. I mean, but that's not what we're talking about. Doesn't The polio vaccine is a totally different thing. I mean, I don't even know enough about it. Even though we grew up next to the Sulk Institute. Yeah. It's like, what does it have to do with it? You mentioned Iran. He's like, "Do you think they should have nuclear weapons?" No, I don't think not for nuclear weapons in general,
84:23but it was it nonsequiter designed to shut down the conversation. And the same tactic that's been employed by his political adversaries his entire political life. Exactly. So, it's like really, you're going to misquote, you're going to misdirect, you're going to Yes. dishonest. Construct a straw man. Yes. There we go. Well, you're an anti-semite. You're racist.
84:48If you think a rock should have nuclear weapons, are you pro-Islam? No, I'm an episcipalian. Leave me alone. I mean, what? I saw data yesterday that said 80% of Americans took the kill shot.
85:007 million babies have been compelled to have this shot this year alone. This year? This year alone.
85:07Yep. And every medical uh every Are you being serious? I'm being totally serious. every every uh new med student who comes out of uh doctoring school has to is compelled to take it. Hospitals are so bad. So, you got to commit an abortion and take the mRNA shot before you can become a doctor. Wonder why, you know, doctors are like the worst people in America. Um cuz they break them at the outset. Exactly. They make them complicit in a true crime. Yes. And once you're complicit, it's like you you can't join MS-13 until you kill somebody. You you can't be an OBGYn until you murder a baby. Then you're like in on it. You can't wear wear the Hell's Angel's patch until
85:45you shot someone in the face and got in gorrhea. Okay. No, it's so right. Um, yeah, there's almost too much. Sorry. Uh, you're you're working me up into a frenzy. Sorry. Me, too. I shelved some of this for Okay, so that's kind of my question. So, this all happens in CO. You're a COVID dissenter. You're an an honest man who believes in actual health. Yes. You're not taking the shot.
86:11your family's not taking the shot, but Trump is encouraging the shot and then is still encouraging the shot and they're still giving it out under the Trump administration. Was this a red flag for you or you just like, "Oh, it's too much. I can't deal with this." It's really so hard to keep track of it because at the same time, the entire world seems like it's crumbling all the time. Seems like we live during the Twilight Zone, during the Biden administration. Everything was like a daily offense. Like really, could that be happening? There are no adults around like no one's going to tearing down all statues to whites replacing them with like the judicial system has become totally
86:43corrupt and frightening. Exactly. Jury trial is like a nightmare scenario. Yeah. I mean, you don't have any peers left in America to try you. Jury of your peers. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh man. No, you're right. There's just a cascade of tragedy. So it's like hard to they got to earn a living at the same time and protect your family and your children while all of these offenses are going on.
87:07It's really hard to keep up. But when you start thinking about the things that Trump had done, especially when you're looking back now on the incredible not just betrayal, but his sense of disdain for the people that had worked on his behalf, for the pe people who' believed in him, for the people who had sacrificed so much. And it really, it's hard to know, hard to remember now, but it was only a couple years ago if you said you were a Trump administration. Uh if you were a Trump voter, Trump fan, uh people had license to like beat you up in public and take your stuff, smash you in the face, take your hat off your head. Like that was the prevailing attitude in
87:46America that was allowed to continue. Like law enforcement would never come to your rescue.
87:52It's like, oh, it's like the age-old thing. Oh, you wear a [ __ ] outfit so you're being raped.
87:56It's like, "Oh, you wore Trump paraphernalia, therefore you know that you're going out in public and someone's going to assault you." Like that was pretty much the law of the land during so many years. I think it's my perspective about it. Um Well, literally true. Yeah. Literally true.
88:13Yeah. Terrifying. So, um I didn't focus on it. And also, you know, it's a binary choice. Who was going to run this country? It wasn't obviously cackling cameltoe was not going to be entrusted with power. Who is cackling cameltoe? She's that uh was she on the ballot? I I actually voted in this election. Don't normally do it. I didn't I didn't see any cackling cameltoe on the roster.
88:38She was that Jamaican lady who you know was the AG of California. Yes, that one. And then she the woman who couldn't pronounce her own first name consistently. Literally three or four different pronunciations hammered all the time. And not in a good way, but her husband's like smacking women around and also probably on the other team, I think. So, I mean, I never But it was a joke and it was an in-your-face offense daily. Like, I mean, these are the people who employed Karine Jean-Pierre at the the White House podium, right? Totally forgot about her. I mean, we grew up at a time where serious people presumed to speak on behalf of the president of the United States.
89:22President of the United States was like had some decorum a ton. He was the daddy. You know, you you even if you didn't agree with the president of the United States, you kind of respected him. I mean, he's got all this in power invested in him on your behalf and every word mattered. Every word was parsed. And the people who spoke on his behalf were serious people. And my entire life they were serious people. It was like So maybe it's inevitable that you get once the patriarchy has been overthrown as it has been. Yes. You get a president like this who's emotional all about himself is perpetually the victim. Remember they used to say the president's most valuable
90:02commodity was his time. Yeah. That's the most valuable thing the president has. What does he focus on? How does he spend his time? He's got a finite amount of time. What does he focus on? And with Trump, you're like, "Oh, he's focusing on the iTunes background music for his his thing. He's focusing on the, you know, new arct to Trump that he's putting up at the end of Memorial Bridge.
90:25He's focusing on uh the ballroom." It's like, are you serious? Get real and get serious about your responsibilities. And he, no one ever says anything about that. In fact, these days I find this is a new phenomenon I've never encountered. You attack Trump on the basis of substantive policy decisions that he's made, betrayals that are obvious and quantifiable, and you will get people in your facing. How dare you attack the president? Are you serious? That guy works for me.
90:58That guy works for you. Yeah. Listen up, [ __ ] Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. No, your your opinion matters. My opinion matters. Every American's opinion matters. We should be heard. We should be respected. And no way am I going to be cowtowed and not not saying the obvious, which is this guy has failed in his responsibility. He is disdainful towards the American people. He's disdainful towards the people who put him in office and the people who sacrificed a lot real physical and economic injury to get this man in office. and to witness the vitrial and the moronic the moronosy and just the neverending me me and you're not with me I'll define what the program is now once I'm
91:42in office it doesn't work that way you define the program before you run for president people attach themselves not to you as a person they attach themselves to your program for their benefit and that's the whole point so yeah I'm mad about it so when what was the breaking point for you as someone who had a Trump bumper sticker, wrote his speeches, voted for him three times, wore the Trump t-shirt, wore the MAGA hat in Northwest DC. What was the point at which you and and who also has acknowledged that like for a decade attacking Trump, hating Trump, being mad at Trump were all kind of markers for attitudes that were anti-American, anti-white, anti you. Absolutely.
92:25So like for you to be criticizing Trump in public and to feel as vehemently as you do, you certainly justification. I think you've shown that. But to say it is another question. Like what was the point at which you decided like I can't I can't be part of this. Part of it is the the rebirth he had in 24. It was just the I mean you could discard as irrelevant a lot of the attacks on Trump because they became just like background noise. Oh, he said this. Oh, he even early on when he oh, he asked Hillary he asked the Russians to steal Hillary's emails when that clearly wasn't what he said. That was clearly wrong. Oh, he is and he's a white supremacist and he's never
93:09denounced these people. I mean, all of that stuff took on. It was such universal background noise that you'd be like, "Okay, you're absurd. Anybody who says something like that, you're just a liar.
93:18You're dumb. It doesn't even mean it doesn't mean anything." Um, but then legitimately upset about his failure to stand up for America and Americans during the George Floyd thing, his uh complete abnigation of responsibility with with January 6 political prisoners.
93:38Uh, but he pardon them. Oh, he did pardon them. He did. And that represented the first time that he'd ever stuck up for them. And when really mattered is when they were, you know, rotting in prison with no constitutional guarantees of a speedy trial or uh hygienic conditions or ability to eat real food or not being assaulted by cockroaches or, you know, prison guards who use them as sport.
94:04And it was completely not only allowed, tolerated, but expected, and even celebrated in the media and by Republican- elected officials, many of whom are still in Congress, by the way. Um, so there was that, but he yes, he pardoned them once he was in office, but my understanding from several people, I remember witnessing it at the time because I was upset that he said nothing on their behalf. Again, that's the power he could have wielded when he was in the wilderness. He could have talked about them first and foremost. He could have informed people about the conditions they were in and he
94:37could have supported them. But he also could have supported them with the huge financial cash that had been flooding in to him personally cuz he never stopped raising money. He raised an enormous amount of money in the wilderness years. And he spent not a dollar of it for the benefit of those people. Didn't pay for their legal fees. Didn't take out advertisements on their behalf.
94:56Didn't do anything that he should have done that anybody with a lot less resources would have done.
95:03So, um I forgot your question. Forgive me. Given all of that. Oh, but he pardoned them. I said, but he originally pardoned them. Yes. But it took an enormous amount. There's uh someone named Suzanne Monks who is was very active advocate on their behalf. Uh I think she's a wife of a fellow who was incarcerated. I may be getting that wrong, but she was dogged and persistent uh throughout all of it. And she claims now, and I believe it, uh, she's reminding people at the moment that the Trump we have now that has betrayed his base and well beyond his base, every other American who relies upon him to steward this country with
95:41sobriety and concern for them first and foremost and only. um that it wasn't easy to get Trump to pardon them, that she had to personally rally people, and you were helpful in this, uh to push his hand, to force his hand, to make it untenable for him not to pardon them. And so he did. I I did do that. I talked to him about that. I know you did. Yeah. Just on principle. I didn't you know whatever. But but you say on principle, it's principle that you have. It's not principle that Donald Trump had. You got to fight injustice. That's the whole point of leadership. Yes. Very much so. Is to help your people and to the extent you can. Like we're never going to defeat
96:20injustice. It's the state of the world. But you have to keep trying. Yeah. You do what you can.
96:24And he had a lot in his arsenal to do that. And he did it. And it's pretty easy as he's demonstrated to sign documents. Pretty easy. Pretty pretty easy to, you know, to sign executive orders, whatever power they have. But uh so it was it wasn't a lot of skin off Donald Trump's back to do that.
96:43uh he did the right thing and I applaud him for it just as I applaud him for closing the border. It's like those two things. I can't really think of many other things that he's done. Uh I can't think of anything else really that he's done. Um since he's been in office now for a year and a half.
96:59Um so he did the right thing eventually under great pressure and good for him for doing it.
97:06But he could have done it a lot earlier. He could have made a much greater impact for the benefit of those Americans who were not rich, who were not wellknown, who were motivated by completely reasonable and constitutionally protected outrage over what had been done to them. I mean, they are representative of America, not just Trump voters, America and Americans, the best kind of people, I think. and to see them. By the way, in the background, I know it didn't get a lot of news at the time. Periodically, it would. No time in American history has the FBI been rallied with such vigor and focus and uh economic empowerment like to go in and root out these supposed,
97:57you know, criminals. What had they done? They had walked on the grounds of the US capital, the people's house. Exactly. And then they gone about back home to their hometowns to take care of their children and their jobs. And they would have manhunts like publicized manhunts with, you know, 30 guys in SWAT gear and helicopters in their neighborhoods. Arrest the unarmed whites. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Meanwhile, all of our cities are crumbling and Washington DC was like a free-for-all for gangs and carjackers and people walking around with guns in public. You know, it's okay for the criminals to have guns, but god forbid there would be some hardworking taxpayer
98:33exercising his right in the second amendment and the first amendment. So, the two foundational freedoms in our country and Trump was unwilling to protect them in any meaningful manner until he signed their pardons. Again, good for him for doing so, but uh he still failed in that responsibility as far as I'm concerned. So, what was the breaking point for you?
98:55Really, initially it was the the attack on the attack on Iran initially last year when I guess we successfully eradicated all of their nuclear capability. Were you aware? Cuz it was still on. I'd heard that. It may still be on the the White House website because it was on there as even when we engaged in this latest war with Iran, this unnecessary what will be probably a forever war that will has killed Americans and is going to degrade us as a country. Um significantly already has. Um it was that and then it was his reaction, well his complete failure uh the first year to hold anybody to account for all of the crimes, the obvious crimes, all
99:42of the things that had been exposed from Russia to COVID policy to the January 6 stuff. I mean, all of that has been demonstrabably revealed to be the Capitol Hill pipe bombers. Capital Hill pipe bombers. uh all of the the Biden era corruption, the autopen scandals, the preemptive pardons, the the people who had abused their national security credentials and their their positions of power to hurt Americans. That is all laid out laid out even by his own intelligence officers. Tulsi Gabbard, you know, a year ago revealed that Barack Obama was directly guilty, I believe, of treason. And I don't know how you could say it any other way. A former president who advocated and financed and
100:29allowed his national security apparatus to survey and obstruct and take out a sitting US president who again is not a man. He is representative of the power that we invest in him as Americans. So it's not an offense against Donald Trump. It's an offense against you and me and everybody we know.
100:49Um, so his complete failure to utilize the information that he had at his fingertips and in justice department and by the way, US Congress, US Senate, three levers of power supposedly designed and at his disposal to enforce the law, to restore sanity, to hold people accountable for breaking the rules um to the detriment of our country and Americans. And he failed to do that. And then he attacked Iran. Then Charlie I guess there are many other things in between. But once uh Charlie Kirk was murdered, I feel like he failed on a tonal level. I don't feel that he displayed enough real sympathy or focus on finding Charlie Kirk's death. I mean uh killers forgive me and on
101:46solving the crime on using the entire apparatus the US government to solve this crime in a way that would allay people's fears of a conspiracy or other things going on. Donald Trump should have gotten up and given a press conference and said we are going to find out who's responsible for this.
102:03It doesn't matter what the what the end results show. We have a responsibility as a public figure who was publicly assassinated and we're not going to tolerate this and whoever is responsible for it is going to be brought to justice. And he totally failed to do that. I think he failed to articulate that and he failed to use again the apparatus that is entrusted to him uh to do that. And it's a huge apparatus, by the way, which while the rest of America is degrading and getting less effective, I think we have a very effective, very clued in uh surveillance and technology and well-funded US military and law enforcement apparatus that knows every detail about Americans at all times.
102:47They can reconstruct. They could tell, you know, if you were in the capital during January 6th through a whole variety of means, but your cell phone primarily. They know who was there. They know who's everywhere. They know where you are at all times. They can listen in on you, but they can certainly pinpoint where you've been and what you've done. So why wouldn't you utilize that power to the benefit of justice? Yeah. I mean, the director of national intelligence, the head of the counterterrorism center, like these are people who are appointed by you to root out corruption, um to, you know, fight back against foreign threats, make Americans safer. But yeah,
103:28defend our defend our citizens against not just attack, but foreign attack if there's any element of foreign involvement here, which it seems early on there was. Um, and then the fact that he Sorry, can I continue this answer only because it makes me so mad? The weird the weird dynamics surrounding Charlie Kirk's death, the investigation, the initial press conference held by the supposed head of the FBI, Cash Patel, who said a lot of nonsensical things behind that podium and no one has ever explained it. What does it mean? What does it mean to see I'll see you in Valhalla, Charlie? What is the significance of the number 33? What does that mean? I don't know. No
104:16one's ever been compelled to answer that question. But Cash Patel stood at the podium and made a very big point. He could have made a lot of points. First of all, they released they released video of the supposed killer, Tyler Robinson, jumping off like a 20ft uh roof. It was a very bad quality video, even though they had high quality video on an entire campus. They released this ridiculous like absurd like 1973 quality VHS tape video uh of the supposed killer. Uh they released all of his supposed text messages that detail all of the if you were looking to incriminate yourself, if you had gotten away with the perfect crime, then you inexplicably decided to write down everything,
105:00every incriminating detail of your crime. Um we're supposed to believe that he did that.
105:06We're supposed to believe that the guy in the crowd, George Zinn, who'd been in very various other hot spots like the Boston Marathon bombing and he'd been a witness at 911, that George Zen is going to just immediately erupt uh out of his seat, take his trousers off and run down screaming, waving his hand, saying, "I shot Charlie." Like within the first 30 seconds of it, right? Like you wouldn't if you wanted people to believe. Feels a little Jack Ruby. It does very much so. I was expecting him Tyler Robinson to be visited in prison by Louis Jan West. Yes, exactly. I pronounce you crazy. And then you have an inexplicable fastest acting cancer that kills
105:48you within 6 months. Oh, that's normal. Um, but sorry, back to the Cash Patel thing. The fact that he gave this press conference that was devoid of any re real detail that you would want in the aftermath of this public execution. Uh but then to emphasize things that seem so random and inexplicable like Valhalla. Who the hell knows what Valhalla is and why? How is it appropriate to this? Well, Scandinavians, we know what Valhalla is, which is, you know, it's the Norse Norse heaven. It's a it's a pagan understanding of heaven. Yes. Right. So, Charlie Kirk is a serious orthodox, you know, lowercase O Christian. He's like a real Bible
106:27believing Christian. Yes. He does not believe in Valhalla. He rejects Valhalla. Yes. Like that's a that's ridiculous actually to say that about a a Christian man. Valhalla. Yes. No. We're monotheists who believe in Jesus. There's no Valhalla in my world. Yes. Why would you say that? And no one's ever held him to account. He's never been felt compelled to explain that. Or the emphasis on 33. It took 33 hours to bring this guy to justice. And then he repeated it several times.
106:59I don't know. I literally have no idea. So everything surrounding it creates obviously unrest and disillusionment and anger. Can I say my favorite line? We we had dinner with Russell Brand at home last night. Obviously you were there and his line that you know the thing about lone gunmen is they always seem to assassinate people who challenge institutional power. It's kind of amazing. Your average lone gunman just goes out, who knows why, and kills people who are criticizing the people in charge. Maybe the people in charge should connect with the lone gunman community. Kind of like McDonald's and Coca-Cola
107:39got together. It's just like a natural partnership. Have they ever thought of that?
107:46So, I shouldn't be laughing about the murder of a friend of mine, but like it is the absurdity. I'm not laughing at the murder, but it's Yeah, the lone gunman. Yeah, that that's incredible. The lone gunman never take out anyone who's helping establish power. You ever noticed that? Oh, I have. You'd think they'd stop using the lone gunman. They've used him so often.
108:09Um, but it was the war that finally scrambled your eggs. Yes. And yes, the war, Charlie, and then of course the Epstein files. Oh, the Epstein files. Epstein files, the JFK files, the 9/11 files, all things that he had committed to showing to the American people who actually own it and have every right to know the details about that huge terrorist attack and and the assassination of our president. And obviously the Epstein network, which not only had a ton of victims, but obviously represented uh hidden power over our elected leaders. So Trump had committed to doing all three of those things. He's done none of them. But beyond just abdicating his power, he was
108:58uh disdainful of those. This is when he first started defining MAGA, make America great again as Donald Trump the man, like investing within himself in almost biblical fashion. Like no, MAGA is not what I articulated clearly and coherently for 10 12 years in public life and as president of the United States. MAGA is what I say it is today, tomorrow morning, anytime during the day because I'm Donald Trump. So I will determine what is MAGA. And further, if you consider yourself to be allied with this political coalition that I created over a decade, then um I don't need you. If you're insisting upon transparency and the things you're insisting upon
109:44me making good on the promises that I made to you in this, you know, relationship that we have, I promise you something. You vote me into office so I can affffectuate the change that you voted for.
109:58Then, uh, if you were insisting upon that, then you're a flipping cook and I don't need you. So, it was really at that moment when that was his response to the Epstein files. And then when he engaged in the most ham-handed PR stunt I've ever seen, which was great because it revealed how many fake paid for, you know, supposed influencers there are on the right, brought them to the Oval Office, gave them binders full of Epstein material that had already been in the public domain for a very long time and said that was the entirety of it. And then of course, because he's Donald Trump, he contradicted himself six or seven times. you know, this was Epste wasn't real. Epstein was a
110:42pedophile. He didn't have any victims. He got his elected officials out there to say those things in front of Congress. It's just laughable. And um and then of course he turned on Marjgery Taylor Green who I think of all the elected members of Congress represents in sincere hardworking fashion what it meant to be a not Trump fan but a Trump lieutenant. I mean, this was someone who was inspired by Donald Trump and Donald Trump's program to leave her successful business, run for Congress. Uh, and thank God for her because she got there and discovered what a captured institution it is, how flawed the individuals there are, how hostile they are to the American
111:32people who put them there, and specifically the Republican voters who put them there. And then to see Trump turn on her and treat her the way that he treated her was, you know, she's an individual and she's tough and she can handle it. But that kind of like repetitive crazy disloyalty and to treat someone who had actually put themselves to hard work to great effect um was unforgivable. I thought that's when I really started. She texted Trump and she said, "My son is getting threats because I've disagreed with you on the Epstein files." And Trump responded to her by text message and said, "He deserves it. It's your fault. People are threatening the kid's life." And Trump says,
112:24"No, no, no. You you you brought this on him. It's on you." That's disgusting. It's outrageous.
112:31I didn't know that. That's it's terrible. It's terrifying too actually to be so tonedeaf to be so evil but to also be so tonedeaf. So what and then the the war in Iran which he clearly you know had no plan for wasn't enthusiastic about at all. He was fully aware of the risks. He was fully aware that it was a betrayal of his explicit promises for 10 years not to do this. He did it he did it against his will. That's my highly informed read. Yes. I mean I could be wrong. you know, you don't know what people's motives actually are, but I mean, from very close vantage, I can say I don't think he was excited about it, but he did it. Um, clearly he felt he had no choice. So,
113:16and I think that's widely understood. Yes. Yeah. Uh, but I have no sympathy for him for doing that, right? I don't. Why? Sorry. Because he Yes. sees Donald Trump the man, but he's just one man and invested in him by all of us and you know 72 million American voters is an enormous responsibility. Here's a guy who had had demonstrable success in his life, had done a lot of things, accumulated enormous power and money um and has a big family. He's 80 years old. He's got grandchildren. I just don't have any sympathy for someone who is I do have sympathy for a regular person who is being threatened and pressured. Yes. Um so physical threats. Okay. So someone
114:08shoots him. They've tried to shoot him. Someone tried to shoot him twice. Um that's demonstrable.
114:15But his level of fear over that to me is not even I'm not sympathetic to it. It's not excusable.
114:24He is not just one man. He's the president of the United States. He even if his power is limited, as he's demonstrated, it obviously is limited. He does have the power to stop and hold a press conference and be like, I'm I don't know what it looks like, but he could say, I'm under incredible pressure from this outside force. Obviously, Israel is is exerting this pressure on him. um he could be forthcoming and straightforward about it and rally the American people behind him. People who not be so a lot of people know it. A lot of people are aware of it and they're upset about it and he should just acknowledge it and say, "I'm in this untenable position, but I'm no longer going
115:02to put up with it." And even if our government is thoroughly corrupted in in every single aspect of our government and there's this outside foreign power that is generating all this fear, there are some elements of the US government he could be using to his benefit to root them out for sure. It just requires him to have the fortitude to declare it. The other thing is No, can I just ask you a question? Yes. the that is one thing you learn from growing up in DC and just being around it a lot is that these agencies are totally corrupt and that the structure of them is just rotten and it's really hard for good people to have any effect on outcomes. Doesn't mean there aren't good patriotic
115:45intelligent people serving in every single one of these agencies. And you never want to say a nice word about CIA or DoD or DO or whatever they're calling it now, but any of these agencies, but it's just a fact that there are really good people motivated by patriotism who work there and they're not the majority clearly. They're not in control of the levers obviously, but they're there. Yes.
116:09And some of them have migrated over to the White House. I mean, they work there right now. I know them. So, and really smart. like, "Wow, I can't believe there's someone that smart works in the government, that patriotic, that pure of intent, like really good people. I can hardly believe it."
116:25I guess maybe it's just a numbers game. You you get 10 million people in a government like some of them are going to be outstanding, but they are. And like there's been so little effort to to find them, to empower them, and to the extent that they have been empowered. Joe Ken for example, they get completely destroyed. Yes. And then you have like people like Sebastian Gorka who I don't even know if he's an American citizen, but he's clearly like a highly damaged person, not a smart person, not a loyal American in any sense, and he's still there. It's such a daily offense to those. I guess
117:00what I'm saying is, and you would just know this because of the life that you've led, you could make a good faith effort at identifying those people. Of course, you'd have to go through there' be a huge fight. It was very, very hard. Yes. But you could try to find those good people, right?
117:15Yes, I would think so. That's my point. He could coalesce the true, legitimate, smart, dedicated Americans who were there who must feel impotent rage over what's going on. They text me. I mean, they're all like on the verge of resigning. Yeah. No, I know. Uh it's been hugely dispiriting actually that Joe Ken seems to be the only one who's come out publicly and on principle. Well, they're all making this calculation like the good people and there are a ton of them left in the administration including in the White House. There are good people. I just can verify that there are yeah with good. I mean they don't all agree with me on everything but that's okay. But their
117:54motives are pure. They're not there to get rich. They're there to serve their nation. And they're all thinking to themsel, the ones I have spoken to, which is a lot of them, like, well, you know, I'm I'm here. I can do good on the margins. Like, something will pass my desk and maybe I can have an effect. Like, God put me here for some reason. I should probably do my duty even if I hate it.
118:13Yes, they have to start thinking bigger picture. You may be right. You may be totally right. I'm sure they're siloed or whatever. And and I'm sure that's some comfort to know that they're being true to themselves and true to the country, but at some point it's going to take it's going to take those people actually talking to each other and saying enough is enough. I mean, I actually think we do have remedies for an outofcrol megalomaniacal, you know, destructive president. I think, you know, honest people who have that power should consider taking it. 25th amendment is there for a reason. It's not crazy to talk about it in this context. If if our country is is suffering
118:52great and lasting damage, which it seems to be, then sober minds need to come in and exercise what power they have for the benefit of all of us. Easier said than done, I'm sure. Right. Easier said than done, but I mean, it's certainly I think saying the truth, whatever you think that it is, is the first step toward redemption of yourself and of your country. Yes. Tell the truth. That's your number one uh duty. Can I say one other thing? Of course. I'm certain the fear of physical the physical threat is real. Yeah. Obviously demonstrated a lot. But also if it's shame, if there's blackmail material, as there is on so much of our elected officials, if there isn't,
119:34Trump, it's like, I'm sorry. You've demonstrated that you don't have any personal shame. I mean, you've demonstrated that a lot. You persevered through all of these accusations of disgusting personal behavior. How shocking is it really if there are pictures of you doing compromising things? Not very. And it doesn't even matter. Like actually, I hate the term, but sack up. Yeah. Like really, you again, it comes back to the obligation that he has, not just to Donald Trump, to everybody else in the country. Well beyond Donald Trump. Who cares? He can survive. So looking back being because I mean you and I and everyone else who supported him, you wrote speeches for him,
120:15I campaigned for him. I mean we're implicated in this for sure. Yes. It's not enough to say, "Well, I changed my mind." Or like, "Oh, this is bad. I'm out." It's like in very small ways, but in real ways, you and me and millions of people like us are the reason this is happening right now. Yes. So, I do think it's like a moment to wrestle with our own consciences. Uh, you know, we'll be tormented by it for a long time. I will be and and I want to say I'm sorry for misleading people in it was not intentional. That's all I'll say. But anyway, but the question does present itself immediately like what is this? Was this always the plan? You don't want to be a conspiracy
120:59nut, but like clearly there were signs of low character. We knew that. Yes. But it didn't.
121:04There are tons of people of low character who like outperform their character. It doesn't have to be sort of the norm actually these days. I say I've outperformed my character a lot. I don't have especially high character, right? But you know, you try to whatever you try your best. But um but what what what was this? Was this always the plan? You know, looking back after the last year and a seems like it kind of was and it's easy. Well, you could get really deep about it and say, "What was Butler like? How was it that he and Ryan Ruth?" I mean, he was subject to two legitimate assassination attempts. Have we ever gotten to the bottom? I know you've talked a lot about this,
121:46but have we ever gotten to the bottom? I haven't talked a lot about it. I don't know the answer, but I know that those investigations have been stymied. Fact. Yeah. Stymied from the very top from people who actually would have the power to get to the bottom of it. And the motive feeling.
121:59Yes. Very much. So, um, the enormous amount of money he got from Miriam Adlesen now seems it seems suspect to a lot of people at the time, but you know, there's a lot of money in politics to run for president requires an I mean, Cackling Camel toe went through $2 billion in 4 months. So, um, sure, there's an argument to be made that you get money from those who will give it to you. It's just the the nature of that game. But it's still reprehensible and it's still a big question mark.
122:31Why would someone who has obvious and demonstrated allegiance to a foreign power give Donald Trump $250 million while he's running for president? I mean, how is that defensible? It's really not. Um, if Russia had given a pack for Trump, you know, if the mayor of Moscow had somehow, you know, assembled an enormous amount of money and put it in a in a 501c3 for Trump's benefit, would that have been acceptable? Of course, it wouldn't have been. So, what does someone, it's so basic, comes back to the money, like what did they get in return for that amount of investment? And it's clear I get it. No, I mean, of course, I agree with every word that
123:13you're saying. I just think given his behavior and his demonstrated disloyalty and viciousness to previous supporters. Yes. Why wouldn't he display the same lack of loyalty to Miriam Aden? I mean, that's kind of the question. The only people he's been loyal to are the neocons and his donors.
123:39So he's attacked, you know, so he attacks Islam. Some of us stand up and say, "Probably shouldn't be attacking a religion." Oh, you're a Muslim. Secret Muslim. You love Muslims. No, just I like reverence. And I don't think you should attack people on the basis of their religion.
123:54Don't attack the religion. Yes. Um and all these like evangelicals are like, "Oh, you see you're a Muslim." The next week he attacks Jesus. Okay. Cuz it's all connected, right? Clearly. Of course.
124:07Yeah. well beyond money obviously. Well, but the one person he's never going to attack is Rebi Schneerson. Yes. And uh you know the Habad leader who's passed but who I'm not attacking by the way um but who was regarded as the Messiah by many of his followers. I don't think Trump should attack him to be clear, but Trump would never attack him. That's the one Messiah he will never attack. So like what is that? Tell Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong. No, it's totally cool to attack Jesus. Oh, it's a joke. I'm a I was saying I was a a doctor. I heal people. Well, that's what how Jesus described himself. By the way, you're still you're attacking Jesus.
124:47Yes. No. Demonstrabably so. He did obviously on a Sunday. You're attacking Jesus on a Sunday. It's totally fine. But we all know and again I'm not asking that he attack Reben. He should not. But he never would. He'd die first. So like what? Can you tell me what that is? Gosh, I wish I knew. I wish I knew. But I know, but he should be called to respond. I agree. Yeah, very much so.
125:10It makes no sense. Um although it's revealing as you're indicating. Plus, Trump is a totally secular human being who never held the Bible, didn't put his hand on the Bible. Obviously, that's an offensive statement right there that should have been. He's the only person in the United States who's never put his hand on the Bible during his inaugural. Yeah. What the hell is that? I don't know if that means he's a secular person. And I think it means he's got a different religion. No, I'm saying he had been perceived as a secular individual. And clearly there's So where does this go? I wish I could answer that question. I don't know. I don't It doesn't seem
125:52like we're getting out of Iran anytime soon. It doesn't seem like the Straight of Hormuz is going to open anytime soon. It doesn't seem like BB Netanyahu is going to allow us to achieve peace.
126:04Doesn't seem like American power is getting any any stronger. Doesn't seem like the American people are going to stop suffering anytime soon. I think at some point, I mean, there are mechanisms for dealing with a with a government that's not responsive. I hope it doesn't go there, but it does if you People are upset, man. I've never seen anything like it, actually. Is that true? Oh, people are outraged. And why wouldn't they be? I mean, do you don't and you at this point, I mean, given your views and your name and your life, like you're not hanging out with liberals.
126:38You've never hung out with liberals ever. You're the least liberal person, American li liberal.
126:48You literally carry a gun and smoke unfiltered cigarettes and I have one. Oh, of course you may. And sleep in bed with dogs and like the whole thing. Um, so it's not you're not coming at this from like you don't have a lot of friends who are Starbucks baristas, right? I do not. Right. No. Although I do share I mean I wish I kind of wish I'd listened. The evidence was there that that Trump was not didn't have a stable footing and wasn't What are the by the way? Let me ask what is that even still sold in this country? Camels they're very hard to find. They're very expensive especially in a world where tobacco is quite expensive.
127:25Those have been made continuously since 1913. These came I think every American military man up until Vietnam had these in his in C-rations. Yep. Uh General Blackjack Persing Yes. cabled back from France to President Woodro Wilson and said, "Send more camels. We will win the war with these."
127:50A friend of mine right before this interview, great guy named Paul Leslie was uh sent me a rider from Frank Sinatra, one of Frank Sinatra's conf uh concerts in the early '8s and it was a rider stipulating all of the various things he needed in the back room. It was like, you know, specific chocolate, specific booze, and it was two cartons of Camel Straits. Isn't that great? You've been smoking those since you were a child. Mhm. How do you feel? Empowered. I really do. I do. I feel so much better. I've been back on them. I left I let them aside. I never thought I was a quitter and I left these behind for a decade and a half. Is that
128:34true? I did. I love nicotine, but actually having the physical having this in your hand, being able to exhale, being able to It's an amazing taste. It's unrivaled taste. It is that that's the brand I smoked my whole life and it's just a it's a great cigarette. By the way, it's a lot lighter than people believe. Yes. Lucky Strike's a lot tougher. Actually, I agree with which our father smoked. Yeah. Is a strong cigarette, but um no, that's not a strong cigarette, especially a smooth cigarette. Yeah, I totally agree. Flavored with chocolate. Um same formula pretty much. I think we'd have to call RJR to find out, but it's no different than I the one I smoked
129:13in 1982. I think I was 11 in 198 good cigarette. Um, so anyway, sorry. But my only point was, and I think it's obvious to people watching this, you're probably not hanging around with a bunch of, you know, non-binary Kla Harris voters. So most people, you know, voted for Trump and strongly supported him very much. So how do they feel? I don't know a single person who doesn't feel betrayed, left behind, upset, hostile, freaked out about the consequence of this. Yeah. I mean, it's not a small thing what we've done. I mean, if you're if the president of the United States is not just your I don't think of my protector, but he's the protector of the country. He represents
129:58the country. That's correct. And that's his sole job. actually one job, one job, one job only is to husband the resources that you have that you were given. And he's failed on every level, but he's also degraded what we have, what we had, and was already under attack for so long. Um, so it's unclear what's going to happen. Uh, but I've never seen, you know, I'm 55. I've seen a lot of what could have become unrest. have never seen more fertile ground for real unrest than what we have now. Especially with the advent of AI, the current economy, our debt, and you know, the prospect of more Americans dying in a country they can't find on a map and fighting a fight that
130:44they can't articulate, don't understand, and don't want. So, you got to wonder if that's accidental. I mean, like, if you wanted to destroy the country, this is exactly what you'd do. Well, the entire program for the latter half of my life has seemed designed to weaken this country, to divide people, to make them less happy and more enslaved. It does seem that way. I, you know, I don't I don't know that there was like a meeting at Bilderberg or Bohemian Grove or whatever. It's so precise and so overwhelming and so universal on every front that it could not have been accidental. These are not just Yeah. You wonder if it was a conspiracy of of instinct. I mean, when
131:31the George Floyd thing happened, I was confused as to what was going on because I'm lit literal.
131:36I mean, I'm against, you know, obviously vandalism and rioting and hate the whites. It's just like that's just a no-go for me immediately. But I didn't understand its purpose. I didn't understand its scale. Like, I just didn't get it. I was mesmerized by what was happening in Minneapolis outside the convenience store, right? And the New York Times ran a piece, I'll never forget it. And in it, they quoted some art critic from New York, like from the West Village or something. It was literally in New York. And he said like two days in, he goes, "This is the revolution."
132:12It's like people, certain people tuned in to the frequency of destruction of evil. Yes.
132:18Like they recognized it immediately just like they recognized Trump immediately as a threat to them. They've neutralized that threat somehow. But um I guess but anyway, they could feel it. And this art critic whose name I can't even remember, but he's he was celebrating it. I must say he was celebrating Oh, absolutely. He was absolutely celebrating it like cuz but he knew that this was more than simply about the death of some guy trying to pass a bad hundred at a convenience store. This was a reordering of American society. We're going to get rid of all the white cops because we need to do that in order to something whatever. I mean there's some reason why
132:54they wanted that. And you effectuate peace. Yeah. No, probably not. Um anyway, protect the women and the children. Protect the women and the No. To destroy. That's the point of evil. Of course.
133:06So, uh I don't know maybe these are unknowable questions.
133:13It's can't be it can't be um it can't be a confluence of random events. It is clearly by design. It's clearly been a long-term plan. That's just obvious. Last question. Do you given the attitudes you've described like total contempt for people who supported him, total reverence for or unwillingness ever to criticize people who are clearly opposed to the United States? Do you feel personally threatened? I think the backlash that we're going to see in whatever comes, I mean, the reaction from the lunatic left is going to be overwhelming. They may be disorganized now. They that's the other thing we didn't talk about is that Trump's coalition that he put together he had
133:54so demonstrabably and definitively spanked shamed uh destroyed the left destroyed I mean the level of dispiritedness and disorganization among the left in November of 24 and December of 24 I mean they didn't engage in any kind of retrospective or they didn't try to figure out how they could represent the country or the party or fix the problems. Of course, they never do that. But we're going to take this opportunity to help black people since we love black people so much. We're going to we're going to spend our years in the wilderness trying to elevate black people. They didn't do that. Never occurred to them. They'll never do that. But they'll never do that. But
134:35what they did do was uh they recognized that their political fortunes were dashed for some time to come because it was obvious. It was obvious that Trump had a total mandate to do the things that he had been, which is obviously why people are so upset that he didn't grasp the nettle and do what he said he was going to do because he had such fertile ground to do it and he had both houses of Congress and he could have actually accomplished a lot more than just signing executive orders and closing the border. God bless him for closing the border. But why hasn't he, you know, expelled the 50 million people who are here illegally? Why are we still importing people? And they're announcing
135:10now we're going to import more people. We're going to give citizenship to the illegals that we supposedly were going to deport. Now we're giving them citizenship. It's absolutely obscene. Um but but people don't talk about that enough that he the the way forward was really rosy and it was a rebirth of America in November of 24. People felt that and the left was crushed definitively.
135:35And now we're, you know, several months from the midterm elections. It seems very clear that the Republican party hasn't delivered anything. Trump delivered a war and delivered higher prices and delivered misery. Um that's demonstrable that and unless it's a corrupt election, which of course it will be. Um the Republicans are going to lose power. Trump's agenda, if there is one, is going to come to a halt. And the left has if anything a very long memory and they are vindictive planners.
136:08um they are not you know reactive they are they are reactive but not effectively so they're effective planners and they spend a lot of time thinking about this and the retribution they will use retribution Trump was accused of you know planning retribution it would have been actually justice he never made that point though he should have um restoring order and restoring justice to the system the left is going to be vicious and it's going hurt a lot of people at a time when probably not Trump 80-year-old Trump probably not probably not Trump's family either which is something we haven't talked about because the focus that he's had we talked about
136:48you know he's focused on arches and music but he's really focused on business for Trump and the Trump family and they've conducted a lot of it and they've amassed a lot of wealth on paper but also a lot of real assets and real cash and uh they're going to be inoculated ated and none of his supporters will be. So, Uncle Buck, thank you for having Buckley SP. Carlson, thank you for having me. I love it. I love it. I will see you in Maine. I love it. Thank you.
Read the essay version →