0:01You got the laptop out, it must be serious.
0:04>> It is. Everything is serious. I don't want to I don't want No, I don't I do have an if I go missing file, but >> Oh, you have an if I go missing >> I do. Do you know how many people I piss off?
0:13>> Who are you worried about?
0:14>> Um, I mean there have been multiple people in my in my >> Is it round with Schmon Schmombs?
0:22>> No, no, no, no, no.
0:23Um, no. If I if I open it up, it's it's probably very interesting. I'll probably go date back to some people that I'm like >> Now how does that work? So that's a dead woman's switch, but like how does it go off? Is it like a Google Doc that says read me if I'm dead?
0:37>> I basically told my husband even I told my daughter she's 10.
0:42I was like, if anything happens to me there's something in my computer you just open it up.
0:46You give it to the police. Yeah, it'll it'll basically give you a bunch of options as to who it could be. I even have notes in there that says like, you know, I I the only drugs that I'll do are or and and mushrooms. So if you ever find anything else in my system it is it was not me. Like >> Stick with D, if you might be something else.
1:04>> I mean, I'm just saying like it's I spell it all out for you. Like I've done this and I've done that, but I would never do that.
1:11>> You strike me as the kind of woman that does not leave any T's uncrossed or I's undotted.
1:16>> I I'm a little forgetful sometimes I should say or I shouldn't say forgetful, sorry. I'm overwhelmed with with things.
1:22So um Yeah, I try not to. I I try my hardest.
1:27So I'm the one waking up in the middle of the night writing things down. Or putting it in my phone. Yeah, you know when you're thinking and I'm just like, if I don't do this now or yeah, write this down I'll forget. So >> I remember you you ever see the show Mad Men?
1:39>> Of course.
1:39>> All right, amazing. So you remember maybe it was like season 3, I forget his name, but the the the one guy on the team had the idea in the middle of the night with Elizabeth Moss.
1:50>> Yeah.
1:51>> idea ever." And he's like, takes his whiskey, falls asleep, wakes up on the couch, he's like, "OH MY GOD, it's gone."
1:57>> It's exactly >> I had the best idea. And I I saw that and I was like, "Bars. That is a sign. I need to record anytime I think of something."
2:06>> You really do. You have to. And and it's Yeah, so I definitely Yes. I am I write things down. I I try to leave no stones unturned in my life, but yes.
2:18>> Do you Do you leave like a handwritten thing behind, too, just in case the digital goes kaput?
2:23>> I haven't I haven't done that, but I have >> You're going to do it now.
2:26>> I mean, I I have high hopes for the cloud. I don't know. I feel like, you know, if they if they can if they can get text messages and and emails and court from 2009 and prior for certain cases, I think they can pull my, you know, >> Yeah, isn't it funny like how much they just yank out in discovery in any of these cases?
2:46>> Right? There's no one who doesn't say something that can't be taken out of context from any year or any month or any week and any time.
2:52>> 100%. I mean, I I would say don't put anything in writing that you don't want a judge to read.
2:58>> That's the thing, man. My My buddy Dylan used to have this quote in college. He was like, "If anyone recorded our conversations, none of us would have jobs and me would be in jail." And I'm like, you know, you could probably take anything out of context there and that would be true.
3:12>> Totally. And I I say that as I say don't text this stuff.
3:17I should really be listening to my own advice based on the memes I've been sharing lately, so.
3:22>> That's all right. Yeah, it's a very memeable time.
3:24>> That is, right?
3:25>> run by satanic psychos, so you might as well just enjoy the ship on the way down, right?
3:31>> Yeah, I guess so.
3:33>> Hey guys, three quick things. Number one, if you haven't subscribed, please subscribe. It's a huge huge help. Number two, if you'd like to join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes, you can join via the link in my description or in the pinned comment below. And number three, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make content from the show and make money, you can join via Discord link in my description below.
3:54>> But you're you cover a lot of different stories. I'm sure like we were just talking for a half hour before you got on here about just a bunch of different cases all over the place. I was holding in a lot of questions, so we'll get to it. But, you know, right now the soup du jour >> Mhm.
4:06>> uh if you might call it that is these 11 currently 11 missing scientists. And I do say that in air quotes because we'll cover some of that stuff. If people didn't see the episode Deep and I did last weekend where we got into some of the details of some of the people, not like you though. You know, some of them are not actually scientists, but they have access to things. So, I think it's important to like make those distinctions. But before we get to like the who, what, when, where, why, and what's going on, like how did you get into this story? How did it befall that now you are in the words of Jesse Weber, the
4:37internet expert on the missing scientist.
4:41>> No, no. I I mean I I I don't think that I am, but what really, I guess, captured my attention was General McCaslin going missing. I I I don't want to say it it's it's it'll sound like um I'm I'm sick, but like I enjoy a good investigation.
4:58And and I say that respectfully, of course. I don't want anyone to go missing, but I was baffled by this. And then, shortly after that, it was revealed that someone connected to him, Monica Ræza, went missing 5 months prior. And so this those two were the actual proven connections here, like on paper.
5:18>> Right.
5:18>> Um that they overlapped. Basically, General McCaslin, he oversaw government funding when she was at Pratt & Whitney.
5:25And I don't know if it was multiple projects, one project, but, you know, that's a government contract.
5:30>> Pratt & Whitney?
5:31>> Yeah. So, basically, she was a rocket science there. Rocket scientist, excuse me. Um and she, you know, it's her her trademark is available. She co-patented these burn resistant um just metal alloys. So, she is very smart and she knows a lot. General McCaslin, I mean, talk about he is more credentialed than pretty much anyone on the planet, I want to say.
5:55>> made no sense. Like going through his resume, I was like, "Holy shit."
5:59>> Uh insane. And so, you know, you hear more about McCaslin, you hear through his wife he was experiencing some mental fog, some brain fog, but nothing crazy.
6:10He was still with it. That's one of the reasons he wanted to retire. And he maybe he was a little frustrated by that, but he had a lot going on. He was He was consulting, you know, and he he was an avid hiker. And I actually heard from some local sources as well that he also he would always hike in an Apple Watch or wear the Apple Watch. And the day he went missing, they're not really talking about this, but he he wasn't wearing his Apple Watch. And that's interesting to me that the Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office wouldn't kind of put that out there.
6:38That, you know, don't you think that that's kind of important? They're just saying, "Oh, his cell phone wasn't with him." He You know, he didn't wear his glasses.
6:44Um They're leaving out certain pieces of information, but they don't owe us anything, right? I think we have to keep that in mind. Law enforcement, unless we're in imminent danger, they're they're only going to tell us the basics. Um And this >> that that is some level of incompetence, or do you think that there could be something more sinister there? Like they're being told this little sheriff's office, this is way above your pay grade.
7:07>> I don't think that I don't think that the FBI, who joined the investigation early on before the White House got involved, by the way, for General McCaslin, I don't think that they're going to tell Bernalillo County anything. And I saw a video clip from another journalist. He's great. He's a Nerdy Addict. He is in the area, and he basically asked uh a cop, I mean, he was just he was in a squad car, what he thought. And I thought the cop's answer was really irresponsible.
7:39>> What did he say?
7:39>> He He basically was just like, "Well, it's kind of fun to think of your theories type of thing. It was just strange. I was like, you're a cop. You can't talk like that. And he said, and I I called the sheriff's office yesterday actually, and I was like, do you guys have an update? You have not put out an update since March. I specifically want to know about the Air Force sweatshirt that was found a mile and a half east from General McCaslin's home or his neighborhood. You know, they said there was no blood on it. His family and friends couldn't identify if it was his or not. Do we know anything about that?
8:10And he just said we don't know anything.
8:13I kept pressing. They they wouldn't tell me much of of anything. So, at this point, General McCaslin and Monica Reza, their disappearances are the strangest to me.
8:24The absolute strangest because they vanished into thin air, and it's very important by the way, when you're investigating these cases to go to those locations. I have not done that. So, I >> going to do that?
8:37>> I we we will see. Um I I would like to.
8:42So, I've been looking, you know, the the Mount Waterman area where Monica Reza disappeared.
8:48>> Can we pull that up on a map, Keith?
8:49Just >> And by the way, where she disappeared, I mean, it is hundreds of thousands of acres. But, we know her last coordinates. We know where her hat was last found. And I have spoken to sources that knew her who have searched month after month after month. I mean, they've been searching since June.
9:10Nothing. I I don't get it. And and And Neil Neil McCaslin, that area also very isolated. If you're familiar with the area, it's very easy, I I have learned, to just sort of slip away and into nothingness, and it it appears that's what he's done.
9:29>> But it's the leaving, as you said, it's the leaving stuff behind.
9:33Like he took We now know he took one gun, but no Apple Watch, no phone, no nothing.
9:39>> Right. Uh and you know, with the gun, all we know is that it was missing. No one's actually seen him with the gun. You know, there is a a still image of Steven Garcia from the KCNCC, also in New Mexico, not a scientist, a nuclear official.
9:54>> Mhm.
9:55>> He is seen walking away with a gun.
9:57There is a gun in his hand. With Neil McCaslin, again, you know, on the initial 911 call, his wife was asked if there were any weapons missing, and she's like, "I can't really tell just from looking." Yeah, in the safe, but then after the fact, officials said, "Yeah, there was a .38 revolver missing."
10:16She also said he specifically changed his clothes before he left. I don't >> she know like what how did she describe that?
10:22>> Well, she basically said, so she was going to a doctor's appointment uh in the morning. And so she saw him like deliberately change his clothes before she left. And then a repairman came, apparently, spoke to him. I mean, from what we know, everything was fine, but I would like to to find this repairman.
10:42If you're listening.
10:43>> Come on, repairman.
10:44>> If you're if you're out there, I said this before, if you are out there, please, I mean, it's really important, I feel like, just for for profiling, you know, you got to talk to these people.
10:52Um and yeah, and and he just apparently walked out the door and and the the Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office has asked neighbors, and and neighbors, by the way, they're you know, it's kind of sparse over there.
11:05>> But video footage, anything. And I I feel like it might be similar to the Nancy Guthrie case, where there is footage, but we just haven't seen it.
11:12They're only releasing pieces of it, if if anything. Because I go back, they don't have to tell us anything, they don't owe us anything.
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12:51>> Yeah, the one parallel I'm thinking of, and this would be if it turns into a situation where they actually find out a perpetrator or find out what happened or find out and find a body, something like that. But like if you remember the Kohberger case, same kind of thing, smaller sheriff's office out Was that in Utah? Idaho. Idaho, sorry. Yeah, the Idaho the the Idaho four. But, you know, smaller sheriff's office for 6 to 8 weeks, whatever it was, they were being viewed as completely mishandling the case, not telling people anything what was going on, and then they ended up tracking the guy across the country
13:28and got him. So, like, I don't know if it's like ends justify the means kind of thing, but you would hope if we're seeing a similar pattern here, it ends with the same kind of well, at least we get some sort of conclusion and know where he went or something like that.
13:41>> Well, and I think that's the biggest thing is is when you don't have a body, it's it's wild. Just because it it's you would think that I mean, there would be a kidnapping of some sort when you don't have a body. I I that's where my head initially went without being too much of a conspiracy theorist. I was listening to a former FBI agent Chris Swecker on Fox, and and he said something along the lines of, you know, it's not completely out of the ordinary for individuals with highly classified information to be kidnapped and tortured for intelligence.
14:18And it doesn't necess- necessarily have to be our government, right? I'm not saying, "Oh, it's the deep state." It could be a foreign government, but we we just don't we don't know enough. And so, saying that out loud sounds insane. I realize how insane that sounds.
14:32>> sound that insane anymore in 2026.
14:34>> Yeah. Yeah. And and and again, I am not saying that that is what's going on. I don't have definitive proof of that, of course.
14:43>> Pure spec.
14:44>> Pure wild speculation. Um wait, why are you smiling like that?
14:49>> thing.
14:49>> Oh, we're pure spec. Yeah, okay. Is that why you guys like shared like a little like >> Yeah, that's the tagline.
14:56>> thing. Yeah, okay. Okay.
14:58Sorry.
15:00Um that was cool. Uh anyway, now I'm all I I've heard you say that before, but I You guys are cute. Um >> Thank you.
15:10>> I'm going to get [ __ ] for saying that you're cute.
15:13Cuz that's going to that's going to sound condescending, and that's obviously not what I meant by it.
15:18>> at all. You're You're like so self-analytical. It's so funny.
15:21>> Well, when you're a female and I feel like in this industry, it's it's wild the comments that you get. Um I I hear >> and stuff or >> Um everywhere, I would say. And people will say, "Don't read the comments.
15:32Don't read the comments." And sometimes it's hard when you're like if you're on X, you know, when you get notifications about, you know, I've had to turn X like I've had to turn it off. Um I I hear just about Oh, she's so annoying. Uh the craziest thing someone the other day had commented um I've never gotten filler in my life before, but I just have so much filler in my face. And I'm like, "This is crazy." Like the people Someone said, "Oh, I I need to I I I think I laughed really loudly and my mouth was open." And they were like, "Wow, I feel like she needs to brush her tongue."
16:04>> Oh my god.
16:04>> My tongue is totally brushed. I I literally am like I don't know if it was like the lighting, but >> reading the comments.
16:09>> I'm sorry. Okay, thank you so Thank you so much for saying It's so easy. And like I said, it's between notifications, if I talk too fast, if I laugh too loud, if I say, "Oh, you're cute." It's like anything and everything. I I have to just You're right. I have to just >> If I took my comments seriously or if you read them, you would assume I was Joseph Stalin.
16:28Like you'd be like, "It's him in second form, alien hybrid of Joseph Stalin."
16:33But like that's just how the internet is, you know what I mean? They're Like people say weird things. First of all, half the accounts aren't real and the other half are just [ __ ] So you just got to >> No, you're right. I read an article that many of them are are just rage bait bots. And so I don't ever really respond. I mean, every once in a while I'll just be really tired and I'll have one of those moments and and you know what? I've noticed >> Listen up, buddy.
16:56>> I've noticed every time I do that, I never feel good about it. I never walk away being like, "Yeah, I told them."
17:02Someone on the internet, a stranger is really going to listen to me. I really made a point there. Like no, I never feel good about it.
17:09>> Yes.
17:09>> Do your friends respect what you do?
17:10>> I think so.
17:11>> There you go. That's all that matters.
17:12>> Yeah.
17:12>> That's it. The rest of it's all gravy.
17:14>> You're right. You're right.
17:16>> Anyway.
17:16>> So you are cute. There you go. I I I stand by it, okay?
17:19>> No, I was like we were fist bumping.
17:21That that was very nice. But, what were we saying pure spec about again?
17:24>> Uh about >> if they were picked up by the deep state or something like that. And again, it is totally pure spec. I'm just saying it's like First of all, that stuff does happen sometimes, but in the past it might have been like, "All right, we're going there a little too soon." But, now it's like we may not be saying that's what happened, but the fact that that is on the realm of possibilities is not crazy at all considering all the ways we're seeing how the world works now that we previously didn't know before January 30th.
17:48>> Yes, I I agree with that. And I I just can't I can't get over just how much I have learned in the last I I want to just say the last few years. I It's troubling. It's troubling and and it's scary.
18:07Um it really is scary. You you grow up thinking that the president and the government they are they're just heroic and they would never let anything bad happen to anyone, right? That's you know, you're taught that from like the third grade on basically.
18:23And that's just not that's not the case.
18:26And I know that the Trump administration they really ran on the whole we are transparent, right? We are this transparent government. We want to be different. And it started with the Epstein files. And I feel like, you know, there's a a part of there the let's say the generation behind me. I'm a millennial. Gen Gen Z.
18:49They felt like they were lied to during COVID, right? I feel like a lot of people felt like they were lied to. And then, you know, they voted for Trump.
18:56They They wanted this transparency. And they Bondy and Trump get in and they're handed these [ __ ] binders. And all of a sudden, it's like, "Well, what what did we vote for if if we're not if we're not going to get transparency?" And then, you know, you have to ask yourself. And I I'm sorry I'm going off on a tangent here, but >> We love that.
19:13>> But what has what has changed since releasing the redacted files? The Epstein files, right? They're so heavily redacted from from what we need to know. I mean, who's been arrested? What what have we learned and what have we gained from them releasing these? Absolutely nothing. We have gained nothing. There's been one arrest, Prince Andrew, but that I'm not attributing that exactly. And I'm not attributing that to, you know, what's been released. It's just It's frustrating. It's It's incredibly frustrating and for the people still, you know, pounding and saying, "We want the fi" You're never going to get them. You're never
19:50going to get what you want. And the victims or survivors of Epstein and the other men who abused them and women. Um and women. Let me say that without going too far. Um >> That's true.
20:05>> They don't want to come forward because they are scared. Because I think that's the the, you know, I think some people kind of say, "Well, we could just talk to the victims. They were They were there. The survivors were on Epstein Island. They were You know, they know who was there." They're not going to say anything. They're not going to say anything.
20:21>> A lot of them are dead, too.
20:23>> And and that. However, I I firmly believe that Virginia Giuffre I I do believe that she killed herself. I think um some of her statements prior to her death, the whole, you know, I have 4 months to live. I had a deception um expert and statement analysis expert.
20:40His name is Jack Fox. He's great. He analyzed that and I mean, he just deep deep-rooted depression throughout that entire statement.
20:48>> Yeah, first of all, Virginia was extremely brave doing what she did throughout her life to really keep pushing on that. And secondly, again, you oh, especially with this case, especially now, you always want to believe the absolute worst thing, and people are right to be suspicious about that. I I have to say I I've said this in the past, but I think a lot of people missed this. It was probably only once in a previous episode, but you know, after Virginia died, there was a the Tara Reade Paul Mary came out and commented something on her death that went completely under the radar that is really pertinent. And what that was is
21:25Tara Reade Paul Mary, a long-time journalist at a bunch of different places, she did these podcasts in 2020, one on Maxwell, one on Epstein, and they were basically like documentary podcasts, extremely well done. I've always talked about those. People should go listen. But she went around with Virginia. Like, you know, like a tag team, and they were going to all former people that Virginia knew who either worked for Epstein or were around Epstein and stuff like that and trying to get interviews with them, some of whom they did, others whom turned them away.
21:53But Tara said, "Virginia was a friend of mine, not just a source, and so she confided in me, and there are things that I totally kept in at her wishes that now that she is deceased, and now that her family has decided to release some traumatic photographs of her in her final months, I do feel like I should say this." And I, being Tara in this case, speaking, she said this on Twitter. She said, "Virginia, her husband beat the [ __ ] out of her."
22:24And, you know, it was a awful relationship and all that. And so, do with that what you will.
22:32But, you know, does it does that definitively mean she killed herself?
22:35No. But do I do I actually think there is a strong chance that in that case, where we've seen a lot of fake suicides when it pertains to the Epstein case, do I agree with you that there is a strong chance that she may have there? Yes.
22:48>> I Yeah, and it's that's so heartbreaking. And And what resurfaces is a Twitter post she made from 6 years prior saying she wasn't suicidal. Well, a lot changes in 6 years. She had a heartbreaking life, and if you look at just the legal process that she has had to go through for how many years telling what happened reliving that? I mean, can you imagine? I cannot imagine. I don't think the average person really can comprehend what that woman has has had to go through for for so long or had to go through.
23:17>> The bravery that she cuz it it and any abuse is horrific in all its forms to be very clear.
23:26I don't mean to like put it on a pedestal, but if that's how this comes across is how it comes across. She was dealing also with the most powerful people in the world.
23:35And to go at that again and again for a while at the beginning like slightly alone in a lot of ways until it got momentum and I understand that completely. You know, why other victims were afraid to come forward and then eventually like through her bravery some other people there were people in the past who had and then the volume got up because she kept pushing once the case was pushed under the rug and you're right. I don't think any of us could ever imagine what it's like to be in those shoes and have to deal with that every single day hanging over you.
24:10>> No, I I really can't imagine and you know, not to to pivot too hard, but I think about this during you know, missing persons cases. I think of Nancy Guthrie and you see you see the online fodder about just the internet analyzing everything that the Guthrie family does, right?
24:30Well, why is Savannah the only one talking? Well, why did she return to work? What it's like oh my gosh, we are living in an ass-backwards world where somebody is a legitimate victim and people are coming at them saying that they're not doing things the way a a victim should. It's like unless you have been in the position where your family member is missing, you don't know. There is no right way or wrong way to act and I say that you know, respectfully, of course. There are certain red flags, right, that you can point out. If a a wife goes missing and the husband gets married the next week, obviously, we can say, "Okay, I'm
25:07going to judge that, right?" There are certain things I do feel like are okay to judge without sounding too hypocritical. But, when it comes when it comes to this type of thing, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, everybody just needs to sort of, you know, just calm down a little bit." Because I I just can't imagine if that was me.
25:24One of my children or or a family member is missing, and then all of a sudden, people are are just inspecting what I've done on Instagram for the last, you know, the last 5 years or or whatever.
25:35It's just it's so strange. It's so >> that is that makes us like not only be so interested in a lot of these cases, but make certain people, a certain percentage of the population, want to actively be Sherlock Holmes and maybe be aggressively Sherlock Holmes in a way when it comes to judging all the people involved on any side of the issue that they're looking at?
25:57>> I mean, I think, obviously, more and more people are interested in in crime and true crime, as as you mentioned. And I don't know. I I think a lot of people are just secret narcissists and just so self- self-obsessed. Because I can't even tell you how many times, like, you know, a case will break, and it's a tragic case, a heartbreaking case where somebody is brutally murdered, and the comments are just like, I'm sorry, you're going to say I'm obsessed with comments, but they're just like, "I told everybody this was going to happen, and and nobody believed me." And it's like, "What? This is not about you. This is not I'm glad
26:30you were right, and I'm glad you can sleep better, but what what like, okay."
26:35>> Yeah.
26:35>> Um and and thanks for telling us.
26:36>> Again, I say this respectfully, because, you know, when I first kind of came onto the scene, I was very quick to jump, very quick to speculate, very quick to make uneducated decisions on things after really only hearing maybe one side and an emotional side, let's say. I have learned so much in the last 4 years that I just, you know, I look back on some of my work and and we all grow, right, as people, but I just cringe at some of it and I just >> Oh, yeah, it's normal.
27:06>> It's normal, right? Okay. This is good therapy.
27:08>> I cringe at [ __ ] I did yesterday.
27:10>> Okay, wait, me too. I'm just >> I'm just like numb to it at this point, but it's still like, uh, why did I say it like that? Oh, did it really say >> No, I that makes me feel better, but >> I think but I think that's a really good trait to have. I think people that are like that all was perfect and I haven't made a mistake like you probably suck if you're doing that, you know what I mean?
27:31You should be self-critical and, you know, that doesn't mean you need to be like the bots in the comment section who are questioning, you know, the positioning of your head in a video or something like that, but you get what I mean? Like from the skill perspective of doing your job, putting all the case together correctly and trying to do right by what the case is and like you raise a good point.
27:50These cases, regardless of what they are, they are in the public interest.
27:55People are fascinated with some of them.
27:56Perhaps some are more anecdotal and it just becomes more like people get locked into the story and then others are more consequential for all of us, like an Epstein case or potentially like a missing scientist case. And it's a funny dance like Dave and I actually recently have talked about this more behind the scenes, too, cuz like we do a conversational comedy show here, you know, like we have a good time with people. We know how to be serious in certain spots of a conversation, but also like find a way to have fun with life and keep things light. Like that's what my whole life has been, so it would
28:28be no different doing this job. It's the best part of it. But like the balance of having comedy and entertainment while also covering a very serious story with very real victims like say an Epstein or this missing person's case as well, missing scientist case as well. Like it's a constant dance worth thinking about and judging like, okay, we just like when we do our episodes together, you know, all right, we just talked for 95 minutes. Where was it right? Where was All right, where do we maybe need to pull the joke there or where could we add in a joke cuz we were being too serious? It's a weird dance cuz you want
29:04to be respectful of everything, but at the same time in order to inform and also get the conversation started like you got to you got to entertain.
29:11>> Yes, I I agree and I think for me it's I don't have to entertain quite as much, but I think that when you jump from tragic case to an even more tragic case, you have to remind yourself not to be a robot and that, you know, these are real people. This is not just news that you're covering and and you know, with the missing scientist for example, I mean, I'm reaching out to family, to friends. I'm I'm not making crazy progress, but enough and you know, I had a phone call with Karl Grossman's wife last week. He was the Caltech astrophysicist that was murdered on his porch.
29:49>> Yes.
29:50>> And I mean, I almost by the end of the phone conversation, I'm almost crying, but I'm trying to like just keep it together because I just had to ask her. I'm just like, my god, are you still are you still in that house? Like have you and she's like, yeah, I'm still here.
30:04>> It was like two months ago.
30:05>> Yeah, and I'm just but I'm just so heartbroken for her. I am so heartbroken for her because even on the phone, I'm telling her stuff about the case that she doesn't even know about, okay? Yeah. So, and I don't even know everything because this case it's California, Los Angeles is horrible when it comes to court docs. You actually have to either write letters and then they mail you back a letter where you have to like put a check and it's insane. It's insane in 2026, yeah.
30:34Or you can go pick up the documents at the courthouse, which I can't.
30:37>> Someone's got to pay for Gavin's [ __ ] >> I mean, yeah. So, so you know, with that being said, I have submitted a request here, but if you want to just get into his murder >> Yeah, so actually right before we do that, I I'd want to get your thoughts on this because when Dief and I were trying to categorize this the other day, we did it in the following way based on the 11 that are missing, and then I'll come right back to Grill Marin and let you expand upon that. But, it's like at the bottom in a category of one, we had the Nevada scientist Jason Thomas, and we basically you know, rule out as a strong word, but
31:15we have strong doubts that he's in any way related. We can talk about that later. There's a whole backstory there.
31:20>> I get what you're saying. Yeah.
31:21>> And then, the next category, also kind of alone, is the plasma physicist from MIT, Lonnie Lorenzo.
31:28>> Correct. Nuñez, yeah.
31:29>> Nuñez Lorenzo, yeah.
31:31All working on serious stuff, but it's like very separate, and >> Separate, but I have questions.
31:39>> Okay, we'll come back to that. I have questions about the shooter, too, cuz it's wrapped up in a nice bow.
31:43>> Correct. Oh, oh, we're on the same page.
31:45Okay.
31:46>> Then, you have three non-scientists from two different places, two from Los Alamos, one from the Kansas City nuclear, whatever the [ __ ] >> Yes.
31:55>> And none of them again, were in any way scientists or mathematicians or something like that.
32:01One was even Cassias was an executive assistant.
32:04>> Yeah.
32:04>> Another, I believe, worked on HVAC. That one's still a little confusing.
32:07>> Steven uh uh Chavez.
32:09>> Yes. And then, Garcia was basically like a chief security guy at the Kansas City place.
32:16>> Correct.
32:16>> Meaning, they all they were all confirmed to have, based on the desks they sat on, they were required to have a high-level clearance.
32:23>> Except for Melissa.
32:24>> Melissa did not have any kind of clearance.
32:26>> And not that not that I have found.
32:28However, when you go to independently verify workplace information at Los Alamos KCNSE, almost Wright-Patterson, I try impossible.
32:38>> All right, we're going to come back to that. That's interesting. So, they had their own category. I kind of marked them yellow, like could be, I don't know.
32:44>> I got you.
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34:10Some exclusions apply, see site for details. And then, there was Eskridge who came out separately, which we recorded that in the day following her coming out, so we were able on we recorded Friday night. Deef and I were able to look more at that Saturday, Sunday. You've really been looking at that, so we will get to her in some detail, cuz there's some things there that are like, I don't know.
34:35>> Yep.
34:36>> But then at the top I have one full category of five, because they're all tied to the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, but they're in tiers, right?
34:46So, we have Grillmair, we're going to talk about that in a minute, where he's killed on his front porch. It's sketchy.
34:51You had a chance to talk with his wife.
34:53She had some interesting things to say.
34:55Then you have the two guys who died quietly. One I forget their names.
34:59>> Maywald and Michael David Hicks. I'm I'm a no for them, just saying.
35:02>> I think you might be right on that. They both worked on very serious things. One of them literally overlapping with Grillmair when it comes to looking at exoplanets and liquid on those planets.
35:11However, they die. The only things we have are that they die without a cause of death.
35:17>> is I don't know why people are saying that. You I've I'm on the I have the medical examiner's website in Los Angeles right here.
35:24>> So, we're going to we're going to come back to that. I've probably ruled them out.
35:27>> okay.
35:27>> But at the top of that pyramid are the two you started off with, which are McCasland and and Reza, because they have a lot of overlap and they disappeared. They're not known dead. And man, did they work on some serious [ __ ] So, it's almost like this case is being blown out of proportion on one hand, because there are a lot of like loose ties being made to conveniently wrap it in a bow that's nice for a headline. And then at the top of the pool, you you kind of go from like yellow yellow yellow oh, red, right? So, that's kind of how we had it. So, let's it it's perfect you have Grillmair, because he's
36:07like the fifth on that tier of five.
36:09Let's >> go. Let's start with him. First of all, if you wouldn't mind, just for people that didn't hear episode 411, where we did talk about like what exactly happened. Can you just rehash what happened with his murder and what happened 2 months before his murder?
36:23>> Yes. Yes. Um, so And originally, by the way, this was clarified by his wife cuz I even misreported this at first. So, in December of 2025, a man that we now know as Freddy Snyder, he's 29 years old. We don't know much about him. We know that neighbors in the area kind of said he was sort of unhinged, um, but he was on Karl Grimm's property with a a a rifle of some sort, an AR-15 of some sort, and originally, it was reported that called 911 for someone trespassing on his property, but that's not the case.
37:00His wife said he actually went out and just kind of started talking to him. And he just, you know, they were talking and then he went back up to his wife and his wife was like, "What's going on?" And he just said, you know, he's he's kind of odd. He mentioned something about coyote hunting, but apparently when Freddy Snyder got down to the driveway, there were two cop cars waiting for him. And so, I guess per Karl's wife, Louise, the cops asked Karl if he wanted to press charges, trespassing charges, which would be a misdemeanor in California. And he just said no. And, you know, his wife just said he was the
37:36nicest guy ever. He would have never wanted this guy to get in trouble. He thought he was weird, but, you know, whatever. Now, in the area of where he lives, which is Llano, California, and this is really important. Again, I go back to these locations, right? It's pretty isolated, and his wife confirmed this, but she also confirmed that in the area, within like a mile or so, two other people worked in aerospace research. I, just for their safety, I'm not going to say where they work because, you know, whatever.
38:06>> Um, I thought that was super interesting, but, you know, Freddy Snyder gets booked on a felony weapons charge, okay? I'm looking at his his booking information, and if you want to go to LA Mag, um, I have a whole article on Karl Grimm alone, where I sort of screenshot some of this stuff and um he was he was just released on his own recognizance that day upon being booked for a felony. And by February 5th, the prosecutors just completely dismissed the case. And now because I don't have the paperwork yet, I have you know, I've requested this. I don't know the judge and I I don't know the the prosecutors,
38:48but I did email the LADA's office and I'm like, "Can you guys give me some more information while I'm waiting? Any kind of comment?" And they just said, "No, we don't have a comment on this."
38:57Um I mean, all I could find about this is that he was released under California Penal Code 1385, which is a provision that just allows a judge to dismiss or reduce charges, quote, "in the interest of justice," meaning he didn't have a criminal record perhaps, but that's all we know right now. So >> really know anything about him.
39:17>> No, there's he has like no social media presence. I mean, nothing that I could really find. Um and I I have his booking photo, which is is also interesting because uh you know, Los Angeles and it's just funny just they rarely release booking photos, right? You have to jump through hoops to get these unless you're David the singer and in that case they'll they'll literally put it out there for you, which was shocking. Um so I I do have his booking photo um and I I uh put it in this in this article.
39:45>> Can I see it?
39:46>> Yeah.
39:50>> Seems like a nice guy.
39:51>> Yeah, um I mean, yeah, who knows? So >> He's 29?
39:55>> Yeah.
39:55>> Years and nothing. He's a nice guy.
39:57>> I know, right? I think it's the beard.
39:58Um but he so he yeah, charges dismissed February 5th and then by February 16th he goes back.
40:08>> Did he have an attorney appear for him in court?
40:11>> So he has not been arraigned yet. His arraignment has been pushed back. He's actually in Twin Towers.
40:16>> No, I mean before. Like on when the charges were dismissed had did he have any attorney listed to his name?
40:21>> No, because it No, not nothing in the nothing in the docket. Um >> Interesting.
40:26>> That But, you know, I'm I'm sure he had a public defender with him because you pretty much are are assigned one unless you want to say that you're you're pro se. But, again, I was surprised that his arraignment was pushed back till April 29th, which kind of led me to believe that perhaps maybe there is some kind of uh NGI plea coming, not guilty by reason of insanity. And in order to do that, you do have to be, you know, evaluated and and on, you know, both sides. So, I, you know, I don't know, but he came back and and shot him. And I don't know >> Two months later, yeah.
41:04>> What was this, February 19th?
41:06>> This was the 16th, yeah. Um No motive that we know about. It's really strange that he was released and then came back and killed him. But, his wife has said she thinks it's silly that everything is being sort of grouped in like this.
41:22>> she say it was silly?
41:23>> She just said, you know, he has nothing to do with the other people. Like, I have no idea why anybody would say that.
41:28Like, she was He was just murdered. Um I mean, she didn't say like he was just murdered.
41:33I'm saying that, but that was sort of her her tone. She was very dismissive of it. Um but >> It's just interesting. The guy has all his charges dropped on February 5th, you said?
41:44>> Mhm.
41:45>> And he had been let out on his own recognizance back the day he was arrested in December.
41:49>> Mhm.
41:49>> So, he's been floating around for 2 months, then the charges get dropped, and then 11 days after that, he goes back to the original place where technically this all started in a way.
41:59>> Yeah.
42:00>> And blows Carl away on like what was the crime scene?
42:04>> the torso.
42:05>> He just walked up with a gun. Did Do we know anything? Did he say anything?
42:09>> Carl was on the porch, so if I had to guess, which I I don't know all the details. This is >> Yeah.
42:15>> pure spec.
42:16Yeah, pure spec. But, I would say Freddy showed up and Carl was probably like, "Oh, this guy again?" Probably came out onto the porch and got shot.
42:25>> Is there a ring camera?
42:27>> I requested all of this information. And And listen, the chances that I get because I requested I basically, you know, I sent them the two case numbers, right? So, I'm thinking I will get information from the first case in December because that's closed. Carl's murder I may not get info on because it's an open investigation. Yeah. So, at least I'm hoping I can get the 911 call from the first one to see if I can piece anything together here. And his wife was so kind. She said I could reach out to her again.
42:57>> How'd you get in touch with her in the first place? You just call her?
42:59>> Yeah, I just called her.
43:01>> How long did you talk for?
43:02>> Um 5 minutes or so, 6 minutes. May Maybe longer. Like I said, I feel I feel bad because it's so fresh and it's so, you know, I mean I I even said like, "Do you mind if I call you again or text you? And if you want, I can even keep you updated on things." And she said, "Yeah, that would be great." So >> So, but she And And this is This is one of those places where you try to be really careful because again, these are real people. This is a real grieving widow. Her husband has freshly just been murdered. It is you know, it's probably not fun to open up the internet and see that a bunch of people
43:39are [ __ ] talking and speculating about it. Unfortunately, it's been pulled into a story that that now the White House is talking about. So, it is in the public domain. That is what it is.
43:50I have seen in the past though, and this is where it's a weird dance.
43:55Families, grieving families who are upset and the priority is obviously the fact that they've just lost a loved one immediately do try to rule out or say, "No, no, this had nothing to do with such and such and then later it's like, oh that probably had something to do with such and such.
44:12>> Yep, I >> And that's not their fault, but like do you think that it's a possibility that even though she's ruling this out, she for very good reason by the way, hasn't had a chance to see that there maybe he did know someone or there was something he worked on they never talked about or things like that?
44:31>> For Carl Grillmair, no. No, no, no. I think that is entirely possible though respectfully for Susan Wilkerson McCaslin. So, Neil McCaslin's wife. I think her shutting down all of this being connected to something larger.
44:51Again, respectfully, I think that might be what you just said. For Carl's wife, I don't. I >> What makes you say that?
44:59>> So, I guess without sounding too crazy, it is sort of a I think I'm good at reading people. I think it at this point, um I I felt like I was reading her. There was an intuition I had where >> Yes. And it's it sounds nuts. It was just something about her voice, something about her tone, the way she was talking to me.
45:23It was almost also like she I mean she was happy not happy to talk to me, but she wasn't put off by this phone call.
45:31Um which I would just be so annoyed if a reporter I mean I you know, that's why it's like sometimes you just hate your job that you know, and and I think initially looking at some of these cases, it it took me a day or two to work up the courage not or just the balls I guess to be like, all right, let's just get it done and call these people. Yeah, you know, because you do. I've gotten cursed out on the steps of a courthouse before where I went in the car and cried after when I was, you know, in Oklahoma for a case and I had to approach a grieving fiance and it was so embarrassing and it was just and you
46:06feel not that it's like yes, the embarrassment is a part of it, but the way you feel inside like a total piece of [ __ ] when you're doing your job, but you're also trying to tell the story of this victim, right? You're trying to and and this was me doing development for a potential documentary. I worked in development briefly and for certain crime cases and that's when they basically send you out to just do research and try to get people to sign on to work with you and I is the same thing. I'm like, well, got to talk to him at some point. So here it goes and it was he was not happy.
46:41>> It's hard it's it's hard it's a weird I'm not jealous of that part of your job.
46:45>> Well, yeah, it's yeah.
46:46>> You know.
46:47>> Yes.
46:47>> But and and yeah, like you've done this for so long and if you've done so many different cases, I do think there is something to be said for the fact that you can be on the phone with someone and kind of get a feeling. I also think that it's very possible that someone legitimately like not even just as an instantaneous shut down reaction, someone legitimately thinks there's absolutely nothing there and has every reason to believe there's nothing there, which by the way, she may be 100% correct. I'm I lean towards the wife being correct here. I am just asking questions on this. It's like, >> Yeah.
47:17>> you know, even just reading her, yeah, she might totally be telling the truth and then maybe later we learn, oh [ __ ] he really knew this other guy too. And if that's the case, then we change our opinion.
47:26>> Yeah, totally. I I agree with that. I I just think that that for Carl, I think it's a little different, but for for the others like Neil, I I think there might be something more there.
47:39>> Yeah, the the fact that there's and maybe we can then tie this into the MIT physicist in a second cuz you'll see where I'm going with this.
47:49The fact that it's just seemingly abnormally unwell for lack of a better word maybe kind of crazy person doing it >> Mhm.
48:02>> with no motive. On the one hand, it's like, well, unfortunately, that is what people who are unwell do sometimes. They just for no reason hear voices in their head and they go kill someone.
48:11>> Right.
48:11>> That's very real and a lot of the percentage of the time that is what it is.
48:16It's no different in the percentage of the time with this case when we're looking at statistical probabilities.
48:20However, people's heads do go to like, "Man, he targeted them."
48:25He was there. He he talked with them.
48:29Didn't do anything. And then came back and as far as we know, just blew them away. And it's like, of all the people he could have done that to, it's a remote place.
48:40A guy who happened to be working on that [ __ ] You know, this is where people are like, "Ah, could it It's convenient he didn't have a motive. It's convenient he's [ __ ] crazy. Could it be, you know, some [ __ ] MK Ultra guy or something?"
48:53>> Yeah, and we don't we don't necessarily know if he had no motive or if he's crazy. It sounds like he's crazy. Yeah, it does. He also was arrested for a carjacking the same day that of the murder. So, >> That's important.
49:07>> Yeah, yeah, no, really. And so, I just go back to like, you know, it was a very isolated area.
49:15Why was he there? You know, why was he on this property? Right? Like, why did he specific specifically go back to this property?
49:24I mean, It's just it's Yeah, it's it's annoying to think about that not having these answers. And I'm not, you know, I don't even know if annoying is the right word. I'm just like, I want more information. It's like, it's driving me bananas. And same with the rest of these cases. And I will say, I hate when this happens, but they are starting to keep me up at night because I just I like I don't I don't like that.
49:48I just want to go to sleep. Just let me sleep.
49:50>> You're just thinking about it. I mean, that's the part that you take the job home with you cuz these are active things going on. I understand that. Do you Did you talk with his wife at all in the 5-minute call about his work or the nature of it?
50:02>> Not really. Um I think that I think that we can get there.
50:08Um her and I I think I think we can.
50:10>> But no, she >> Yeah, no.
50:13She you know, she talked more about him as a person. Like he was so smart. I mean, and you know, like many of these guys. Like I mean, to a point that I I will never truly understand or comprehend, but she just said he was so smart and so kind. Um and he was very very well-liked.
50:33>> Sounds like it. I mean, when we were reading up the stuff he was working on, I mean, clearly you got to be >> Water on distant planets. I mean, it's intense. It's intense and and it's all very unbelievable as well, right?
50:43>> Yeah, I haven't talked to my friend David Kipping to see if he knew him. I should do I should actually do that, Dave. Cuz we had David in here for episode 358. He runs basically like I I forget what it's called the God damn it. At Columbia University, he runs the What is it called, Dave? The center for something [ __ ] something.
51:06>> Um >> Lost >> Science and Technology Facilities Council.
51:10>> Yeah, but there's a It's got a really [ __ ] cool name. Like the Cool Worlds Lab or something like that.
51:17At Columbia.
51:19Google David Kipping Cool Worlds Lab. I It's called something like that, but David looks His expertise is in studying exoplanets and searching for life, which is exactly what Carl was doing out of Caltech and then associated with places like JPL for certain projects and stuff like that. It'd be interesting if, you know, obviously his wife has more important things to do like grieve her husband and everything right now, but if you do have future conversations with her, be interesting to hear what she could expand upon with with the nature of his work for sure.
51:51>> And I think I felt, you know, a little guilty as she's shutting it down sort of about, you know, but she she made a point to tell me and she's like, I just want to tell you like this was misreported about what happened but and I was like, oh, that's actually so interesting. Do you have anything else that you can share? And you know, she she said no and and again, I didn't really want to press, but I do feel like I can give her some updates and when I do, I will get more info.
52:14>> Okay. Now, the other one that had a weird like no motive and this one is more buttoned up because we actually know more details based on what the government's telling us is the MIT plasma physicist because he was killed on December 15th, I believe 2 days after the shooting at Brown University >> Yes.
52:35>> by the same shooter. That shooter killed two students and injured nine other students at Brown University and he had been classmates with the plasma physicist, but he drives from Brown over those 2 days >> Mhm.
52:48>> to Boston and walks into the foyer of this guy's apartment complex >> Mhm.
52:55>> and kills him.
52:56>> Yes.
52:56>> And then is later found, I a few days later, that the shooter inside a storage unit that he owned having a self-inflicted, this is what it's reported as, self-inflicted gunshot wound. They also, I think from the storage unit, maybe you can correct me on this, they recovered videos of him s- admitting that he did these things and that he planned to do it at least as it pertains to the Brown University shooting, but there was no motive.
53:22>> Well, I mean, you you said it. So, Claudio Neves Valente, that's his name.
53:28He shot uh and killed two students at Brown, like you said, injured the others and or nine others. And I think if you want to play the conspiracy route around this one, which I'm not necessarily playing here, but you know, you could sort of say, "Okay, the FBI was involved with the Providence police at that time." Because, you know, the Providence police kind of got this not-so-great reputation as to to not finding the shooter. And then, you know, we find out there's not cameras around Brown. So, you know, the university is under scrutiny and it's it's just a mess.
54:03>> They didn't have cameras?
54:04>> Well, apparently they have so they have thousands of cameras, but they didn't have them in this science center. And there I don't remember exactly, but the the president of Brown came out and just made these really [ __ ] remarks, it felt like. It just It didn't feel genuine and it felt strange. And then, you know, when we heard the news that he had 2 days to go drive to Brookline, Massachusetts and shoot and kill an old classmate, you're like, "Well, wait a second.
54:33You guys could have stopped this. If you would have just done your jobs and stopped this, a man would still be alive." So, I go back to like, "Okay, who dropped the ball exactly? Let's let's go back and and, you know, go through step by step. When the FBI joined the investigation, what was going on? And while I haven't done that yet, um I I have sort of tracked the the manifesto, right? We saw a translation of that or a transcription of that. He said it in in Portuguese on on this video in the Salem, New Hampshire storage facility he was at, which by the way, I've been to. I'm from New Hampshire. My sister lives nearby. And
55:13it's weird.
55:13>> storage facility?
55:15>> The Yeah, it's just I mean, it's like not the actual We don't know the actual unit it was. They have not disclosed that. They Well, no, I'm not sure.
55:22>> it to him?
55:22>> Yeah, no, no, no. Um but but >> person would say.
55:27>> I am I didn't I feel like I didn't answer either way. I feel like you're you're really trying with that one. Um but no, I think that we should all be skeptical when the DOJ is like, "Here.
55:38let me give you something that you didn't ask for.
55:41Um, so we didn't ask for anything, but all of a sudden they're like, we found a video and we've transcribed it into English. This is, you know, Claudionis Valente. This is what he said, and federal authorities came out and said, well, it's very clear that he was targeting the students at Brown. Not clear about Nuny Olorio. Nothing about that.
56:01They transcribed this for us in English.
56:03They gave us a transcription. We have no idea if we're seeing the whole thing. We have no clue. Um, why did you give it to us? Nobody asked. And there's no real explanation there, except like this guy's crazy and he hates, you know, his life and and he doesn't hate America, but he's not happy. It's just it was stupid. I'm just like >> to at this point? Like do we know what his >> really. He was living in Florida, I guess. Um, but I mean he he also studied astrophysics, I believe. Yeah, in Portugal.
56:33And and obviously at Brown, but he he was troubled. It it was just one of those things where I just felt like, oh wow, they just want this to be over. So they're releasing information to us that we didn't ask for.
56:46Um, and that it reminds me of of Charlie Kirk with Tyler Robinson when their Jeff Gray is during a press conference reading these text messages between Tyler Robinson and his lover. And I'm like, wow, they really spelled out for us what happened exactly. Like, check under your keyboard, my love. Oh, was it you? Why? Well, like it's just like, really?
57:07>> Some chat GPT.
57:08>> Well, it's just like we don't talk, I mean, without knowing, right? Like how they speak to one another.
57:14I'm just going to go ahead and and guess that you know, not many people really talk like that or put that stuff in writing.
57:21But for whatever reason, Utah's like, here you go.
57:25>> literally beyond like the autism spectrum. I was like, it's not >> Wild, right? Again, no one asked, but you were giving it to us and you were explaining everything.
57:36>> Also having like some old like curmudgeony [ __ ] 70-year-old white dude just like reading it like "My love is under the table." It's like >> Yeah, yeah, that was >> get like a better performer. Like come on.
57:50>> No, but I mean again, he's asking or they what whatever the the roommate or lover was like they are asking all the questions and he's answering everything. I mean, wouldn't you be like I'm not going to put this in writing right now? Let me call you. Like it's just like what? Like it just doesn't make sense.
58:07>> It doesn't make sense.
58:08>> No, it doesn't.
58:09>> Now, is there the plasma mechanics you know, cuz I study that all the time.
58:15In case that wasn't obvious. Is there anything in the nature of What How do you say his name again?
58:21>> Nuno Loreo?
58:22>> Nuno Loreo's work at MIT that is potentially world-changing or something of note where people might want them dead.
58:34>> So, I will just tell you I don't know enough about that stuff.
58:36>> That's fine. That's fine. I I like that answer.
58:40>> yeah, I can't I you know, I'm trying to to dive into that's like I guess the second layer for me for a lot of them is diving into their work, but I will tell you this and I said this uh I said this the other day on on the sorry.
58:54I said this on the the Will Cain show and I I didn't want this to be misconstrued at all, but you know, as a reporter or a journalist, when you're working on a story and you are putting stories out there, you're filing stories, you're doing podcasts, normally people come forward and they say, "Hey, I have some information for you about XYZ."
59:14I've had one or two people do that, but nobody that actually worked alongside these people and that's really rare for for me as a journalist for someone to say like, you know, or or I guess not to say. I should just say that. Like and I think that most reporters and journalists would agree that all of a sudden your messages and emails start blowing up with people that hasn't happened.
59:36>> That's bizarre. Dave, can you pull up Sam Altman's alien overlord app and ask it what Nuno Loureiro was working on and if it if any nature of his work was considered like world-changing or something like that.
59:51>> I feel like that would have come out like when he died. Don't you? Like when he was murdered with you would have known like oh he was >> story This story wasn't out, but I remember it's like in the back of my mind and I don't want to say for sure or not, but I feel like I remember clips of people talking about this like yo he was working on some [ __ ] Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description
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