0:01All right, we're back. Tommy, what were you just saying?
0:03>> Hood videos are becoming almost impossible to do right now.
0:06>> Why?
0:07>> And that used to be our our forte. And if you look at the last three months, I think we've only done one video in the hood. And there's a few reasons. One is we're starting to get this phenomenon where we show up to a shoot and there's nine vloggers, there's 30 other people standing by, and it's like there's too many cooks in the kitchen, and it's becoming it just it doesn't there's not an authentic feel anymore. Like I like I [clears throat] don't want to stage a shot. I don't want to set up. I just like when we rolled up on Squeeze Benz, he just was there. We instantly are starting to film. Like even a couple
0:36times with with these car guys, like there's so many people in the background, so many vloggers that it's like, "Hey guys, can we move the 20 people over here and we got to start?"
0:44And I I just want things to be as natural as possible. But the other thing is, um, >> there's an unreliability factor working with the hood sometimes that is so hard to overcome. I had these I won't say which gang, but a very well-known gang out in Vegas. um one out in Los Angeles.
1:00Each time, hey, we set this up months in advance. Even when I was coming to New York, we I had two different projects we were going to come to and and go through them and interview these guys. Tell them a month in advance. Put it on your calendar. This is when we're doing it.
1:14Follow up with them a week before, 4 days before, and then the day of, oh, I'm out in Connecticut. Can we do it there?
1:21>> Or, oh, um, the guys aren't ready yet.
1:25What do you mean they're not ready yet?
1:26We had two months to organize this and I I don't mind the transition because we're getting into a lot more investigative pieces about cults or corrupt mayors or thing things like that. But um it was our bread and butter of the channel for a long time and it's amazing to me [sighs] how much more difficult it's becoming to to work that >> part of the problem and it's not your fault. It's just that you've gotten so big too that you're now a guy that people look at as clout, right? So, when you >> clout lord, >> when you were first doing it though, it was like this totally organic thing.
2:02You're going in, you're getting the story, and then all those things blow up. Video with you blows up, video with the drivers blow up, you know, all these different and then the one in St. Louis, like all this stuff. So, now all these people hit you up and they're like, "Oh, Tommy G's coming." And they all want to pull up with their people. And then sometimes they're just hitting you up and they don't even have a plan of like what this is actually gonna look like.
2:21They just want to know like, "Oh, Tommy G's coming to film with us." And they might [ __ ] you over. Like you said, >> it feels weird because I would rather be completely unknown and just get in and be able to hit the story so smoothly.
2:34Like it's >> right >> there's there I think becoming a bigger platform >> becoming a bigger platform in some ways is a blessing because there's so many more doors that are getting opened up right now like my close ratio of whoever I'm hitting up whether it's a billionaire or a car thief it doesn't matter in between like the close rate is a lot higher because we have a platform but uh there's a lot more unintended consequences that come with it that are I take it part of me is hey take it as a compliment The fact that people even want to show up or do their own vlog of you, I get it. And I'm I'm happy that people even think
3:11that it's worth I'm worth talking to in a way, but I'd rather just be that smooth criminal that rolls in undercover, hits the story, boom, I'm out.
3:19>> Yeah.
3:20>> What made you want to do the video with Tommy back when when it came up? Like, why him?
3:25>> Um, I could just tell he was genuine.
3:27Not like >> Yeah.
3:28No like police games or just like if I asked him not to ask me something to take some out the video, I feel like he would. I could just tell he's a good guy.
3:35>> Who asked who again to do this? Did you ask?
3:37>> I hit you up. I think within 30 minutes we were on the phone.
3:40>> Yeah. Facts.
3:41>> Cuz I just saw this. I was seeing all the pictures of him outside ATMs with stacks of cash like this high. And I was just like, I can't believe this c this guy is out. He's a real life GTA character. And I like to interview those type of guys. But you're a lot calmer than a GTA character. I got to give you that. You're not like you're not shakable.
4:02>> You know, [snorts] strategic, >> right? You're not running around [ __ ] beeping at chicks and having their [ __ ] titties fall out and then hit them with a baseball bat.
4:08>> No, wait till the Brandon Buckingham video.
4:11>> Oh, yeah.
4:12>> He's like, "Another side coming out."
4:14>> Now, that video is crazy. Yeah. You might see some titties.
4:18>> When And you don't know when it's coming, you said.
4:20>> No, I got to hit him up. I edited my version already.
4:23>> Oh, you have a version? Yeah, because I'm vlogging, too. So, >> Right. Darius is out there filming all the Okay. So, you're gonna like simultaneously drop it together?
4:30>> Yeah. I'm gonna wait for him. I I want him to drop it first and I'll drop after.
4:33>> Yeah. Tommy, you brought it up, though.
4:35What's going on with our dear friend Tiffany Henard? The LA The very first time you were in here, you just dropped that first video with her >> back in February/March 2024. And now you went back and did another video with her as she was about to be voted out. Is that right? Well, first I can't even believe that she let us go film with her.
4:56>> Yeah. Can you tell people who she is?
4:57>> So, Tiffany Henyard is the notorious super mayor of Dton, Illinois. She has gone on spending spree. She lives basically a first class lavish lifestyle off of her taxpayer. And it went from being her her county or her city was in a $4 million surplus before she took office to now it's in a $4 million deficit. There was an $8 million swing.
5:17And it's because she's living like a third world crime lord really. And she's just one of these characters that you could you could confront her about the most plain fact. Like for example, renting these T or buying these Taho at an egregious price. That's not me. I take out her signature. I take out I I wore a purple suit for this. It was a very important story. Take out my purple suit, present the paperwork of her own signature, and she's like, "That wasn't me." And so she just has this legendary criminal mayor in a in a in a >> It could be an auto pen, Tommy. I hear they're using those. these days.
5:52>> I hear she might have to look into that.
5:54But Chicago is already a place that's famous for its corruption.
5:57>> Yeah.
5:57>> And to the fact that now we're talking in May and she still hasn't gotten swooped in on by the feds, I'm actually really surprised. I thought it was going to be happening somewhere by midappril.
6:08And >> she lost the election after you filmed with her, right? It was right after.
6:12>> We filmed the day of the election and then released it after.
6:16>> She had you come film with on the day of the election? We we filmed once with her two or three weeks before the election and then we filmed again the day of the election. We we covered the drama in the town and she lost in a landslide. And thank God because when I was talking to her, >> she's such a good manipulator that I almost wondered if I had gotten everything wrong about her cuz she exists in this whole other reality bubble where >> I started to wonder like is this lady the next Mother Teresa? Like I wasn't fully fooled by her but part of me was like was I too harsh with this lady or what? Cuz
6:47>> you were dancing with her. I was I was getting worried. I saw that video. I was like, "Tommy, what happened?" Bro, >> people thought that I got I got uh swooped. But that's the thing about I would say in a way she's a cult leader.
6:57She's a cult leader that ran a town. And when you're meeting with people like that, when you see all the stories about them, you assume they're going to be evil. They're going to be bad. They're most of these people are very charismatic and likable and that's part of their charm and that's how they function.
7:11>> That's right.
7:11>> And so seeing her how she planted the day, hey, I'm going to go doornocking.
7:17Door knockocking is when you hit the entire street and and canvas the voters.
7:20Hey, I'm Tiffany Henyard. Do you want to vote for me? She would pick people that got free stuff from her and we go talk to her them and they'd sing their praises for her.
7:29>> So, he's like, "Yeah, I approve."
7:32[laughter] >> To me, she's just an amazing character to to see in history because there's they emerge every once in a while. and the fact that we got our hands on her and got to profile her story just like just like Dev like to to in a moment of history when scamming was at this crazy internet sensation like to be able to be there in that moment and profile that person to me is being in the right place at the right time and the universe opening up doors for you.
8:00>> Didn't you feel like I was a terrible person at first >> before I got you? I'm like this guy is such a piece of [ __ ] like God.
8:05>> And during the video too, right? Mhm.
8:07>> You were doing things that definitely deserved hard questions.
8:10>> Yeah. I feel like you wasn't [ __ ] with me and then after.
8:13>> But now you like them.
8:14>> Oh, now I really like them.
8:16>> Good friends.
8:17>> You know, I there's a lot of people that [snorts] you make assumptions about based off of the internet story or based off of what they do. I don't know. I've talked to killers that I like. I've talked to gun dealers. I like >> you like >> Yeah.
8:30>> What kinds of killers?
8:32>> Block shooters. guys that are the the guy on their team that if someone needs to get tagged, they're the ones that say, "I'm going to play the game."
8:38>> Yeah. I mean, they'd be likable. They just be goofy and regular.
8:42>> They'd be goofy and regular and shoot.
8:43>> They have a lot of fun. Yeah.
8:45>> But you'd be surprised at how nice and how much hospitality a killer can treat you with.
8:51>> Super loyal, too.
8:52>> Yeah. Like I have I have some of these guys like there's a couple guys in the Latin Kings where I know what they've done. There's even video footage of some of their actions. He calls me up and he's extremely nice. Hey gang, how you doing? How's your family doing? How's your son doing?
9:05>> Do you think Do you think that is the side of humanity that they have? Cuz we're talking about like the worst the worst types of things now, right? Is that a side of humanity they have or do you think that's a side of sociopathy they have that allows them to play that role?
9:21>> I don't think people are one-dimensionally evil. Often I think that's a rare character that you find.
9:26Most people, like even if you talk about profiling cartel stories, you think it's this guy always beheading people and doing crazy stuff, but then you go to his family house, he's cooking like they're cooking in the family, they have a kids birthday party, there's a piñata up in a tree, and there's a very normal family functioning happening. But when dad goes to work, he does >> unspeakable things.
9:46>> Yeah. [sighs and gasps] >> So, I know that there's also I'm providing value to them, so of course they're going to go out of their way to be nice to me. Like I'm sure if I was just a if I didn't have a YouTube platform, sure I'd probably get a different experience. But even without YouTube, I think if you were to treat these guys kindly, even some of these shooters, they are hoping for love. Like they want connection to people. So many guys, even in their own gang, >> like when when push comes to shove and they're the ones that go to jail, their gang isn't really giving putting money on their commissary, doing anything
10:14books.
10:14>> They never do.
10:15>> And you've seen this with some of your guys that you've hung out with Chicago.
10:17He was a certified threats all over Chicago for the last year. You built some really good relationships. As soon as something happens, this game disappears. And so if you're the guy that actually shows them love and maintains a relationship with them, they're very loyal to you.
10:32>> Definitely.
10:33>> So you don't I I think the thing in different ways that you and I run into doing what we do is like we get to know people really well, right? I have people come in here s me for hours on end. You go to where people are and you're talking with them, seeing their life, whatever, seeing all the good sides of them as well. And I struggle with this a lot where you run into it where everyone can show you their best self or show you that they have the capability to be their best self. And as someone who like loves people, I want to always see the good side and I want to be like, you know what, that guy's all right. But I
11:07also have to find a way to try to be objective to where like when someone really is often doing bad stuff. Like if you were still coming in here and doing all these scams all the time, I' you'd walk out of here and I'd have to be like, "Man, I really like Dev, but he's still a scumbag."
11:22>> You just got to be able to read people.
11:23I feel like you've talked to enough people, too. Like I feel like I'm really good at reading people, too. I can know when they're putting like a fake front.
11:30Like >> what do you think that is? Do you think that's from like having to be around so many different types of people?
11:34>> Yeah. Like just moving around everywhere and having so many different friends and seeing so many and then hearing their stories, talking to them, hearing their friends friend story. I feel like I don't seen and like heard so much. Like I can just look at somebody, talk to them for like 5 minutes and kind of know exactly how they are.
11:48>> I think you're also it striking me like watching you when you came in here today for a while before we getting on camera.
11:55You're a listener. You're listening to what everyone else is saying. You're not one of these.
11:59>> I got to peep the scene first, >> right?
12:01>> Isn't that one of the laws of power to stay silent and to observe >> probably? Yeah. I can't remember. I read that book, but >> I've read it too.
12:08>> Yeah.
12:08>> Hard read. It's too Macavelian for me.
12:10>> It's heavy. It it looks at every person as if they're trying to manipulate you or like I I talked to this billionaire guy and >> Tadler.
12:19>> Yeah. And I saw on the I saw his book on the on the between the podcast table was 48 laws of power. I'm like not you you can't like >> that's not a good book. It's not a good book.
12:28>> It's it's not a road map of how to treat people or build relationship.
12:31>> It's an evil book.
12:32>> It's evil.
12:32>> It's a cautionary tale similar to how Dev is, you know, we're he's graciously out of the goodness of his heart providing advice to people to protect themselves. That's a book you read and you're like, "Okay, this is how to protect people."
12:42>> Graciously out of the goodness of your heart.
12:43>> Yeah, 100%.
12:44>> You know what? I just realized it, Allessie, this I'm never going to unsee this. Jaylen hurts.
12:49>> Oh, >> that's what it is. You even carry yourself like the same way. Like quiet.
12:55Can't really tell the emotions, what's going on. Like you do the same thing with your lips and everything. Like when you're done making a point, like I'm not telling you where I stand.
13:03>> I'm never going to unsee that. Holy [ __ ] >> He's a basketball player, right?
13:06>> Oh my god.
13:07>> Get the [ __ ] out. football. He's the quarterback for the >> for the Eagles. The Super Bowl champion.
13:12>> I don't be watching too much sports either.
13:13>> The Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles in this household to you, Tommy.
13:17>> God bless Philadelphia.
13:18>> Oh, you're Eagles fan.
13:19>> Yeah.
13:19>> Okay.
13:19>> I grew up in South Jersey.
13:21>> Nice, nice, nice.
13:22>> You grew up in South Jersey.
13:24>> What?
13:24>> I didn't hear what you said.
13:25>> I said South Jersey is a beautiful location.
13:27>> It is a great location. New Jersey is a great location.
13:30>> Yeah. If we like [laughter] >> when he talks >> when he talks like he's so no matter whether it's high or low he's the same emotion every time and he just kind of like does the littlest smirk at you at the end of everything [laughter] >> a twitch right here >> I can't unsee that now that's funny as [ __ ] >> that's accurate >> but Tommy you're saying so when you were going in to do the video with Dev you thought he was a terrible guy Dev thinks while you're doing it you still probably think he's a terrible But then you become friends. What what what turns you like what made you be like I like this guy?
14:06>> You know what that is a tough battle because in similar you talk to these spies that have done who knows what to people overseas and but you'll have them over here seven times. You'll go out to eat with them. You'll hang out with them. Um, it's one of those things where if I met a guy that was stealing my car, I don't want to just kill him or choke him out or, you know, but because it's not happening to me, there's no personal [clears throat] >> animosity. Um, and also I think people just have, especially when it comes to making money, people have they're they're dialing on their way of making money,
14:43but outside of that, there there's a a different side of themselves as they show that is redeemable. Even the car thieves, you know, okay, you go out every night, you were just with these guys at 1 a.m. in a hospital parking lot last night that had a Hellcat. Piece of [ __ ] But I bet if I caught you at a burger restaurant where you was having a meal around a table, I bet I would have a good time with you. And I've come to realize about most people. Most people, I think.
15:07>> But that doesn't necessarily make them good.
15:10>> No, these aren't guys that I would invite to my son's first birthday party.
15:14>> What about me? I can come, right?
15:16>> Uh, I have to get my representative at Chase to see if they approve the visit.
15:20Yeah, Dev could come to my house. I also know that my wallet's not going to be missing when Dev comes to my house.
15:26>> You do know that.
15:28>> I'm 99.9%.
15:30>> I never met you before, so I can tell you everything was hidden this morning.
15:33I've never had to do that before. Well, Matt Cox, are you serious?
15:35>> Yeah, Matt Cox. I did that when I was still in my parents house and Matt was coming for the first time.
15:40>> I hid some of my dad's credit cards and stuff.
15:42>> Dang.
15:43>> You know Matt Cox?
15:43>> No.
15:44>> You never heard of Matt Cox? You and Matt Cox need to do a podcast together.
15:48>> He's a scammer.
15:48>> Yeah. Can we pull up Matt Cox's Wikipedia?
15:50>> I know Bernie Maddox. Was he one of the most famous? [laughter] >> Matt Cox is my friend who I swear to God is reformed. That was his FBI most wanted poster. Let's go to the Wikipedia page.
16:03>> Was he on meth or >> Oh, he looks like he was. But >> they took his worst mug shot and posted that. Police do that, by the way. Are you serious? They told you that?
16:11>> I just I took a mug shot photo one time that I thought was going to be badass and then I looked at it and it was [laughter] >> I never really >> Wait, what did you try to do with the mug shot? like me mug.
16:20>> I was I think maybe I smiled cuz I was like I'm going to put this on a t-shirt and it's going to be so sick and I'm going to sell some merch.
16:26>> The the photo was so bad I'm like uh yeah, that idea is on the back burner.
16:31>> Yeah.
16:31>> He later took that picture cuz he was on the run from the FBI for like three years. He later took that picture and as a fine arts major in college, he majored in fine arts. He likes to say that. He made a new laminated I guess what is it like the lanyard or whatever for the Salvation Army and invented some position called like statistical surveyor or something and he would go up to homeless guys and say all right what's your name social security number with that picture and they would give it to him and then he would get their identities >> and be on the run. He was he was next level >> and what you guys share in some of the
17:05work you've done is really good social engineering skills. M what do you mean >> putting someone in a position where like if they're going to give you money? Most people if I just confront you directly, Julian, send me 500 bucks. No, you're not going to do it. But if I socially engineer a situation where you want to give me the money, like, hey, you think you're going to get something out of it?
17:25You think I'm legit? Um, that's what a a true scam artist is or a con artist is is they they create an atmosphere that would something otherwise unbelievable becomes believable.
17:35>> Yeah.
17:36>> Would you concur with that? Yeah.
17:38>> Did you ever plot out how to do that or was it just natural?
17:42>> You'll just learn on the way. Like you'll suck at first and then you'll learn on the way.
17:45>> You get better.
17:46>> Yeah. You'll get better.
17:47>> Practice.
17:47>> He's a finesser.
17:48>> Yeah.
17:50>> Now Matt is So his story is that he never committed a crime till he was 30 years old. And he he was a mortgage broker with a wife and young kid at 30.
18:03and his boss whited out a number on one of his mortgages. He was like behind on his bills and she's like, "Ah, sorry.
18:10This mortgage that he had just negotiated isn't going to pass." He was like, "Oh my god, I'm not going to be able to pay my bills." She's like, "No problem." So, she took out white out and just changed the number. Like a small little, you know, it's it's like a small form of fraud, but like they it was something so small that you know, maybe you get fired for that, but you wouldn't get arrested. And he saw that he went, "Oh, shit." So what started as just changing a number very quickly got to he got creative and went all the way down the rabbit hole and pretty soon was stealing identities, creating fake real
18:39estate empires all down in Florida.
18:42>> Finally like gets caught and decides to go on the run. He's on the run for three years. This is all a six-year period.
18:48He's on the run for three years. Got plastic surgery. The whole bit.
18:51>> Are you serious?
18:52>> From the FBI, gets caught. Gets sentenced to 26 years in prison. Goes into prison. becomes one of the most prolific dry snitches in the history of prison. He's very open about it and like, you know, used any information he could to get the [ __ ] out of there. He was at Coleman. And so, long story short, there was a lot of other crazy [ __ ] that happened, but he got his sentence down to 13 years. Still did that whole thing. But while he was in prison, he's a brilliant guy. Like, Matt would have been great at anything he ever did. So, he became an author cuz he was in prison at Coleman, which was like
19:25the Ivy League of [ __ ] crime. like he had one of everything there. So these famous people were there and he would write their books and like publish them even from behind bars. And one of the books he wrote was called Once a Gunrunner about Ephraim Dolley which then Warner Brothers stole and made into the movie War Dogs.
19:44>> Damn.
19:45>> That was that book. And so Matt and Ephraim later sued each other but also then at the same time were both suing Warner Brothers together for like misusing the whatever. But Ephraim was [ __ ] crazy. Anyway, so Matt, the reason I bring this up is because he realized a couple things about himself they never knew. First of all, he was like 5'4, so he's got like short man's complex and everything. So he always had narcissistic tendencies, but he was diagnosed as like narcissistic megalomaniacal personality disorder. And he and he's very that's what it's called, I guess. And he's very open about this and very self-aware of it.
20:19Like to the point like I'm kind of proud of like how much he's like constantly keeping that in check knowing what he could be capable of. Yeah.
20:26>> Have you ever thought about not necessarily narcissistic me like melo maniacal personality disorder but have you ever thought about you maybe being predisposed to having narcissistic tendencies or things like that that could lead you to potentially hurt other people without you realizing you're doing it?
20:43>> So like what's really a narcissist? like somebody who just only cares about themselves.
20:48>> In the simplest terms, I would say that's probably fair.
20:50>> Nah, cuz I really help a lot of people around me.
20:53>> You do help How do you help a lot of people around you?
20:55>> Just like I'll put them on to things, help them make money, they're down on their last, help them out. Help somebody people's moms out, they need help.
21:06Somebody goes to jail, help them with that.
21:09>> Yeah.
21:09>> I will say one thing in his defense, too. He uh was one of the biggest donors to a wrestling charity I had.
21:16>> Oh, that's cool.
21:17>> Mhm.
21:18>> So, you do Where do you think that comes from? Putting other people on?
21:21>> Cuz like I said, like growing up around everybody, I know like I can understand like where they come from and I've seen all sides of life. I feel like in America at least. I don't know. I've seen like the poor and the rich.
21:34>> So, you're okay. In the past, you were hypothetically okay with doing things that you probably knew were wrong >> to get ahead.
21:43>> Yeah.
21:44>> And part of the way you justified it was what you might do with those means or the I don't know power.
21:49>> Yeah. That's I just did it for selfish reasons for sure. But what comes with that I will help somebody if they need help, but I wasn't getting the money like I'm only getting this to help other people.
21:58>> Is part of that like you never got any help and you wish other people would have helped you in at different points of your life? Not I mean like help as in what?
22:07>> I don't know. Like you maybe felt alone and so you want other people to feel like they you're looking out for them.
22:14You know what I mean? Like the things you didn't get.
22:18>> Uh >> I'm just picking away at things here. I don't know.
22:20>> I don't know. I think I just feel I just feel for people. I can just understand.
22:25I don't know.
22:25>> So would you say you're you have a lot of empathy?
22:30>> Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. Selective empathy. One thing I've learned with >> I was talking to these Afghani guys in California that had done some highle robbery of of Chinese triad grow operations and like it was like if you're not in their circle zero empathy I'm out for my own gain but in my circle my family eats good. Would you say your mentality is kind of like that?
22:51>> For the most part yeah for the most part but I will help people on the outside too but I don't know. You never know who you're helping out. So it's like you come out and like help the wrong person or end up they'll end up [ __ ] you over or something.
23:03>> Sometimes it's hard to help people too.
23:05>> Giving money to people is hard.
23:08>> There's there's a certain thing that I've learned where the receiver of help can sometimes resent the giver >> and it adds a dynamic to the relationship that you wish you never entered into.
23:19>> Yeah, definitely.
23:20>> So you've run into that.
23:22>> Yeah. like people just trying to take advantage of you or like then they end up being jealous or just getting like secret animosity cuz they feel like you're trying to little bro them or something >> to you. [clears throat] >> So what started as hey I'm going to help you turns into a situation where they don't even like you anymore.
23:36>> Yeah. And then they start feeling obligated. Yeah. They expect it. They'll start feeling obligated or like you give somebody an inch and then they'll start taking >> do way more like Yeah.
23:45>> They take it to the extreme. Like so it's like I've definitely learned a lot.
23:48I used to be way more helpful towards other people before. But now I just be knowing a lot of people just be like bullshitting or just they don't want to help themselves. So why would I help them? They just want to take from me for the temporary moment and then they're going to go back to the same and ask me again for something.
24:02>> I think it you find that it's rare you're ever really going to help somebody with money. But what you where you really can help someone with is mentorship and knowledge. And and that's the purest type of student teacher relationship or or have taking someone under your wing. If they want to learn everything, you know, they want to ask questions. They want to be in your shoes for as much time as they can and follow you around. That's a person that I feel like is going to take it for themselves and try hopefully try and outshine you in the future, which is what every teacher wants of a student. But the
24:30people that just want resources again and again and don't change at all, that's the worst type of person to give to.
24:36>> Yeah. But even those type of people like cuz that's what I'll do more. I don't really give out money. I'd rather teach you exactly what I'm doing and I'll teach them that and it'll still be lazy or like half ass do it or like I don't know like it got to be a certain person like that really wants it enough and some people you'll give your information to them and then like they'll end up just like being in the way type [ __ ] like and then you're not even using it to the fullest like you're just you don't want to better yourself or nothing like you're just a waste of you're just wasting it. Do you think the world is
25:06automatically, how do I want to say this? Do you think there's always just going to be people who are inherently weak and people who are inherently strong or do you think everyone has the ability to be one or the other?
25:17>> Everybody has the ability to be one or the other, but people just like being comfortable and just it's just easier to be weak, I guess. I don't know.
25:24>> A question I was thinking about on a jog yesterday was what percentage of our suffering in life is self-imposed? M >> and a lot of you >> I think for most people especially let's just call it United States where we're not in a civil war or something crazy like I'm not getting machete tribes visiting my village to cut us to pieces like would you say most people in America most of their suffering is self-imposed?
25:47>> Definitely. I mean some people grew up a certain way and their parents were a certain way. So sometimes they don't know no better. But even you could come to somebody like that show me exactly how you did it. give them a step by step and they'll still just be like, I'm good doing what I'm doing. I feel like it's definitely self-imposed. And people who are depressed and [ __ ] like I like they'll be depressed and fat, too. So, it's like, bro, just go to the gym. If you just go to the gym every day, you don't even got to be skinny or nothing, but you'll feel better about yourself.
26:13You have to do something every day that builds yourself up.
26:15>> Well, you are definitely like going through your life story and all the different steps of it. You're definitely a go-getter. Like you like people don't have to tell you to go do something.
26:25you're if you get an idea like, "Oh, I need to do this. This is what it could do for me." Regardless of what the moral implications are along the way, like you're able to do that. There's other people who, >> and I wonder about this sometimes, is it like the envir the instant environment around them that they're raised in? Or is it just they're kind of inherently born with that gene where they they just don't have that and they don't do that and they're like, like you said, they're going to sit there and be comfortable and and [ __ ] miserable in many cases.
26:51>> Yeah. Well, I feel like Yes. Some people like where they're born at, they don't see nobody else like do big things or like be a doctor or anything. So they feel like that's completely out of their like range of things. But then it's like all right the people they do see >> is like drug dealers and scammers. Yes.
27:06But they won't even do that either >> or they won't work a job either. It's like I don't know the opportunities they do get they don't want to take.
27:14>> Yeah. Sometimes though, like I this is one of my like favorite topics to ponder on like nature versus nurture, environment versus like free will.
27:22>> There's a story I've told before on the podcast. My my buddy Josh >> grew up in the Bronx. Grew up in the projects of the Bronx. And what he was really lucky to have is that he had both parents at home and they were [ __ ] amazing parents and his mom was actually a teacher at one of the local schools.
27:38So he was smart when he was coming up and and he was able to get into a program in fifth grade where basically he got into the high level program which then eventually allowed him to go to high school outside the city >> as well. So he got all these amazing opportunities >> and he he tells the story how the first time like he he lived outside the city as a freshman in high school. the first time he came home, maybe it was Thanksgiving or winter break, whatever it was, he comes back to the Bronx and when he gets back onto like a couple blocks away from his house, he sees coming up on the corner one of his
28:12buddies they grew up with.
28:13>> And right away, you know, he knows he's he's part of the gang now, like slanging drugs and whatever. And his buddy sees him coming and gets like a serious look on his face, walks up to Josh, dabs him up. Hey, what's up, man? How you doing?
28:26No, it's good to see you. Really glad to see you doing well. like he had a full understanding of what Josh was doing and how hard he was working and the opportunity he had. But he said to Josh, he said, "Now walk across the street and do not look back at me." Meaning like this 14, 15year-old kid had a full understanding of like this is what my life is. This is my only option. This is what I can do, but I'm not going to pull my friend who's got the opportunity to be in something else down into this.
28:52Meaning like he it was like such a selfless thing, but at the same time it's like what becomes of him? That's all like in his mind that's the only option he had. And I'm not condoning, you know, being in a gang and selling drugs or whatever, but I think about that a lot cuz I'm like, "All right, he didn't quite get the opportunity." Josh, >> super hard, too. That's how like Chief Kee did it. Like how he made it out and just cut everybody off and then cuz it's hard to cut everybody off, too. Like, so >> I don't know much about that. He cut everybody off.
29:20>> Yeah. So, it's just like this. Imagine you're on the south side, right? You already have like Southside Chicago, any really any hoods, but I'm going just use that one for an example. And it's like, all right, your only option is either that you think is go play sports or rap.
29:32So then you you're not going to make sports. So then you start rapping.
29:35>> You're finally getting a little bit of money and everybody around you is like this with their hands out. Yeah.
29:40>> So the little bit of money you do have, you can't use it to invest or nothing because you don't even know anything.
29:44You don't even know anybody in your family that's ever invested in anything.
29:47So you have nobody to ask.
29:48>> And then or if you do try to reach out to somebody, they'll probably finesse you, too. So you give all the money out to everybody and you have nothing. Then you sign another deal. you might got more money and then there's still more people asking. All right, but if you don't want to do that and you want to cut everybody off, it's hard to cut your family and friends off that you grew up with and that you were sleeping on the floor with and like you literally starve with them. Like >> they might have gave you like y'all literally shared food and everything. So it's hard either way. They're both hard
30:12but I feel like the better option I guess you have to cut everybody off. I don't know.
30:16>> These rappers will take a lot of guys with them that don't have any role to play on the team and that's where they get drained. Like I saw a post from YTB Fat. Are you familiar with him? He's one of the more popping and gangster rappers that have come on the scene in the last couple years. And he's like, "Yeah, people see the big paydays, but they don't see the 50 60k overhead where I'm putting guys in hotels. I'm paying rent.
30:34Guys want clothes. I'm getting cool clothes. They want the clothes, too. And all of a sudden, this huge rap deal that on paper, oh, I'm a millionaire now. You know, I'm getting dwindled down down the toilet." And I think that's something where that especially guys from the streets struggle with because then you have all these random guys hanging on where well I was in the studio with you and you recorded don't like and it was like yeah well yeah you were smoking weed with us and eating the food we had in the studio but you didn't >> you didn't write a melody you didn't help me with a bar you just were kind of
31:03a a fan which is really important like you were in my music videos like I had a squad behind me that's important but >> now they'll say you switched up if you're telling them that.
31:10>> Yeah. I think that's the biggest trap of the hood too with a someone that becomes successful is there's so much more >> uh responsibility that they feel like they have that drains the bucket >> and then everybody around you still doing like crimes and [ __ ] so they drag you down like say like you're a big rapper and then like your peoples or somebody dies then like you might be like all right I'm grown down I have money like we're just going to take this L and just move on but everybody else is in your ear like man hell no [ __ ] that we need this and that. We need to put money on his head and [ __ ] like that.
31:44So, it's just hard. This is like this all the time.
31:46>> And that's happening a lot in rap news right now. Yeah.
31:49>> Uh in Memphis, there's a big case with the Young Dolph death.
31:53>> Oh, yeah. What's What's the latest there?
31:55>> I'm not too keen on all the details, but basically, I think someone put a hundred on a rival rapper's head, only paid the guy like 800 bucks, and the guy did it the day before his daughter's birthday party so he could have gifts for his daughter. only got paid like 800 bucks and then never saw the rest of it. And then of course he snitched on the guy that hired him and it's a whole house of cards.
32:16And that's what I noticed too. I don't know if we need to go down this rabbit hole, but culturally I feel like the the squads that have the best structure are the Mexican games. I feel like >> definitely they're the most loyal and they're most Yeah. And they work the hardest, too.
32:30>> There's more of a hierarchy where if you like, hey, I need to get approval for this. I need to get I can't get out of line. I I can get beaten down if if I step out of line. Like there seems to be a little bit more of a >> a process to their game.
32:43>> Definitely.
32:44>> So, you think that if it has to exist, that would be the way for it to exist?
32:49>> If there has to be a gang, that it has some sort of structure.
32:52>> Yeah.
32:52>> Well, that's it's a double-edged sword.
32:54Here's a something to think about. Um, we're talking to a guy uh one [snorts] of the Flores twins who he helped bring down El Chapo.
33:01>> He's coming in here. Yeah.
33:02>> So, here's what happens. And you've seen this with gains in Chicago, all over the country. When you take out the leader, now all of a sudden there's fractions.
33:10There's factions infighting. So, was it better to have one powerhouse leader leading a cohesive gang or is it better to have, look at, is it better to have two, three factions fighting tremendously within each other? And like on the law enforcement side, it's like, well, we can't just not get the leaders if we get the opportunity. But then the aftermath of instead of having gangs like Bloods, Crips, Gangster Disciples that are pretty, you know, there's a a few teams on the football field, now you have all these tiny little clicks of five guys, six guys. They're all shooting. It's a free-for-all. And now
33:44it's even more reckless and dangerous.
33:46Would have been better just to have a few teams on the field rather than >> double you know versus a double you don't.
33:51>> Yeah.
33:52>> Yeah. I mean it's and it and it relates to everything. You look at world leaders and stuff like that. Like look at some of the people we taken out like Saddam Hussein was a very bad guy. There's no doubt about that.
34:01>> And then we destabilize a region.
34:02>> We destabilize the entire region. The whole country too as well. Like I will say objectively after him it's worse.
34:10[laughter] You know what I mean? Which is like a crazy thing to think about.
34:13But it's like you know you see a regime doing horrible things to people. You want to make it better but are you going to be able to find a solution there? You go see a gang. You see a gang leader who's taking [ __ ] videos with with Shawn Penn and getting on the cover of Rolling Stone and bragging about all the [ __ ] he does and rolling heads in the street. But like, you know, if five heads are going to roll, it hate, you hate to say this, but that's better than a hundred heads rolling, you know? So, what are you going to do when you get rid of him? Now, the Elmo thing, that's another one. It's like, all right, well,
34:45now he's gone. He was like the grandfather in the hills with the cartels. Who's [ __ ] replacing him?
34:51You know, it's it's it's hard.
34:54>> We're trying to get some different stories in Mexico and probably the most likely cartel. [snorts] It's like this is like saying Lord Voldemort's name.
35:03Like you don't even want to say some of their names. Um >> Alisco, >> the new generation guys. Those guys are the most terrifying dude. You're [ __ ] what I understand. But um but even within like a group that okay this is a traditional Cinoaoa area to know that they're in fighting so hard that it's not even safe to go there.
35:21[sighs] It's once you open up Pandora's box you can't put it back in and you can't you can't it's crazy that that country is right there and we have like such crazy drug problems here that are stemming from there and then you have people that are pressing pills and giving them to people Yeah. Oh >> no, not me.
35:46>> What's that song? Deborah song.
35:48>> Deborah, >> what's that song you made?
35:50>> Who's your favorite junkie?
35:51>> Oh yeah. What was that song you made? It was called uh Long Live Deborra or something like that.
35:55>> Punch Made Dev has a It's a artistic masterpiece called Long Live Deborah.
36:00>> Long live Deborah.
36:01>> You haven't seen it?
36:02>> Long live Heather.
36:03>> Oh, Heather.
36:03>> Do you own all your own music?
36:04>> Yeah, I've never signed.
36:06>> Okay. So, we could play your music practically here. We're good. All right.
36:09Can we pull up this song? What's it called?
36:11>> This is the most egregious rap song I may have ever seen in my life. Long live Heather.
36:15>> The one that you the worst one you've ever seen.
36:18>> Arguably.
36:18>> That's saying something.
36:19>> It's up there with Kim by Eminem.
36:21>> Oh my god.
36:23>> I know.
36:23>> All right.
36:25>> I think I took it the re-upload. You click on that one. I was just trolling this video.
36:29>> The third one. Third one. Third one.
36:30Yeah. Yeah. Hit that.
36:31>> All right. Let's see what we got here.
36:34>> And now he >> Where where does that come from?
36:37>> I was just trolling.
36:38>> You're just trolling?
36:38>> Yeah.
36:39>> All right. So none of that's like personal experience, but it's just [ __ ] around.
36:42>> That happens in like >> it's satire.
36:44>> Yeah, it's trolling. But that type of stuff happens in Kentucky for sure.
36:47>> Of course. Yeah, it happens all over the country now.
36:50>> Yeah.
36:50>> So you But like I think two things are happening right there. You're pointing out [snorts] how common, sickly common this stuff is while also like making a joke out of it, too.
37:04>> Yeah.
37:05>> But it's pretty ser a lot of people are losing. I mean, I I got a couple prayer cards out there of friends who lost their lives to this stuff.
37:11>> I hear you.
37:13>> But you just view it as like >> No, it's not a joke to me. But then again, they shouldn't be taking pills.
37:19>> But there's a there's again, there's also a lot of people who they went and got their [ __ ] arm fixed, you know, their broken arm fixed and the doctor, idiot doctor gave them a prescription to whatever the [ __ ] And >> so it starts at the doctor then. We got to get on the doctor's ass.
37:32>> Absolutely. And it starts with the companies above that as well. We talk about the Sacklers all the time here and the legalized cartel >> that happens in this country for sure.
37:41>> But like there's a lot of, you know, and and are there people who make one bad decision and it leads to, you know, being addicted? For sure. And I have empathy for that as well.
37:48>> Me too. Me too.
37:50>> But, you know, do you ever do you ever worry about sending the not necessarily the wrong message, but like the wrong tone with stuff if you're just trolling?
37:58>> Yeah. That's why I took that [ __ ] down.
37:59I don't make music like that no more.
38:00That's why I said re-upload.
38:02>> You actually took that song down? Yeah, I took a lot of all that stuff like that down.
38:06>> H, >> that's interesting.
38:07>> Yeah.
38:08>> So something in you is like, "All right, that's past the line."
38:11>> Sometimes I just had to do it so I could go viral >> and then you know that was that was my >> You knew that cuz you did it cuz it would go viral.
38:19>> Yeah. I don't Yeah, definitely.
38:20>> But there's a certain niche of rap and we saw this with Eminem where you say the craziest thing you can and it's kind of a comedy.
38:29It sounds serious, but it's also like you're sitting the in the studio with your friends and after you say a bar, everyone's laughing and having a good time. Like it's a weird It's a [ __ ] up humor of a rap genre. You know what I'm talking about? Like I feel And those songs are fun. Like I enjoy listening to something like that cuz I find it hilarious.
38:46>> Yeah.
38:47>> Yeah. He sings them, too.
38:49>> Yeah. I don't make music like that anymore, though.
38:51>> What What are you making now?
38:53>> Uh just music about making money and stuff. Not like That's super trolly.
38:57Like >> Yeah. Like that stuff I don't really make no more.
39:00>> But you're you're making money now investing. You were telling me off camera.
39:03>> I have a couple businesses. Yeah.
39:04>> You got a couple businesses?
39:05>> Yeah. I won't say on here.
39:06>> You won't say them on here. Are they are they above board?
39:09>> No, it's just cuz I don't want my face.
39:12[laughter] >> What does that mean? Above board.
39:14>> Mean like is it legal?
39:15>> Oh yeah, they are. I swear to God. It's just my face can't be in the businesses.
39:19>> Can we talk generally about real estate?
39:21We don't have to say the LLC and where it's >> I don't do real estate yet. I'm getting into that.
39:25>> But I have learned from this guy. He's pretty [ __ ] good.
39:28>> Yeah, I'm getting into >> So, what generally like though? What?
39:31>> Cars.
39:32>> Cars.
39:32>> Cars. Yeah, like rental cars.
39:34>> Rental. That's a new one.
39:36>> I have an exotic car company, but I'm not going to say what it is >> or what state >> you have an exotic car company like involving rentals or >> Yeah, like I rent out like I have a couple exotic cars that I rent out.
39:46>> Oh, interesting. Okay.
39:48>> And then on top of that, I'm trying to get into real estate, too. Like I bought my own house, but I want to buy like section 8 properties and Airbnbs. Real estate. Yeah.
39:57>> And land and stuff like that. But >> God ain't making any money.
39:59>> I'm focusing Yeah. I'm focusing on this first, the cars, and then once I get that >> to where I want it to be and then I'll get into real estate next.
40:06>> So, do you view like you're kind cuz you're so young like and you've already been through a lot and everything, but you're kind of trying to live the American dream on the right side of history now. Meaning >> Yeah, cuz I mean I feel like a lot of people that's super rich did not play by the rules. So I feel like I already had to do what I had to do. Now I can clean everything up and do things.
40:30>> There's some fairness in that. There's some fairness in that for sure.
40:33>> Yeah. I think in this country we we really go after the street criminals, but then there's all these white collar criminals all over the place that are doing >> much as far as dollar amounts way greater crimes than getting a fraction of the time. It is a weird system.
40:48>> Yeah.
40:49>> Well, you can't get rich working a job if everybody was a boss and there'd be no workers. So >> if everyone was a what?
40:55>> A boss, then there would be no workers.
40:57So it's like at the boss kind of wants people to stay. I mean the whole system I feel like you're not going to get rich working a job.
41:03>> You're just going to >> Do you think it's set up to be that way to make money?
41:06>> For sure. Yeah, definitely.
41:08>> Cuz if everybody if you just everybody was [snorts] rich then I mean everybody was a boss and we would had no workers.
41:13I think it's who's willing to take a risk because anyone can be an entrepreneur, anyone can start a deli or a gas station or a rap business >> and it's who's willing to put themselves out there and take a risk or who wants to just >> Yes.
41:25>> Yeah, definitely.
41:27>> And you have a high you have a very high risk tolerance and that will be very useful in building >> but I take real good risk though like >> what do you mean?
41:36>> I wouldn't put my whole like all my funds on the line or my whole freedom on the line for nothing. Like I think about what can poss what's the worst that can happen and make sure I'm okay with the worst happening before I do things.
41:48>> What did like I we we kind of got off this but like forget the scamming or or the video with Tommy G and everything but like after you after you get shot like what did your family >> Well, I didn't get shot but I shot >> after after the shooting. I'm sorry.
42:03Like what what's your family saying to you? Like chill or >> Yeah. Always. Yeah.
42:08>> My mom sees nothing wrong with me. uh completely deleting everything I ever did on internet and just going to work at Walmart or just a job in general.
42:16>> I feel like that's the better >> have this conversation with her still actively.
42:19>> Yeah. Like Yeah. It should be like when you just going to stop all this.
42:23>> She doesn't like the investment side of things.
42:26>> No, she does. She don't like the rap and like the image and stuff cuz it just it just be dangerous.
42:30>> Rapping is a pretty dangerous profession.
42:32>> It is because now people come after you.
42:34>> So would you say you're a target?
42:37>> You're either very loved or you're the target. Yeah, sometimes I'll go a lot of actually hoods [ __ ] with me and places I go they [ __ ] with me, but I feel like a lot of people think it's like GTA. Like they think like as soon as they kill me, like all the money they see on Instagram just drops out of my pockets and [ __ ] Like >> they feel like I just carry that [ __ ] around everywhere. Like I'm just like Yeah. So it is a I'm a super target.
42:57>> A few dollars on you.
42:58>> Yeah, I feel like I'm a super target. Yeah.
43:02>> Yeah. It seems like that's that's really the unfortunate thing that hasn't gone away like within rap and hip-hop and particularly a lot of even if guys like quote unquote make it out. You know, the streets still follow them and we see it all the time. You know, we see guys get gunned down and things like that and like obviously you have some level of paranoia with that having concealed carry always always having you always have it on you pretty much, right?
43:24>> Yeah.
43:25>> In those states.
43:26>> Yeah.
43:28>> I mean I'm not even a street guy either though. So it's just like I just make money, >> right? But I'm saying you're now you're now a part of of the rap community 100%.
43:37And so that's how it's all going to be treated that way because people are like, "Oh, well guess what, Tag, you're in the game."
43:42>> Yeah, definitely.
43:43>> I mean, our boy Brandon just had [ __ ] 65 thrown at him by the worst shooters of all time. Thank God.
43:50>> Cuz they don't be trying to hit stuff sometimes. They just want to send a message.
43:53>> You think they were just >> People do that all the time. Yeah. They be like >> producer though.
43:57>> Yeah. But they missing 65 shots. You just wanted to send a message. Like they'd be scared too. Like people who go on drills and [ __ ] like they be scared too. Like they don't really want to kill nobody. They just want to just >> send a little message then pretend like they was trying to kill or something like >> they're hard.
44:11>> Yeah.
44:11>> You know what?
44:12>> A lot of people be scared. They don't want to do that [ __ ] >> A book written about I want to remember the title correctly, but it was about the concept that in war times that a lot of men purposely miss and that it was he he documented it was on killing by >> Whoa. And it was quite a theory that people are just are they're so against taking human life that a lot of humans will compel themselves to miss in a situation >> or they Yeah. They don't want to deal with the consequence. They just want to send a message >> like Yeah.
44:39>> But don't you think these guys may have been paid by someone to try and send a message to Brandon who he's with?
44:45>> Nah. Nah, they wasn't paid. I don't I don't think so. I don't really know too much about him, but I don't think so. I think >> what I heard on the internet >> I don't even want to I don't know.
44:55That was crazy though for people out there.
44:58>> Yeah, I feel like I feel like it was probably people he was beefing with.
45:00Whoever he was with, it was probably somebody he was beefing with and pulled like >> But it scared me because like I'm I'm friends with Brandon. I'm friends with Tommy and like since we've been friends like we always have this conversation on camera and off camera like oh some places you go like they're doing hard-hitting stories and like there's dangerous [ __ ] And the one thing you guys have both always said to me is like you feel like >> you kind of have almost like a like a press agreement like no touching because oh that's Tommy G. Oh that's Brandon Buckingham. They're here to do a story.
45:29They're not a part of this. But that facade comes down when 65 bullets are thrown at you. Whether or not >> they probably mean to hit him. No, they probably didn't mean to hit the cameraman and him. But >> it's who they were with.
45:38>> Yeah, it's definitely who they with. It wasn't It would never happen to just him, >> right? But because they're with him, it's like they knew he was with them because they were on Instagram live. I think that's that's how they found out.
45:48So they know Brandon Buckingham's there and they're still throwing bullets when you guys have always said to me like, you know, there's an understanding when we're in there. Well, I would say the facade of that has to be down a little bit now because there was not an understanding that day.
46:02>> I think it's about not interviewing rappers who are really hot and beef. It just not >> or not in their own city or because that's why it was in Chicago. So >> everything's right around the corner. So that's probably why.
46:14>> But that's also where the story is though, too. That's the thing. He's going to go talk with them.
46:17>> Yeah. It's just a risk, I guess. Yeah, >> it is a risk. That's why I got a lot of respect for what you do. But it's scary.
46:24You're trying to move to some investigative pieces though now. You've been doing the science more fun. Like the thing I sometimes struggle with going to the hood is I have all these different subjects and questions I want to ask about and I get one or two sentence responses sometimes where just nothing. It's [sighs] Sometimes it's just a lack of curiosity that is frustrating to make a piece.
46:45Whereas if I'm bringing out a ex Blackwater mercenary to show me tactical driving, how not to get kidnapped, how to shoot at targets. I we can talk endlessly. We will talk for days on end until they he boards his plane, I'll be talking to the guy and asking questions.
46:58And so um and also I want to do more we want to shine the light on things that are happening that like Kenneth Copeland or Scientology. We want to do pieces that really bring a little bit of justice back to the world and expose just a little bit more what some of these people are doing.
47:14>> Deb, did you see his Scientology video?
47:16>> I did. I did. I watch all time's videos.
47:19I really do.
47:19>> Thank you, man.
47:20>> So, you just filmed that like two months ago, I think, right? Something like that.
47:24>> That was a crazy one.
47:25>> I didn't even know what that was until I seen your video.
47:27>> Scientology.
47:28>> Yeah, >> it's crazy.
47:29>> I didn't even know. That's when I started looking it up and I think you put it in your video where they say they believe in some [ __ ] where they throw the beans in. Yeah, it was your video. I seen that and then they were kicking you out >> and they wasn't trying to talk to you and Yeah.
47:40>> Yeah.
47:41>> What What did So, you hadn't covered that before. You go down there with a Aon, Jenna, Miss Gavage, and Mark Bunker who have all been in here.
47:50>> And there's also a guy named Serge that we got to meet, Serge Delmare.
47:53>> Yeah, I don't know him, but yeah, >> man. And some of the stuff that he said was so compelling in his story and points to the the biggest thing about Scientology to me is okay, if a consenting adult decides to join and give all their money away, I feel bad for him. But when kids are born into it, forced to work >> dozens of hours a week for free, treated like absolute crap, separated from their parents, >> y >> that's that makes me like >> that's when you want to put the gloves on and just go in there.
48:21>> Who came up with that? That's crazy.
48:23>> Elron Hubard, baby. guys. Absolutely one of the most psychotic stories you'll ever hear. He was like the shittiest science fiction writer of all time. He would just write like I don't know like a version of pulp fiction that was terrible. These awful stories. I've never read them but everyone says they're terrible. And then he ended up writing I guess like Dionetics, right?
48:44And coming up with the idea of Scientology more had obviously some brilliance in creating like a cult of authority around him and then prayed on every human being's desire, which is like, you know, the ability to get wealth, the ability to be a part of something, and the ability to feel like they have something to look forward to in the afterlife.
49:04>> They thought they were saving the world.
49:05So, how would you not want to be part of the mission, >> right? And so, do they get rich when they >> No, they get poor. They get in debt massively.
49:11>> A lot of them get poor. And then you So, the person at the top gets rich.
49:15>> Yeah. Yeah. Because they pay into it and everything. And then you'll hear about like the Tom Cruz's and the Grant [clears throat] Cardones and the people who they're in it, too. Oh yeah, >> they're Scientologist.
49:25>> Oh yeah, Grant Cardone is a Scientologist.
49:27>> Dang. So they're evil finessers.
49:29>> That's what I'm saying. Grant Cardone's gonna run for governor, I want to say, in California.
49:34>> And I'm like, I do. We know what who You weren't with me when I heard that. I forget if it's California or Florida.
49:41One of them allegedly >> he's gonna be running for governor. And I'm like, how can you even get past the Scientology thing? Like the minute that comes up, you better see the debates.
49:52>> He better be cooked.
49:53>> Yeah. Like, but that's what I'm saying.
49:55Like people like that will profit off of it.
49:57>> Does he have kids?
49:58>> Yeah.
49:58>> He did the same thing. He put his kids into the Scientology.
50:02>> He was a businessman that joined Scientology. So, >> and there's certain the celebrity sphere. They get to kind of do their normal thing and enjoy their life and then they get treated like a VIP when they show up to Scientology. But then they have their worker bees who are every day doing hard labor, whether they're uh dry cleaning, they're putting concrete up, like every pretty much every internal job that they don't have to hire a contractor for, they do free labor for.
50:27>> Oh, so he's Scientology to use slaves basically.
50:31>> Yes.
50:31>> Yeah, I think that's fair.
50:32>> So that's why So he doesn't actually believe some knight came and threw beans in a volcano.
50:36>> I don't know.
50:37>> There's no way they actually believe that. I think I was about to ask there's definitely got to be something behind that. So that's what it is. You only learn that you're only supposed to learn that information after you've been in for a long time and paid a lot of money.
50:47And so then you have >> and they tell you that.
50:49>> Yes. So then you have the cost fallacy where you've already invested tens of thousands of dollars. You've already given up your entire family circle and you only people you know are in Scientology and then you learn this information and it might be disappointing but you're already so far deep that you probably don't want to get out for the most part.
51:04>> The guy who's been in charge of Scientology since Elron Hubard died is this very short guy named David Muscavage. very short.
51:12>> And he So that's since like 1986. His niece Jenna, who was in the video with Tommy, who I did a podcast with, she was born into their sea or cuz her parents are obviously like the brother and brother-in-law of of David Mscavage, which means that's like literally like in the cult of the cult like on a you're basically living in your own world. Like it's it's enclosed. They're shut out.
51:36like she knew who the president of the United States was but didn't know like what the importance of that was or anything like that >> and she lived the first 21 years of her life in this and then you know it's like very hard to disconnect >> in the building >> basically. Yeah. And then, you know, she found her way out of it and she basically it was like being born again.
51:54Like she came into a world and she's like, "Wow, like what is all this shit?"
51:58And they, you know, have tried to slander her and a lot of other things as well. And they ruined her life. But like you see the brainwashing that happens and the lack of choice she had over anything she did and the [ __ ] that they fed her. And it is impossible to not feel terrible cuz she she's not dumb. She's born into it. Like how the [ __ ] else is she supposed to do? That's what I asked, dude. How the [ __ ] is it legal?
52:20>> Is it because the higherups are in it, too, huh?
52:23>> Well, it's that and also they have like Mark Bunker can talk to this a lot because he's spent his whole life like trying to document it. But, you know, they find loopholes with the IRS.
52:33They're declared like a religious organization. There's been >> Oh my god. Yeah.
52:37>> Damn. They're super scamming.
52:39>> They're super scamming. Yeah. They're the real scammers. They're like [ __ ] up.
52:43>> Yeah. They're the next level next level scammer. you guys like so you went and like crashed the headquarters and everything like how was that?
52:51>> There's no conversations to be had. It's just they they kind of hey get out get out get out you're trespassing. I wish I was a little less juvenile with them and I wish I asked them a little more hard-hitting things at that time but I knew there was no real conversation that would be generated from them. So it didn't matter what I said to them. Um, but we the the most interesting part I think was getting to get their top flight security that guarded the celebrity center because they're kind of the equivalent of the CIA for Scientology.
53:17>> And they even got a little handsy.
53:19>> They got handsy.
53:20>> They they were they were kind of pushing me out of the the fence and I pushed them back and >> they I was expecting a law I was wondering if a lawsuit was going to happen. M >> um but I think for a lot of these cults a lawsuit is bad because now all of a sudden you have to air out all your dirty laundry in the eyes of court.
53:40There's investigations. So it's better just to be silent than it is to go after someone else.
53:46>> What their main headquarters is in Clear Water, Florida. And one of the things they do that is I mean it's sinister but it's kind of brilliant like is they buy up all the real estate around where they are and it just stays empty. So they basically create their own little ghost town there.
54:00>> It's like North Korea. Yeah, >> that is crazy. I never knew about none of this till your video.
54:04>> Oh, it's nuts, man.
54:05>> They need to make a movie on it.
54:07>> They Well, they they made a movie that's like kind of based on it that doesn't directly like go at it >> called The Master.
54:14>> It's Philip Seymour Hoffman and Wen Phoenix and I think it was it's been a while since I seen it. Philip Seymour Hoffman is supposed to be like Elron Huard.
54:23>> That's a good question.
54:24>> So, who would you rather be taken down?
54:25Like, you know how like all the rappers and gangs get Rico? Would you rather them or would you rather the Scientologist?
54:31>> Scientologist. Sure.
54:32>> So, how are they still getting away with everything then?
54:35>> It's about who you know and guess they're doing it the right way. Yeah.
54:38>> Yeah.
54:38>> They have enough resources to have a powerful front in court. And I think the religious shield helps them quite a bit as well. But there I was just reading about a cult in Spindale, North Carolina, about an hour away from Charlotte. A lady named Jane Whley, Word of Fellowship Church. the Oh, that it makes me so mad when I some of the things that they do to people there. But um like documented child abuse, documented slave labor, documented uh manipulation control, >> and somehow the and the authorities know know about it. The sheriffs know about it. And for some reason, >> well, it's because of religion,
55:17>> so you can do whatever you want as long as you just say it's a religion.
55:20>> It seems like that sometimes.
55:22>> Do you think there's more there though?
55:24Blackmail, things like that. Well, I think a lot of it is happening behind closed doors and I think they're so good at controlling people that if one person escapes to say something, they have 20 members that they've already prepared their story on he's a liar. He's >> Yeah.
55:38>> Yeah. They torture these people like in Scientology when they leave. I mean, there's campaigns against them like you wouldn't believe.
55:43>> They have people showing up. They have people they hire private investigators to tail people.
55:49>> Yep.
55:50>> I'm gonna look into that.
55:51>> Yeah. It's it's it's dark, man. I mean, we've done four in here and there's one like so when Aon and Jenna were here, they were here for a couple days. First day I recorded with a Aon, he's an ex, he was basically born >> Aon, you call him?
56:03>> Yeah. Yeah.
56:04>> Okay.
56:04>> You never saw that like that on his videos because he starts off the video with the key and Peele skit.
56:10>> Like that's like his tagline like, "Hey, Aon."
56:13>> But he was here. We recorded one day and then the next day they came back and and I did the episode with Jenna. But I don't know if you've run into stuff.
56:24When we finished recording with Aaron, someone had put a New York Scientology brochure below my mailbox downstairs and I'm like, god damn.
56:38>> So they're following them.
56:39>> Yeah, that's what I think. Jeez.
56:41>> I've never seen that before. It was below. It wasn't in my mailbox. It was below it.
56:45>> So when they're born into it and they go in a new world, what's different to them?
56:49Well, they're [ __ ] up. And I I don't say that as a slight >> like what do they believe it? Like how are they [ __ ] up?
56:55>> They got to re It's imagine you got to rewire everything you've ever known about like the axis of what it means to be here.
57:02>> You know the Truman Show with Jim Carrey?
57:04>> Yep. That's how I describe. lives entirely in his own little bubble and then he discovers there's an outside world and there's a >> an overwhelming sense of >> freedom >> but also what have I missed out on this whole time and and what's really out there and what's really real cuz if this wasn't real my entire life wasn't real so far what can I trust anymore what can I believe in anymore >> damn >> I think the Truman show actually and I I don't think there's ever been anything said about this if there has correct this in the comments I think the Truman show has some undertones of like a little shot at stuff like Scientology
57:38for sure cuz basically it's the idea just all the way Tommy just explained it but like he was in a TV show and he [clears throat] didn't know it. He was the only everyone around him was a character and he was being filmed from birth. They wanted to film someone from birth going through life. They had hidden cameras like in his medicine cabinet and [ __ ] so people around the world were watching him on a live stream his entire life and he never knew it.
58:01It's like you live in a in a separate universe and you're you're unaware and and that's how like when you talk with like Jenna who's born in the highest levels of it and spends 21 years there and she's indoctrinated by literally the leadership cuz it's her family you know I was I would just have as as we were talking I just had all these questions that would pop up like oh what what do you know about math or you know like random [ __ ] because >> they they had >> they at an enclosed environment that was, you know, like silent torture in a way. It's crazy.
58:37>> Do they listen to music?
58:39>> That was another question I asked her. I was like, "What?" I don't even remember what she said. I'm like, "What did you know about music? Like, what what did you listen to or whatever, but I can't remember if she knew any mainstream stuff or if they had like >> Scientology, artist, >> random. I can't remember. I can't even remember. There were so many things. I would just come up with something and be like, "What about this or what about that?" and she would sit there and really think about it like, "Oh no, I didn't."
59:02>> That's actually crazy.
59:03>> Yeah.
59:04>> Can you imagine that they they don't have access to Punch Made dev music in?
59:09>> We have to We have to liberate these people.
59:11>> That's what I'm saying. That's what we're doing. We're putting Punch Made Dev music in there.
59:15>> Yeah. They'll learn about the real world. They be like, "What is this Fentanel crisis? I [snorts] learned it from Punchade Dev."
59:21>> Facts.
59:22>> Where do you want to be in 10 years, Dev? Uh, I'm going to be off the internet and I'm just going to be super wealthy and helping out the world.
59:29>> Do you view success or not success, do you view happiness in life is equated to wealth?
59:34>> Nah, >> you don't.
59:36>> But it's fun to have it. But no, you just got to have a family, >> live comfortably, and take care of the people you love and around you.
59:45>> Do you want to have a big family?
59:47>> Yeah, decently sized.
59:49>> How many kids you think you want to have?
59:50>> Like two or three. Hey, what about you?
59:53>> We might have one more.
59:55>> What about you?
59:56>> I want to have several.
59:57>> Okay. Like a lot.
59:59>> Not like not like six, but you know, maybe like four. I think that'd be cool.
60:03>> My future wife will probably have to figure that one out, but you know.
60:06>> Yeah.
60:06>> It's a conversation.
60:08>> Yeah. I don't think wealth. It's just fun to chase though. I mean, >> got to do something. So, I mean, it's just fun to try to get it. It's like a video game.
60:15>> Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge, huge help.
60:21And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.
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