0:01Yeah, I I agree with you and I think I agree with you on all of it.
0:05And I want to come back to something with like soldiers who are training for war, but before we go there, just stay on the point you were just making.
0:12You know, I look at a place like Iran, I look at the things they fund, I look at the things that their leadership stands for, I look at the fact that eight or nine out of 10 Iranians, righteously so, stands against, you know, supporting the regime. They they don't like it and I I think it's wrong and I think the world would be a better place if those guys weren't in charge. But I also recognize that sometimes, as hard as it is, especially when you're dealing with a country that doesn't exactly have a top three GDP, if you know what I mean, you know, you have to let the people within that country handle their business.
0:48>> Agreed.
0:48>> And and, you know, that does suck. I'm not going to sit here and say I love that, but the repercussions of putting a hundred thousand soldiers on the ground and calling in, you know, NATO forces or something like that to start some war in the middle of a region that has a lot of oil and a lot of cultures from, let's say, a collegi faction who aren't going to like that.
1:11You know, if we haven't learned that lesson from Iraq, I I almost can't help people at this point. I'm like, you know, what what else do you need to see?
1:19Because it's also extremely important what you said. The guys who are over there fighting it, you guys are told to go over there and do it. It's not your call, you know, it's a bunch of suits in DC doing that.
1:30So, you better hope the guys in DC actually know what the [ __ ] they're doing and the last time around they didn't and I would hope enough of them learn that lesson, but sometimes I I really do worry about that.
1:40>> Same here and and I think, you know, one of the biggest problems or elements that makes those mistakes continue to repeat themselves are the incestuous relationship between higher-up military officials, big government, contracting companies, and the the Boeings and McDonald Douglasses and Raytheons and Halliburtons and you know, that whole, you know, you throw lobbying in and and you know, interests where people who are saying, "Hey, if we go to war with country X, my net worth is going to skyrocket by 20-fold in 6 months."
2:22Like, if that's not a conflict of interest then negatively influencing decision-making at the highest level possible, I don't I don't know what is, you know, because you see it over and over and over. Dick Cheney being as good of an example of that as as possible is that you know, it's you know, you can give the correlation doesn't equal causation, but I think you can just as easily say like, you can't ignore the fact that, you know, Dick Cheney's net worth did what it did from going into Iraq to 10 years after the fact and not say that's at least worth looking at, you know, and to question that is not un-American, you know, I
3:04would say it's the opposite. To not question it is un-American.
3:07Um that should be the basis of of all of our concerns are that you know, the the beauty of of [snorts] the Constitution is that that that is America's Bible that you should base your entire decision-making process off of and and why there isn't a more staunch constitutionalist approach in policy-making and and especially in foreign policy decision-making is beyond me. I I'm baffled at at at why we don't just look to that document more than we do.
3:38Other than there's money involved.
3:41>> That's what it always comes back to is the money.
3:44Now, you have friends that that you served with or that you know from the military and in the communities who plenty of friends didn't do this, but then certainly friends who took jobs, and I'm not excoriating this, but took jobs at Lockheed Martin or Northrop Grumman and some of these other places. You know, I when people look at like the evil of some of that stuff, I tend to think, you know, it's more there's always a handful of individuals who probably are evil there, and then a lot of people who are there, it's more the conformity, the group think of the organization trying to get their quarterly report done. And that leads to
4:20bad outcomes, but have you had discussions, you know, offline with with some of your friends who work in some of these places and, you know, maybe make money off of wars like Ukraine or, you know, funding wars in the Middle East about that conflict of interest, and if so, you know, what what are those conversations like?
4:39>> I I don't know anybody um on a personal enough level to where I feel like if I had that conversation with me, one, they would level with me. Two, if they didn't, I'd be able to sniff it out. That are in [clears throat] positions to legitimately benefit like what we're talking about. Like I I don't know people like I know people who have gone and worked for the Booz Allens, the Halliburtons, the Raytheons, et cetera, but nowhere near at that kind of level, you know. Uh to me, you would need to sit down with, you know, somebody who's been, you know, a a three- or four-star for a while in frankly any branch of the military, has
5:17spent time at the Pentagon, has spent time, you know, and knows joint chiefs of staff and and and that kind of level of excuse me, connection and and power again, well enough to know and and trust the conversation you're having with them because again, just nobody I know has ever been at that level.
5:36Um To me, the the tricky part is I understand the benefit of having people who have spent 30 or 40 years in the military at the highest levels advising and even sitting on boards at companies who are making products for the US military because that that's a an easy thing to understand why that's beneficial is that if private sector companies are creating products and technology for the warfighter, of course you want warfighters who have spent their entire adult lives there to be able to help advise them. So it it it is kind of a tricky how do how do you audit that or or keep it honest and make it to where it's not
6:21now influenced by hey, if you come on the board of Raytheon and you know, if you can talk with you know, the SecDef, SecWar, the Joint Chief, whatever and and get this thing to pop off and you know, you're sitting on 20,000 shares of our company and we'll give you a a 10,000 share bonus if you you know, get this thing to to be passed or this allocation of funding for you know, the new F F-40 fighter project, I mean, whatever.
6:49Like I don't know how you circumvent that or how you kind of clean house in that way because there there is a necessity for us to be a an effective war-fighting capable country to lean on the experience of military commanders and people with that experience. So that that's a tough fix. I I wish I had an answer and I I don't know what the right answer is.
7:12>> Yeah, is it even realistic to say you know, the thing we all think of which is like oh, just get the money out of politics. Like is that even >> I think it's possible or it's relatively possible or mostly possible maybe. Um you know, I I I think we actually talked about this a little bit the last time I was on, but I I think you know, where where where and when you can have super PACs and large sums of money being infused into political campaigns, there's no way it's not going to be corrupt, you know? Um because the bigger the donor, the bigger the ask. I mean, plain and plain and simple.
7:51Um and and when it takes, you know, upwards of a billion dollars to become president, um there's no way to to not have a candidate who once they get into that position is beholden.
8:05Um even with a guy like Trump, um you know, he certainly didn't use all of his own money.
8:10>> Mhm.
8:10>> Um and there's also, you know, even more money for him and his entire family to be made, um you know, by continuing to to do some of the things. I mean, you're seeing some of it with crypto of, you know, pardoning uh people that um he doesn't need you know, I don't know if you saw this but I saw this clip just yesterday or maybe the day before where uh I think the guy is >> CZ?
8:31>> CZ, you know, gets gets pardoned and and a reporter asked Trump like, "What's the deal with pardoning CZ?" He's like, "Who?"
8:37He's like, "I don't even know who the guy is." It's like, "Dude, like >> That's not great.
8:41>> help me out here."
8:42>> Yeah.
8:42>> Like you you can't say that you pardon somebody [clears throat] and you don't know who they are. Like >> At least I'll give him this, at least he's honest about it. Holy [ __ ] I mean, my god.
8:51>> to me like they're both equally unacceptable.
8:53>> Yeah, it's not great.
8:54>> If you truly don't know who he is, then you shouldn't be pardoning him. If you do know who he is and you don't want the optics of of pardoning him and what that looks like, you can't lie about it, you know?
9:05Like they're both equally terrible. You know, um >> I can't believe that's real, that is real.
9:11>> Yeah.
9:11>> He says he has no idea.
9:12>> who that is. It's like, "Okay, well, then given Biden a ration of [ __ ] for auto penning people, like that's really no different. If you're pardoning people that you have no idea who they are, like help me understand that then."
9:26>> Yep.
9:26>> Um you know, and and to me like you've you've got to hold everybody to that level of accountability, including the people you voted for, including the people who you're a fan of. Um you know, you you can't give passes to the guy that's on your team when he does something that the guy on when the other side does, you lose your mind and and throw a fit about it. So, uh like seeing stuff like that doesn't give me a lot of hope.
9:51Back to your question on the you know, finance and and money and politics. I mean, one of the things that I talked about was u- using kind of the the grand jury method of selecting politicians. Um because then there's no money in that, right? Is that i- if you're sending out a census-style survey to every region and says, "Hey, you know, in this county and this region how you know, however um you know, the districts are broken down is that let's say district A, everybody who's been a resident for 10 years, you know, is up-to-date on their taxes, not a felon, you know, there's a a handful of kind of
10:28boxes that need to be checked that says, "Hey, like this guy is is on paper at least mostly or largely trustworthy.
10:36Uh who do you think should be your congressman?" You know, and then whoever gets voted into that wins, you know? Um and just like with jury duty, like you have to submit it.
10:47Um I think that that's a good way to start. Now, that's of course not going to work for for president. But to me the the if you want to call it the beauty I I think the the important aspect of doing it that way with the House of Representatives, Congress, um congressmen and women in particular is that that is the the the primary check and balance or gatekeeper of the entire three branches of government in terms of policy deci- decision making, funding, um you know, legislation being passed, uh veto power, um you know, raising and lowering debt ceilings. I mean, there there are so many things that have to go through that
11:27branch of of government that if you have people who in in most cases don't even want to be there, but enough people in their district say this is the guy I want representing us.
11:40Again, then then he doesn't owe anybody anything. It's not something he sought out to do.
11:45Um and when he's in that position, he you know, his morals, character, the way he conducts himself, his reputation amongst his community is is at the highest level of anybody in that community. Like what better person to represent that community than somebody like that. And so, if you don't have people who, you know, want to do it in the first place, and then once they get in there, 3 weeks later their only objective is to now stay in power and get reelected. And you know, I mean, to me like you're never going to have an honest system when that's the reality of 97% of all congressmen and women that get elected.
12:21So, um I'm not saying it's a perfect fix, but I think, you know, shy of a full-blown [ __ ] revolution, which I don't want, um >> Right.
12:29>> I think that that's a good way to to start. And and by that, then you can, you know, term limits aren't nearly the problem that they are now. Um I think you could make it a single source, you know, from a funding standpoint, any type of foreign aid as a stand-alone bill. Right? And it has to be voted on and approved one at a time. And and I don't like to me it's like, "Well, that's too big of a pain in the ass.
12:52You have to wrap it into all these other bills." No, like it's your [ __ ] job.
12:57And if you're going to give our money away from a taxpayer standpoint to to other countries, you should have to answer for that. You know, you you should have to to be able to be called to the carpet and stand in front of the people who nominated you to be in that position and answer why you gave $40 billion to Ukraine this quarter.
13:17>> Yes.
13:17>> Um I think that, you know, to to pick one thing to focus on that's going to give you the most bang for your buck, that I think, you know, while not easy or without its hurdles, the um the most doable from an from in terms of actually implementing it into our government process, to me that seems like the most doable.
13:39Um because then that can keep uh the Senate, the executive branch, and in some cases even the judicial branch if they have to be nominated through that, you know, but uh to me the accountability piece just isn't there and I don't know of another way to to implement it without doing something as drastic as as something like that.
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14:32>> Yeah, at the end I love that idea, too.
14:36But you know, you're also raising a point that's like you have you have to call things both ways and there were obviously a lot of things in the last administration to be incredibly disappointed in whether it was censorship of things or taking powers that the government's not supposed to take or prosecuting political enemies. I think when you start to do those same things out of spite, you know, in this case now the opposite side got in, you're giving them exactly what they want, the people you hated because now they have the narrative to be like, "Look at this."
15:09And you know, they can do go do protests like the No Kings protest or whatever, which, you know, protests seem to be very cringe in in the modern age, but like they can point to a couple things and even if they're taking some of it out of context, it's like there's enough things that they can say, "Hey, see, we told you they were going to do this, this, and that." And they did.
15:27>> Yeah. I mean, to me the the no kings thing um to me seems a little silly in that, you know, it it the fact that it can take place uh I I think kind of disproves the the the tyranny >> That's the funny part, yeah.
15:42>> Um you know, but I mean, that is what it is, but you know, to me the the precedents being set that that we're talking about in terms of you know, going after political opponents with, if you want to call it uh you know, lawfare, I think is the is the term I've heard used.
15:58I I agree. I mean, you you did see that, you know, in the Biden administration on a number of cases, and then now you're you're seeing some of those same examples in in the [ __ ] of it is on the left, it's the see, we told you so. On the right, it's well, they did it.
16:12>> Right.
16:13>> It's like, that doesn't just set a precedence by doing the thing that you were bitching about 4 years ago, it solidifies it. And and now that becomes the norm, you know, and so now you can probably just expect that every new administration is going to go after the previous one, and and that is a horrible place for our society to be in.
16:32Um yeah, I I I don't understand uh the unforced errors.
16:37It's one thing to make mistakes. It's it's another thing um you know, to to do dumb [ __ ] that you just end up tripping over your own dick on uh and making the problem worse, and and I do see a number of examples of that happening. I mean uh it's frustrating. There's there's no two ways about it.
16:56>> It's a strange place to be, cuz on the one hand, you want to be able to say things where it's rele- where it's actually relevant and true of like, no one's above the law.
17:06But as much as you want to stick it to someone or get an individual that you think is is doing things that are wrong I think the bigger question here is how do we keep not the not the system in place. The system has a lot of problems, but how do we keep like American principles in place? And I don't want to be on on in a tough slippery slope here, but once in a while that does mean that maybe someone who probably should get some justice doesn't because it's better for the whole. It's not to say like, "Oh, you know, they're bigger than the system themselves and they prove the point that you can do it." No, it's more
17:49like let's not suddenly have something like what you said setting in every administration lawfare precedent where people, including people who whether you like them or not probably shouldn't be >> Yeah.
18:00>> prosecuted are getting prosecuted.
18:02>> Yeah, I think, you know, uh a fairly recent and clear-cut example of that is that uh Letitia James. You know, I think that that's a good example of what what she did I think is is very clearly wrong.
18:18>> Mhm.
18:18>> Um Now, to go after her for something like mortgage fraud after the fact uh in that way I think I think is I'm not going to say it's as wrong or not it doesn't even matter.
18:31Like I I also think that that it's just dumb because it it does solidify that that precedence, you know, to me I could understand saying, "Hey, if you run on a campaign where you're saying I'm going to go after the president and then you do and and there's trumped-up charges and wh- whether you think they're trumped-up or not or whatever to to me it's it's pretty obvious there was a very clear-cut political angle to um you know, what she did when she was in office. But there's also just as clearly identified political angle of going after her now the way that's that that's being done.
19:05I don't like the the lady. I think she's um you know, a terrible example for that position of authority and and should be disbarred from that. But to me that would solve it. You know, it's like, "Hey, what you did was wrong, so you can't do that anymore." Not okay, let's use the law against her and and try to put her in prison over it and Yeah, you know, it it I think the most frustrating part for me is that you know, it it it seems so incredibly childish what you see within the entire House of Representatives. I mean, really all three judicial all three executive Jesus I'm going to [ __ ] it up twice. All three branches of
19:42government. Um is that you have people acting like they're 5 years old on a playground arguing over dumb [ __ ] that ultimately is making the country weaker. I mean, the shutdown being in in what it's fifth or sixth week at this point. Um you know how long the Constitution took to draft?
20:03>> A while, right?
20:05>> So so I'm going to take that as a no.
20:07>> Yeah, that's it's definitely a no, but >> Four it took >> Four months.
20:11>> If [clears throat] you think about that, right? Our government for rapidly approaching half that amount of time can't even get the the government back to being not shut down.
20:22>> Wait, that only took four months?
20:26>> I thought it was longer than that.
20:27>> Yeah, I mean, I think most people would assume it took way longer than that.
20:30>> Yeah, I thought it was a couple years.
20:31>> If you think about the the scope, the brilliance, the authority that that document has had for as long as it's had and and how well it's worked, how quickly they were able to draft that, agree on it enough to approve it and and declare it. Um I mean, to me it's embarrassing that our government is in a position now where something like health care is is keeping the government from being able to even function properly. I mean, it it's pathetic.
20:59>> Or a bill, to your point, that's over one thing has [ __ ] 80 poison pills over totally separate things plugged into it at 12:00 when the votes at 1:00.
21:10>> Yeah, and half the guys don't show up to even vote. Yep.
21:13>> Oh, yeah. No, I I, you know, I studied the [ __ ] out of the Revolutionary War. I love that stuff. And it's actually crazy. You look at this skyline right here. They were This was one of the ground zeros of of of fighting that thing and and all the history there that happened. But, you know, those guys were so ahead of their time and had [ __ ] elephant balls to do what they did. But, to you know, I do try to think about what would they if if you just took 10 to 20 of like the main leaders of that revolution and brought them to today and took them on a bus down to Washington D.C. and just let them walk
21:53walk outside for 2 hours, what they would think. I think they'd throw up. I think they'd be like, "This is everything that we did not set this up to be.
22:02And you've taken the freedoms that we allowed for the government to be able to make decisions that where the people are represented to be used in bastardized ways so that the people can think they're represented and really just have a bunch of other things that they didn't vote for be voted on and go through."
22:22>> Yeah, to me the the one of the most fascinating things about that group of people is they were like your age or younger.
22:30>> Mhm.
22:30>> Um I think that there's parts of it that they would be amazed by in terms of how how far it's come kind of um I would say utilitarian-wise, like the the different aspects of how how much the government has grown and then they would quickly become violently ill seeing at at at where it's gone, you know. Um it reminds me of like the dad conversation. "I'm not mad, I'm disappointed."
22:57>> [laughter] >> You know, I think that's what you get from them.
23:00>> That's probably what Ben Franklin would say.
23:02>> I I think you know. Um yeah, I mean to me the the most important thing about that group of people, at least, you know, look looking back at them, obviously none of us know any of them, but but the results speak for themselves is that, you know, it wasn't any less messy then. Like they argued, disagreed, fought, insulted >> Mhm.
23:22>> uh each other just as much as as takes place today.
23:26But the big thing that that they did very differently again and and this isn't up for debate. I mean, you you can see the historical record of they figured out ways to compromise and and get down the road and and move on.
23:41Uh and and we don't seem to do that. I mean, you know, it's like they were they were mature enough to be able to see the forest for the trees and and and move on and and figure out how to negotiate in a way uh where it's a a net positive impact on on society, generally speaking.
23:58>> I think part of the problem today, and it's not the whole problem, but it's a piece of it, is that politicians are so beholden to people behind keyboards at all times.
24:11Meaning, if they do the right thing, and by right thing I mean compromise on something that's bigger that better for the bigger picture, they get excoriated online, including by people who aren't real sometimes and, you know, campaigns that are run against them to, you know, try to remove them from power or whatever, such that they always cower to the madness of the crowds. It's where democracy actually works against itself and what it's supposed to be. And that's one thing, I'm not saying those guys back then didn't have to deal with that, but they didn't deal with it anywhere near the scale or instantaneous scale that that
24:45we deal with it today.
24:46>> No, and and especially from a foreign influence standpoint. You know, if you think about even just 30 years ago, for any state actor to actively engage in and influence any policy in the United States was incredibly difficult from a propaganda standpoint, right?
25:04Because at that time, let's say 1990 [clears throat] or even 2000 really, um you know, for any other country to express an opinion, to influence a generation, you had to either be on the news, in some sort of publication, whether it's a book, a magazine, a newspaper, etc.
25:24uh or on the radio.
25:26That's not very easy to do, you know, when there's editorial gatekeeping and, you know, human beings in a place of being able to look at this and say, "Who is this? Where is this from?" No, we're not we're not publishing that.
25:37None [clears throat] of that is the case anymore, you know, and and so now you can have you know, bot farms of of thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, potentially millions of fake accounts that don't seem fake, you know, that are blasting propaganda just nonstop. Um and you combine that with you know, a now two generations, Millennials and Gen Z, of kids who have grown up where the majority of their political and and governmental influence comes from their phone.
26:11>> Yes.
26:11>> You know, or or from social media. So, the entire planet, in a very nefarious way, has direct access to every single American citizen all of the time, you know? That's never been the case ever before. Now, it works both ways. I mean, we have access to to them also even in places like North Korea or Iran where >> Oh, yeah, we do it, too.
26:32>> Yeah, you know, um but I I I think, you know, that's why you see such um such a breeding ground for fanatical, you know, type of positions and um you know, distrust and and then it feeds into the government machine that exists now where I think to your point, you know, when have sitting congressmen who are more worried about how their Tik Tok reel is doing, you know, and how many followers they have on Instagram or X, uh you know, it turns into a very rock starish so, you know, A-list celebrity type of mentality, you know, where it's like they're it's like don't don't forget you work for us, right?
27:11It's not the other way around. Like you don't tell us how things are going to be. We're supposed to tell you.
27:16And, you know, it seems like most of them get in this position where now they have this big following and everything they post they're they're watching and how how people are reacting and are those people even real and, you know, so you have this very skewed perception of reality on on both ends of the spectrum.
27:33>> I think you're giving it too much credit. I think it forget like, you know, Hollywood actors and whatever. I think it's below that. I think it's like high school.
27:40>> Yeah.
27:40>> I think it's like a high school popularity contest with these people and you're 1,000% right. They're worried about the things that are just going to keep them in power.
27:48>> Yeah.
27:49>> You know, and it can And, yeah, it's a separate conversation. We don't need to go into it. But, an obvious point seeing as your system that's preferred is not set up right now is that the people who are in there sometimes are in there forever. There's no term limits. They're [ __ ] dying, literally dying of Alzheimer's on the floor.
28:03>> Yeah.
28:04>> You know, and yet representing the people just cuz they're that politically entrenched. It's It's crazy and, you know, I don't You talk about the influence and the ability for that to happen more than ever these days. Of course you're correct. I don't think there's a funnier or really sadder example though of when you talk to people who are either very pro-Israel or very anti-Israel who both will tell you to your face that their side doesn't have an aspect of that. I'm like, are you kidding me? Every one of you has [ __ ] 11,000 likes 1 minute into a tweet.
28:38>> Yeah.
28:39>> I know that's not real. I know that both sides of these issues are propagandizing. I'm not making a commentary on who's right and who's wrong here. I'm just saying in general.
28:47That's the world world we're living in.
28:48Click, click, money, money, view, view.
28:50>> Yeah.
28:51>> And it's sad.
28:52>> Well, yeah, and it's compounded by, you know, the joke you made about my uh lion rescuing the deer is that how much of that is even real, you know? Cuz I've had I'm sure I'm sure you have, too.
29:02I've had very pro-Israel folks on the show and very pro uh Palestinian folks on the show. And and when there's this just incessant, you know, this is a fact, this is a fact, this is a fact, this is a fact. It's like, wait a minute, you know, like, can we try to real-time fact-check some of this stuff, you know?
29:21And it's like it gets to the point where it It's like I I don't know who to believe. You know, so many of the things that are being said, you know, have been proven to be false.
29:30>> Mhm.
29:30>> And there's examples on both sides of that.
29:33And so very quickly, it's like, I'm not sure that I believe anything. Like, I don't know what to believe. And And now, like, I can't even believe my own eyes or ears because technology has gotten to the point where it makes it impossible to discern something's whether something is actually real or not. Um you know, which which to me, I think kind of puts the nail in the coffin as far as the the technology and propaganda influences that you almost have to just kind of tune it out entirely. And And then it defeats the whole purpose of even having that as a as a technological capability.
30:08Um you know, but I've I've found myself doing that where it's like I I rarely watch, you know, news or or follow accounts where um you know, there's very clear-cut slanted agendas being pushed on it. And And, you know, I find myself just kind of ignoring all of it because I I don't even know what to believe anymore.
30:27>> It actually goes back to another meditation of Marcus Aurelius, ironically, where he's like, what's what one person sees is not the truth, it's a perspective.
30:35>> Yeah. [snorts] >> You know, you can take the You can take the image and go like this and see something.
30:43But if you could go like this, you see something entirely different.
30:46And I try to remind myself that all the time, but it gets hard because to your point, the the war that we saw in Gaza and the war that we're still seeing in Ukraine are I I would have in the past actually, I think, been wrong to call them the first like iPhone wars, which on a major scale they are.
31:10The better way to put it though, unfortunately, is they're the first wars that of of a distortion of reality because you do have an aspect of misinfo videos that include AI or straight-up acting and propaganda, and that goes for every side on on both of these issues on on on both of those wars. And it it makes it really [ __ ] depressing because I do my best here, just like you do, to have the different sides represented and everyone makes their case and let everyone else out there decide it for themselves. Once in a while my opinions come in as well, but like people want these answers to be perfectly black or white, and they're
31:51just not.
31:52>> Yeah.
31:53>> You know, you can sit here I would actually argue in both of those wars, you look at the leadership on both sides who are different, right?
32:02There's not really a lot of good right now. There are not a lot of good men in those positions that I would argue probably none. And so you may have a situation like, oh, you don't like that Russia attacked Ukraine. I Hey, I agree with you.
32:18There may also be some some diplomatic decisions that were made on the build-up to that that weren't right that that also forced a little bit of that. Say what you want about Putin, I certainly don't like him.
32:29But then that also doesn't mean that like that means the leadership in Ukraine is like the second coming of Jesus. I I news for you, they're not.
32:36>> Yeah. You know? But people it like melts their brain if if you bring nuance into it and talk to someone who has an opinion in either direction on any of those matters. And that that makes me really sad because you know, it ends up being these Twitter finger wars with, you know, bots saying 33,000 likes, 104,000 likes, whatever, this number of comments. And while we're counting all those likes and comments 10 people are dying, 20 people are dying, someone's son is gone. You know what I mean? And it's just like it feels like we we're totally desensitized to it.
33:12>> I agree 100%. I I do think it's important to point out that I think the the history of of warfare and and how it's covered how how that story is told from a historical and and even when it's happening a current event standpoint has always been slanted.
33:33>> Yes.
33:34>> You know, you look at state-run media which was largely largely the case in every country up until around Vietnam, I would say. Vietnam I think was at least it seems like kind of the first test bed for real-time war correspondents.
33:53>> What do you got?
33:54>> Got Cronkite up there.
33:54>> Oh, yeah.
33:55>> Yeah.
33:56>> You know, you were seeing footage that's relevant, you know. You go back to Korea, World War II, everything prior to that.
34:03Um and and especially World War I and before it's newspapers that you know, it so it's it's so incredibly delayed um that you know, every country has an ability to tell the exact story that they want told.
34:19So, it's not that it's necessarily any different. To me it's a scale issue, you know, it's it's a scale and reach issue is that now you have individuals who can do it and basically every individual, you know? And so I think when you couple that with Western societies who largely lack struggle, like we were talking about at the very start, and they need something to get behind, it makes it even easier for them to be manipulated into saying this is my cause, this is my my thing, this is what I want to get behind, this is what I'm passionate about. And so it's just by orders of magnitude, it's it's highlighting and and kind of
34:56putting that uh here's the the agenda or the slant on the story that we want told. It's it's magnifying it and just blowing it completely out of the water and in all of those same ways, just way worse.
35:08>> Yeah.
35:09Now, you I you actually did a recent podcast that I didn't watch.
35:14>> I appreciate that.
35:14>> on >> [laughter] >> Sorry.
35:16Part of it was >> I appreciate the support.
35:17>> Part of it be was because I wanted I knew you were coming on and I kind of wanted to see like where you were at with things, but it was it was a few weeks ago you put one out with I believe an ex-special forces guy talking about the Israel-Palestine thing, and this was an issue where he had been pro-Israel and now he's pro-Palestine. And so you were getting I think it was like 4 hours long, too, so you were really getting that perspective on it. But now that we do have this, you know, tentative, I'll call it, peace deal where you know, it's not the continuing barrage at least at the moment.
35:56How how how do you view this thing? Do you have any hope, not even necessarily for like sustained peace and a two-state solution in the Middle East, but for like some form of I even dare to say this, like normalcy?
36:09>> Yeah. I I mean, the short answer is I don't [ __ ] know.
36:12>> Yeah.
36:13>> Like I I I don't even know what being hopeful looks like almost because it's been so distorted for a long enough time to where again, it's it's so hard to believe what anyone who's hyper-passionate on either side, it's hard to believe them.
36:31Um one of my litmus's I would say, and I don't know if if you find yourself subscribing to the same kind of methodology when you talk to people about deep things that they're passionate about is that the the more emotional somebody typically gets about something, I I find myself the the less likely it is that I start to believe them.
36:53>> Mhm.
36:54>> Um you know, and and it's not to say that automatically if somebody's emotional about something that they're lying.
37:01The reason I I bring that up is that, you know, if there's one thing I've learned, and I again, a lot of it stems from dog training, a lot of what I've learned about people is actually from training dogs and training dogs for people, training people how to handle the dogs that I've trained for them.
37:15Like you you learn an incessant amount about human psychology and canine psychology, the parallels, etc. The reason I bring that up is that there's a very kind of poignant um adage that I I always remind myself, especially in dog training and interviewing people, is that when emotion runs high, logic runs low.
37:38Every single [ __ ] time. And so, kind of naturally, like the more emotional somebody gets, that the less logic and reason you see infused into that perspective because it's clouded.
37:50Uh when do we make our worst decisions?
37:52When we're emotional. When do we make the most mistakes? When do we panic? You know, when when when are we the most impulsive? When are we the most mean?
38:00When we're emotional, you know? On the flip side, when are we the most calculated and the most logic driven, you know? It's it's when you're not emotional, when when you're using logic and reason to to sift through and and sort through different components of whatever issue you're talking about. And um you know, again, like entrepreneurship, if you're pissed cuz somebody didn't show up on the show. [ __ ] that guy, he's not coming you know, cuz you're mad about it. It's like, okay, take a step back for a second.
38:27Think about the big picture of the show.
38:29Does it make sense to do whatever, you know, direction you want to take the show or whatever? How much of that is an emotional decision versus a rational one?
38:37And like, show me a time where the emotional decision is the right one.
38:42Like, it it it generally doesn't happen, you know? And and so, again, just like when I see people, you know, mudslinging [clears throat] and name-calling and raising their voice and sitting on the edge of their seat and you know, everything about their body language says I'm I'm angry about this.
38:57I'm emotional. Like, I I'm not able to even control my own physical response to the question that you just asked me.
39:04Like, that tells me a lot about what the [ __ ] you're saying.
39:08Like, how you're saying it, all of the different nuances nonverbally that you're communicating tells me more than than what you're actually saying, you know? And so, those are the parallels that I see, you know, when there's these issues that that people get really, really heated about. It's like, that that immediately puts me in this position of of being even more skeptical than I was before.
39:29And so, you know, in terms of where my position is, it's like I I in a lot of ways don't really have one. Or almost have a fatigue with the entire issue in itself be- because of that is because it's so toxic and so nasty on both sides where it's like, if if you can't And again, it goes back to the the politics side of it. Like, if you can't hold your own side to the same level account. Like, if if either side is going to say, "We've done nothing wrong. We are the victim here in every single instance." Like, that's not accurate.
40:02>> nonstarter.
40:03>> Yeah, it's like, how how are we going to have a conversation when you start with saying something that that is frankly impossible?
40:10>> Right.
40:11>> Um, you know, so Yeah, it's really the whole thing has worn me out to where like I'm I'm kind of over talking about it for for those reasons.
40:20>> Yeah, I was actually we were talking about doing a debate in here. This is like towards the end of the summer, beginning of the fall, between two people on very opposite sides of the issue.
40:34And then when we were going to go schedule it is right when the peace deal happened. And one of them I actually still have to call next week or or this week and and talk to him about it, but the other one I got to talk to the day and I said, you know, I like you and fatigued with this. And secondly, the idea of having the debate was also cuz it's an ongoing complete like immediate conflict at the moment.
40:58And now like I'd like to see the temperature go down a little bit. That would be good for all. I'm not saying it solves all the issues or anything like that, but it does feel like the bots have won. And I don't [clears throat] mean any bots on either side. I mean just in general, it feels like the bots have successfully made this the issue that is at the center of everything, no matter how you look at it. And that is just not the case. It is a big deal. It is horrible what's going on. It is consequential to the world. I don't want to like undercut it. But when you can't talk about a single thing going on in society without
41:33mentioning Israel, Gaza, you're probably looking at it not quite the right way. And when you say people get emotional about it, the thing that keeps coming in my head is that I have not talked with a single person who is hardcore on one side of the issue that like either one who is not extremely emotional about it. Which tells me, guess what? The overall answer across 75 to 100 years is somewhere here.
42:01>> Right.
42:01>> Imagine that.
42:02>> Yeah.
42:03Yeah, I mean it's you know, I try to conduct myself that way all the time for that exact reason.
42:08Is that I know for me like the more emotional somebody gets, the less I listen to them.
42:13You know, it turns into the the Charlie Brown teacher, you know, where you're just you're just drowning it out and not even paying attention.
42:20Uh but yeah, I think more importantly is that again it's just a reflection of of where their head's at and it's not in a inappropriate head space to actually have a a reasonable discussion with with somebody on anything.
42:33>> I was reading this the other day back when the ancient Roman Empire was at its peak and there were all kinds of military campaigns, literally the way the generals would make a decision >> [clears throat] >> was when they would be faced with something that was extremely difficult or high stress or the essence of time certainly was not on their side, they would step back and ask themselves as a rule, "What would I wish upon my worst enemy right now if they were in my position?
43:09What decision would I want them to make?"
43:12And it was why they were able to be so successful for so long because they implemented this rule in that it took it would literally take the emotion out of the situation because the answer was always something that was highly emotional, reactionary, and anger-driven rather than tactical and strategic-driven. And that is something we could all take a lesson from in society today.
43:33>> Yeah, and and again I you can see that in in all walks of life.
43:38You know, um even things that are not nearly as serious, you know, whether it's playing a game, business, relationships, what have you. Um you know, personal relationships, you know, when you're when you're upset with somebody, you know, is that the time to talk about serious life-changing decisions? No, it's not cuz you're you're going to say things you either don't mean or that are overblown, you know, you're going to make irrational decisions that are based on emotion and not logic and um yeah, I just say I think it's a mistake and and you know, to me the the way somebody acts when they're angry with somebody
44:14also tells you a lot, you know, um I I I think again just as much in personal relationships not to turn this into a Dr. Phil episode, but you know, what one thing kind of in that [snorts] same vein that I remember hearing that I really liked is listen to people when when they tell you things when they're mad.
44:33>> Mhm, yeah.
44:34>> Because it's something they've been wanting to tell you for a long time.
44:37It's been something they've been thinking about and wanted to tell you for a long time. And so to me there's an element in in that and that you know, it's like people when they're discussing these things are are having those moments of lashing out and and and being mean about things and and overblowing things, but I love that um that Roman Empire aspect of of strategy looking at it that way which I think sounds like it it in a in a large way goes in line with Sun Tzu and and knowing your enemy in in that same same way, but maybe in a roundabout way, but um yeah, like to me the the dumbest part about all of
45:17this is that these are lessons that we as human beings have known for millennia.
45:21And we still [ __ ] them up, you know.
45:23>> Well, we forgot about De Blasio 4 years ago. You think we're going to [laughter] forget about a [ __ ] lesson from 2000?
45:28>> Yeah, probably.
45:28>> I mean?
45:29>> Yeah, yeah. Sadly.
45:30>> You know, what that rule does though, that what the Roman generals would do is it made them look at themselves from outside their bodies if they were watching themselves in their own documentary.
45:40>> Yeah.
45:41>> You know, if it's a hard thing to think about. So sometimes I I do try to think about that. I remember Joe Rogan used to talk about that all the time where he's like, "Imagine every day there's a movie being filmed of you and what you're doing is being captured. How would you act and what would you do?"
45:55It's one thing to think that concept be like, "Oh, of course." It's another thing then to live throughout the day, especially when you're alone, and actually like put that visual into place and not do these things, and maybe not sit here and scroll on your phone for 15 minutes and wonder what that would look like. But, when you are in a group of people like that in a high-stress situation, and you can you can do a literal exercise that forces you to do that, it's amazing that good decisions often get made. And by amazing, I mean not amazing at all.
46:24>> [laughter] >> Boring.
46:25>> Yeah.
46:25>> Calculated.
46:26>> Yeah.
46:26>> Not exciting. Uh yeah, I mean it's a brilliant way to look at it, you know.
46:30Uh if there's one way to kind of keyhole or or force yourself to uh do the right thing when nobody's looking is is view it that way, >> Yeah.
46:38>> you know, imagine everybody can see what you're doing right now. Are you still going to do that thing?
46:42>> Yeah.
46:42>> The answer is no, then there's a reason for that, you know, um which I love. Is that coin providing some solace, some comfort for you right now?
46:49>> Absolutely, I'm going >> [laughter] >> It's kind of It's kind of hot.
46:53>> I'm one I'm one of these people like you put some in my hand, I'm going to use it as a prop.
46:59>> it.
46:59>> Oh, yeah, it's just how I am. Like yesterday, we had this guy Gus Gonzales in here.
47:05He's a cave diver around the world, does crazy [ __ ] and he gave me like this cave line at the beginning, and I realized the whole time I was like going like this. [laughter] And that. So, if it's not this or something else, I just I don't know. It like helps me think. So, the coin's giving me a little inspo today cuz I got a fellow Marcus Aurelius fan in here.
47:23>> I I actually think the um the if it's don't true, don't say it if it's not right, don't do it. I think that's Epictetus actually. I don't know if uh >> Damn it.
47:32>> couldn't look that up, but >> Did we get that wrong?
47:35>> Did I get that wrong?
47:37>> That's what I'm saying.
47:38>> Yeah. Could be.
47:39>> I'm here singing your praises as to what you got on the coin. It might not be the right guy.
47:43>> Well, no, Mar- Marcus Aurelius is not >> true, don't say it. No, it's Marcus Aurelius.
47:46>> Okay.
47:47>> I was going to say, I feel like I heard him say that.
47:49>> Yeah.
47:49>> You you heard him read him say that.
47:51>> I read heard him say that. I audio book heard him say it.
47:53>> Well, I watched that movie. I mean, maybe, you know.
47:56>> Oh, yeah. Have you Have you watched the second one?
47:58>> May You know, I actually did recently.
48:01>> Yeah.
48:02Were you >> think?
48:03>> Um >> Gladiator we're talking about, by >> Yeah. I'm almost embarrassed to admit this cuz it's stupid, right? That I would be so distracted by something so trivial, yet I found myself You probably know what I'm going to say.
48:15Denzel's accent in in the movie >> [laughter] >> is so [ __ ] out of left field.
48:23I was distracted by it.
48:25It's like he he's one of the best actors of our time. How how did you not do a better job at sounding like everybody else?
48:33>> Here's the thing, he was amazing in the movie. But if you go what And I'm like the biggest Denzel fan ever.
48:39>> Same here.
48:40>> go watch his entire career, I think Denzel made a decision very early on >> This is me.
48:45>> that this is how I talk, [laughter] so no matter what the role is, the one thing that will not change is I'm from Mount Vernon and this is how I sound.
48:54>> Yeah. And and I I want to clear something up before the comment section explodes, which it probably already will before they hear me say this. It's not a race thing.
49:04>> [laughter] >> All right.
49:04>> It wasn't.
49:05>> I know >> You really went there?
49:07>> No.
49:08No, the the reason I bring that up cuz I found myself Did you watch Napoleon?
49:12>> I did not. I heard it was terrible.
49:14>> For the exact same reason. It it it's equally ter- like there there's an element of of the accent that that just does not fit so bad to where it like it it at least for me, I mean, maybe my simple mind is is that like I just found myself distracted by it.
49:31>> Mhm.
49:32>> Like and it again, it's almost embarrassing to say like, can't you look past that? It was distracting. It It was that distracting. Um Overall though, I actually did really like the movie.
49:43>> I you know, I'm not happy they made it because they made a perfect film the first time.
49:49Every frame of that is told in the most beautiful, perfect, visually appealing way possible.
49:57But, they did make it. And for all the [ __ ] that it got, I found myself disliking it a lot less. I think visually it was incredibly done. Some of the storytelling was a little bit stale and a little bit repeated. You know, Pascal was put in not the best spot to almost try to be like a repeat like son of Russell Crowe.
50:19You know what I mean? But, it was not like I was entertained by it and I I thought it was good and I do like anything like ancient Rome. So, I wasn't like really pissed about it, but you know.
50:32>> Do you think they could have done a a better job casting-wise for uh Pascal?
50:38Could Could they have had a a more physically dominant pres- presence-wise guy play that role and and it would have been a better fit? I think so.
50:47>> I mean, he he looked pretty good. I see what you're saying. It wasn't quite like Russell Crowe looking like he was peeking to go fight someone on the street of Australia like like back in the day, but I I think he was like a little limited by the script. By the character. I like I I I think he kind of had to play to that. It's kind of like what Brad Pitt thought about Troy, which I actually think is is a underrated, misunderstood movie.
51:14Everyone who was in that movie hated it.
51:16>> Really?
51:16>> Every single person. Peter O'Toole said he walked out 15 minutes in and that was a disgrace. Brad Pitt said it was the biggest mistake of his career. Orlando Bloom can't even watch it because he hated the whole thing and hated the scene where he had to crawl back to his brother.
51:29>> Really?
51:29>> But, like you know, it's actually, especially if you watch the director's cut, it's a really solid movie. It doesn't have like the mystery and stuff like that like Brad Pitt was saying, but it's well done and Brad Pitt was a guy who didn't necessarily go all the way with the accent, but it was just enough that like >> Yeah.
51:48>> he wasn't trying too hard and he kind of nailed the stoic Achilles.
51:53>> Yeah.
51:54>> I thought.
51:55>> Yeah, I thought it was a great movie. I had no idea that the entire cast hated it.
51:59>> Yeah, there maybe part of it was like it's like such a well-known story that they were like, "Well, we got to put some spin on it to keep the audience in suspense." But I don't know. I literally rewatched it like a month ago, the director's cut.
52:13>> Yeah.
52:13>> It's it's I'm not going to sit here and say it's The Godfather, but like it's really [ __ ] good.
52:18>> Yeah.
52:19>> You know, it's going to be interesting to see how Nolan does the Odyssey though.
52:22>> Yeah.
52:22>> Cuz that's the sequel.
52:24>> Yeah, and I I can't imagine him [ __ ] anything up.
52:26>> No.
52:27>> So, yeah, I'm I'm excited for that one.
52:29>> I would watch anything Christopher Nolan does.
52:31>> Yeah.
52:31>> He's so like even like Inception the movie is a movie that's so hard to follow and I only ever watched it once, but like even that one everything else is done so well that at the end you're like, "I'm not really sure what happened, but that was a good 2 and 1/2 hours."
52:50>> Yeah. Do you have a favorite of his?
52:54>> Dark Knight.
52:55>> Yeah.
52:56>> Dark Knight is a perfect film start to finish and like Nolan shot that beautifully and of course like I can name every film. Like Interstellar obviously is unbelievable. You know, I think Dark Knight Rises is an unbelievable movie that was that was misunderstood at the time it came out, but Dark Knight the thing that does have to be said is like this is not hindsight 20/20 of like, "Oh, Heath Ledger died so we're going to say nice things about him."
53:24Heath Ledger in every frame of that movie is perfect.
53:28There is not a thing he does with his body that's wrong. There is not a tick of his face that moves in the wrong direction. There is not one [ __ ] tone or motion of the voice that's off. Every single thing is so perfect that he took the most cartoonish super villain like ever.
53:46And even though you know this is a superhero movie where things are literally supposed to not be real, you were suspended in belief that like this is a 100% [ __ ] real. This guy exists.
53:57>> Yeah.
53:58>> He was like he's amazing and Nolan obviously captured that great, but yeah, I've I've that's that's a top five or six movie of all time for me.
54:07>> Yeah.
54:08>> What about you? What's your favorite Nolan?
54:10>> Interstellar all day long. That's my favorite movie of all time. So, um like hands down. It's absolutely my favorite, you know.
54:18>> So good.
54:19>> Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, uh yeah, just everything about it.
54:23I love movies like that also. I'm not really a sci-fi guy generally speaking.
54:28Um but that movie like has enough I could see that happening in it where it doesn't feel like it's not real, you know.
54:37And yeah, just the the story and to me there's a special part of it where the relationship between um Well, I'm Matthew McConaughey. I can't remember his uh Is it Coop?
54:51>> Cooper.
54:51>> Yeah.
54:51>> Um it's my favorite movie of all time, clearly.
54:54Um between him and his daughter that that just really resonates with me, you know, being a father of two of them. Um there's a that part of the story for me uh I think is what seals the deal for it, I think.
55:07>> What's the line? Love is the one thing that doesn't bend to time and space.
55:12>> Only space.
55:13>> Yeah. I I think, but to your point like you say sci-fi, there's you know, they had Kip Thorne the legendary physicist work on that film and there were a lot of physicists they're never going to say it's perfect, but that have talked about it and said like, "Hey, that actually there's a lot that they >> Got right.
55:29>> got right there." And the way that it was portrayed and then later I think when we got the first imagery of a real black hole probably like five years after the movie came out or something like that. People were like holy [ __ ] Nolan kind of nailed it.
55:42>> Yeah.
55:42>> Ahead of time. So yeah, I mean it's a it's a perfect >> Yeah.
55:46>> perfect film and it does make you think about a lot of stuff. One of the things about Christopher Nolan with his films is that looking back on it now hindsight 2020, he's a guy who seems to quietly like I've never heard him talk about society >> Mhm.
56:03>> and stuff like that, but in his films he goes he has his finger right on the pulse of where things are. I noticed when I watched Dark Knight Rises again recently which was filmed in 2011 and came out in 2012. I was like, oh [ __ ] Like there's a lot about so it's a superhero movie has a some crazy plots, but like there's a lot about society like elites versus everyone you know, the the pain that comes after chaos that I'm looking at today and I'm going, woo.
56:37>> Yeah.
56:37>> He knew what was going on.
56:38Interstellar's another one that has some themes about you know, us being able to be on this planet that is the years go by you're like, huh.
56:45>> Yeah.
56:46>> Maybe that's not outside the realm of possibility.
56:49>> Yeah.
56:50>> And then yeah, DCU and then me over here of course Oppenheimer and everything who was a guy ahead of his time for multiple different reasons.
56:58You know, he told that story really well.
56:59>> Yeah.
57:00Yeah, I can't think of anything he's done that I wasn't impressed with, you know, but >> An amazing dude, no doubt about it.
57:08>> For sure. So we'll see what he does with the Odyssey, but back to some of the stuff we were talking about we're starting to work our way around the world and things going on. I always like to get your opinions on these things, but one of the things that I feel like has gone really under the radar while everyone's so distracted fighting on Twitter over [ __ ] Israel and Palestine is that you still have other major countries around the world making moves and doing things that matter at scale cuz we're talking about huge GDPs and obviously the largest of which is China. You know, you're talking about
57:44a billion people, a place that's run by a communist party leadership that rules with an iron fist, a place where all of their innovation that is capitalized is still owned by the government, so it's one in one with them, a place that does mass surveillance on us. And obviously we just had a TikTok deal go through to stop that part of it, but there's a bunch of people that we don't know where they are or where how they got in, basically, who have come through the border and set up shop around our military bases and farmland here. We have a reverse opium war going on with them. They've bought up influence around
58:18the world with ports and economic development in places that can never pay back the debt, whether it be in Africa or Europe or South America, and their GDP continues to be almost hand in hand with ours. So, do you you know, we had talked about this a bit last time and I'd love to see where we're at now, like a year and a half later. Is this still like if you were pointing at your number one list of concerns over the next 10 to 15 years, is China still at the top of that list?
58:47Mhm.
58:49Maybe.
58:50Maybe.
58:51I would say it's a it's a tie between them and ourselves.
58:57Um you know, [clears throat] I'm more worried about just like in in the Roman Empire, the collapse within more so than I'm worried about them being able to um defeat us in a more overt way.
59:10Now, I think it's impossible to argue that they don't have a heavy influence in in our collapsing of of ourselves within our
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