0:01I had written a lot about child trafficking. I I'd written a book called the Franklin Scandal, which Epstein is almost a carbon copy of the Franklin Scandal. And so I had that going for me.
0:13And plus, I've done a lot of anti-child trafficking activism. I I've spoken at a number of conferences.
0:19>> So when I showed up, it's not like I'm some reporter that's looking for a salacious scoop. I I really wanted just and and this was 2011 and nobody was going to these attorneys in 2011.
0:38So I went down to Florida and I just I I'd had the Franklin scandal published about two years earlier and it we couldn't get anyone to buy it. I spent seven years writing that book.
0:54>> Seven years.
0:54>> Seven years on that book. How did you for I mean we're going to get into the background of that as well cuz that's a forgotten one and obviously you're like the guy on it but how did you initially even get into investigating the Franklin scandal?
1:06>> Well, it's kind of a weird story. I was sitting at uh I was pitching articles to a magazine editor.
1:12>> Okay.
1:13>> And I'd written about the Hell's Angels.
1:15I'd written about serial killers. You know, I'd written about mobsters. And um so he just kind of pegged me as a guy that writes about dark stuff. And so he said, "Pitch me dark stories."
1:29[laughter] And I said, "You know, I mean, how I mean, how dark do you want to go? I mean, Satanists, Nazis, you know, [laughter] you know what?
1:38How dark?" And then he goes, "And I and that glint in an editor's eye." You can always see that glint. And he goes, "Satanists."
1:49>> So I had a simple plan. And whenever anybody says they have a simple plan, then you know it's not going to be a simple plan.
1:58>> No.
1:59>> So I had a a simple plan. I was gonna hang out with some Satanists. I was going to go to a black mass and then I was going to write an article. Would have been an easy pretty easy money.
2:08That actually is straightforward. Just go straight to the signup sheet.
2:11>> Yeah.
2:13>> Hey guys, three quick things. Number one, if you haven't subscribed, please subscribe. It's a huge huge help. Number two, if you'd like to join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes, you can join via the link in my description or in the pin comment below. And number three, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make content from the show and make money, you can join via the Discord link in my description below.
2:34>> I found uh some Satanists to be very unsavory >> and then I found some Satans to be less unsavory.
2:42But [clears throat and cough] as a writer, when you're looking at a subject, you're looking at tangental stories.
2:52And I came across a story about a cult called the Finders.
2:58And two Finders were in a Tallahassee park with six kids. And the kids looked like Reagga Muffins. And these guys were dressed in suits. And the kids looked like Reagan Muffins. So, uh, concerned citizen called the Tallahassy Police Department. The Tallahassy Police Department took one look and they arraigned the finders on multiple counts of child abuse and then put the children protective services.
3:22And actually, I have the uh Tallahassy police report. A doctor said that two of the kids showed signs of sexual abuse.
3:31Mhm.
3:32>> And I acquired a US customs report about that investigation and the the US customs I believe got involved because they thought that child child abuse material was involved. So, I got the customs report on on that investigation and the last and it's written by uh special agent Ramon Martinez >> and the last page of that document says of that investigative report says the CIA has made this an internal matter and there will be no no more investigation.
4:13I'm I'm paraphrasing. And then that just blew my mind. I mean, first of all, the CIA isn't supposed to operate in the United States. I mean, that's never stopped them, but legally they're not allowed to. And then, why would the CIA go to bat for a bunch of a strange cult that's seemingly doing ominous things to children?
4:38So, that was kind of a big bang for me.
4:40I mean, at at that point, I became willing to entertain ideas that I otherwise wouldn't have entertained. And then bouncing around on the internet was kind of a similar story in Omaha. And there was a a documentary that had been made about it, but the document the the uh plug had been pulled on the documentary before it was finished, but the either the director or the producer uh released a a very rough cut of it and it was bouncing around the internet and there was a former state senator that had written a book about it, but it wasn't I mean, you could tell that something went down, but people had blown it up to like it
5:35was an interstate child trafficking network. Uh that it was connected to the CIA, that was connected to Washington DC, that it was connected to blackmail, much like what we were seeing with Jeffrey Epstein, and that they were plundering Boytown, which is the distinguished Catholic orphanage in um uh outside of Omaha for kids. So I had a you know I decided to look into it. I've studied philosophy in college and um Socrates said that you should approach everything agnostically. On my best days I can do that. So I decided to approach this but I knew that something had gone down. I I wasn't sure of
6:17exactly what it what had gone down, but I knew that I I thought that there were probably some like there was a ring >> in Omaha of maybe wealthy guys that that had molested the kids.
6:28>> So when I got to Omaha, >> what what year is this, Nick?
6:31>> This is uh 2002 2003.
6:34>> Okay. So when I got to Omaha, I um I I I found a victim that was willing to talk to me. seem to be telling the truth. [clears throat] There was a actually a Senate subcommittee that was formed, a state senate subcommittee to investigate it. And their uh lead investigator, his plane blew up in midair when he had some critical evidence and he was flying back to Omaha.
7:00>> What was that guy's name?
7:01>> Gary Curidori.
7:02>> Gary Kiridori. His plane blew up.
7:05>> His plane blew up.
7:06>> Funny how that happens.
7:07>> Yeah. Yeah. So I And then I got to one of the blackmail photographers.
7:12blackmail photographers.
7:14>> Yeah.
7:15>> Is that exactly what it sounds like?
7:16>> Yeah. He took pictures. Yeah. So, and that guy. Okay.
7:24Okay. So, to be a black male photographer, to [clears throat] have that kind of, shall we call it, vocation. To have that kind of vocation shows that there's some moral turpitude.
7:37>> Yeah. And um but I was talking to him about it and he said that he gave Kerdori pictures in Chicago and Kerodori was signed back because the FBI he said had told him to get out of town and um and then he he he started balling when he he he started talking about Gary Keredori. I mean just broke down in tears. Wait, so he's balling even though he was the guy that stood in there and took these pictures forever [ __ ] long doing it.
8:07>> Yeah. Yeah. So >> what >> you know, humans are incomprehensible, man.
8:13>> I guess >> you know it's um sometimes guys that are straight up sociopathic can actually commit acts of altruism. I mean, I'm not saying that it's >> the rule, but it it happens. But >> so and then I got I I talked to one of the senators that was investigating and and I wanted him to go on record. I I was still hoping to salvage a magazine article of this, but he wouldn't go on record with me. I talked to um someone who was in charge of the uh foster care services uh reviewing the foster care services and she wouldn't talk but she was she was frightened. I mean, they both told me that this is real and it's frightening.
8:57And over the course of my stay in Omaha, somebody was following me.
9:04And then >> how'd you catch them following you? It was I'm really I've got a really bad internal GPS and and this is 2002 2003 and [laughter] I I was driving on this country road and I came to a triple fork and I was supposed to take the left fork but I took the middle fork and it and it was a long dirt road and then I hit my brakes, turned around and then there was a like a gray sedan behind me. I maybe 100 yards behind me, 75 yards behind me that that hit its brakes. So then I found what I was looking for and then um I I talked it was a victim. I talked to him for a while and um then when I was
9:51driving back to Omaha, there wasn't any any subtlety involved. Um that guy was right on my tail and I even hit my brakes a couple of times and um he was still on my tail and then I got off on an exit and um he didn't follow me off on the exit and then I stopped. That scared the [ __ ] out of you though.
10:14>> Well, I stopped at a convenience store and bought two ice cream sandwiches. I I uh I deal with stress a lot of the time through ice cream sandwiches and um [snorts] and yeah, of course, you know, that's frightening. And but after my second ice cream sandwich, I was, you know, I was I was ready to roll.
10:39[laughter] So then I go back to and I'm staying with an old buddy of mine who isn't quite sure whether or not I've lost my mind.
10:51>> But then so he called someone that was for lack of a better word he was an Herbal Life distributor. Um >> wait like Herbal Life the company? Well, I mean, Herb as in we we so um he was careful. He was an Herbal Life distributor and um >> and my buddy was talking to him and this guy broke down crying because of some traumatic things that he'd seen providing this particular network with uh with weed and I I also think Hoke.
11:27But then the last night I was on at Omaha. I was standing my and my buddy was living in an apartment complex.
11:34this crazy looking woman came up to the door and I was watching the History Channel. I can't remember exactly what I was watching. I was waiting for my buddy to come home and uh we're going to cook dinner. He's going to cook dinner. I'm not much of a cook. Well, it can be if I really try, but um so this crazy looking woman came to the door and said she wanted to give me a book. And by this time I'm freaked out. I I mean I'm it's people are frightened to talk to me. I I mean it's like I'm doing an expose on the KGB in Stalinist Russia. Had you ever experience anything like this on a story before?
12:12>> No. Yeah.
12:13>> No. One of, if not the most common DMs I get on Instagram are many of you asking me what my favorite books are. Well, today's your lucky day because if you use the link in my description below to join my newsletter, I'm going to give you my top 10 book recommendations right now. Also, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make money producing content from the show, you can do so via the Discord link in my description below. And finally, you can join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes via the Patreon link in my description below. As always, please take one second to hit
12:42that subscribe button if you haven't already. I really appreciate that. Also, the like button is a big help. And you can join my newsletter via the link in the description below. Um, [sighs] I once wrote a story where there was uh where I proved that there was a serial killer in Minneapolis killing prostitutes and law enforcement had denied it prior to that. And then I put together this list. I put a lot of work into it, but I found like 38 back >> 38 that Yeah. that had beaten been beaten, stabbed, or strangled.
13:14>> Christ. And I thought to myself, this is going to get published and I'm going to out the serial killer and uh I hope he doesn't take it personally. So, [laughter] so, but no, I'd never I mean, I had been I had hung out with the head of the Hell's Angels, >> George.
13:35>> Sunny Barger.
13:36>> Oh, Sunonny Barger at the time.
13:37>> And I've had George in here.
13:39>> Oh, >> yeah. And um [clears throat] I'd been to the supermax prison to interview the former boss of the Casey crime family. So I'd been through these somewhat harrowing things, but nothing, you know, prepared me for what went down in in Omaha.
13:59>> And then I remember I got back and I was freaked out. You know, the thing that freaked me out the most is that it was all true.
14:10That there was this pedophile network and it was getting kids from Omaha and it was flying kids to Washington DC and it was and there were parties for power brokers and they would be blackmailed. Could we actually fill in those blanks for people out there who aren't familiar with the full process here? Obviously, that's the like 30,000 foot in the air view, but specifically who was doing it, what they who they were then selling the kids to. I mean, it's obviously very sick [ __ ] but >> yeah. So, this particular pedophile network, the epicenter was Omaha. And there were two primary pimps. One was
14:52Lawrence E. King of Omaha, Nebraska, and one was Craig Spence of Washington DC.
14:58And Craig Spence had a house. He was a CIA asset. And he had a house that was wired for audiovisisual blackmail. I mean, just just like Epstein.
15:07>> Yeah. And how did you know he was a CIA asset?
15:09>> Because there had been a number of reports that had said that he was. And plus, I went to one of the guys who I trusted who had outed Spence as a CIS. What made you trust this guy? this source >> because I'd known him for a number of years. He was down in DC. He was a reporter in DC and he had never bullshitted me. I mean, he I I I trusted him.
15:38>> He was a journalist like you.
15:39>> Yeah. Okay.
15:40>> So, anyway, Craig Spence had this house that was right for audio blackmail. And then the kids would be flown all over the country. But the like I acquired 200 flight receipts for from that network because I scored the entire seal grand jury exhibits and testimony um from one of the grand juries.
16:01>> They had the flight receipts in a grand jury and didn't bring charges.
16:05>> No, >> you can indict a ham sandwich in a >> Yeah. Yeah. I'll [laughter] get into the ham sandwich. So uh I knew that there was this connection cuz I came on my first trip I came across a lot of documents very early on and I had the good fortune actually I came across a list that that the investigator who died um he made a list of like 325 people and there were 60 alleged victims on that particular list.
16:35So I knew that and and I with Craig Spence. Okay. So King and Spence ran this network and Spence was definitely a CI asset. I don't know. People have theorized that King was, but I couldn't find proof that King was a CI asset. and they both started getting a lot of publicity.
17:05King got busted. He ran a credit union that was for lower socioeconomic people and then >> in Nebraska >> in Nebraska in Omaha and the credit union was supposed to have like $2.5 million in it and actually he stole 39 $40 million from it. So So that and it hadn't been audited in four years. And if you're a federally insured credit union, you have to be audited every year, but haven't been auding Spence's little blackmail operation.
17:44And it it's a pretty famous headline.
17:47Uh, Callboy took midnight tour of the White House.
17:51>> Callboy took midnight tour of the White House. The Washington Times wrote this.
17:56the like conservative outlet in DC.
17:58>> Yes. Yeah. And they did some really good stories on this and then so Spence was getting a lot of publicity and just like Maxwell and Epstein got a lot of publicity. Now, King was picked up in Omaha by uh federal marshalss and he was brought to uh a a federal psychiatric a federal hospital.
18:27Um I guess he was possibly in the uh psychiatric war. We'll never know. It's in Springfield, Missouri.
18:33>> There's your headline, by the way.
18:34>> There it is right there.
18:36>> A homosexual prostitution inquiry ins snares VIPs with Reagan Bush. Callboy took midnight tour of White House.
18:43>> Yes.
18:47So uh so both King and Spence were now getting a lot of publicity. And this is what happened to Ebstein, too. If you're a black mailer, you cannot blackmail people if people know that you're a blackmailer. They're gonna they're going to stay away from you.
19:06>> That's right.
19:07>> So King and Spence lost their usefulness.
19:11And [clears throat and cough] King was picked up just without any motions from the prosecution or defense and put in this psychiatric hospital that diagnosed him as delusional. And he was there because there were two grand juries that were used to cover up this a federal and state grand jury. And then Spence killed himself. He was in the Boston Ritz and he was wearing a tuxedo.
19:37>> The Boston Ritz.
19:39>> Yeah. Risk Ritz Carlton. Yeah. Yeah.
19:42Yeah.
19:42>> So, he checked in and with uh he was wearing a tuxedo and then he had a newspaper clipping about how that debated whether or not CIA agent should be allowed to testify before grand juries or just testify because he was he was called by a grand jury. There was a grand jury that was investigating that. And I think Spence and I I think that EPC might have been made a similar deal.
20:15Either you can kill yourself or we can kill you.
20:19>> The Frank Pantangeli kind of deal.
20:21>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
20:22>> So yes, Frank Pantangelie is is fitting.
20:25Um so Spence died. Now, King kept his mouth shut and he did like 10 years in federal prison and then he got out and he had a no-show job waiting for him in Alexandria, Virginia. Now, why would they let a guy like that [clears throat] live? He's just a cog on their wheel.
20:45[snorts] Why would they let him sit in a prison for 10 years surrounded by a bunch of criminals that he might accidentally run his mouth to and then get out and even hook him up with a nice job, you know, which is, you know, to kind of blackmail him off. like why not just kill him?
20:58>> Well, I think that the deal was made. If you talk, we'll kill you. If you don't, we won't. And then we'll take care of you. And I think Maxwell was given a similar deal.
21:09I I don't When Maxwell gets out of prison, whenever that is. I And it'll probably be before. And with the feds, you've got to do like 85% of the time.
21:19>> Yeah.
21:20>> So, what was it? What was it Tim Dolan was saying, thief? [clears throat] He's like, "Yeah, we can find a heartbeat in Iran, but we couldn't find [ __ ] Galen Maxwell in in [clears throat] New Hampshire." [laughter] So, yeah. I mean, that was very silly what the feds did. But that was that was the Franklin scandal.
21:39And [clears throat and cough] what really bothers me about that, and I I spent seven years on that book, and now there were two grand juries that said that not a single child been trafficked or even abused by these guys.
21:52So wait, just so I understand that the grand juries, when you say they said that, it's because they declined to bring any charges whatsoever. That's >> they they indicted the victims that wouldn't recant uh their accounts of their abuse.
22:05>> The grand juries indicted victims.
22:07>> Yes. Yeah.
22:09>> What did they end up going to trial?
22:12>> Um one of them did. Yeah. And she got 9 to 15 years for perjury.
22:16>> For perjury for saying that she was abused.
22:19>> Yeah. So it was it was boys and girls that were getting Melissa.
22:22>> Yeah. Mostly boys, but yeah, girls, too.
22:25And and the authorities really tried to destroy her. They put her in solitary confinement for about two years.
22:32>> I think I maybe I'm misremembering this, but [clears throat] you remember the Brian Banks case, Steve, the uh lineback the number one overall high school linebacker, if we could Google that. He was So this kid was like the number one recruit in the country. His senior year, some girl accused him of rape. He went to prison >> for like six years which ended his career and he was led out of prison and exonerated because she lied. And if I'm not mistaken, >> was she ever even Was she ever even tried for that? I don't think she was.
23:03>> Alicia Alicia Owen is the the woman's name.
23:06>> Alicia Owen.
23:07>> Owen.
23:07>> Owen. Yeah, let's look her up as well.
23:09Yet a little girl who makes an an accusation against grown ass men that clearly had a lot of evidence here. When the grand jury refuses to bring charges against that, they double whammy it and the prosecutors bring in another grand jury or whatever, maybe the same one to then indict her for that is >> Okay, so here's how that worked out. Um [sighs] the first grand jury was well they were both dog and pony shows but the first grand jury wended for months and the prosecutor I don't know if your audience is familiar with how grand juries work but a special prosecutor has chosen to oversee a grand jury and he or she shows
23:48the prosecutors the evidence that he or she deems important and calls [clears throat] the uh witnesses that what's that >> shows the jury right >> yeah and grand jurors are just people that have shown up for jury duty. So, the special prosecutor of a grand jury, there's that famous quote, could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.
24:07>> Y >> and what they did, and and all this also happened with Ebstein's uh grand jury, too, that found out that ruled he hadn't molested a single child. That happened in Florida. Um, >> wait, what year was that?
24:23>> Um, it was, I think, 2006.
24:28So that was a separate grand jury from the one that did end up bringing charges or are you talking about the same one?
24:34>> I'm talking about Ebstein very early on during his first bust. But but with but with this these there were two grand juries. Um there was a state grand jury and a federal grand jury in Nebraska.
24:47>> Okay.
24:47>> And both of them declared that not a single child been abused. And Alicia Owen and Paul Benasi were indicted for perjury. Alicia was given eight counts of perjury and Paul Benasi was given three counts.
25:00>> Yeah. Here it is. 1993 August. So this is the appeals where where she's appealing, I guess, her sentence or or being found guilty. The trial lasted 5 weeks. The record contains over 4,000 pages of trial testimony, 182 exhibits, including approximately 11 hours of videotape testimony of Alicia. Included in the exhibits are more than a thousand pages of testimony from a previous grand jury proceeding related to Owens's perjury trial. Having reviewed the foregoing, we present a summary of the facts relevant to the issues on the appeal. Can you go all the way down to the bottom?
25:32Obviously, they denied uh we can't get it because it's it's behind a pay wall.
25:36Okay. But that Wow, that's >> So Alicia was looking at eight counts of per So she was looking at uh 160 years.
25:47>> 160 years for perjury.
25:49>> Yeah. What?
25:50>> And in Nebraska at that point, one count of perjury could get you 20 years.
25:54>> Jesus Christ.
25:55>> And then the feds indicted her on a count of perjury and that's five years max. So she was looking at 200 years.
26:03This is a girl that had been trafficked in her adolescence and she was I think 1920 years old. So she was looking at 200 years in prison.
26:18And the FBI had told all these victims that if you talk, you're going to jail for perjury.
26:26>> The FBI told him that.
26:27>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the FBI I mean, the both the Department of Justice and the FBI teamed up to make sure that this thing went away.
26:39and Alicia went so the the federal grand jury was a backs stop because Alicia had to be found guilty to sanctify the grand jury that [clears throat] said that no one had been molested and then and then they just barely got Alicia that uh jury was deliberate for about sort of three days so they just they got Alicia by the skin of their teeth and somebody walked in with a gun and said >> so they dropped the perjury charges against Paul Benazi and um and then put Alicia away. Um >> what happened to Paul?
27:19>> Paul uh he ultimately uh he was also in prison and he ultimately got out and he's married and has three [clears throat] kids and lives a pretty productive life.
27:34>> I take it I take it you've seen True Detective before. I have indeed.
27:38>> Yeah. So, that first season in particular is the greatest season in the history of TV of anything.
27:46>> But I want to get the creator Nick Pizzalado on here so badly because, you know, that came out in January 2014. He wrote it, I guess, in like 2011, 2012, 2013.
27:57That came from somewhere.
27:59>> Well, I I called him up one day and asked him uh if he'd want to work together with me.
28:04>> Oh, really?
28:06and he said they only wanted to do fiction, but actually uh there's a uh the Franklin scandal is mentioned I think in season two of True to Dead.
28:18>> So yeah, they were definitely primed on on on what I wrote, I believe.
28:24>> Wow.
28:25>> That's wow.
28:26>> And so my and I went back to Nebraska, I think 12 times. um >> over that seven-year period.
28:36>> Yeah. And then I went to Washington DC.
28:39>> Do you ever, you know, I I I think about this a lot with anyone working any kind of story, whether it's dark or, you know, something just historical, whatever it might be.
28:49>> But like, you know, you live in New York. You've lived in New York for 31 years. So, at that time, you were already well underway being a New Yorker and all that. And you're going to Omaha, Nebraska in the middle of the country.
29:01And you're going outside Homaha as well to track down all these different victims. You're in these smaller places and it's almost like I picture a guy like you, especially as you start to peel the onion away and get closer to closer to like, holy [ __ ] what am I looking at here? It's almost like you're this speck in the middle of this whole other world and you maybe you have a moment there at some point where you're just I don't know standing out on that dirt road alone and you're like, "Holy [ __ ] this seems like the most relaxed, laid-back, innocent kind of place yet the darkest [ __ ] ever happened right
29:38where I'm standing." Like, did you have a moment like that? Well, I had been through Omaha twice before and it just looked like a bunch of like fat, happy white people.
29:52And um I mean that's one wouldn't think that. But but I think you know Oscar Wild said of art, go below the surface at your own risk. And um and I believe that there's a lot of networks at any given time. Now, some of those networks might be just hooked up to the cops.
30:17Um some of them actually might be hooked up to the feds. I I know in Minneapolis [snorts] there's this thoroughfare where a lot of the prostitutes walk. It's called Lake Street. And the cops tell the pro the prostitutes that they like or the prosecu prostitutes that service them um we're going to have a a drag net on Friday night and anybody on the street is going to get rounded up and um arraigned. So I mean that's law enforcement collusion with [clears throat] with criminality. Um, so I think that but yes, one wouldn't think that such darkness would lurk under Omaha, Nebraska. But the thing about
31:05Omaha, Nebraska, and this is what makes it very different. Strategic Air Command is located outside of Omaha, Nebraska.
31:13>> Strategic Air Command, >> that is the brain of our national defense. That's where they took Bush after 911.
31:19>> Yeah. So, and I've been told by actually two sources that Omaha has the second highest concentration of CIA of any place in the country only to Langley just because that part they our defense system has to make sure or or the people in charge of our defense system have to make sure that >> nobody [clears throat] infringes upon uh strategic air commands.
31:53>> See, that's okay.
31:54>> But >> but the other [ __ ] What?
31:56>> But there's a lot I think there's a lot of illegal stuff that goes on here.
32:01>> Um >> illegal. This is beyond illegal. This is this is the sickest [ __ ] >> I mean, but I'm I'm I'm talking child molestation, but I'm I'm talking other things, too.
32:10>> Other things, too.
32:11So, um I I eventually hired a private detective because I I'm very good at finding people, but there were two people I could not find. And um they didn't use their social security number very often and but they were really instrumental to the story. And [clears throat] >> what kinds of people?
32:33>> Um they were victims.
32:36one was uh [snorts] a victim. Well, the the people that ran the Franklin uh network started to use her as a as in child abuse material when she was like nine or 10. And then the other guy had been through Boytown and of course >> Boytown.
32:57>> Yeah.
32:58>> What's Boytown?
32:59>> It's uh the most famous iconic orphanage in the world. It's uh it's really it's the most famous orphanage in the world >> in Omaha.
33:09>> Yeah, it's outside of Omaha.
33:12>> And they were using this as a sourcing place.
33:15>> Yeah, there was at that point uh Omaha or uh Boytown was a smorgus board for pedophiles.
33:24And it's it's mindboggling because I've talked to a number of Boytown kids that were recruited out of out of Boytown.
33:32How well obviously they were completely forced into it. They're kids, but what did they how did it work? What did what did they tell you?
33:40>> Okay, so the number the number one guy at Boytown Manior Hub, he was a drunk and the number two and he wasn't a pedophile. He wouldn't have made deals with pedophiles, but he was a drunk. He was pretty disconnected. He was kind of a titular head. And um [snorts] the number two guy, James Kelly, he was a pedophile and he had molested Yeah.
34:09he'd molested a number of kids in New York, upstate New York, and the Catholic Church in its infinite wisdom put him in Boytown. So I believe that that there was a deal made [clears throat] where father and and Kelly molested a lot of kids, but I think that he was also because someone had to give these kids privileges to they were flown to DC and all of someone had to give these kids privileges to get out of uh get out of Boytown and I think it was it was Kelly.
34:42So that's how and all is they really needed was that one guy, >> just one guy just to get access >> and but there were other people that were involved too with Boytown. Um and the money it was all about the money.
34:59>> Who were the other people?
35:00>> Um people that So with Boytown they've got like individual houses where the kids stay. It's supposed to be like the family teachers. So, it's supposed to be like a a household. Now, I I'm told that family teachers were also involved. Um, and what I found really disturbing was it seems, now I can't prove this, that kids that didn't have parents or parents that really looked after them were much more susceptible to being trafficked than other kids.
35:37>> Sure. I mean, it's an orphanage. They don't have Yeah.
35:40>> Well, but [clears throat] you know, we are talking kids from very lower socioeconomic backgrounds and you give them $500 and they'll do a lot of different things for $500.
35:51>> So, they're paying the kids literally.
35:52>> Yeah. There Well, there's money and there's drugs. Those are the carrots.
36:00>> So, they would go in and drug them with Are we talking like date rape drugs kind of thing?
36:04>> No. No. Drugs were like the carrot. if you perform well, you know, you can have drugs or >> so they'd be like, "Okay."
36:11>> Yeah.
36:12>> Yeah.
36:14>> And with um one So, we're getting back the the woman that was the private detective that found two people for me that I I wasn't able to find. Um she had traced a drug ring to off at Air Force Base, which is part of Stratcom. And according to her, she was taken for a ride in a van and beat up really badly and then pushed out of the van on a onto a highway. So you [snorts] can get away when when it's when something is that insular, you can get away with a lot of criminality. Yeah.
37:01now with so she found um a girl named Shannetta Moore that I had documentation on and she found a guy named Ru Fox and I' I've been looking for Rue forever and uh this was towards the end of my investigation then >> these are victims like you said.
37:17>> Yeah. And Rue Okay. So the the detective told me, you know, Ruth's got a sleeve that's, you know, a mile long. Violent, a record, a criminal record >> that's a mile long, and he's really violent. So >> yeah, I wonder why.
37:35>> Be careful.
37:36>> Hey guys, if you haven't already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button. It's a huge, huge help. Thank you.
37:41>> And um so I called up Rue and I said, "Rue, my name's uh Nick Bryant. I'm a I'm a journalist. I'm working on a story. I'd like to talk to you. And he [snorts] goes, "You're a cop." And I go, "No, no, I'm I'm not a cop. I'm I'd like to meet with you." And he goes, "You're a cop." And I go, "I'm not a cop." He goes, "I'll meet with you, but if you're a cop, I'm going to snap your neck." And so he chose this dive bar in Omaha. The kind of bar where people drink until they die. I mean, it might be they might die tomorrow, they might die next year, they might die in five years, but they're there to to
38:21drink and die. So, I'm there drinking a cranberry juice and um that doesn't taste quite right and I'm thinking that I might need some antibiotics, but anyway, my picadell's aside. Um and then Rue comes in with two friends and Rue, he was in prison for a number of years and and he is pumped up. He's like a human pitbull. And he goes, "Back here."
38:45You know, I went went to shake his hand.
38:47He goes, "Back here." So that there was a a room in the back of the bar that was completely vacant. So it was [snorts] it was Ru [clears throat] and his two friends and mate, and he thrust me up against the wall.
39:05And it's kind of a weird thing. Um, you know, I did see where the the uh exit sign was. And um a >> little late for that.
39:12>> Well, I mean if and Ru was the biggest and meanest of the three. I mean, if worse came to worse, I was going to hit Drew Ru with my best shot and then go out the exit. But I didn't. It was kind of weird. Uh you know, he thrust me against the wall and he goes, "Are you a cop?" And I said, "No, I'm not a cop."
39:31And he said, "Prove it that you're not a cop." So I had my backpack with me and I pulled out the documentation on him that had linked him to the this network from Boytown to prove that you're not a cop.
39:44That would I mean my red blinker would be going off saying cop if I saw that.
39:48>> Well, there was there was a lot of documentation in my backpack. So and he told me I and I told him exactly what I was doing. And um and so we sat down. I I kept buying him and his buddies pictures of beer and um and then he needed a ride. He was shooting crystal meth and and and drinking um cheap vodka every morning. And uh so I gave him a ride to where he was he was I I believe he was going to cop me math and then you know and then I called him up and he kept on saying man you opened up the wrong door. You opened up the wrong door. Uh he was a 12-year-old and Lawrence King, one of the pimps, had
40:37molested him and gave him a bunch of stitches and that was covered up.
40:43>> Gave him a bunch of stitches >> or Yeah. sodomized him. Gave him a bunch of stitches. So he he endured that when he was uh 12 years old and then he became this big violent guy.
40:55>> Now hold on a minute. He obviously something like that threw his whole life off as we can tell. And I mean, who could blame him? But like I would think a I'm just playing basic psychology here. I would think a really big drug abusing, you know, angry at this point criminal, very ripped up guy might react a certain way if you're bringing up the most traumatizing moment of his life.
41:29>> The most horrific nightmare he's ever had.
41:32>> And he didn't like punch you.
41:34>> No. You know, the thing is I'd interacted with a bunch of victims at this point. Ru was like the last victim that I that I actually found. Um, and [sighs] I, you know, people have a I try to conduct myself with integrity and I think people can pick up that. And um with Rue, he didn't I mean, so here's what happened with Ru. I you know, I called him up a couple of times and he kept on saying, "You open the wrong door. You open the wrong door."
42:18And um and then I was about to split Omaha and come back to New York and I thought, "I'm going to try Rue one last time." [laughter] And and I I was worried. I I was really worried um that it that [clears throat] that rage and wrath was going to be directed at me, but I had to give it a shot. I mean, I'd found him. It took me a long time to find him, and I had to give it one last shot. So, I got to him after he had shot up some crystal math and drinking a pint of vodka. He's working on a car in his father's uh backyard. Ru had a father.
43:01>> Yeah. Who was dying and who who had done >> but he was in the boy's home.
43:05>> Ru had done a lot of his father had done a lot of time also. So um I said hey Rue how you doing? You know you know ready to [laughter] run a run a you know 4140 if I had to. Um I said Rue how you doing? He goes you know I've been thinking about talking to you about what happened to me. So this is after the bar meeting.
43:30>> Yeah. Yeah. And and two phone calls where he was very uh pugilistic on on the phone. So or a cervvic. And he said, "Well, yeah. Well, that'd be great, R. I mean, if you wanted to talk to me." And so he was working on this car and I was his like gopher and his buddies came over and I was like the gopher. I'd, you know, get them parts, I'd get them McDonald's, you know, whatever they wanted, get them. And um [clears throat] and then at a certain point uh I took her to the hotel where I was staying and um we started to talk and here was this big scary dude who just broke down crying.
44:20And that 12year-old that had been so damaged by these malignant people came out that that armor >> that that ferocity that was the armor that he wore and he took it off for that interview. And basically, I was interviewing a 12-year-old kid. That was >> what?
44:56>> That was very damaged.
44:57>> When he was it off right when he got there, how long did you have to talk to him before it just totally broke?
45:03>> He started crying pretty quickly. I mean, he >> he wanted to talk.
45:08>> He'd never talked to anybody about this.
45:11>> And there were some people that really wanted to talk to me.
45:16And because I had a list of 60 alleged victims put together by that investigator and some of them really wanted to talk to me and I some of them would never talk to me and they were hard to find. A lot of these kids were really really hard to find because they're not you like they're they're like ru they've lived this subterranean lifestyle and they don't generally well a lot of times they don't use a social security number so they're hard to find. Why don't they use a social security number?
45:47>> Because they're involved in illegal activities.
45:53>> Yeah. I I I can't I can't imagine especially like cuz his whole life went totally off the rails as a result of all the things that happened to him and he knows that like deep down he knows that.
46:07And then to realize that something like that went unpunished, that those people were not only doing it, but they were probably doing it at the behest of other people.
46:21>> But I mean, the that network was protected by state law enforcement and federal law enforcement.
46:27Um, it's a lot. You know, Epstein is a carbon copy of the Franklin scandal.
46:36>> Why did they, in your estimation, before we get to Epstein?
46:44Why do powerful people in places use this? Why do they use sexual abuse of children as a main ring to get what they want? Well, child abuse is in every strata.
47:08Um, [snorts] there are child traffickers like Jeffrey Epstein living in a mansion on the Upper East Side. Mhm. There are child traffickers living in a trailer park on the outskirts of Kansas City. I mean, predators are all around us.
47:30But the predators that we're talking about with the Franklin scandal and also with Ebstein, those predators are protected because they're compromised.
47:41And I've used this analogy a number of times over the years because when I first talked to that blackmail photographer, I was trying to get my mind around all this. You know, how how does this work? You don't really read about it in a book. I mean, now you can, but prior to my book, you couldn't really read about. [snorts] And he said, "Once you're compromised, [clears throat] it's like you're on a yacht and it's a beautiful yacht and it's a beautiful day and you can have anything you want on the yacht, but if you decide to get off the yacht, the people on the yacht are going to make sure that you drown."
48:22So people that are are politicians that are blackmailed like this, they're going to go along to get along because if footage of their perversions was released, it would be that'd be the end of them.
48:39>> So you're saying that there's a psychological thing that happens where they go, "Oh, [ __ ] I'm caught." And they're upset about it, but then their captor goes, "No, no, no. We're your friends. Don't worry. you're just going to work with us now and it's all good and then they give them the best food, give them the best amenities and all that and they begin to actually like the people that hold something over them.
49:00>> Well, they become those people, >> right? And I I'll give you a couple of examples. Uh Dennis Hastard was speaker of the house for >> six years or so, seven years now. There was a FBI whistleblower named Sabel Edmonds who had said that Hastard had a shadow life. Mhm.
49:21>> And with Hastard years after some years after he got um out of politics, he was busted because and here's the thing, he was a wrestling coach in in high school and he had uh molested an I guess a number of young men and one of them was blackmailing Hastard and the FBI arrested Hastard instead of the blackmailer. So, for some reason, Hastard got off the yacht and I think that he got too greedy. He was making millions and millions of dollars as a lobbyist and I think that he thought, "Well, I'm Dennis Hastard, Speaker of the House." And and I think he forgot that he was on the yacht. I mean, that's what I think.
50:09>> And then there's Larry Craig. He was uh he was in DC for 25 years and first as a representative from Oregon and then as a uh or Idaho and then as a a senator and I wrote a book called Confessions of a DC man, the politics of sex lies and blackmail. And it I wrote it with a guy who ran a gay escort service in DC and the CIA assets would use his gay escorts to compromise people. So >> the [snorts] CIA assets would >> Yes. Yes. meaning not direct case officers and stuff but people that >> assets shared information with them.
50:45>> So this guy his name is Larry Craig and he was a senator and so he was getting escorts from Henry Vincent who I wrote the book with. But then he there was a a documentary that came out called Outrage and it was about um how gay politicians or class of politicians vote against gay rights and and Craig had one of the worst records and and the makers of that the director was Kirby Dick. the m the maker of that doc documentary, he found other escorts that had been with Craig that weren't provided by Henry Vincent. And ultimately what happened to Craig was he was in a bathroom in Minneapolis and he tried to pick up a Vice Squad cop
51:39and and this is a US senator and [clears throat] he got arrested and I'm from Minneapolis. I go there once a year um for Thanksgiving and I was in a a a stall sitting on a commode and someone was slapping their foot on the ground. Um I that's the signal that Craig must have had, you know, that triggered Craig. But someone was slapping their foot on the ground and um I mean really hard and I had no idea. I I thought they had a neurological disorder and um I'm just I'm just fortunate that I didn't say uh could I help you? [laughter] >> Yeah, been some come through the hole in the [ __ ] stall.
52:23>> So, it's not that difficult to compromise these guys >> and get them on the yacht. I mean, when a political system is as compromised as ours or has people that are as compromised as ours, we end up with the kind of leaders that we're ending up with.
52:41>> Yep. I think there's really something to be said for that. And I I don't think like if people deny that at this point, they're not facing reality. I think for a long time, especially in the pre-social media era, which is when you were working on this story, by the way, you know, and the pre- internet era, obviously before that, these things, it was much easier to cover them up because there couldn't be some, you know, late night commenter making a post that went viral because people go, "What the fuck?" You know, and they could just kind of shove things under the rug. And for a long time there
53:16was a very easy way to compromise powerful people and it was using their worst weaknesses against them. And I go so far as to think that they kind of there's a certain type of person they target to put into those offices. like they know they know this kind of person's you know whether it's going to be someone who's a molester or someone like what what the guy Swallwell who you know was just raping women you know like as far as I know they were of age but you know nonetheless the allegations are that he was he was a serial sexual offender like there's a type of person they want in there >> from what I've seen
53:55there is the the personality type that ends up in Washington DC is very similar to the personality type that ends up in Hollywood.
54:06>> H highly highly predatory.
54:08>> Highly predatory.
54:10>> Yeah.
54:13I'm going to need some more wine.
54:14>> Oh yeah, I got you right here. That's that's interesting. I mean, there's things that people would have said, including with the Franklin scandal, by the way. I believe when that I mean you even pointed out they were charging the victims just for making their claims but when it came out and got any attention it was called a giant hoax and I think publicly even assessed that way and I think what we've seen is that it's not to say every single claim that's ever been made about anything ever therefore is true but in the last 10 years especially we've seen so many things that people would have or actually did laugh away as
54:55like, "Yeah, no way." Suddenly be proven as, "Wow, that's at least a lot more true than false or in some cases exactly what we thought it was." And the Franklin scandal is one of those things that's like you were also early to after it had been called a hoax, but before anyone was really talking about it. And sounds like it's it's unfortunately aging. Well, well, the thing about it is when the Franklin Scandal got published, I I live in New York City. I live in the mecca of publishing and I had a bunch of friends that were in publishing and some one of them was like a superstar journalist who I'd known from
55:37Minneapolis and no one wanted to touch this story.
55:41>> When did you first start trying to sell it? A few years into the investigation.
55:44>> Probably about 2004. Yeah.
55:46>> And no one would touch it. No one would touch it. But I was saying that the government was covering up child trafficking and child molestation and people weren't ready for that message.
55:57>> They weren't ready for it.
55:58>> And then people would Google it. And Wikipedia has really done the Franklin scandal a major disservice because there are Wikipedia editors that have locked that page down. You cannot mo make any kind of changes to that page and it reads nonsensical.
56:17>> Yeah. It's the CIA.
56:19>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um I'm I'm glad you know that because that page is and there was a uh a production company that optioned the Franklin Scandal and they've made a lot of movies, really good movies. And I was having lunch with the president one day and >> when is this? This was I don't know probably 10 years ago or so.
56:47>> Oh, so after True Detective.
56:49>> Yeah, they optioned it. Well, he read it and he was blown away by it. I mean, the Franklin scandal is really really well sourced and meticulous and so they optioned it and then he told me [snorts] because they he and other people one was an Emmy award-winning uh producer. they they had tried to sell it. We we'd worked very hard on trying to sell it and no one would touch it.
57:15And he said before he said to me, "As long as that Wikipedia page is going to be the way it is, you're never going to be able to sell that and um sell sell it in Hollywood because people in Hollywood don't." Now, he didn't say this, but people in Hollywood don't read. And I I'll give you an example. I uh right after the Franklin Scandal was published, I I was short on funds. I really thought I could go to Hollywood.
57:41I I Iworked. I thought I could I was I had like three meetings a day.
57:47>> How did you end up getting it published, by the way? Who published it?
57:49>> Um a a small press [snorts] in Oregon published a try day and they're the kind of the last house on the left for anybody that wants to publish a book.
58:01>> Okay. So, they get it published, you you go out to Hollywood and um [snorts] and I'm pitching it. I'm pitching it as a documentary. I'm pitching it as a narrative movie, [cough and clears throat] a feature film. And I had a buddy that was he was one of the the young Turks in Hollywood, but his uh career kind of ran a foul because of drug addiction.
58:29but he knew a bunch of young executives that had juice and I met with one of them. They were kind of partners. I met with one of them and um we met at a coffee shop. I gave him the book and um you know we talked and he could see that I was saying and then about three days later I get an email from my buddy who has run a foul because they've looped him into their their conversation and they're discussing what's true about the Franklin scandal and what's not true about the Franklin scandal and neither one had read it.
59:07[laughter] So that's what we're dealing with now. How long was the book?
59:12>> It's it's it's a it's there's a lot of documents that we put in it because some of those documents are just so mind-blowing.
59:21>> But it's I think it's around 500 pages.
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