0:01I travel a lot, but there's always these other places I'm going, you know?
0:05[laughter] Like I just got back from the Azores.
0:08>> Uh, how was that?
0:09>> awesome. A couple of weeks out there in the mid-Atlantic looking for any remains I could find of Atlantis.
0:17>> Oh, you were looking for Atlantis in the Azores. That's a great way to start this off. What's What's the evidence there?
0:22>> Oh, well, you got you got to go back to the source.
0:25>> Mhm.
0:26>> Plato.
0:28You've heard of Plato, right?
0:29>> Oh, yeah.
0:30>> Considered to be the greatest metaphysician of Western civilization, right?
0:34>> Uh, yeah, so he wrote two dialogues, Timaeus and Critias, and that's where pretty much 97.5% of all the info we have on Atlantis comes from those two dialogues of Plato.
0:46And uh, I've made a pretty thorough study of his work parti- particularly focused on that for decades now. And uh, what I decided to do, let me put some context here. If you go back to some of the There was like a 19th century Atlantean revival based upon the work of Ignatius Donnelly, who was a congressman from Minnesota, who ran for Congress, won won his seat in Congress, went to Washington, but his primary motive was so that he could go there and do research in the Library of Congress.
1:23So, he spent a lot of time in the Library of Congress and did a lot of research, and he came back and he wrote two books on Atlantis. Uh, Atlantis, the Antediluvian World, I think it was called, and the other one was Ragnarok, The Age of Fire and Gravel.
1:38So, in the first one he talks about evidence that could be consistent with the potential uh, island civilization in the middle of middle of the Atlantic, which is kind of where Plato pretty much put it, you know? Um, in fact, very explicitly put it in the mid-Atlantic.
1:54And that sort of triggered a a revival of interest in Atlantis that a lot of people sort of picked up on it and there was a lot of books written on the subject over the next say until the 1970s.
2:08And most of them followed Plato's description which said which very explicitly placed it in the mid-Atlantic, right? So >> [snorts] >> then in the 1970s we had some geologists weigh in and there was a book published it was 1977 called Atlantis fact or fiction.
2:30And in that book you had a group of geologists saying basically laying out why Plato would have been wrong. It couldn't have been there in the mid-Atlantic because what we knew about the Atlantic Ocean excluded any possibility of there being a landmass there of any substantial size and declared definitively that Atlantis you know what whether it was fact or fiction it would have been fiction and that he meant it merely as a socio-political allegory for his concept of what the ideal civilization would have been and why an ideal civilization would fall into decline. It was primarily because they became
3:10imperialistic and he describes how they came in from from the Atlantic and invaded the area the region of the Mediterranean Sea and tried to subjugate all of the peoples living and and cultures inside the Mediterranean and then what I called the proto-Athenians because we're talking about a period of time that was about 11,600 years ago.
3:36Plato was very explicit about the date that he gives and >> Which correlates interesting with a certain time period.
3:42>> Absolutely it does and we can circle back to that if you want but >> Hey guys, three quick things. Number one, if you haven't subscribed please subscribe. It's a huge huge help. Number two, if you'd like to join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes, you can join via the link in my description or in the pinned comment below. And number three, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make content from the show and make money, you can join via the Discord link in my description below.
4:08>> So, he describes how the forerunners of the Athenians, who you know, this is Plato is he's expli- explicating on what the ancient Egyptian priests told Solon, who was an Athenian poet, lawgiver, philosopher, et cetera, who went on a self-imposed um he left Athens on a uh he banished himself from Atlantis. I mean, from >> Athens.
4:40>> Athens. Thank you.
4:41Uh and uh went to Egypt, and while in Egypt, he was discoursing with the with the elderly priests there, telling about all the things that they knew in uh in Greece at the time. And the one of the elderly priests said, "You you Hellenes, you Greeks, are really just like children. You don't know about all of the stuff that really went down. For example, you know only about one flood.
5:06We know about at least three great floods." And he went on, and then then proceeded to uh narrate the story of Atlantis to Solon. And Solon came back then to Athens, and then narrated the story to I believe it was his nephew, who then passed it down to his son. Let's see, it was Dropides, and then uh it ended up Critias the elder, then Critias the younger. And it was Critias the younger who then uh narrated the story in the Socratic forum that Plato describes, right?
5:38Jo- John?
5:39>> Joey.
5:39>> Joe. Okay, Joe is nodding his head. So, Joe obviously knows about this.
5:45>> Yeah, he's he knows what's up. He's a cultured man over here.
5:48>> That's you know, that makes me suspicious you know, because [laughter] whenever somebody cuz I mean, he could be a reincarnated Atlantean. Have you ever looked at his background to see >> it's funny. There's nothing known about Joseph De Filippis before the year 2019.
6:03>> Really?
6:04>> very strange to me. I don't know if he's a time traveler. I'm not ruling it out, but you know, >> [clears throat] >> he's See, he's keeping himself off camera right now, too. He's not putting his camera on. I don't like it.
6:14>> Okay, I get it. Again, [laughter] okay.
6:16Well, we'll we'll have to look into that.
6:20Anyhow, um so Critias the Younger then presented the story in the Socratic forum. And it Let's see who else was there. Timaeus, Critias, Plato, and Socrates, of course.
6:31>> When you say Socratic forum that >> Socrates.
6:34>> Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's quite literally like in his forum itself or is that like a name for a type of forum they would have after >> think it could be used now as a type of forum. But but it obviously comes from Socrates himself. And Socrates was there kind of leading the whole discussion, see.
6:52Uh anyhow, so then back to what happened in the development in the 1970s was that um the geologist weighed in and said, you know, this the geology just doesn't work here. Um so the conclusion was the title of the book, Atlantis Fact or Fiction. The conclusion was it's it's fiction that Plato pretty much made it up uh again allegorically. But then you had other people looking at it so, well, okay, so let's consider that Atlantis might have been somewhere else than where Plato seems to place it, right? So, the prime candidate was the island of Santorini that had uh that had There was a volcano. Now, let me see,
7:38was it Thera the volcano? Santorini the island? I think that was it. I think it was Santorini was the island. The name of the volcano was Thera, t h e r a. If John is looking Joe is looking it up. Um and it erupted uh would have been 900 years before Plato's time, I believe.
7:56Which would have put it about a thousand BC.
7:59>> 1600 BC, Joe, you said?
8:01>> What was it?
8:02>> 1600 BC.
8:03>> Okay, so it was 900 years before Solon's time.
8:06>> Yeah.
8:06>> Yeah, cuz Solon was 600 BC.
8:08>> thought Atlantis could have been in Santorini. I mean, Santorini's like not off the beaten path. I mean, it's like right there.
8:13>> Right there. Yeah. It is right there.
8:15And and and but that has been the primary candidate. But to make it work, then you have to say, "Okay, well, Plato didn't really mean outside the Pillars of Hercules, which is the Straits of Gibraltar, which separates the Mediterranean from the Atlantic. It wasn't really there. It was somewhere else, and they had to look around, and they said, "Okay, maybe these two rocks here were what he meant, the Pillars of Hercules.
8:38And he Plato was off by an order of magnitude. He got confused, and instead of 900 years, it was 9,000 years." Okay, so so that became the prime candidate.
8:50But then, over the next few decades after that, I mean, you see it being proposed all over the place. Turkey, even Antarctica. Um the uh Brit Britain. Uh I mean, the list There was a list of at least a dozen places that you know, in each each author and researcher had their own re- you know, own explanation for why this place would have been Atlantis or could have been Atlantis.
9:18>> What was like the explanation for whichever author wrote that it could have been in Britain?
9:23>> Like what was What it could have been what?
9:25>> Did you say Britain was one of them?
9:26>> Yeah, actually the the Celtic Shelf, which is an area off the coast of Britain that is now drowned under the ocean.
9:34Well, because remember, we're talking when we're going back 12,000 years or longer, we're in the middle of an ice age.
9:40>> Yes.
9:40>> And that ice age, there was more ice you more than double the amount of glacial ice on the world than there is today.
9:48>> This is when we're switching from like Pleistocene to Holocene?
9:51>> That's right.
9:52>> Okay.
9:52>> Good. The man has been doing his homework.
9:55>> Well, don't give me too much credit cuz I always forget. Like that's so that's like the scientific term for it because it's a literal change in actual say geology, the earth is forced what we can see.
10:07>> It was an extreme climatological change that occurred. And the kind of the the thing that defined it was the Younger Dryas, which you've heard of.
10:18>> Oh, yeah. I've heard you talk about that a lot.
10:20>> Yeah, so the Younger Dryas was this uh climate catastrophe. It lasted about 1,300 years.
10:27It started just a little bit this side of 12,900 years ago, and it was over suddenly. Uh we we we're actually going to look at some graphs of this in a in a bit. It was over suddenly at 11,600 years ago. And one of the things that happened at the very end of the Younger Dryas was there was a massive melting event. And that, of course, then introduced a huge volume of meltwater into the global oceans, which caused an accelerated sea level rise. So, if you look up meltwater pulse 1B, Joe, meltwater pulse 1B, I think you'll see that it's dated to right at 11,600 years ago, give or take, maybe a century.
11:05>> And by the way, for everyone else out there, Randall has the HDMI today, so we're going to be looking through a lot of PowerPoints that he has. So, if you don't see Joe pulling up things, that's why. We have it in there, so there'll be plenty information coming out.
11:18>> Cool. Yeah.
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12:52Oh, cool. All right, so we'll at least have it in here.
12:55But what what do we get anything on that?
13:00>> Yes, so >> Perfect. So, meltwater pulse 1B, an episode of rapid post-glacial sea level rise hypothesized to have occurred between I'm sorry, hypothesized to have occurred between approximately 1,100 or 11,500 and 11,200 years ago at the end of the Younger Dryas >> period.
13:19>> I think the most the refined dates that I've been looking at put it closer to 11.5.
13:23>> Okay.
13:24>> Um >> And but it did happen in the last 300 years, give or take?
13:27>> Well, well, what happened was you had this rapid pulse and then it it didn't just diminish all at once. So, it sort of declined over a period of several centuries. But the it looks like the initial pulse of meltwater was very rapid.
13:41>> Mhm.
13:42>> And so this is 11,600. So, that works out to be precisely Plato's date that he gives in his dialogues multiple times, multiple times, not just once. So, if he made a mistake, he made it multiple times.
13:57Um and you know, the the Egyptian priests are very explicit and say, "Yes, it's we've preserved this story in our sacred registers from 8 9,000 years ago." Right? So, So, anyways, I look at that and I go, "Okay, so Plato places the subsidence of Atlantis 11,600 years ago, which is within a few decades of a massive meltwater pulse.
14:23>> Right.
14:24>> When sea level would have been rapidly rising. Now, to get into a little geophysics here, when you have surface loading, mass loading, whether it's on the oceans or on the continents, the continent the the the crust of the earth is not perfectly rigid. It gives in the same way we're sitting on these cushion chairs.
14:46I I made this analogy for for Rogan one time. He said and I said, "Right now, if you were to try to understand what isostatic depression is, this is the term for this." Everybody knows about uh continental drift, which is lateral movement. Less known is isostatic, which is vertical movement. And I said, "Right now, Joe, you're the the uh uh you're sitting on a cushion chair and your ass is causing isostatic depression."
15:13Um and I think he got that. I think he understood that then using >> I almost feel the earth moving right now on my ass a little bit. That's good.
15:20[snorts] >> But it's >> [laughter] >> Joe Joe liked that one.
15:24>> I know.
15:25>> Okay.
15:26>> [laughter] >> But you were saying like with this with the Atlantis story, that's what's so fascinating about it.
15:32It it became larger than itself over time because there was so much folklore of all the different places it could be.
15:38And then I think like when you think about it from like a I don't know, pop cultural perspective, a lot of times like without looking at the evidence of the literal stories, people will think about oh, it was this underwater civilization and they lived [clears throat] differently or something like that. But my understanding is that a lot of that is actually just quite literally what you're talking about, which is it's they lived above land and then where it might be, wherever that is, it just has been covered up since then by natural events such as like when they were trying to say a few years ago that there was
16:10evidence that maybe Atlantis is off the coast of Cuba. But now it's cut now the pyramids are covered up because it's no longer above land. Is that kind of the right way to put it?
16:19>> Kind of yeah, you're on the right track.
16:21The idea [clears throat] is that um you would have had an island.
16:26What Plato's [cough and clears throat] describing in Atlantis is an island. And he pretty explicitly places it in the mid-Atlantic.
16:34Now um I can actually read something here from from Plato.
16:40And uh you'll see here uh >> [clears throat] >> Here we go. This is some good stuff here.
16:48Uh now this is from Timaeus and this is uh Critias talking.
16:54And Critias the Critias the younger and he's talking addressing this to Socrates. And he says "Then listen, Socrates, to a strange tale which is, however, certainly true as Solon, who was the wisest of the seven sages, declared.
17:11We don't necessarily like he was a relative and great friend of my great grandfather Dropides, as he himself says in several of his poems, and Dropides told Critias, my grandfather, who remembered and told us. So, that's the lineage of the of the story.
17:24And that [clears throat] there were of old great and marvelous actions of the Athenians, which have passed into oblivion through time and the destruction of the human race. And one in particular, which was the greatest of them all, the recital of which will be a suitable testimony of our gratitude to you and also hymn of praise true and worthy of the goddess, who have been uh which may be sung by us at the festival in her honor.
17:53Uh And then Socrates [clears throat] is saying, "Very good. And what is this ancient famous action of which Critias spoke? Not as mere legend, but as verif- as a veritable action." Now, I'm emphasizing that because throughout the dialogues, over and over again, Plato's declaring, "This is real. I'm describing a real phenomena here." So, you cannot from the internal evidence of Plato's writing here, of his dialogues, that he meant it as an allegory. In fact, just as the opposite, right? Um So, yeah, um Solon had only, the like other poets, made poetry the business of his life and had completed the tale which he brought
18:43with him from Egypt. Um and then he goes on uh about the greatest action which the Athenians ever did and which ought to have been the most famous, but which through the lapse of time and the destruction of the actors has not come down to us. Now, that's another important point. Because he's he's saying now that we have these traditions of old, but they haven't survived. And the reason they haven't survived is because of these destructions. And he goes into some very uh def- uh definitive descriptions of what these descrip- Excuse me, descriptions Well, that's what happens when I only have 4 hours of sleep.
19:23>> [laughter] >> These destructions of mankind. Um >> Is he Is he literally Am I understanding that correctly that he is making the assumption or I shouldn't say the assumption like he is saying that the Atlanteans, their direct descendants are the Athenians, meaning they were a part of their culture?
19:42>> What he's saying is you had a culture in Greece. And he he later in there he talks he says, "Even though I'm using the terminology of our time, we're not In other words, he's calling them the Athenians, but he does That's why I call them the proto-Athenians, the before the Athenians, cuz we're going back now 9 to 10,000 years ago.
20:04And so he's [clears throat] saying that um that the Athenians, proto-Athenians, organized all of the uh the civilizations and societies within the Mediterranean to repel these invaders that came forth from the Atlantic to subdue them and enslave them.
20:23So this was the great action, right? And then immediately subsequent to that is when this great destruction occurred that resulted not only in the destruction of Atlantis, but also he describes, and this is something a lot of people forget or are unaware of, is that he also describes a major destruction in uh the the Hellenic Peninsula. And talks about a huge um major erosional event >> A erosional event?
20:51>> Erosion, which would mean Erosion usually happens as a consequence of intense prolonged rainfall.
20:58>> Right.
20:59>> Yeah, so that was kind of the implication there. Um And so uh Let's see. So uh So, [clears throat] Solon to this city, now this is um in Egypt. I think he's talking about uh I think he's talking about Alexandria. He was in Alexandria.
21:18Uh to this city came Solon, who was received by the ancient priests with great honor, and he asked the priests, who are most skillful of skillful in such matters, about antiquity.
21:28And made the discovery that neither he nor any other Hellen knew anything worth mentioning about the times of old. On one occasion, when he was drawing them on to speak of antiquity, he began to tell them about the most ancient things in our part of the world. Right? Um And after doing that, then uh thereupon one of the priests, who was of a very great age, said, "Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are but children.
21:56And there is never an old man who is a Hellen, meaning somebody old, like he says here, um who has knowledge which has been passed down."
22:06"I mean to say," he replied, "that in mind you are all young. There is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age." It's spelled h o a r y, hoary with age. "And I will tell you the reason for this." And this I've got this underlined here because I think this is one of the most critically important insights that we glean from Plato here.
22:29He says, "There have been and will be again many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes. The greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes. Um >> [clears throat] >> So, that's actually really interesting, too, because this it with like when I listen to you talk over the years when when when I've heard you explain things, there's two things that you marry very well. You marry the science of what's happened on Earth and what cataclysms look like and the evidence we have of that archaeologically [snorts] speaking. And then you also go off of
23:08the written word that we have access to from people telling stories. And the ones you're telling right now where where it's like about Atlantis with Plato, it's thousands of years removed from when this stuff happened, which means there's obviously I mean we have you tell someone a story 5 minutes ago, some some information will change a little bit. It's like the it's it's the flaw of man that we kind of change things over time. That said, that underlying part is a very broad point that is scientifically true that these cataclysms happen. He's admitting that in that writing. And that it's caused by basically, for lack of better
23:41way of putting it, Mother Nature.
23:43Therefore, >> Yes.
23:44>> even to me, the way I take that as like a layman here, is that even if this this story that they're telling of Atlantis itself is not necessarily like true individually, what he's saying is that something like it at some point is just because statistically speaking the Earth is probably gone through these cycles many times before.
24:04>> That's exactly right. That's exactly it.
24:08So, let's go on here. Then then then to me, this is how he prefaces the story of Atlantis.
24:13Um and I think this is very significant.
24:15He says, "There is a story and this is the priest talking to Solon. There's a story which even you have preserved.
24:23That once upon a time Phaeton, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, he burned up all that was upon the Earth and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt.
24:40>> Thunderbolt.
24:40>> Now, this is where it's really important. Now, this this is Plato. Now, this has the form of a myth, but it really signifies a declination of the bodies moving around the Earth and in the heavens and the great conflagration of all things upon the earth recurring recurring at long intervals of time.
25:01>> Can you translate that?
25:03>> Into Greek?
25:04>> No.
25:05>> [laughter] >> Oh.
25:06>> But back into English. Like explain what he meant by that.
25:09>> Well, declination means to decline, to to descend downwards. So, he's talking about an object that's moving in the heavens and it descends downward and sets the earth on fire.
25:20>> Like >> Like >> Like an asteroid >> Like an asteroid or a piece of a comet.
25:25Yes.
25:26>> What?
25:26>> And now, of course, we have the evidence that there was, in fact, some kind of a cosmic encounter during the Younger Dryas.
25:33>> What's our evidence for that?
25:35>> Oh my god.
25:36>> We got all day, Randall.
25:37>> Oh.
25:39Well, there's a whole host of proxies that You know what a proxy is? A proxy is something that we Since we can't see it, we have to look at the evidence.
25:48It's like coming onto a crime scene and looking at footprints and fingerprints and and doing a forensic analysis of a crime scene. And so, you piece together what actually happened. We don't can't see what's happening. We don't have video clips of it, but we can reconstruct the events by looking at proxies. Now, proxies can be any number of things. Um the one that I'm going to show you a graph of here momentarily is ice core proxies. Now, um you probably know that trees, when they grow, they add one ring of growth each year.
26:24>> Yes.
26:24>> Right?
26:25Okay. So, here's a here's a very obvious proxy. If you have uh if you have plenty of rainfall and the trees will are proliferating, right?
26:37And you get a nice big fat tree ring, right? Because there's plenty of water.
26:43Let's say now you have a drought.
26:45Right? So, now you end up getting a skinny little ring because the trees aren't growing as much during a drought, right? So, let's say a tree is growing next to a lake or a pond.
26:57And you've got all this other vegetation here. Well, every year, there's pollen and leaves and biological material being created from the surrounding terrain.
27:09A lot of that, particularly pollen, which can be wind-borne, is blown and it settles into the water.
27:16It can also be carried by by surface runoff. If you got rainfall, it's flushing water down the creeks, so you now might have biological material in the creeks. You have the pollen.
27:28Now, let's say you've got a lot of rainfall. Okay, so now you got vigorous streams. They're eroding stuff, so now you go and you take a core from the bottom of that lake.
27:39And you look bring that core up and let's picture it's maybe 4 or 5 in in diameter. You bring that up and now it's layered, right? Just in a way like a tree ring.
27:48You look at those layers, and you can discern all kinds of you can extract information from those layers.
27:55For example, if there's more rain, there's going to be more sediment washed into the lake.
28:01So, you get a thicker layer. Also, because of the fact that there's more rain, the creeks and streams are more vigorous, they're able to entrain or pick up more coarse sediment.
28:13Now, in a in a season where you only have a little bit of rainfall, say during a drought. Okay, now the the the layer, the strata in the core, is thinner.
28:26The material composing that strata is finer grained because the water is more sluggish, right? Now, within that, you can also look and say, "Okay, look, here's pollen.
28:38Here's leaves. Here's pieces of vegetation." And you look at that and let's say that you see that well, you know what? For a long time had aspen trees and larch trees and things growing around this pond which like northern climates and they like cold weather.
28:56>> [clears throat] >> But then they're gone and you got these pine trees that like more temperate environments.
29:01Well, right there it's going to tell you obviously if the the composition of the adjacent forest changes, you had a climate change, see? That's an example of a proxy. Now, in ice cores, one of the things you you can have the same thing. You can have dust that forms in ice cores. One of the things this is interesting.
29:20If you have uh wind blowing, let's say off the continent like a lot of the ice cores that have been extracted and studied are from Greenland.
29:29Now, if you got a westerly wind coming and that wind is picking up pollen or other, you know, uh things like uh isotopes, particularly oxygen isotopes, not so much picked up by wind, but oxygen isotopes are in the ocean.
29:45They're in in water. Now, you have oxygen 16, oxygen 18. Oxygen 18 is heavier, right? Now, >> [clears throat] >> there's now the course the percentages are very precise, but we have the technology to to identify the ratio of 18 to 16.
30:04Now, if the ratio of heavier oxygen increases relative to the lighter oxygen, it's telling you that there's more energy available to evaporate water from the ocean.
30:18Then, when that water vapor precipitates out, it's the heavier oxygen that falls to earth first, see? Now, what happens is if you pull up an ice core where precipitation is snow coming out, that signature, that ratio in of 18 to 16 will be captured in the snow.
30:38So, you can now look at that and you can discern that there have been things going on temperature primarily temperature changes. So in other words temperature warms up, you got more energy. Now that evaporates more water out of the oceans, has more oxygen 18 in it. Oxygen 18 is the first to precipitate out, etc. So now without going into all the details of it, that is a very powerful proxy for temperature change. And I'm going to show you some graphs uh here shortly are based on those uh analysis uh taken from the center of the Greenland ice sheet uh between the late '80s and the early '90s.
31:19>> So one thing I always wonder about this is unfortunately as you know way better than me there's all kinds of gatekeeping anytime you're looking at anything in ancient history to where if you question something that was previously assumed to be the truth based on new evidence they say, "No, no, no, [ __ ] that. You can't bring that in here." When you're looking at an event like this, not necessarily the exact one that we were talking about before this, [snorts] but any type of cataclysmic event where you can actually take measurable data like that. Not one, not two, but all kinds of proxy, probably hundreds of them.
31:52>> Mhm.
31:52>> And and lay out a case and say, "Hey, you know how we I'm just going to make up numbers. You know how we thought this event happened in you know year minus 100,000? Well, actually it was minus 90,000 and here's why." Why Why is it still the case that so many places will be like, "No, we're not even allowed to talk about this."?
32:10>> Politics.
32:11I think it comes down to politics.
32:13Because when you want to control society, you have to control the narrative. And the narrative is very entrenched.
32:22You see, and for example, take climate change now. Climate change it's like we are supposed to believe that we are in an unprecedented climate crisis right now.
32:33Yet anybody who studies paleoclimatology, which is the study of ancient climate change, knows that that's not even close to to reality, a reflection of reality. And again, when I pull up some of the proxy graphs here, you're going to see that for yourselves.
32:48And it's it's pretty mind-boggling when you see it. Um why don't we circle very quickly back to Atlantis?
32:55>> Okay.
32:55>> And I'm going to show you um we're we got this so I think an important point here is that Plato prefaces the uh Atlantis story with this reference to the myth of Phaeton. And Phaeton is very clearly, I would recommend reading Bulfinch's Mythology, Greek Mythology.
33:13>> Bulfinch's?
33:14>> Bulfinch.
33:14>> Okay.
33:15>> And he does a really full exposition of the Phaeton myth.
33:20And uh when you read >> or >> What?
33:23>> Is he still alive or was this a while ago?
33:25>> Bulfinch is no longer. He was No, he's >> Feels like that'd be a great podcast.
33:31It's a hard name.
33:32>> Get Bulfinch on here.
33:34>> [laughter] >> Uh Anyways, yeah, here, declination, a bending, sloping, or moving downward.
33:42A swerving or deviating. So you've got you got a picture. It's an object orbiting probably between the Sun and Jupiter, crossing the Earth the Earth's path, and then for whatever reason, there there could be multiple reasons why something like that would swerve from its path.
34:01Right? Like a close encounter. Well, do you remember July 1993, Shoemaker-Levy 9?
34:10Okay, now you guys need to know what this This was the cosmos talking to the human species.
34:15>> The cosmos talking to the human species.
34:18>> Look up Joe, look up Shoemaker-Levy 9.
34:23And there'll probably be some photos or probably be some uh maybe even an artist's rendering. There we go, that's the chain of pearls right there. So >> Wow.
34:33>> So here's what happened. This prior a few months prior this was one commentary nucleus.
34:40And it made a very close grazing pass by Jupiter. Now it had been undoubtedly circulate circulating between Jupiter and the Sun for millennium. But what was happening was it was getting each passage it was getting drawn in closer and closer to the big gravitational mass of Jupiter.
34:59Finally it's penultimate meaning the next to the last one it went so close to Jupiter that Jupiter's gravity field ripped it apart.
35:09And a single commentary nucleus became 21 pieces.
35:13Okay, so now astronomers began here we go. Yeah. So astronomers began tracking its motion.
35:20And they realized they they had two things. They knew the timing of it from like 3 to 4 months of observations and they knew the shape of the orbit.
35:31Right? Those are the two key things you need to predict.
35:36So they predicted that July of 1994 when this made its perihelion or close passage around the Sun goes back out to Jupiter. But when it was crossing Jupiter's orbit it was going to be crossing that orbit precisely at the time Jupiter was right there at that intersection. 21 pieces hit [applause] Jupiter over the week of I think it was second week of July 1994 I believe.
36:02>> dead on.
36:03>> They hit it dead on. Yeah, Joe just had some photos of those impacts. Any one of those impacts would have ended civilization on Earth had it hit the Earth.
36:14>> Oh yeah, there it is.
36:16>> Oh well now that's not Okay, so this is a Okay, this is called a catena which is what you have when you have This is like a machine gun uh impact where you've got a bunch of stuff that has that has fragmented, but they haven't separated.
36:34Like when you look at when you go back to the picture of Shoemaker, you're going to see that they've separated.
36:40Right? And yeah, there we go.
36:42>> Back one. Back one, Joe.
36:45Hey guys, if you haven't already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button. It's a huge, huge help. Thank you.
36:51No, no, no. They Keep going.
36:53Right there. Is that what you're looking for?
36:56>> No, what the what you just go back to there, Joe.
36:59In that pho- in that photo of Jupiter what we just saw, you had those dark spots.
37:05Uh, but yeah, yeah, there we Well, there's one of them. But you could see about I think three or four of them.
37:12You see that dark spot?
37:13>> Yep.
37:14>> That's a plume.
37:16>> A plume?
37:16>> A plume of intense superheated gases rising up to the surface of Jupiter where one of these things pl- You see, Jupiter doesn't have a solid surface.
37:26It's a gaseous.
37:28Um, there was one that you pulled up, Joe, where we could see uh, Laetitia. Look at the bottom across uh, across the bottom. I think you can see three plumes coming up.
37:40There was like three impacts.
37:43And and can you see what I'm talking about?
37:45Oh, they're huge. And each one of those is completely would swallow up the Earth.
37:50>> I was going to say, like that's completely to scale way bigger than what the dinosaurs dealt with.
37:57>> Well, the time that scale. It it it it it is on that scale. And and you got 21 of those pieces.
38:04So, at the it was the most watched astronomical event of the 20th century.
38:08>> Sorry, I missed it.
38:09>> Yeah. Where were where were you, man?
38:11What?
38:12>> I was just born.
38:13>> [laughter] >> That's crazy though.
38:16>> Oh, it is crazy. But, see, this is a big wake-up call because nobody had predicted anything like this.
38:23And then it occurred and it's like, "Okay, how often does this happen?"
38:26>> How long did they How long before it actually occurred did they realize, "Oh [ __ ] something's happening"? Like a few days or a few weeks?
38:32>> so it was discovered in March of '93 >> and it happened in July.
38:36>> And it happened in July of '94. So, those pieces had to make this circuit around the sun and then back out towards Jupiter.
38:44So, when it They were able 3 months of observations, roughly. You now have the shape of the elliptical orbit and you have what's called the epoch, which is the you know, once you get enough observations, enough measurements, you can then project. So, you have the epoch and you have the ellipse.
39:06So, they were able to predict that there would be an apocalypse on Jupiter.
39:10>> Well, there was. Holy [ __ ] >> was, of course, you know, on Earth that would've been an Well, if if that if those had hit Earth, it would've probably sterilized the Earth. We wouldn't be having this conversation now.
39:21>> We'd just be gone.
39:22>> Well, yeah.
39:24>> How quickly?
39:2610 minutes?
39:27>> Well, it took a week for all 21 pieces to hit Jupiter. And clearly, by the time the 21st piece would've hit, yeah, life is pretty much eradicated for the most part.
39:37>> Yeah, when when [snorts] when I had Ken Lacovara in here, he's a paleontologist and he was describing how quickly the post-dinosaur impact, like where it was geographically, I can't remember off the top of my head, and then >> Chicxulub. Northern Yucatán Peninsula was >> Northern Yucatán Peninsula, but he described like something 2,000 miles away, like minute by minute, how quickly it would've been gone and you're just like, whoa.
40:00>> Now, see, the thing there is that the the the Chicxulub impact that wiped out the dinosaurs is 66 million years ago.
40:07>> Mhm.
40:07>> [clears throat] >> So, there's no really political implica- or biological or evolutionary implications.
40:15But, when you start talking about a major impact, 12,000 years ago.
40:18>> Now there's political >> See, now there's people.
40:20>> Mhm.
40:22>> And See, I'm of the mind, having now immersed myself for years in the myths, the common mythology of the human species, that it's not just you know, ignorant superstition, you know, inventing these scenarios because they're filled with fear and they don't understand any science. See, I don't I don't buy that. I think that these myths that have come down to us are Sure, they're filtered through the common understanding of the time, which may have been, you know, pre-scientific.
40:56But, the information that's encoded in those myths is scientific and can be if if looked at through that lens, just like what Plato was saying here.
41:03>> Right.
41:04>> See?
41:05And in Bulfinch, he at at the end of his uh his uh discussion of the myth of Phaeton, he even makes the analogy that that a comet is probably the most likely explanation.
41:17>> Mhm.
41:18>> And there's others, you know, Origen uh who thinks that the that the Star of David, for example, was a comet.
41:27>> The Star of David was a comet? I haven't heard that in this before.
41:30>> Oh, it's it's been out there for years, for for centuries, actually. Going Yeah.
41:36But, it's again, it's placed in this the realm of the supernatural.
41:40And so, it's not really something that anybody would be looking for any kind of a naturalistic explanation for it.
41:48>> So, what what were you doing We started this off way at the beginning with your trip to the Azores, looking for evidence of Atlantis. So, what were you doing there specifically?
41:57>> Okay. Um >> [clears throat] >> Well, okay.
42:01>> And then we'll get to those proxy graphs as well. I'd love to see those.
42:06>> So, many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories.
42:13But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valor. For these histories tell of a mighty power which was aggressing wantonly against the whole of Europe and Asia and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. For in those days the Atlantic was navigable and there was an island. Now get this what he's describing here, the geography. There was an island situated in front of the straits which you call the columns of Heracles.
42:42The island was larger than Libya and Asia put together. Now, this has been >> Libya and Asia put together?
42:48>> Well, we have to provide a context.
42:50>> Okay.
42:51>> Okay, so Libya and Asia was not Libya and Asia that we know.
42:56No as Libya and Asia.
42:58Uh but there there was still once you see this the explanation I believe is that um we're looking at a an island complex.
43:09Okay, let let's go on here.
43:12We'll come back to that. Now, look what he says that this island was the way to other islands and from those islands you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean.
43:23For this sea which is within the straits of Heracles, meaning the Mediterranean, is only a harbor having a narrow entrance which is the straits of Gibraltar, but that other is an real sea and the the surrounding land may be most truly called a continent. Now, let me let me just speed on here to a to a bathymetric map of what we're looking at.
43:48Here we go. Let's see.
43:50Let's see what's going to be the best one to look at.
43:53>> This is kind of trippy watching on the ATEM this time cuz we couldn't get the other.
43:59We were having HDMI troubles before we started everybody, so I'm watching on the ATEM instead of the TV, but >> Now, there's you know, this is way beyond what the the full lecture that you see here, I've given it one time in two parts. It was 8 hours.
44:15>> 8 hours?
44:16>> 8 hours.
44:18Well, the reason is is I wanted >> somewhere?
44:21>> It is recorded, yeah.
44:22>> So, I could we can go watch that?
44:24>> Yeah.
44:24>> On YouTube?
44:25>> Uh Becker probably knows where it is.
44:28>> I'm going to ask him afterwards. We got to link that down below.
44:30>> mean this is the whole way I take line by line, I go through Plato.
44:34>> Oh, yeah.
44:35>> And then uh >> Pop a mushroom and listen to that.
44:37There's a Saturday sorted.
44:39>> [laughter] >> Okay. Uh Okay, so let's let let let's look at the conditions at the end of the last ice age. So, we're looking here at a a graphic which shows the configuration of ice mass over North America and Northwestern Europe.
44:55>> Oh, wow.
44:56>> And the amount of ice here is greater than the amount total amount of ice on the planet today.
45:02Now, so you've got I'm going to go to the next one here. This looks at the North American. So, you've got two ice sheets here. You've got the Laurentide, which is the big one, which is about the same size as the South Pole ice cap. And then you got a smaller one over here in Western North America called the Cordilleran, which is about the was about the size of the modern Greenland ice sheet. And then you've got Greenland up here, of course. Now, so basically what happened when you have double the amount of ice, that is frozen ocean water, right?
45:35>> Yeah.
45:35>> So, you don't pull 6 million cubic miles of ocean water out, freeze it, and put it on top of the continental land masses without sea level dropping.
45:45>> Right.
45:45>> Sea levels dropped at least 400 ft.
45:49Some put it about 450 ft. Now, there's a lot of talk today fear about sea level rise. Well, see is sea level going to rise another foot in the next century?
45:58Well, what we now know is the sea level at the end of the last ice age rose over 400 ft.
46:03>> 400. ft. Now, I want you guys to do a thought exercise here and anybody listening do a thought exercise. You're standing on the seashore, you know, standing at the beach, nice, you know, let's say if you're standing anywhere like overlooking at the Atlantic Ocean.
46:20Or I'm down in Georgia standing there.
46:22Now, what happens if sea level starts going down? And it goes down 400 ft.
46:29Does it go down 400 ft and you're still going to be standing on the beach?
46:32No.
46:34Sea level is When sea level goes down, the coastline moves, moves seaward. When sea level rises, you have two terms, transgression.
46:45When sea level rises, you have a transgression of sea level. So, existing coastlines then get drowned.
46:53So, if we go back to the late glacial maximum, when the at the greatest extent of the ice on the land mass, sea levels are 400 ft lower, but what happens is the coastlines have migrated, regressed.
47:08So, you have regression when the sea the coastline regresses when sea levels goes down, it transgresses when sea level rises.
47:17So, one of the things I've maintained for years now is that really some of the future of archaeology and paleontology is going to be submarine because during the ice age where you one of the places you would probably want to create a settlement would be on coastlines because now you have access to the marine ecologies, you got fish.
47:38>> Right. Of course.
47:39>> Right? Well, those coastlines of this of the ice age are 400 ft underwater now.
47:44>> [laughter] >> So, think about that.
47:46>> That goes back to that Cuba example.
47:48That's perfect right there. Cuz that's way I I forget God, off the top of my head, maybe that was like 100 m or something.
47:55>> 100 m would be about 300 20, 330 ft.
47:58>> the same neighborhood. Yeah, yeah. If I'm right about that, we got to double check that, but Wow. So there And that's what's crazy because how much What is it we've only explored like 5% of the oceans or something like that? There's 95% that's still unexplored.
48:12>> Or more than that, yeah.
48:14Yeah, I mean we're just in our infancy.
48:16And see, this is the thing that annoys me about this book in the '70s. So they declared, well, what we now know about the oceans is that there couldn't have been any land sunken landmass.
48:27>> Who declared this?
48:28>> Well, the geologist that wrote the book.
48:30I can do The editor of the book and and one of the She actually did some good work. Her name was Dorothy Vitaliano. She's no longer with us, but she was the editor of the book and wrote, I think they like the concluding chapter where she says, "I'm afraid we're going to have to just admit that Plato meant this as an allegory and nothing more. That there was no real evidence. However, uh Let's see here right >> Randall found something in the Azores.
48:59I'm feeling it.
49:00>> [laughter] [gasps and sighs] >> uh >> [clears throat] >> Let's see here if I can find a good uh Yeah, here we go.
49:09All right. So, check this out now. When you're looking at this, you can see right here uh Do you see my cursor?
49:17>> I can't see your cursor, no.
49:19>> Let's see. How do I Why are you not seeing my cursor?
49:22>> this. Here.
49:24So do you show me Are you pointing here?
49:27>> Yeah, you see the Mid-Atlantic Ridge winding its way up through the Mid-Atlantic and keep going up a little bit and right there. There's there's a sunken landmass right there.
49:36>> Okay.
49:37>> And it is a sunken landmass.
49:40>> Got it. So >> the Azores Plateau.
49:43>> So for people because they couldn't see my finger there what it's pointing at, but if you're if you go back 1 second, Randall, to what you had >> This will This will show you better.
49:52>> yeah, it's perfect. So, you can tell where it is now, people.
49:55>> Yeah, so remember Plato's description.
49:57He says you go outside the Pillars of Hercules, which is the Straits of Gibraltar, and you come to islands, and beyond that were other islands, and then beyond that was the true continent.
50:10>> So, islands, islands, continent.
50:12>> So, look at the Look at the geography here. You have islands just outside, then you have more Now, you can see there's a triple plate junction right >> Are you pointing at the Canary Islands as the first one?
50:24>> Uh >> Cuz I can't see your cursor. Sorry.
50:26>> Do you see my cursor now?
50:27>> No.
50:27>> Why are you not seeing my cursor?
50:29>> That's all right. Here, let's do this again.
50:31>> Okay.
50:32>> Where Are you pointing at these islands first?
50:34>> Yes.
50:34>> Okay.
50:35>> Go north. Okay, you're right there.
50:38Yeah.
50:38>> two, and then >> No, actually go go to the Straits of Gibraltar, right there, and then come straight west.
50:45Stop. Islands.
50:47>> Okay.
50:48>> Go straight west again.
50:50Islands, nine islands, the Azores. Go west continuous continuously to the other side of the ocean. Now, you get to the true continent that he's describing.
51:00>> North America?
51:02>> It fits exactly.
51:04>> But he's saying Atlantis would I'm sorry, did I hear that right? Atlantis is before where the true continent is, so it would be >> It's before.
51:11>> Okay, got it. Got it.
51:12>> Yes.
51:12>> Got it. So, people out there, if you were following along, it's literally just draw Take your finger and move exactly west from where Gibraltar was on that map, and you got it.
51:22>> And you'll get There was islands there, most of which are sunk now cuz of the 400-ft sea level rise. Then, you come out there and you see that that land mass there in the Mid-Atlantic, and you can see that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge with the with the junction the plate junction coming down.
51:41Now, you can also follow another plate junction right on over, and it hits where uh basically almost where Portugal now is.
51:50You see the crack? Okay, so that's a triple plate junction. So you got the upper one, the one on the upper right is the Eurasian plate. Below that is the African plate and to the west of that is the North American plate.
52:07And that plate triple plate junction is a very interesting place. Now there are nine islands right there and those islands are the are the peaks of mountains, nine mountains.
52:18>> And those mountains are formed over tens of thousands of years by the plate movements.
52:23>> By the volcanism. That's the result of the plates moving, yes. You got it.
52:29You're getting the picture. Now those mountains, if you go to the bottom of a mile or a mile and a half down, you've got a a landmass.
52:39And oceanographers, marine geologists refer to it as a microcontinent.
52:45>> [clears throat] >> And that microcontinent was above above sea level during the late glacial maximum.
52:52>> call it microcontinent obviously cuz it's way smaller, but do we have >> Right, it's not a real continent.
52:58>> have an idea of what kind of size it could have been?
53:01>> Oh yeah.
53:02>> Mileage wise?
53:03>> Well, yeah.
53:04Roughly 300 miles north to south and 200 miles east to west.
53:08>> All right, that's not nothing. That's >> No, no, that's not nothing.
53:10>> That's certainly not the continental United States, but that's uh That'd be a That'd be a decently sized state in America.
53:18>> Oh yeah, it's just a little bit smaller than Iceland.
53:22If you for comparison.
53:23>> Yeah.
53:24>> Yeah.
53:26And uh Let's see here.
53:31So this is where we get into the the science of it.
53:34Um and I'm just going to read a few little things because if you go through the whole 8-hour [snorts] lecture, I get into all of this.
53:42>> Oh, we're >> going to be doing that, but >> So, this goes back Okay, here's 1969, tectonic implications of glacioeustatic sea level fluctuations. Now, what does that mean? I'll interpret that.
53:57>> Thank you.
53:58>> Well, that's the LEAST I CAN DO, RIGHT?
54:01>> I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. I just need the people out there to know.
54:03>> Well, of course you know, but for Joe's sake we have to >> [laughter] >> We have to define it, right?
54:08Um Okay, glacio just refers to to glaciers.
54:12Okay, eustatic has to do with the rise and fall of That's we talk about eustasy is the rise and fall of sea level related to how much glacier mass is growing or shrinking on the continents. So, ice melts, glaciers melt, you have a eustatic sea level rise.
54:34Glaciers grow and expand in mass, you have eustatic sea level fall. So, the term glacioeustatic is referring to that process of the rise and fall of sea level relative to the changing mass of glaciers on the continent.
54:50>> Got it.
54:50>> Okay.
54:51Now, this guy R. K. Matthews, he was a very distinguished marine geologist who had studied the ocean floors and studied what's called rheology, which is the study of the plastic movement of material when it's under stress. Okay.
55:10So, the question here is the geoid, which is the basically the Earth, and you know the Earth Joe, you know this, right? That the Earth is not a perfect sphere.
55:21It's a It's a spheroid, right? So, when the Earth is spinning, you have the centrifugal force that throws the mass of the Earth towards the equator.
55:32So, the equatorial bulge is 26 mi greater the equatorial axis 26 miles greater than the pole, right?
55:41Okay, so now if you have shifting loads on the surface that causes changes in the shape of the geoid.
55:53Now, you can picture this.
55:55If you travel from the equator to the North Pole, you've essentially gone downhill 13 miles.
56:01Right? 20 Picture this. 26 miles greater this way.
56:06Right? So, picture 7,926 miles equatorial diameter.
56:137,900 polar diameter.
56:16Total of 26 miles difference.
56:19Now, if you're going from the equator to the pole, you've gone half that distance. So, you've gone You're You're now 13 miles closer to the center of the Earth.
56:29If you go from equator to the pole.
56:31>> To the center of the Earth?
56:33>> To the center of the Earth, yes.
56:35>> Oh, because it's I understand. Now I got it. It took a minute. Cuz it You're up actually like where it's flat. Okay.
56:40>> Okay.
56:41We We We >> We're following now.
56:43>> Okay, good. All right, we're there.
56:45>> be careful. Joe's a flat-Earther, so you know. Oh, and then we're going to have to convince him.
56:49>> I'll try to >> [laughter] >> I'll try to keep that in mind.
56:52Uh I I know I know how sensitive those flat-Earthers are when you start challenging them.
56:58Uh Okay, so here's what I'm getting at.
57:01When you like if you go over to Hudson Bay, Canada right now. That was the center of the great Laurentide ice sheet. It was almost 2 miles thick.
57:09Well, you don't pile up Here, think of it this way. The The The new uh uh World Trade Center building, 1,000 >> Yeah, yeah.
57:18>> 1,776 ft tall.
57:21>> Yep.
57:21>> So, you put two of those on top of each other, you're still not as thick as the ice sheet was.
57:27>> Whoa.
57:28>> Over central Canada.
57:30>> Quick, hit camera five, Joe. You can see it in the corner up there.
57:33>> Yeah.
57:34>> Yeah, so top right corner behind the Empire State Well, that doesn't really do it justice, but that's that's quite large.
57:41>> Yeah, what is the Empire? About 1,100, something like that?
57:44>> freedom is 1776. I don't remember the Empire height off the top of my head, but you know, I'll check it.
57:50>> Well, it's definitely 1,200.
57:531,200.
57:53>> 1,200, yeah.
57:54>> So, imagine Okay, so 1,200 >> Basically times three.
57:58>> 2,400.
57:59>> Uh-huh.
58:00>> Triple that, 3,600.
58:03Quadruple that, you're 4,800. You're still four Empire State Buildings stacked on top of each other still not as thick as the ice.
58:10>> as thick as it.
58:11>> No.
58:12Try to imagine what that weight does.
58:16It presses the crust of the earth down, probably between 1 and 2,000 ft.
58:22Remove that in a geological instant, the land starts rebounding. All that mass, that volume of ice, melts, pours most of it the all of the Laurentide poured into the Atlantic Ocean.
58:38So, you're transferring this incredible amount of weight from the off the surface of the continent into the ocean basins.
58:46>> The Laurentide real quick and just Sorry, I remembered the It was the Laurentide and what was the one on the West Coast called?
58:51>> Cordilleran.
58:52>> Cordilleran. So, there was technically I I wanted to ask this back when we did that, but we got off it. Is there land mass in between those two? That's why they're separate? Cuz I couldn't tell on that map.
59:02>> No.
59:03No. In fact, if you ever heard of the ice-free corridor, which was the old models of how North America was first populated, that people came across the Bering Land Bridge, came down this ice-free corridor that was between the Cordilleran. So, if you've ever traveled in Western Canada, >> No.
59:22>> Okay, so if you go out Alberta and then British British Columbia.
59:27>> Okay. British Columbia is the Rocky Mountains. And the Rocky Mountain Front is right in Western Alberta.
59:35And that area would have been between the two ice sheets. Now at their maximum the two ice sheets coalesced.
59:44Let's see. That doesn't have a good glacial map. Put on uh North America glacier ice age. Try that.
59:52>> North America ice age map on here? Okay.
59:56>> Let's see if you could Let me put my glasses on so I can see what we're looking at here better.
60:02>> Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge huge help.
60:08And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.
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