To smear an entire movement like that because of the FBI's false flag operation that was definitely carried out that day lends to division in the United States so we fight against each other instead of coming together to fight against the who are actually doing this.
0:20So this interview we're about to show you with Matt Kennard. Matt Kennard's a great journalist, he does a lot of great work but uh the work he did in this is very enlightening about the the horrible recruiting that's happening inside the military except according to me he does a lot of a bad uh connections. He he draws the wrong conclusions from this and if you stick around long enough somewhere around the 25-minute mark I'm going to push back on him about his conclusions in this book so don't I I'm saying this cuz I don't want you to turn it off because you don't like the conclusions he's coming
0:51up with because I get to that at around the 25-minute mark and I push back at him on the Oklahoma City bombing and January 6th and the FBI's fake terrorism things that they fake uh said that they stopped. We all know that FBI are the people setting up these terrorist things so they can say we stopped them. Anyway, so I just wanted to give you that uh it's a great interview. Uh he writes a great book. There's a lot of great stuff in this book if you if you read it you'll see what I mean.
1:16Thanks for watching. Okay, we have a special guest with us Matt Matt Kennard co-founder chief investigator at Declassified UK a news outlet investigating British foreign policy. He was previously a fellow and then director. He wasn't some guy, he was a fellow and then director at the Center for Investigative Journalism in London.
1:37His latest book is there it is a regular army how the US military recruited neo-Nazis, gang members and criminals with a forward by Abby Martin and an afterword by a friend of the show John Kiriakou former CIA agent. Welcome back to the show Matt. I appreciate you uh uh accommodating our schedule. You've been very patient. I appreciate that.
2:00Thanks for having me. It's good to be back.
2:02So, you're you're So, this book is is a very a very interesting about the decline in standards that the US military has had since the war on terror started in their recruiting effort.
2:17Um uh Your your book opens kind of with a striking encounter with a guy named Forrest Fogarty. He's a self-described neo-Nazi, Screwdriver fan, with a band tattoos who served in Iraq.
2:32Uh tell me, what did that conversation and the others you had like it, what did it reveal to you about how commanders viewed extremists in the ranks during the war on terror?
2:43Well, it was interesting. Um so, Forrest served from 2004 to 5.
2:49And I mean, he was a I met him in in Tampa, Florida.
2:54And then I went to the zoo with him and his kids, actually, on later on. And yeah, his story was one I heard again and again and again. He was like, "Look, I went to Iraq with these uh Nazi tattoos. I served in Iraq with them, and my commanders liked it."
3:11That's what he told me. He said that they thought that because I was a Nazi, they would send me on the hardest missions, I'd be a better warrior. Um and I heard this again and again and again. And of course, there are regulations in place for this kind of stuff.
3:24Uh if you have a swastika on your arm or SS Nazi bolts, in normal times, you would be barred.
3:31But you know what happened during the war on terror. They missed their recruitment targets massively. They didn't plan for a long-term occupation of hundreds of thousands of troops, which eventually uh happened. And importantly, they didn't institute what would have solved the problem, which was uh the draft, which they did during Vietnam. And why Why they do that? Because they knew that the war in Iraq was already so unpopular that if they did the draft it would be the straw that broke the camel's back and increase opposition to the war and and and pressure them to withdraw like like they did in Vietnam. So instead of
4:05doing that they just got rid of all the regulations that have been built up since the Vietnam war in fact. So you mentioned the neo-Nazis that's just one category. The gangs was in terms of numbers was was even more serious you know. So one analyst told me that he thought 10% of the US military was gangs might still be.
4:23So and and again this this is not a Bush Republican the Obama Democrat story. It all the stuff that was initiated under Bush continued under Obama and then you have now 2 million veterans of the war on terror back in the United States. And the people that that we're talking thousands of neo-Nazis and white supremacists extremists who didn't go to Iraq because they believed in the mission. They went to Iraq to get training courtesy of the US taxpayer which they wanted to bring back to the United States to start what they call which is racial holy war which is this all against all racial civil war
4:59in America which will end with a white supremacist regime in Washington. And they're all still back here. And you know you saw some of them on January 6th. A disproportionate amount of the the rioters on January 6th were veterans and active duty actually. There were some Marines actually involved.
5:15So this is a hugely worrying topic for for every American now because they're not they didn't come back to become priests. They came back to to cause havoc within the United States. And of course the other side of that is what were they doing when they were out in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you're handing a white supremacist or a neo-Nazi a M-16 or an M-4 in a country full of brown people where you basically have complete impunity you can guess what happens and you saw that again and again. I went through in the book and tried to link atrocities that were committed to the deregulation of the of the standards.
5:50And again and again and again you saw that there were clear links. Another category is criminals. So, in one case, I don't know if your viewers will remember the Mahmudiyah massacre in Iraq in 2006 where a group of American soldiers went to this house it just south of [clears throat] Baghdad separated the father and his daughters from one of the daughters killed the father and those daughters, went into the other room where this other girl 14-year-old girl was. All of them raped her and then killed her and then burned down the house. Now, they said that was the work of insurgents.
6:24And that would have stayed like that.
6:25The US military accepted that, but there was one person in the one soldier in the platoon who had a crisis of conscience and revealed what had happened. But the leader of that massacre was called Steven D. Green. And he got into the military through what was called a moral waiver which massively expanded during the war on terror. These are waivers they can give you know you can't get in if you're a felon or you there's certain serious misdemeanors you've committed in the past. They got rid of all those regulations and Steven D. Green was the beneficiary of a moral waiver. So, again and again and again you see the
6:54atrocities committed and and and all these many of them are still in the military now. I mean just to finish, we've now got Pete Hegseth who's the secretary of war after he changed the Department of Defense to the Department of War. He's someone who literally has extremist tattoos on his arms and his and his upper body. You know, he's got the Jerusalem cross which is neo-crusader imagery. He's got Kafir written in Arabic on his arm which is a statement to say I'm a he sees Islam as a civilizational threat. He talks about the war on terror in Let me sorry, in the war in Iran in in neo-crusader and end times rhetoric. So, it's really
7:31come full circle this story and it's the the the the deregulation and the impunity given to neo-Nazis, white supremacists has actually become institutionalized. In his testimony to Congress when he was appointed uh Secretary of War by Trump, he said "We're not going to bother looking at extremism anymore because that's a political witch hunt in within the US military." So, what that message is is just saying, "Look, anyone can join now." And it as I say, it was already the case, but he's actually formalized it and institutionalized it. And you're talking about the most powerful military in the history of the world. So, when you when
8:08it's when it's when it's overseen by someone like that, when it's got so many of its soldiers who have these ideological convictions, it's hugely worrying not just for Americans, but for the whole world, you know.
8:23That's That's definitely worrying, troublesome, and all those things. We're going to get to January 6th in a minute that you brought up, but you also you had significant insider access as a reporter.
8:38Tell me, what was the most surprising or disturbing account you heard from recruiters or officials about the pressure to meet quotas under the Rumsfeld doctrine?
8:49Well, it's interesting. So, I actually did some undercover reporting in the sense that I called up recruitment centers and covered up for my British accent by saying I was married to an American and I was naturalized citizen.
9:03And I said I called up five, and every single one I said, "Look, I really want to join, but I've got these I've got this swastika on my arm.
9:10Um is that a problem?" And the the range of responses went from "That will be fine."
9:19to "I don't really know what that is, so I'm sure it'll be all right, but I I'd have to check." So, there was no awareness of even this This is like the most explicit and obvious Nazi insignia. So, it And that came from the top, you know. There was There was There was There were um uh uh, messages going down from the brass and from the the Bush administration saying, "Don't enforce regulations." And also, one of the ways to do that would be not to teach recruiters about them. So, they don't even know about them. So, that that is kind of plausible deniability. If they don't know about them, then you can't
9:53say that they're allowing them in, if you see what I mean. Um, and you saw that again and again and again. And I did speak to senior people within the Pentagon.
10:00And, uh, some of them admitted privately off the record that, uh, regulations weren't being enforced. The ones that had left were very candid about it. And also, you they won't they were whistleblowers about this during the war on terror. A lot of them we don't know their names, or I do, but not a lot of Americans know their names.
10:16But, there was one called Jeffrey Stolsen who I knew who, uh, served in Iraq. And he, I mean, in the book there's lots of pictures that he took of gang graffiti up in Baghdad uh, and around Iraq, you know, like, uh, all the blast walls, different, uh, US military installations had all this gang graffiti. So, he told his commanders.
10:36And they actually persecuted him cuz they didn't want this to get out. They didn't want to get the the the whole issue to to get out to the American people. So, he was eventually discharged and actually treated appallingly and had PTSD and they basically tried to ruin his life.
10:50And you see that again and again. There was one person called Daryl Johnson who was the senior domestic terrorism analyst at the Department of Homeland Security, um, till 2010. Now, he authored a report where he said that veteran community were particularly susceptible to white supremacists and neo-Nazi groups, which is obvious and everyone in this field knows that's true.
11:12But, it became a big issue because he was he was accused of being unpatriotic and and and and, uh, traducing the troops and, you know, the usual propaganda.
11:21And he was fired from his job. He was put out to pasture by the Department of Homeland Security and again was treated appallingly and and had to reconstruct his life. But, you see this again and again and again. Whistleblowers are persecuted rather than celebrated as the heroes they are. So, this is a this is a story which kind of rumbles but rumbled on during the war on terror but rumbles on now.
11:42Um and anyone who raises the alarm is called unpatriotic or uh anti-anti-troop, all the usual nonsense, but it it it it becomes obvious when there's certain incidents, you know, like look, there's historical precedent for this.
12:00Look at Timothy McVeigh's um bombing about in Oklahoma City in 1995. Timothy McVeigh was a veteran of the First Gulf War.
12:08Um and it takes an incubation period for these people once they come back, but you will see violence on the >> [laughter] >> uh I think domestic terrorism from these people. And the other thing is there's a if you read local newspaper reports from around America, you'll see that they these these veteran community, the ones that have been radicalized, uh either after war were radical before they went in, they're committing crimes all around the United States that we never hear about because they're like murders or uh criminal activity.
12:41And then there's the gangs as well, you know, there's the gangs working in the operating within the US military are a massive boon to the drug trade as well.
12:49So, cuz there's installations like Fort Bliss which are near the border with Mexico and the Mexican drug cartels see actually US soldiers as kind of perfect recruits because they could they operate on base, there's there's not the usual uh law enforcement focus on them, they get they have access to weaponry, and again and again and again you saw soldiers being who were who were actually being on the who were on the payroll of the Pentagon becoming involved in drugs trafficking as well. So, it I think it explains a lot about where America is today and how we even got Trump, you know, because the what they the the the um
13:30the degradation of the fighting force within the United States is maybe the most important institution.
13:36Half the congressional budget goes on the Pentagon.
13:39Maybe more according to some estimates.
13:40Some some estimates it's 1.4 trillion.
13:43Officially it's nearly a trillion. Uh you have 800 bases around the world, you know, it's it's it it it's a military empire, the US, and when you have such a transformation within that institution, it's very, very obvious that that's going to percolate out into the wider society and have massive ramifications across all sorts of uh sectors of American society, and I think you're seeing that.
14:09So, you also you detail how the moral waivers and lowered standards allowed in convicted criminals, gang members, at one point one in 10 soldiers, and extremists. Uh So, what what were some of the most egregious individual cases you uncovered of someone who clearly should not have been enlisted?
14:33Well, I mentioned uh Steven D. Green, and that ended with a horrific massacre, but there was another guy called Kenneth Eastridge who came back to the United States and uh was uh eventually arrested and put in prison for murdering a fellow soldier, him and two others uh murdered one of their fellow soldiers. Now, he I I did some research on him after I looked into that case, and he was serving in uh Iraq with uh SS bolts on his arm, and they were on his MySpace page, you know?
15:05Uh and that is what you saw again and again and again was that these people go out there and they'd have complete impunity when they were out there. So, in that in that court case of Kenneth Eastridge, when Jose Barco, one of his uh co-defendants, said uh they'd go around Baghdad taking potshots at locals. Uh and one was hit in the head. That's what he said. So, uh but there was complete impunity in Iraq.
15:30And often you only heard about these soldiers when they came back and killed in America where it's not as easy to get away with that kind of thing. So, you saw that again and again again. And and I mean serving openly with SS bolts, as I say, it's not a it's not you don't need to be some kind of genius to to think about what these people were doing out there.
15:49And then uh the the gangs was there was all sorts of violence. Well, I mean the the the chap the chapter on gangs opens with a hazing ceremony of US soldiers.
16:00You know, where they beat people to within an inch of their life.
16:04And this guy uh I think his name was Wayne Johnson.
16:10Um he was beaten in a while they were serving in the US military. He was beaten so badly in a hazing ceremony to join this gang that he died. Uh and he was I think it was like a 2-minute timed beating and he they put him back in bed and he never woke up. And that was So, there's as I say, it was just rampant. Uh and and then and then of course, the other massive problem, which is linked to all these problems, is PTSD.
16:37Which is which was I don't know why there's there's quite a lot of debate within the field psychology of uh of the veteran community about why the US military has such high rates of PTSD compared to other countries like the UK, which also obviously fought in Afghanistan and Iraq as well, but we didn't see PTSD in our veterans and our soldiers to the same degree. But when you're when you're adding that into the mix, and actually I interviewed Kenneth Eastridge's um lawyer, and she said, "Actually, you know what? The SS bolts were the least of his concerns. He was losing his mind.
17:11There's no way he should have been put back on uh on repeat duty." And that was the another thing they did in the war on terror because they couldn't recruit enough troops. They kept on putting troops back in. It was called stop loss.
17:21They They lengthened the tours and they They shortened the time between the tours. And uh you you can't do that without breaking the minds of the people who are doing it, especially when they're serving uh in such violent uh arenas.
17:34So, add to that to the mix. It was just uh And And at one point, you know, 22 veterans were killing themselves a day in the United States. I I remember when I heard that stat for the first time. I I didn't believe it and I was I checked and it was true. Twen- And they're not all from the war on terror, but that's insane figure. Um so, uh you add the extremism to the the fact that they're the a lot of them had PTSD, then there's the drugs and alcohol which was rife. And again, there's regulations on that in normal times. If you're caught drinking alcohol, you might be disciplined and discharged. If you're caught taking
18:08drugs, same thing.
18:10Uh none of that was applied. And there was one scandal, Abu Ghraib, which obviously became very famous, the torture scandal, but one part of that that wasn't talked about was the fact that investigators found that it was basically a frat party within Abu Ghraib. All the soldiers were pissed out their Pissed in In English English is uh means drunk. We're drunk out their heads in that prison and that was a major part of the reason it was those uh uh rituals of humiliation and stuff was It was very much part of this drinking culture and stuff. So, as I say, so many of these cases that we know about uh are linked
18:43to this thesis, which is that the US military broke during the war on terror.
18:48And that's the technical term that they use within the military. When you can't recruit or retain enough people, you're the force is broken. And it was very clear early on that there was it was breaking. Um and actually, we're seeing some of these things replay because as I say, they I focused on what was what was done secretly or quietly, like the changing regulations on neo-Nazis or the discarding of regulations on neo-Nazis and white supremacist gangs, criminals.
19:13But some of it they did openly cuz they wanted to attract troops. So they raised the enlistment age from 35 to 42. And then they did this program called the retiree retiree recall program, which saw people from veterans from Vietnam being sent out to Iraq. Um and that was all public, but there was there was many other things. There was obviously the No Child Left Behind Act under the Bush administration. A small part of that that many people didn't really understand was that it it's uh it it it forced schools to give phone numbers of all their students to military recruiters who could just cold call them. Um and
19:50then there were programs that would get they they would sign up to before they even left high school, which would say you you have to come and join the military now. And then there was the green card soldiers. So they offered green cards to soldiers to say, "Look, if you if you serve, you can you can become a citizen or a green card and then later on a citizen." And not many people know this, but the first soldier to die in Iraq, American soldier, wasn't actually American. He was Guatemalan. He was uh he he he was a street kid um who had who had uh been a his parents had been a victim of the civil war in
20:23Guatemala, which had been instigated by the US. Uh saw a genocide of 200,000 people. Uh and he was a street kid and he made the the journey to the United States um on trains, managed to get in, and didn't even want to join the military, but really wanted to uh become an architect and uh and get citizenship and a green card.
20:45So he joined up, and he was the first soldier to die in Iraq uh in in March 2003. So it is a it is a parable for for so much about American society that that this this story. And that's because as I say, uh the military is a is a lens and a window into uh any society, but particularly America because America is what's called a stratocracy, I think. It's a It's rule It's government by the military. The mili You know, Eisenhower was warning in the '50s about the military-industrial complex. And it's got so much worse since then.
21:19Um and now uh so much of foreign policy is just guided by what they call the blob, the national security establishment, but also arms companies and all the all the private interests that fund politicians and need war for the permanent war economy, which is what the US has. If the US stopped going to war all the time and bombing the out of the rest of the world, the economy might collapse. So much of the economy rests on that. Um a permanent war economy is a real thing, and that's what the Americans have. And it's hard to say cuz you can't see the pressure points and and who's putting where the influence, but the proof's in
21:53the pudding. If you just look at American foreign policy, they're just It's It obviously it's even wilder under Trump than it was previously, but you know, it it's it's every day there's a new threat against the different country. So, um a lot of And And with Trump, the interesting thing is, you know, he's The reason this isn't talked about in the context of Trump is because the Democrats and the so what so-called moderate Republicans like to think of like to present Trump as an outlier, right? That he's like we've never seen this before and But many of the things he's doing uh have their root in the war on terror.
22:28Particularly the the what what was called during the the Bush administration, the imperial presidency, which was Chinese uh uh uh complete concentration of power in the executive branch. And then ex- uh which allowed them to to just take so many actions outside of the uh uh the the checks and balances of uh in Washington.
22:50And then you had extraordinary rendition, all that kind of stuff. And Trump's just taking advantage of that.
22:54You know, he's saying, "Well, we were They were lawless then, so he's lawless now." But he's just more obvious about it. That's That's only difference, you know? But he And he said that before. He says He said that He just says what they're doing, you know? When they went and kidnapped Maduro in January, um he goes What did he say? He said, "We're going in to get the oil. I'm going to send our oil companies in." You know, why did we go into Iraq? Same same thing.
23:17But, Bush and Blair felt the need to nice it up and say, "Well, it's all about democracy and human rights." It was So, with Trump, the why he's hated so much is he's just more honest about how American power works. Uh and he is more uh uh cavalier. Um but, I don't I don't think that he is a He's not this great discontinuity with how American power has been exercised for for over a century, you know? That's That's a great point, Matt. Uh that's a great point that Trump is not an outlier. Trump is a continuation of what they've all been doing since the at least since the war on terror began, if not before. And people warned against
23:58that, giving all these kind of powers, these imperial powers, to people like Bush, Cheney, and Barack Obama, who famously repealed the habeas corpus, uh famously uh uh then went on to prosecute journalists uh using the Espionage Act.
24:16More journalists prosecuted by Barack Obama under the Espionage Act than all the presidents combined before him. And so, but they all want to make you think it's just Donald Trump. It's just Donald Trump. But, it is not just Donald Trump.
24:29He is just like the rest of them, except as you say, he's more cavalier about it.
24:33He's actually In a sense, he's more honest about it, right? Yes. So, that's kind of almost refreshing in a way. Um but, I also want to draw your attention to So, you talk about how, you know, this uh manifested, this kind of recruiting and the relax and relaxing of the moral waivers and all that stuff, ended up in Abu Ghraib, right? But, that's uh So, that's the torture that was happening at the bottom, but I just want to remind everybody that it was happening at the tippy top, right? Because uh George Bush and Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, they ordered a torture program that was worldwide. So, it wasn't just soldiers
25:14that they were be recruiting that that's the problem. The problem is at the very top. And in fact, uh when John Kiriakou exposed uh the the torture that was uh a policy. It was a policy of torture. Uh a worldwide extraordinary rendition, torture, the things we did to people at Abu Ghraib. We'd send people to other countries to have them tortured. And it was official policy of the United States. And then, when Barack Obama, everybody's uh golden boy, became president, he didn't prosecute any of those torturers. In fact, the CIA destroyed all the videotapes of the evidence of their torturing. So, that's
25:53coming from the very top. And then, Barack Obama, instead of prosecuting them, which he's constitutionally required to do, he said he's not going to prosecute anybody who ordered the torture or took part in the torture because Barack Obama said all those crimes happened in the past, and he was looking towards the future. So, it's it's not just uh uh you know, soldiers at the It's the entire system. And it's not just Trump.
26:19It's the It's every president. And so, I just I think that's an important point to make.
26:25>> It is. And it's also bipartisan, like you say. And that is a very important point to make because when the whole illusion of democracy, and it's not just in the United States, by the way, it's in the UK as well, is is is generated by this idea that we have this adversarial uh political class, you know, like the Republicans and Democrats are so different, and they duke it out based on principled lines. They're the same party. They're the same party, especially on foreign policy. Especially on foreign policy. They do They They They serve the same interests, which is why you'd never get someone like Obama
26:58prosecuting the the the perpetrators of torture because they serve the CIA, they serve the deep state, they serve the blob, whatever you want to call it, the permanent government in Washington. And that's one of the propaganda techniques, which is very powerful, actually. But the other one is what you're talking about, like the brass and the the the actual politicians and the secretaries who are responsible, they palm it off on these lower downs because that also gives the impression that that it's what it's what's sometimes called bad apples theory, right? Which is like a very clever way of the political class and
27:34the actual criminals basically palming off all the criminal activity to the grunts on the on the ground. They say, "Well, these these are all just bad apples. They're nothing to do with us.
27:45Abu Ghraib was just bad people." It was the same in Vietnam, by the way, with My Lai, you know, My Lai was was the commanders were allowing this to happen regularly. My Lai wasn't was not a singular event. It was happening that according to that book by Nick Turse, which is Killing Everything That Moves, there was it was regular My Lai style massacres in Vietnam, but they palmed it off and said that these are bad apples when the policy was coming from the top.
28:10And that's why you never see anyone prosecuted. You never Look at in Britain and America, which have been the most violent countries since the since the end of the Second World War, smashed up so many places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia.
28:26Not one person serving in any of those administrations that carried out those crimes, which out massively outweigh anything any other country has done, has ever ever been in a court of law for it, which is mad. But what that that shows is that they have complete impunity to do what they want. And if ever there is a break in that impunity, it's only for the people on the ground. It's the chain of it never goes up the chain of command. No one I mean and and you mentioned about the CIA torture program.
28:52Yeah, that was a horrendous um uh program but again operated operated completely off the books. No one would have known about it without John Kiriakou. And that's how they want it, you know, that's the other part of this is the secrecy. And this is why it takes investigative journalism or whistleblowers to get the truth out and they persecute both of those categories like you said uh because they don't want the truth to come out. The imperial presidency thing is quite interesting under when you come to Trump as well because he's taken full advantage of that. Like sometimes I I forget that America even has a
29:23legislative branch. When you're looking at what he's doing, he's just like we're going to go and kidnap the president of Venezuela, we'll go and attack Iran.
29:30There's never a vote there's not been any vote in Congress. It's not even thought about. It's not even thought Some people don't even think it's like worthy of discussion. So and that is a product of the same thing.
29:40You know, you had he's taking advantage of the the militarized paranoid securitized political system that was that was born in in the war on terror counterterrorism emergency. And this is actually the what John Kiriakou writes about in the afterward. He His essay is about how the war on terror led to Trump. Um and and and again this is not talked about ever because it points the fingers at points the finger at the Democrats and the Republicans equally and they don't like that. They like us all to think, well, Trump is just this complete outlier that we've got nothing to do with or we don't understand it and
30:16he he he he's he's messing up the system and blah blah blah blah but he he's a product of what of what they created and he's the bastard child of the war on terror really.
30:26So I just found it interesting that you know, you make a case which is all true about the relaxing of standards, the bringing in people who are in you know, in the Crips and the Bloods and MS-13 inside the military which is all true and it's all horrible. But, you know, you point to Timothy McVeigh and Michael Page as precedents. Both of those incidents, they happened before on the edge of the war on terror recruitment surge. Um but I think there's another part of that story. So, you touched on it just now that they like to use these people as scapegoats, so it never So, it's not So, I just want to show you this quick
31:08video. It's a few minutes long about Timothy McVeigh because you know, you talk about the the the white supremacists and the Nazis and the gang members inside the military creating terror here back at home in the United States, but you really only pointed to January 6th, which we'll get to it right after this. I just want to show you this about Timothy McVeigh, which speaks to your previous point about scapegoating. Let's watch this, and I'll get your reaction.
31:38>> [music] [music] >> On the morning of April 19th, [music] 1995, a decorated Gulf War combat vet blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City using a truck bomb that he didn't build in a Ryder truck that he didn't rent with the help of a passenger who didn't exist. Having just gotten away with the largest act of terrorism on US soil to date, the Fort Bragg trained special forces sheep drip drop out blended in with the crowd by making his getaway in a car without a license plate and was immediately pulled over.
32:11The ATF was the supposed target of the attack, but luckily all of their agents were out of the office that morning.
32:16Later that day, the president boldly declared, We will find the people who did this.
32:21And when we do, justice will be swift, certain, and severe.
32:30Except for John Doe number two. John Doe number two. John Doe number two.
32:35Who, according to the FBI, never existed.
32:38In McVeigh's unprecedented 3 and 1/2 week trial, the prosecution didn't show the CCTV footage of him and John Doe number two parking the Ryder truck.
32:45Didn't explain why 24 separate witnesses mass hallucinated the existence of John Doe number two. Didn't explain why the government was testing truck bombs and the army was storing Ryder trucks at Camp Gruber right before the bombing.
32:55And didn't talk to the FBI informants who blew the whistle on the plot. But they did collaborate with the CIA and they did convict McVeigh as the lone wolf bomber and Terry Nichols as his bomb constructing accomplice.
33:04Still, a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists, including 300 bombing victims, insist on talking about facts and evidence and refuse to simply believe what they've been told a million times by people in tailored suits with well-coiffed hair.
33:14They quote the US Army Brigadier General and the FBI crime lab whistleblower and the inventor of the neutron bomb who point out the physical impossibility that the Ryder truck bomb did the damage to the building, but that doesn't matter because if there were other bombs in the building that day, we would have heard about them. The second explosive was found and diffused. I think you said another bomb. The Justice Department is reporting that a second explosive device has been found. They then found a third device, which was also larger than the first. And I see another bomb truck going, so apparently they're going to
33:43try to get out that third bomb.
33:45The FBI claims to have lost the footage showing McVeigh and John Doe number two parking the truck in front of the Murrah building that morning, but that's understandable because the bureau has a lot of important evidence to store.
33:54Terry Nichols insists the FBI was involved in the plot, but thankfully a judge has saved us the trouble of listening to him by preventing lawyers from deposing him.
34:01There was a bomb squad truck parked across the street two hours before the blast, but that just shows the authorities were prepared for anything.
34:07And Other documents obtained by 20/20 show that someone called the executive secretary's office at the Justice Department in Washington and said the Murrah building had been bombed. But this was 24 minutes before the blast.
34:21But that just shows the public was unusually vigilant that morning.
34:25Also, Apparently, before the bombing, Governor Frank Keating's brother, Mark, had been working on a novel about a terrorist bombing in Oklahoma City.
34:33Stranger still, one of the characters in the novel was named Thomas McVeigh. But that's probably just a coincidence.
34:40McVeigh wrote a letter to his sister where he admitted to being a secret special forces operative and he complained to friends of the pain in his ass from an army implanted microchip, but that's crazy because if he didn't actually leave the army in 1991, there would be proof of that.
34:55This man never existed and if you say otherwise, you're a crazy government hating nut job who deserves to be locked in a cage for the rest of your life.
35:02Likewise, him, her, them, her, and him.
35:06And him and him.
35:08McVeigh was not executed on May 16th, 2001 as scheduled because the FBI had failed to turn over thousands of pages of evidence to McVeigh's defense attorneys. [music] But the execution went ahead on June 11th.
35:21In a highly unusual and secret agreement, no autopsy was performed. One witness said he was still breathing and the prison officials admitted his hearse was a decoy. Then, the case was officially closed.
35:31This is the story of OKC as told you by the same truth tellers behind Perhaps a profoundly lonely man who craved attention but found consolation in doing good. And and the helicopter we were traveling in was forced down after being hit by an RPG. And we're we're with the rebels.
35:48And he said, "Oh, you're with the rebels?" And they started beating him.
35:50"Oh, you're with the rebels? Don't you support Bashar?" And if you question any part of this story, you were a paranoid wingnut birther truther tinther prepper conspiracy loon who should feel guilty for having been born. If you love baseball, fluffy kittens, hot dogs, Barbie, Star Wars, and freedom, you will never ever bring up any of these points ever again.
36:08Ever.
36:10This message has been brought to you by the [music] friends of the FBI, ATF, DOJ, CIA, SPLC, MSM, and the US Army.
36:16So, the point I'm I guess I'm trying to make here is that these are all rigs, including January 6th, which we'll get to in a second, from the very top.
36:27And that these you know, these for lack of a better term Timothy McVeigh was probably MK Ultra and he had certainly this was planned it seems and planned by the FBI, the ATF, the government at the very top.
36:41And so um what do you make of what you just saw?
36:46I mean I don't know it I didn't know any of that stuff. So yeah, it looks highly suspicious.
36:53But I mean with this form of this you know, like I don't know if you've looked into the case of Sirhan Sirhan the Yes, of course. Like I like there's there was a very good documentary went into that that he he was likely hypnotized number one.
37:09Um and number two there was a second shooter. So again all the yeah but the government will not will use violence and terrorism for its own benefit.
37:25And yeah, maybe involved but again I don't know on this specific case but it's yeah, it's 100% and they don't that's partly why they don't care about these people going around because they're useful if they need them >> Exactly. Exactly. It's almost like it's a plan. And I just want to bring your attention. So you say on the on the back of the book it says it's an explosive investigation into how America's longest wars created a threat from within by flooding the US military with extremist now fueling Maga, domestic terror and global far right.
38:03But the only real domestic terrorist since the war on terror be since Timothy McVeigh that you point to is is January 6th. Now January 6th looks like the exact replay of the Timothy McVeigh saga and I just want to point to you Um, it they were quest so there were hundreds if not thousands of FBI and police informants or undercover operators inside the January 6th riot, right? And they were they have been it's been pretty clear to this show that that whole riot was a psyop that it was set up by the FBI and the power and the government and here is representative Clay. He's interviewing the FBI director and trying to ask him
38:53questions about if this was actually instigated by the FBI. Let's listen to a little bit of that.
38:59Does it does the FBI have confidential human sources?
39:04Uh Did the FBI have confidential human sources embedded within the January 6th protesters?
39:15And on January 6th of 2021?
39:19Well, Congressman, as I'm sure you can appreciate, I have to be very careful about what I can say about when we are >> that's cuz that's what you told us 2 years ago.
39:27>> May I finish?
39:29Uh about when we do and do not and where we have and have not used confidential human sources.
39:34Uh but to the extent that there's a suggestion for example that the FBI's confidential human sources or FBI employees in some way instigated or orchestrated January 6th, that's categorically false. Did you have confidential human sources dressed as Trump supporters inside the capital on January the 6th prior to the doors being open?
39:54Again, I have to be very careful about >> be a no. Can you not tell the American people no? We did not have confidential human sources dressed as Trump supporters positioned inside the capital Gentleman's time has expired.
40:07>> not read anything into my uh Yeah, okay.
40:09So So there's that and here is Clay Higgins again. He did an investigation.
40:15He's former uh former uh a law enforcement officer and he did a deep dive into actually what happened on January 6th and here's what he concluded. We're we're gradually, professionally rolling that evidence out.
40:29He sort of gets to the question right there in larger terms. You just said that elements within the federal government, I assume law enforcement, intel, military and I'm using your words lured Americans to Washington into what you call the trap. Yes, sir.
40:41So, that would I mean that's a shocking and I assume that's a that's a sober conclusion based on the evidence. That's what you're saying. That's that would be my sober assessment as an investigator and I'm you know I'm quite a I love my country and and I'm I've always been a staunch defender of the thin blue line and I I would proudly count the FBI amongst that number.
40:58They're like brothers to me. So, to find that level of of conspiratorial corruption at the highest levels of the FBI has been very troubling to me as a man, as a cop. And and yet you know you follow the evidence wherever it leads and this is what investigators do. So, uh when I asked Christopher Wray that that question for instance and I already knew the answer. I had reviewed the compelling evidence that the that FBI had assets, human assets, dressed as Trump supporters inside the Capitol prior to the doors being opened and the masses allowed in. Uh so, now I I knew that the FBI was deeply involved. I'd seen evidence even at that
41:35time with uh that the FBI had embedded themselves into various groups online across the country of Americans who were essentially uh voicing their their concerns and airing their grievances with each other about COVID oppression. Those Americans were targeted by the FBI who were almost universally Republicans and and uh largely Trump supporters, but the FBI worked undercover to infiltrate those conversations and become a significant part of those individual Americans uh communications. And when you dig into the evidence that we've we've had revealed through through some criminal cases that I've I've followed
42:09and worked with in families of J6 uh political detainees and Americans that been persecuted for their involvement in the capital that day. And some of that evidence is shockingly reveals that the the FBI agents that were operating undercover within the online groups across the country were were the first ones to plant the seeds of of suggestions of of a more radical occupation of the capital. And and it was sort of testing the waters of who amongst that group would would begin acknowledging that you know, maybe maybe we should do that. Maybe we should plan for an occupation like that. But if you
42:45look at the the origins of those conversations, they they were started by the the FBI undercover guy that was operating inside the group. And then months later, on January 4th, 5th, and 6th, many of those Americans met for the first time in person when they gathered for the massive rally where American patriots assembled to object to to everything that had happened during 2020, the COVID oppression, and the the stunning results of what we believe was a compromised election cycle in November 2020. So, Americans gathered at their own capital to to appropriately air grievances and protest at their capital. But embedded
43:19amongst their number was an FBI asset that had been working from within their group online for many months. So, this was the level of of manipulative effort that the FBI invested into American citizenry and our our assembly online to to exercise our rights under the First Amendment to talk to each other about whatever we want to talk about, including the the the insidious oppressions of COVID that we were suffering across the country. So, and our concerns about where the election was going, the whole mail-in ballot thing. We could see the stage was being set for a compromised election cycle possibly.
43:52And to our horror, that's what happened.
43:54So, FBI had fingerprints on this thing from from many months prior to J456.
44:02I want to go back to something you said in the first So, so I just want to show you one more quick this this is Ray Epps who we now come to understand is most likely an FBI asset because he was never prosecuted for doing something like this. Tomorrow, we need to GO INTO THE CAPITAL.
44:20INTO THE CAPITAL.
44:23>> [screaming] >> SO, THERE IS THE MAGA supporters surrounding an FBI plant who's trying to incite them to go into the capital and they're saying, "What? No, we're not doing that." And then they start chanting, "This guy's a fed. This guy's a fed."
44:40And so, the reason I bring this up is because the only terrorism you can point to that's coming from the MAGA supporters or these people from the military inside the United States post-9/11.
44:53Well, the one pre-9/11 was Timothy McVeigh. Post is January 6th. And so, what is happening in my eyes is that this is coming from the top just as you explained earlier, they're using scapegoats like MAGA supporters to carry out what they want to have done. They did the same thing in Brazil with Bolsonaro. They had people storm the capital so then they could make it illegal for Bolsonaro to ever run for president again and that was the goal of the January 6th Fed FBI led insurgency into the capital and was to do the exact thing to try to make it illegal for Donald Trump to run for president. So, it What this does, I
45:36think what it's the danger of what's happening in your book is that it's turning people against their neighbor.
45:43It's turning people to be suspicious of their neighbor and a political movement called MAGA instead of where it belongs, which is at the very top of government and the people who actually pull the strings. And so, what what would you What would you say to that?
45:58Yeah, well, that's a fair criticism, but the the book actually focuses on on the the corporates who are the people that allowed this to happen.
46:08And as you say, like I I won't comment I don't know enough about the cases that you've outlined, so I wouldn't want to comment, but if you're willing to if you've got no compunction with allowing these people to go and serve in the military and go out to a country like Iraq and Afghanistan and take do whatever they want effectively, then I won't you've not got a moral code that's going to stop you using them when they're back in the United States for doing undercover operations that you want. I don't think there's ever and there is precedent for it. So, that is 100% and we had a whole look I know more about this
46:45this element of the state and the deep state in the UK and we had a whole scandal which broke here which people should look at called the Spy Cops scandal where the MI5 and the UK police infiltrated thousands of different political groups political groups and did what what you're talking about.
47:04And it could there's an inquiry actually ongoing now because it was exposed because one of the undercovers left their phone on and the person that they were were pretending to be an activist with listened into this police conversation, but anyway, it sparked this huge thing and revealed and they and similar thing they were there were there were cases of them initiating bombing attacks. Like they it was coming from these spy British spy police plants.
47:36So, yeah, of course they'll do they'll they'll I wouldn't put it past them, but I don't have evidence of And the other thing is look, there was one case which I found out from the Freedom of Information Act. I got a case of a a white supremacy soldier.
47:50Yeah, and I got the report back from CID which is the investigative command.
47:54And it's so it's this like two-page document and it says the soldier was handing um white supremacist bomb-making sorry, bomb-making materials or bomb-making leaflets or guides to a leader of a white supremacist group. And then you read down a bit and it's like we've decided to take no action.
48:15Um Uh and then I was told that he was then sent to Iraq. So, this is someone who was literally giving a military munition that was it was a military munitions manual to a white leader while he was serving in the US military. He was given no Uh uh he was he was investigated and there was there was no further investigation done and he was sent off to a war zone. So, this is this is this is a sign that the people that tell us they're interested in national security, that is not their priority.
48:44That is not their priority. Their priority is managing the society in the interest of a certain Uh uh uh occluded interest and also promoting big business around the world. And they on top of that, the propaganda we get is that it's all to do with national security. But that I'll just give you one more other example in the UK side.
49:05You the Manchester bombing, I don't know if you remember this. There was a bombing um some years ago at Ariana Grande concert in Manchester.
49:14Yes.
49:15The many little school girls died.
49:18Now, that guy who did that uh Libyan British guy, he was he was he was a lot he was saved by the Royal Navy when he was fighting with Islamic radical groups in Libya against Gaddafi.
49:32He was saved by the Royal Navy, brought back to the UK and then kept kept going in and out of the UK to fight in Libya.
49:39Uh and we were allowing him to do that.
49:41I mean just and caught absolute carnage.
49:44So, MI5 and the British authorities were large part responsible, but in the inquiry into the Manchester bombing, all the evidence MI5 had to give was done behind closed doors. So we never They never had to explain themselves and that's why people need to understand about these secret institutions, right? FBI included, CIA. They're not secret to protect us.
50:05They're secret to protect them from us because they are political players and they don't want us to know how they are managing and and organizing our society. And of course yeah, false flags, um uh uh yeah, violent attacks that that none of it's past them. I would say though just to finish though that in the in the preface I I talk about some of the more recent cases and there have been cases where these white supremacists active duty of actually there's a four four or five that I go through in the book where the FBI has busted them before they've done um uh carried out terrorist attacks. There was
50:48there's a there was a bunch of there was one that was wanted to blow up hundreds [clears throat] of people in Baltimore.
50:53So there there are there there are some but the point is if it's if it's politically useful to use these people at certain points, they will.
51:02Yeah, they 100% will.
51:04And this is a this is a the way that they protect themselves is as I say one is secrecy and one is to anyone who tries to investigate it or talk about it is is is reduced as a conspiracy theorist. Which is a very powerful act. So people don't even want to touch this stuff.
51:22Correct. So So I I I I think we're 90% on the same page on this. I just want to caution everybody that like when I read this, right? Where it says that how the US military with extremist now fueling Maga and domestic terror, what's really doing that is the establishment, right? And they're using So what So the danger is that it'll turn people against uphold So I don't know if you saw all the people that were at January 6th. There were thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of people with legitimate grievances then they were seeking redress from their government. So to smear an entire movement like that
52:03because of the FBI's false flag operation that was definitely carried out that day lends to division in the United States so we fight against each other instead of coming together to fight against the who are actually doing this. So I think that's the that would be the focus and that's the danger of stuff when I read something like that. It's the try to get the half the country to blame the other half of the country as terrorists as Nazis as white supremacists when the overwhelming majority of this Maga group is not that. And so that's the point I'm trying to make and trying to drive home.
52:39>> I I agree with you and first point is I didn't write that so But it is on your it is on the back of your book. Yeah I can't I can't claim that it's nothing to do with me but no but I I I hear that and and the point is like uh Maga uh well they've been sold out again by Trump.
52:58>> Correct. But but but the reason they elected him was because they thought he was against this uh this uh establishment in Washington. Yes. They believed all the rhetoric you know.
53:10Correct. So I do I do I do agree with you that the point is not to uh then uh trage like attack them all and say you're responsible for XYZ. It's it's about how you can persuade them that that Trump is part of the system and they were sold a lie.
53:27>> Yes. Uh the good point and and and actually your instincts are correct. There is a establishment that wants to exploit and dominate you. Um but Trump is not the guy to to to stop that. Um >> 100% correct. You got it.
53:45But but I think that I I think the book is actually more because it's not make it's not a theoretical book in that sense, right? It's just So I all the stuff that you mentioned it it's If you read the book, you it doesn't go into that that it go it's more just about like charting how these how how how these how these people got in >> Yeah, no, it's It's a great but it's a it's a great investigation and I point 100% I and I agree with you.
54:12>> understand I do understand what you're saying. I do understand what you're saying and it's important that that the different the the context is given because the other thing is that people that if you if you tell someone a story and you don't include relevant context, they're not going to understand that story or they can be very easily persuaded to take the position of of the dominant discourse or whatever. So it is true. But and also but that's kind of why I wrote so clearly how this was a bipartisan thing as well because that's that it would have done a lot better it would sell a lot better if I'd made it all
54:46about Bush, right? Right.
54:48>> And said that he was this uniquely evil guy that But I the book talks about Obama at length and how he carried it on because it's effectively a it's a permanent government and Obama was a different face but the same the same institutions, the same interests were being served. So but I think that uh I don't know what this I mean, you'll know more about what the situation with MAGA is now because I don't understand how there isn't real awareness of what Trump is really is, especially with Well, I think there I think there is now. We just had Thomas Massie on who's a congressman running against who was a big cheerleader for
55:29MAGA who's now running against Donald Trump and being demonized by Donald Trump because Donald Trump betrayed MAGA. And I you know, travel the country all the time doing comedy shows and I meet at least 100 people at each show afterwards and half of them are former maga members who feel betrayed by Donald Trump. So, I just want to make sure that people don't try to give a blanket that it's the maga movement. It's not the maga movement. It's a it's the it's the people it's the powerful people using certain elements inside the maga movement. You know, you talk about how the FBI stopped terror attacks.
56:07The one of those attacks was the a kidnapping of the Michigan Governor Whitmer and then we find out that they that the people there was 13 people in a van going to kidnap her and then we find out that nine of the people inside that van were FBI or FBI plants. And so, that's and they claim "Oh, we look, we stopped this terrorist attack." And so, they set up a terror attack and then they stop it and they can claim victory.
56:33And so, that's just again we I just want to tell the entire story because what's happening in this country is divide and conquer and it's working like a charm and it's working like a charm all over the world. And so, I just and I'm not questioning your integrity or your reporting. It's a No, no, I I it's an important conversation to have and we see it here. I mean, I I don't know enough about the US side to be honest with you. I mean, I get I I see we don't hear what is going on within mega. I see what Trump's doing, obviously and I I I I can see that completely contradicts everything he said on the campaign trail
57:06and everything that he's styled his movement as being about, but I don't know and I see that certain big formerly mega people moving away from him like Tucker Carlson and >> Candace Owens, Marjorie Taylor Greene, people like Joe Rogan, Theo Von. The bigger question is the bigger question is can you ever does the American system allow for a president that was the president that Donald Trump presented himself as. No. The answer is no. That's what I mean. So, you either get Yeah, you get submerged into it. And either And if you don't get submerged, well, we never had We don't know. You get JFK'd.
57:46Well, you know, that it is interesting the JFK one because Oliver Stone says that JFK was the last uh US president who wasn't under the control of the intelligence services and the deep state. And And And he did famously say he wanted to scatter the CIA into a thousand pieces.
58:03>> Yeah. And I don't I don't know enough about the I haven't looked in depth at the assassination, but um it is that that that it's a we live in what are called managed democracies, right?
58:14That's like there is a whole area of the state uh where which people don't see. And then they get the froth on the top, which is parliament here or congress. You get all the people on TV. You get the journalists on CNN and stuff talking about this pantomime.
58:32But it's effectively a hyperreality, and the reality is actually happening underneath it all. And you're not ever allowed to see it. And you're not even allowed to know it exists. And that is the The fundamental thing is that we don't live in democracies. We don't. And the UK or we live in a uh a We live with a permanent government that that sets the You can have a political system, but within very tight confines, right? Where you can say certain things, and there's certain red lines that if you step over them, you'll get dealt with. Either through a massive smear campaign um or or or worse. In the case of JFK, I don't
59:09know what happened to him, but well, we know what happened to him, but I don't know We don't know who uh Well, you can speculate. But the point being that there's there's various ways.
59:18In fact, the system works in a way in a beautiful way that they don't have to uh often uh assassinate people. People People can get dealt with before that.
59:27We had it in in the UK with Jeremy Corbyn, right?
59:29>> Correct. Who who who was who was who was definitely an outlier and and was an anti-imperialist, the first Labour leader, and he was dealt with by the media and the political system. Like they just he was he was there was he was there was such an intense campaign of of at least anti-sem- so-called anti-semitism crisis. There was one point where a senior journalist was said on radio he wanted to reopen Auschwitz. Now, that whole campaign was based on him liking a mural on Facebook or something. It was it was literally that small, and it became such a thing. But that's one of their techniques. They can just destroy
60:06you in a in the in the public realm enough that you're you're unelectable.
60:10If that doesn't happen, then there's other mechanisms they can use. And this is the same around the world. This is what the US does. This is how the US This is the democracy that the US likes around the world. They like two parties that effectively are the same party, and then uh uh if you if you if you step outside of those limits, well, it's this what happens to you is is like Salvador Allende in Chile in 1973, uh Goulart in in Brazil in 1964, you know, it just many many many different people that that we have been either killed or or or deposed by the United States and allies because they step outside the confines of
60:52low-intensity democracy, which is what we have here. And I don't I don't even like the term low-intensity democracy because in fact we don't. We don't. It's not a democracy. It's an illusion. You go out to vote every 4 years or 5 years here, and you get the same And you're not allowed to vote for change.
61:10That's the whole point. That's what you're not allowed to vote to change because change is that there's vested interest, there's vested power, there's embedded power, there's embedded wealth that does not want that embedded power and wealth touched by the the pros on the outside.
61:25Um I think people are waking up to this.
61:26And this is what I'm saying about MAGA, right? The the instincts are correct. I think that some of the The The problem is if you have that reservoir that that feeling, but you're not given a You do become susceptible to uh demagogues who are not actually principled people. They're uh and they sell you false enemies. Like really, I think that the I mean, this is just my personal political take, but the whole focus on immigration and blah blah blah or globalism, the real people that we should be focused on is is the corporations. They run the whole game.
62:00100%.
62:01>> So So So really, they're the people that we should be focusing on the whole time.
62:04And our goal should be to to snatch back power from them because we don't have a democracy partly because of all these embedded national security intelligence agencies, but also guiding the political system, but also the the corporations. They They've got the lever of power. So, uh how can we have a democracy when the these private interests are basically buying our politicians, buying policies, and divvying up the state to themselves?
62:32It's It's It's impossible. So, But no, but Trump Well, let me just say that So, what's happening right now because Trump has proven to be a con man of the highest order and a betrayer of everything he ran on, including his base, the MAGA base, uh there's a lot There's a lot of people who consider themselves on the left who are now blaming people who voted for Donald Trump as if they had a choice. Now, if they had a They didn't have a choice.
62:59They had a choice between someone who was actively committing a genocide in front of our face and said they would continue committing that genocide, the same administration that crushed the railroad strike union, the same uh administration that started a proxy war with a nuclear power, or they had the choice of Donald Trump who said he was only going to do any of those things and he was going to end those wars. He lied about that, but we didn't have a choice.
63:22The choice was Bernie Sanders. At the same time, Jeremy Corbyn was rising in the UK, Bernie Sanders was rising here.
63:28And guess what they did? They didn't kill him, but they cheated him through two elections in a row. So, in 2016, they cheated him, and in 2020, they cheated him. And then in 2024, the Democrats didn't even bother having a primary. So, we didn't have anybody to choose from. And I That's exactly your point. I'm making the same point that you're not allowed to become the nominee for president unless you're willing to do the bidding of the deep state and the WEF globalists. And the trick is to keep our eyes off of them and put our eyes on our neighbor and pretend like it's our and think our neighbor is the problem.
64:05And that's the ultimate trickery that keeps us not being able to have a real revolution. But Matt But can I just say one thing before we go? I'm just genuinely interested because when you're talking to me, the first thing I'm thinking is, well, it's not wholly true what you're saying because they did have an inkling of who he was because he had a first term, Well, he did He was the only president in my lifetime who didn't start another war. So, So, Bill Clinton started two wars.
64:33George Bush started two wars. Barack Obama did Libya. He did Syria.
64:38And then we had Donald Trump, there was a pause. And so, he did have a track record to run on. So, that's why it And it was clear that the deep state was against him in his first term because they did Russia gate. And that Russia gate was served two points. It was to discredit Donald Trump and keep him tied up dealing with that and also to foment people's support for the war that they were planning with the Ukraine and the and Russia. So, there was some precedent.
65:04>> I'll just come back on that because if you remember when he was president, he moved the embassy to Jerusalem then while he was doing that.
65:16They shot they they they massacred all those people who were doing the great March of Return. They were just walking peacefully to the gates of the prison in Gaza. Plus he then he assassinated Soleimani Soleimani in Iraq when he was lured to Iraq from Iran the top general in Iran. He dropped the mother of all bombs in Afghanistan and celebrated it.
65:33Right.
65:34>> I'm not saying he and then I think drone attacks I'm all I'm saying is like And and this doesn't I'm not saying that they should then be attacked because of this because yes it's true that not some of them will still held out hope but the point is there was evidence there and the point is He uh uh uh I [clears throat] don't know man. I mean on the economic side look what he did on the who did he appoint as his treasury secretary Goldman Sachs.
66:01>> I agree with you there was no I think the conclusion is there was no choice because here we had the Biden administration doing the most horrific things starting nuclear wars with nuclear powers doing a genocide right in front of us and and and so we there wasn't a choice and they rigged it that way so there wasn't a choice. And so we had one guy saying he wasn't going to do it. We had another guy actively doing the thing we didn't want and so there wasn't really a choice and we know that now and I think Maga has woken up to that that there wasn't a real choice which is why so many people have
66:36abandoned him. But man I have to run I really appreciate it's a great book there's lots of great information you do a meticulous reporting it's an eye-opener for a lot of people as all your books are. Your books are fantastic and that's why we love having you on as a guest. Thanks for coming on pal I appreciate it.
66:53>> it thanks you thanks a lot. Come see me on tour in Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Atlanta, Raleigh, North Carolina, Spokane, Tacoma and Levittown, New York.
67:01Go to jimmydore.com for a link for tickets.
67:05>> [music]
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