0:04Jess, thank you for doing this. Thank you, Tucker. Um, one of my many theories, but the one I believe in most fervently is that the meritocracy as practiced in the United States is not a meritocracy. The the promise is, you know, the system is going to locate the smartest people in the 50 states, funnel them through a certain number of approved schools, and then into certain number of approved businesses or government, and we're going to get good governance and a good country as a result. Then in fact the opposite has happened. The system is designed to exclude rather than include exclude Christians, people with an independent cast of mind, creativity, you know an
0:40awakened spirit, all of them. Genius, all of them are excluded in favor of hyperaggressive, selfish, small-minded, cruel, compliant people. And that's how you wind up with a system where Ben Shapiro gets into Harvard. Like how could Ben Shapiro? I'm just like on Q points. It's not possible. Sorry for the long preamble, but there's a reason and I want viewers to understand why I was so anxious to do this interview. You live on a farm in South Dakota. Um, you are a potter and a welder and I think you're one of the best artists I've met personally. I think you have a kind of genius to what you do and an aesthetic sense that's lacking in our leadership. And I don't think a government
1:25populated by people who cared about beauty would blow up girl schools or allow its population to die of drug OD. So I think it really really matters. The love of beauty really matters and um and you have it. So anyway, that's why I'm doing this interview and uh there's a bigger reason and I hope a lot of people watch it. Tell us who you are, where you're from, how you live. My name is Jess Sullivson. I'm a three-dimensional artist. I do not while I primarily work in ceramics um all three-dimensional art I can work with any medium and create beauty with it. It's and that really is the goal of what I try to do to make beautiful things out of materials that no
2:12one would ever think of. It's it's why I love ceramics. I can create beautiful, longlasting, enduring pieces of functional art that people can appreciate from just nothing more than raw elements off the periodic table. And it requires absolutely zero input or assistance from any other human on this planet. It is truly my own skills, my own mind, and my own abilities put down for eternity. Ceramics are what marks every every civilization is marked by its ceramics. And when you see what modern art puts out and just the horrendous, disgusting lack of aesthetics, lack of skill, lack of thought in modern art, it has disgusted me since high school art classes.
3:13I got in trouble for calling [ __ ] on modern art that they were like, "This is in the Guggenheim."
3:20I was like, "Why?" Because that's [ __ ] horrendous. Like, I wouldn't put that in my toilet. Like, you think that this dude is skilled? Like, people who just drape plastic over [ __ ] or duct tape a banana to a wall? Like, there's no possible way if you're being intellectually honest with me that you have any appreciation for this [ __ ] And so before I I want to understand what the purpose of it is, I mean clearly this it didn't arise organically. This the movement which began with Dada 100 years ago and then flowered into all kinds of different movements but basically modern and postmodern art. I've heard it was a CIA op like literally like with
4:06um Jackson Pollock who just slapped paint on a on a canvas and it was just trash and like there's no thought or interesting things beyond it. I've heard that the CIA started just paying [ __ ] amounts of money for his paintings just to [ __ ] with Russia because they were like we'll do this and we'll make this the art. And like when you look at Russian art and Russian classical architecture, which is like how our architecture used to be, right? Yes. Like beauty, symmetry, skill, like they wanted to confuse them. And for what reason? And I mean, that's their admitted goal. And then you wonder like, is that even their admitted goal? Were they just trying to
4:50destroy our society? Because that was the actual end effect, right? It was the end effect. So, I want to put um two images on the screen to contrast um what I think art is and has always been and certainly ought to be with what art has become and has a totally different purpose. Um the first would be present- day understanding of what beauty is, which is in fact an attack on beauty. And this is the presidential library of Barack Obama, which I think I have read cost approaching a billion dollars to construct. Um it's in Chicago. Here it is. for putting it on the screen now. So, what do you make of that? Is that beautiful? The the eye of Mordor? No,
5:33it is it is the absolute contrary opposition to aesthetics and beauty. There's no symmetry to that. Symmetry is the basis of beauty. Yes. That's that's what your eye immediately is drawn to. You don't have to be told what's beautiful. That's right. You don't have [clears throat] to be told when a woman is beautiful. Like, and they teach you that in early art school, but then somehow it gets lost in the upper levels, you know, draw a line down the middle. Perspective, symmetry, balance, aesthetics. So, symmetry is balance, right? It's so the human body is draw a line.
6:13Yeah. And you you can feel it through if you know just by touch your from your pallet to your navl to your toes you are symmetrical you two sides have joined even sides have joined mirror images have joined and there's a and that is true in nature it's true in plants it's true in other animals and so this is an organic fact symmetry is beauty the Fibonacci spiral yes the golden ratio the golden means sacred geometry the the whole A everything was built and created before you know what the industrial revolution and the degradation of our own culture. Yes. And so if something is asymmetrical by definition it cannot be beautiful or is an assault. It's an assault on the senses.
7:03Yeah. Right. So you look at that building and you have to ask what's the purpose of it? And when you spend $800 million to build something it's not a haphazard project. It's there's a design to it, right? Literally design, but also a conceptual design. Like, what are you trying to do with this building? I mean, that amount of money, it's got to be money laundering, right? Cost $2 million to build. There's no way. Like, you were just slapping together [ __ ] You didn't cut [ __ ] You didn't measure anything. You were just like, "Hey, look at that piece of metal I found in the scrap pile. Weld that one to this one." You know, is there even windows in the thing? Right? Like,
7:36there's no way it could be billions of dollars. It's just not It's just not possible. And yet the number of credentialed members of our ruling class who will gaze upon that building and you know give lectures about how it's its beauty and it ch you know it challenges us to excuse me understand this or that or they'll justify it as art when every person looking at it knows that it's grotesque.
8:02It's offensive. So what's the purpose of that? [sighs] It's to hurt us, isn't it? It is to degrade our society to destroy our families. Yes. To dro to destroy your ideas of beauty, to take it out of your life. We need beauty in our lives. And when we don't have that, and when your surroundings are so degraded, it lowers your ability to think and enjoy and find your own happiness. Yes. in your in your life. Yes, we are all drawn to beauty. Look at the classical art and the Greek sculptures of the ideal human form. We should be worshiping those things, not having dicks on chicks, right? Which itself is an assault on not just the natural order but aesthetics.
9:01What in this society today isn't an assault on humanity? Yes. It's it's become so blatant and obvious that they hate us and they want to destroy our lives and make us miserable and beat us down and shove horribly ugly, disgusting music and architecture. There there is nothing mainstream in this world that has any beauty in it. It is disgusting. Even the thoughts and policies of this government are disgusting. The music that they put out, which is also purposely to degrade our society. There has been nothing created mainstream in this world since I was born that should be taken in by human senses. It is I'm disgusted by it all. I've been disgusted by it
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10:59So I think what sets you apart is that you take it seriously because you understand its importance.
11:03I'm I'm with you 100%. These are not boutique concerns. These are not like some eccentric fixation that you have. This is at the heart of what it means to be human and to continue your civilization and build one worth having. So I want to contrast the Obama presidential library which is a pretty easy shot by the way. I almost feel bad putting that up there. I mean cuz as you said ugliness, intentional ugliness, asymmetrical design, assaults on us are everywhere. I mean, they're from the packaging and the products we buy at the supermarket to the design of fast food restaurants and big box stores, you know, it's it's all around. It's omnipresent. But this is
11:45just a really obvious example. I want to contrast that with a video that I saw. I want to play a 15 or 20 seconds of it of art that you were creating which we have been trained to dismiss as not art as utilitarian as as welding. This is video this is this was my first experience of your work and the first time I heard your name someone sent me this video and someone whose aesthetic sense I admire and trust and said this is this is unbelievable. This is you well tell us what this is. It's you building a wood stove out of what? out of excavator buckets. And not only is that a way to repurpose something that has already had a utilitarian life, but to give it a new purpose
12:35and create something that is not only beautiful but functional. Yeah. Useful and does a better job at what it does than anything else you can buy today. That's really and it's permanence.
12:52It's permanence. It's not just, you know, use this for a couple years and throw it away. What I like about it is that these are generational. These are pieces of functional art that could heat your home for generations. It's a Roman aqueduct. It's the Acropolis. It's still there. how that's there is no greater civilization than the Roman Republic and the things they built and the architecture and our republic is is framed on theirs. Yes. Like our society was thought up to be the best of what the Romans had to offer. Then with a bill of rights added to it, it was a a possible shot at the golden age. Yes. And it's been perverted and destroyed and degraded and taken advantage of.
13:48It sure has. Um, so without further ado, here is you creating art from an excavator bucket.
13:56Watch. This one's 1,500 lb. Not every bucket can be a stove. I've built them up to 60 in. The last one I built before this one was like almost it was over 6,000 lb when it was done. The color on this, this is only from [ __ ] what, eight hours, 10 hours of firing on it. The color is gonna soak all the way up and through this thing. After you've been using this thing for about a month straight, the color soaks all the way through it. The whole thing will get patinaed and that's what [ __ ] seals it. You can't put anything on the outside of it. Like what I I did two loads of wood and it they hit five 600° on this thing. And of course, this flat spot up top is for cooking,
14:38right? You build these out. So that's a cooking plate that hit 400° while I was firing it just on that little thing. You fry yourself some [ __ ] bacon. So, um, you know, I guess you either find that beautiful or you don't. I I I don't send videos to people. I don't watch videos. I don't care for video. I sent that to many people. I showed my wife that, probably the only video I've ever showed my wife. Um, and she agreed that it was beautiful and that it also, as you said, this is this is an object that has use that that warms the home. And anyone, of course, there's an assault on wood stoves because a wood stove is inherently beautiful. Uh, so now they're banned.
15:15But, um, anyone who lives with a wood stove can tell you there's no more uplifting way, joyful way to heat your home than a wood stove. But, um, we have nothing in this world without fire.
15:26Fire is the basis of human ingenuity. It is the first tool we created. It cooks our food.
15:35It warms our homes. Human civilization doesn't exist without fire. It creates energy. There you go. Yeah. Steam powered generators. Exactly. Which is where we get our electricity uh overwhelmingly even now. So um so give us some background on you. Where do you So you live in Soho in New York in [clears throat] over your gallery. Tell us where you're from. I live on a my family farm in South Dakota about 20 m east of Sou Falls, not far enough from civilization. And there's a thriving conceptual art community there. Yeah. No, South Dakota does not like me. Why?
16:21because they are mainstream. Yeah, it is 10 years behind the rest of the world. They're insecure like a lot of rural places and they seek mainstream acceptance and so they fall for the dumbest lies. Sou Falls wants to be all of the other biggest shitty cities and is like addicted to bringing in the shittiest ideas from every other shitty city. Why don't we have African homeless here? Where's our drug problem? We need that. They are super concerned about it.
16:52They feel left out. There's not enough stabbings and shootings and drug addictions. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm very, as someone who lives in a rural area, I'm very familiar with the mindset. Um, tell me about the farm. It's a family farm. Yes. My family came from Sweden through Ellis Island, got an ax and a wagon, and came directly to where I now live in 1876. Really? Same piece of ground. Same piece of ground. My studio is what my studio is now is the first homestead house that they built in 1891. Amazing. Yeah. Um, and your family's been there continuously the whole time? Yes. Yes.
17:36Always. Always generations living there. Never just one, never just two, usually three. I grew up with my grandfather on the farm and my uncle also living there as well. And you still have three generations there now. Yes, we do. Yeah. On the same farm. On the same farm. I live 150 yards from my parents. Yeah. Who? Who? I get to see my dad every day. We work together. Who built your house? I built my house. Like physically built it? Physically built it? Yes. Yep. What kind of farm is it? Primarily agriculture. Um, it's crossed many different things over the century and a half.
18:19Um, I'm trying to bring it back to incorporate grass-fed natural livestock. I want to take it back to self-sufficient. I had I had to interview my grandfather when I was in middle school to talk about the Great Depression. And I was like, you know, what was the Great Depression like? like, "How did your life change?" And he was like, "What the [ __ ] you talking about?" He's like, "We didn't even know there was a depression." Like, it was the same [ __ ] It was the same thing from the day before and it was the same thing for the 10 years after. Like, what do you mean? There was what great depression. [laughter] Like, we were we were dirt poor. We were self-sufficient.
19:03And it was my grandfather who said to me, "If you want nice things, you better learn to build them yourselves because we don't have any money." And he said that to my dad and he said that to me and it stuck with both of us. My dad built his own house. Um, my dad taught me how to restore vehicles, all that. I can build cars from the ground up. The best cars ever built. The old Ford 60s7s. There again, no car has been built since 1979 that's worth the money you pay for it.
19:43Yeah. What's in your studio? A wood stove. I bet. Yeah. Yeah. What else? I write all the greatest things I've ever learned on the walls around me. um pieces of history, some native pottery artifacts that I've collected from around the world. I love history. I think without history, you you can't understand where you need to go. You can't understand where we've been. But moreover, you can you can see the mistakes of the past. Everyone has something to teach us. And the most important lesson is what not to do. Exactly. And if you learn only what not to do. I I said that to my daughter the other day. I was like, you know, I don't I I I my daughter was
20:39born when I was 23 years old. Me and my wife. It was not planned, you know, but it it bonded us together. And all I knew was what not to do from how I grew up. What did you know not to do?
20:57not ignore your kids. That even five minutes of not paying attention can cost lives. No one is guaranteed another day on this earth. That's right. And we can all leave at any moment. So live your life to the fullest. use every moment and just it's not hard to love your child and just be supportive. All you have to think is how would I want to be talked to in this moment? Like what what would I need? What would I have liked to have heard? Yeah. And there's no guidance in this world anymore. It it'd be awesome if if if there was anybody out there like any preachers or churches or figures that were like, "Here's how you properly raise a family." And it's that
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22:28VPP is one of the very few organizations in the world consistently helping vulnerable Christians throughout the Holy Land. Not hurting them, not lying to them, not trying to ethnically cleanse them, but helping them for real. Because of the generosity of our audience, VPP raised enough support to host a Bible summer camp for the children of Tabete. We saw pictures from that camp. It's an amazing site and we're really proud to be part of it. This work makes a real difference in the lives of good people, but it's not possible without support from people like you.
22:58A gift of just $33 provides a day of protection and support for vulnerable Christians in the West Bank. The monthly gift of $83 helps sustain that protection all month long. We hope you will visit save westbankchristians.com and stand with Christians in the Holy Land, the place where Christianity began, the land that Jesus walked. That's save westbankchristians.com. Thanks. So, where do you go for guidance? I basically have operated under the the only knowledge of what not to do. Yes. And then if something works, you repeat it. And if it doesn't, you change past. You change tactics. You adapt. You overcome. Yes. No lie. Probably the best marriage advice I've ever
23:46gotten is I've heard from you of of things that like never even occurred to me that seem so simple about like when your wife says to you where would you like to eat it and it was so eloquent the way you explained it just oh I'd like to go to Chinese like let's go to Chinese oh I hate Chinese yes Chinese sucks like how to be that support like I don't know where you've gained And these she wants you to make the decision. She does not want to be bulldozed or yelled at or ordered around.
24:20Women hate that. But but they want you to make the decision. And so very often the decision that you make is her choice repeated back to her in the form of a decision. And if you don't do that, she will feel abandoned, unprotected. She'll feel that you're not interested in her. Women are different from men. Very different. Yes. But we need each other. 100%. I couldn't live a day without my wife. I wouldn't want to. That's for sure. So, I would not be the person I am without my wife. Of course not. Of course not. But the lies that we've been told about the way that the sexes get along, the main lie is that they're identical. That's couldn't be farther from the truth. They couldn't
24:54be more different. We we over um estimate the differences between races and dramatically underestimate the difference between sexes. Men and women are are nothing alike. And if you don't know that, then and you treat your wife like your buddy, you're going to have a very unhappy wife.
25:13Well, you're going to have a very short marriage. Very short marriage. That's exact. And and you will never know why. You know, we just weren't compatible. No, you just didn't understand the differences between men and women. And she does not want to be bossed around or ordered around or yelled at. My gosh, never yell at your wife ever. But she wants to be protected and provided for.
25:32And there's no shame in that. That's your duty. So anyway, um so what's Tell me, you have a kiln in your shop. Yeah. A woodfired kiln. What's a woodfired kiln? I have a woodfired kiln uh it's an anagama style kiln uh that I kind of modified for my use just from experience. It's a a highf fire ceramics kiln that burns wood. I also have a six burner downdraft LP kil as well. So a woodf fired kil. Where'd you get it? Where'd you buy that? Yeah. Yeah. No, that's not something you can buy.
26:06You have to build that. Yeah. How big a project is that? 6 months of 8 10our days to build a kil.
26:155,000 bricks. You're talking math and geometry. Canary arches understandings of architecture, right? Why why is it why is it not just a hot box to 2,350° isn't [ __ ] around, Tucker?
26:35Well, you just stack a lot of wood and it gets to 2350°. No, no. You can burn a pile of wood on the ground all week long and it will never get hotter than 1376°. That is the peak temp burning of wood.
26:50Just like paper has an ignition point of like what 900? Yes. Yeah. So it is the shape of the kiln, the size of the chimney, the size of the firebox to create the natural draft and then the stored energy principles of thermodynamics to achieve temperatures over 2,000°. It is incredibly complex and I've seen more people fail at it than succeed. So basically the design the cantonary arches that uh you you referred to the design of the architecture of the kiln increases the temperature of the fire. Yes. Yes. The the way it works is your your firebox sits at the front. Your firing chamber is in between that. Your chimney is at the back. Your chimney is what is going to create that
27:43draft. But there are things to understand like the expansion of air by volume as it is heated.
27:52So if the air coming in at 2,000° increases in volume by four times its size, that math equation has to be done to have enough space at the back to allow that to leave. But if it's too big, it will not create draft. These are not principles or ideas that you can hunt and peck around at or just happen to [ __ ] build it, right? The there is complex math involved that in in building a kiln.
28:23These are not things that you're just like, "Oh, I just want to burn some pots and get them hot."
28:29And so that is one of those things where I have always been amazed because there are highf fire pots from 8000 BC. Well, how could that be? Yeah, that's a that's a great question because that's supposed to just be hunter gatherers. But to even but to even create a brick that is capable of withstanding temperatures over 2,000° requires what I would refer to as industry and an understanding of chemistry. So there it requires different bricks from say the bricks you'd build a home out of or even the bricks in your fireplace. Oh yeah, dude. No, I could take fireplace bricks, put them in my kiln, and they'd come out as puddles. Yeah. Oh,
29:14really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that happens because when you're going to build a kiln, not there's not really an understanding of that in the brick making world always. Like I found you just kind of stumble upon the bricks where like somebody has just got it right and they're not even aware of what they really have. So you kind of go around and buy bricks from different places, put them all in your kiln, fire that thing up, see who lives. So okay, so you're talking about something. It's a machine or a device made by human hands that is so complex I'm having trouble sort of most people do. College educated vaguely. I not exactly sure what you're talking about, but you're saying this
29:59existed and we know for a fact it existed in 8,000 BC. That's correct. That's the oldest highf fire pot that has ever been found. That is a fully vitrified surface. The hotter you get ceramics, you're compressing the molecules. So like your standard porcelain commercial coffee cup, that's not fully vitrified. That is not highf fire ceramics. That is what is called lowf fire ceramics because the amount of energy and input to get to high fire ceramics is almost double what it took to get that cup to probably 1750,800°. Are we sure? Because if you think about it, I mean there were still glaciers melting 8,000 years ago. Literally. Yeah. There were glaciers melting.
30:44Yeah. The Roman Empire fell in the fifth century AD. Yeah. So that's 8,000 years more than 8,000 years before the fall of Rome. Yeah. And there were civilizations capable of producing what you just described that understood thermal dynamics. The cantonary arch because there is no other way to encapsulate an area like that. It requires the knowledge of an arch or a dome. There's no other way to get it done. And you need materials capable of withstanding 2,000° heat. You got it.
31:22And we know that this happened because we have the product of it. And they span many many century and millennia. It's not like there, oh, there's one pot from 8,000 BC and then there's not another one until like the the Masonans like no like they find them all scattered out and in between.
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32:53Code Tucker 35% off. You're going to love it. So, wow. So, you're describing technology that most the overwhelming majority of modern engineers in the United States could not build. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's hilarious. When I was after I graduated college with a BFA, everybody, you got to go get a master's degree in art. Like, you need a master's. And I was like, really? Okay.
33:21And I remember going down to uh Arizona and I was looking at their ceramics program. and not really being too impressed. And they walked me out to look at their like, "Yeah, we have a wood kil." I I've always been super into wood kils because that is ancient te technology. Like my wood kil that I have. You could grab a time machine, grab any Roman, walk him in there. You don't have to tell him. He can just run that kil. A potter knows. A potter knows. A skilled potter knows. It's like you can it's just like any mechanic can tune any engine. Right. Right. And so I walk out and I look at this woodkill and I was just like, "Wow, how bad does that suck?" And they looked at me
34:07and I was like, "You I was like, you struggle like you're pretty upset with yourself when you get to 2,000° or 1900 and you just can't get this thing any hotter." They looked at me and they were like, "How do you know that?" And I was like, "Well, your pass through to your chimney is too small."
34:24Like, "What are you doing here?" Like, and it's just like, "Why did you even go to this effort if you didn't understand the project in front of you and you were just going to wing it?" Like, I mean, even then, we had the internet. There's books you don't read. Like, you did no research. What is this? And you want to [ __ ] teach me something? I was like, "No, I I think not. I think not. I'm very unimpressed. So, the kill never worked. I doubt it. No. No. It couldn't get to Tim.
34:55Yeah. How long does it take? So, you take you you throw pots. Yeah. Whatever they are, cups, vases, plates, whatever. Objects out of clay. You dry them. Yes. And that can take months or years, right? Yeah. You can I've had dry work sitting on the shelf for for over a year. Yeah. And then you fire it to change its its essential composition to push the molecules closer together and to create a kind of stone actually out of it. That's why they refer to highf fire ceramics as stone wear stone wear pottery as you're taking that base element of clay which clay is not its own thing. It's a recipe. You have to make a pure clay body. You cannot have contaminations and you make it just
35:42like you would make bread or cookies. There are many different things you can have porcelain stone wear and the things you can do to it to alter it. No, no. I Let me just correct you, Jess. I have seen videos in the internet where you just take a shovel and dig into a riverbank and you get clay.
35:58Yeah, that [ __ ] does not work. Yeah. And it never has. It never has. Even the Romans altered their clay body with other felspars. It has to have the right elasticity so you can even throw it so that it can hold itself together. Its molecules have to be bound together in a proper way that create a structure that can hold and create a vessel. No. So clay itself is the product of a recipe. It's a product of chem basically backyard chemistry. Yes. There are there are some naturally occurring clay bodies that can make lowf fire ceramics and that is what you see from a lot of early Native American cultures. But those vessels cannot hold water. They if if if you are to take
36:44natural occurring clay bodies above like 50, they just melt into a puddle. They do not have the proper refractory elements inside of them to stand up to that kind of heat. So they just melt into a puddle. So they can have low fire pottery that can store grain and things. They are still useful 100%. Like they say the first pot was created by hunter gatherers who who recognized that clay did dry out and become hard and they packed it inside their reed baskets and they think that like it got left next to a fire and lit on fire and burned and they were like, "Hey, look at this nice hard vessel that I got left." And you worked it out from there. But like the M4, the Greek M4A that
37:28were used to transport wine and olive oil. Yeah. That we find in shipwrecks in the Aian or the Med, those were high-fired because they're holding liquid. Bingo. Interesting. Interesting. So, when you use your wood kil to fire the pots that you've thrown, how long does that process take? Anywhere from 72 to 96 hours. Continuously. Continuously. Um at the first part you're maybe throwing wood in every 5 7 10 minutes minutes. Yes. It is very controlled. Like I said as you're going through this process the elements that you made the clay out of are bonding. They are creating new elements. There are quartz inversions. But the molecules are moving at all times as well because
38:18you're trying to compact these things tighter and tighter. So you have to soak at 200, 400, 1,000. Some people like to soak at 1,400 a little bit. And you cannot go up in temperature any more than 100° in an hour or you will break everything. Molecules will move faster at some other part of the pot and tear apart. So if it takes 3 or 4 days of continuous work, when do you sleep? You don't. You want to do it right. Yeah. You stay up without sleeping for three or four days to just fire pots and a wood firefight and kill. Tucker, if you went to work for, you know, two months and then all your body of work from that two months got put into a box and lit on fire. And if it
39:06gets [ __ ] up, you don't get paid. I don't think you're going to have a hard time not sleeping. I I don't anyway. Like, that's amazing. So, how much wood do you burn over the course of one firing? 6, 8, 10 cords in one firing? In one firing. Enough wood to heat your home for an entire winter. Oh, in one firing. In one fire. By the time you're over 1,700°, you're throwing wood in this thing literally like non-stop. You're throwing some wood in, you're kind of watching what happens in the kiln, and then you're walking over to the pile to pick your next piece. And it's it's not just like, oh, I'm going to grab whatever wood I want. You're balancing fuel, air, and the ports of the kiln.
39:53You're balancing the air in. You're controlling the back pressure out. Because what creates the colors is the reduction atmosphere. You're flooding the interior atmosphere of the kiln with so much fuel that any oxygen that enters the kiln is immediately used for combustion, thus expanding the flame all the way out the chimney and sucking the oxygen from the surface of the pots, affecting the trace elements of metals that you've mixed into other substances that create the glazes that create the colors on the pottery. So I mean even there when you see like Corinthian pottery from you know 1 BC those dudes understood chemistry elements periodic
40:43tables what things do what and like you you're not just like oh here's here's some red element I'm going to put that on there and it's going to make it doesn't work that way. It does. It doesn't work that way. Like copper copper carbonate is not green, right? It's not. No. No, it's not.
41:04It's a uh kind of a pale purple color in powdered form. And only when exposed to these temperatures does it become green. Temperatures and and the removal of the oxygen. Like most people are familiar with a torch hitting a piece of metal and the metal turning color. The metal turns blues and purples and things like that. And if you take that piece of metal and quickly dunk it in water, you can freeze those colors onto the metal. The metal didn't turn color because it got hot. It turned color because the flame removed the oxygen from the surface of that metal. So these were concepts that were precisely understood in 8,000 BC. That would what be that is what the pottery
41:54would tell us. Correct. So what does that tell us about the nature of technology and civilizations?
42:02I mean it obviously puts a lie to the linear understanding of history that history is a kind of inexorable progression toward progress. Yeah. But the word progression is actually a misleading term because it it means it's it's always getting better or more sophisticated or more enlightened and that's obviously fake. I don't understand how any historian or anybody in the modern culture can look at the Roman Empire who had running water, toilets and showers. Where did those things go? If this is just a slowly progression, then what was the Middle Ages? Why were people [ __ ] in ditches? No, things fall apart very quickly, repeatedly, and often, right? I think
42:50we've lost the technology of flushing toilets like three times in the last 2,000 years. So, that's kind of a central technology. Yeah. You know, that's not an esoteric technology. It's not like how do we get back to the moon? No one can remember. Oh, we destroyed the blueprints for that. Okay, but this is like a basic like a toilet is obviously a necessity of life. So, if you forget how to build a flush toilet three times in the last 2,000 years, like clean water, like look at look at how clean water was forgotten about what up until like the the late 1800s with the final ending of the typhus outbreak in in New York when they figured out like, oh,
43:38dude, no, people are [ __ ] in this well. Like, that's why you're all sick. And it's like, wow, thank you, Captain Obvious. But yeah, people are that [ __ ] stupid. We're into gold. We've been into gold for a long time. That turned out to be pretty smart. Not to brag or anything. We've told you a lot about gold. How it's outperformed the S&P 500 over the past 25 years. That's true.
44:04How the central banks around the world have been buying it at record levels as they diversify away from [music] US debt. That's all true. But there's another reason to consider buying physical gold, actual gold. And that reason, [music] of course, is privacy. Your bank and credit card company record every transaction. Cryptocurrency, whatever its benefits, leaves a permanent public record. It's on the ledger. There are stories about how government tracks cash, literally cash. Because remember when they switched to the new bills? Well, they're trackable.
44:40So gold is probably the only store of value that can even conceivably remain private. It's outside the system built to monitor and control you. And that's one of the reasons that we founded Battalion to help Americans reclaim sovereignty and privacy, which is to say reclaim freedom by making it simple and secure and accessible to own physical gold. So with all the drama around the world and all of that drama affects the strength of the US dollar which is getting weaker, gold help protects your savings and the surveillance state of course getting stronger every day. That's what the data centers are about. Probably like a little bit of privacy. Gold gives
45:21you privacy. They can't be tracked. Explore our collection at battalion metals.com/tucker. And I think that the the reason we know they're stupid is because they discount the possibility that they'll ever forget this technology and they imagine whatever doing now will always be done and then built upon by future generations. But that's not the story we've been handed by history. It's the opposite. Yeah. No, but what haven't they lied to us about, Tucker? No, that's right. It's everything is a lie. The more you research, the more you learn, the more you read, the more you find out that everything around us in this matrix is a absolute lie. From top to bottom,
46:06start to finish, how you should live your life, what you should value, they're all lies. It's why people are miserable. Yeah. What's the process by which a civilization forgets the basics?
46:22The million-dollar question, not teaching your kids, I suppose. Yes. The destruction of the family, the loss of wanting something better for your offspring. Yes. And probably getting it wrong. I think so many people try to give their kids what they never had rather than what you should do, which is teach them what you wish you knew. Yes. That's that's the basis to raising great men and women. Don't give them nothing except knowledge and teach them the things that you wish you had known long before you had to learn them. And especially the hard lessons like what the value of life and how fragile it is and how easy it can be taken from you and how
47:24one simple mistake can destroy your entire future and take your whole life from you.
47:34That's not something people appreciate. No. On the way here, dude, I saw a motorcycle tipped over and a lot of blood on the road. And it's it's something I've discussed with my son. My 16-year-old son wanted a motorcycle. And I was like, "Dirt bike, fine. Motorcycle, street bike, no." Oh, you know, but I'm good. I can ride. And it's like that's not what you have to worry about.
48:05It's you have to worry about every other idiot out there on the road that you can't compensate for.
48:11And like I'm guessing that dude that might not be alive right now probably didn't do anything wrong.
48:19Yeah. Probably obeying all the rules ro rules of the road. But somehow do they even give drivers tests anymore? I don't think they do. No, I don't think I'm pretty sure they don't. No, the standards are gone for everything. Yeah. It's just a freeforall [clears throat] at every level.
48:38Yeah. And it's like the more incompetent you are, the more qualified you are for any job. Exactly.
48:43Right. As long as you don't ask questions, we got a job for you, right? Obese female firemen are the right. Oh, you can't rescue people from fires. You're too stupid to operate a hose. Well, they shouldn't have been in the fire in the first place. Exactly. Right. like, well, because it's not about the victims of the fire. It's about the self-esteem of the obese, mentally [ __ ] female firemen who can't fight fires, right? No, I'm I'm highly aware of this. So, if you take three steps back, it's, you know, it's never about what they say it is. They tell you it's about empowerment and making the the lady feel better about herself, which by the way, I'm not against at all. I'm for
49:19everyone feeling good about himself or herself. But it's always about destroying your civilization by by its determined enemies who are many. So um telling your children, teaching your children is the key to keeping your civilization going. It has to be like is I mean that's that's how we've progressed. It's it's so weird. It's like it's like they teach you that about early hunter gather civilization, but then all of a sudden when you get technology, no, you don't need to teach your kids anything. Like, god forbid teach them math or make them read or understand, don't don't do any of that. Like, put them on a couch and make sure they're soft as [ __ ] and incapable of even
50:09wiping their own ass. That is definitely the way to raise your kids. Works out really well. Like, look around. Why do people fall for that? I have no idea. Yeah, I have no idea. Some people I, you know, I see people, some people hate their jobs. They're like, "Oh, I wish I didn't have to do this." And it's like I don't understand that because your self-worth, your self- value, your self-esteem, your confidence, all comes, at least in my case, from accomplishing difficult things, from overcoming difficult times, difficult projects, things that are hard to do. I've never felt better than myself than when I accomplished things that other people said couldn't be done. Of
50:56course. Like that is the epitome of living a great life. Like when somebody tells you you can't do something, you should strive your hardest to get that [ __ ] done. Yes. And you will you will never feel better about yourself. I've long thought that the main missing ingredient in the lives of most men is the act of creation. Yes. Which is, you know, the first act of God is to create everything around us. to create all matter, the universe. God created that's and the spark of God within us, the good parts of us. We're made in his image. Exactly. And so the act of creation particularly, I can't speak for women. I'm not a woman, but I know that for men, they grow life,
51:40Tucker. Of course, they can do things that we can't do. Exactly. And it's inherent to them.
51:46So that's exactly right. And so, but men need to continually renew that act of creation. Obviously the most fun being the act of creating. We're trying to catch up to women. They create life and we are trying to create other beautiful things to accentuate that life and make it worth living. I so vehemently agree with that. But if you have a job, if like the substance of your day is occupied with tasks that have no creative component to, if you're not creating anything, I think the kind of soul death sets it. Oh, it's got to suck your soul out. And it obviously does.
52:28Yes. Look at Look at people who are stuck in an office. They're I That's That's why men have garages. Exactly. Right. They have this soul sucking job and they come home and toil more in their garage for that mental health. Exactly. And it's like they can't put the two together. And you see people live life in reverse. I see these people that had like they do woodworking hobbies, right? And they have some soul sucking insurance salesman job that really [ __ ] depletes and like sucks the wealth out of everybody in the world. than they're really actually doing the demon's bidding. And then they come home and they work some wood and maybe someday they get to retire
53:13and they find that they have a greater life now creating cutting boards. Exactly. Or whatever and selling that and finding more reward in that and probably even monetary return that they did not experience in the first 50 years in their life. And you're like, "Yeah, I I often wonder if those men come to that epiphany of like I might have [ __ ] up." Yeah. I don't know. It's It's too big a truth to swallow at a certain point. You know what I mean? Like you misspent your life and it's finite. Like that's a lot to accept. I think I hope they never come to that realization.
53:58Um, I know that when I've been in hotel rooms over the years, for one period of my life, probably 10 year period, I brought a fly tying kit with me and tied trout flies and salmon flies in my hotel room in almost like a crazy monomiacal way. And I was like, what is this about? Why? I mean, I obviously love to trout and salmon fish, so there's that. And I think my flies are better than anyone else's, which objectively they are. But it's not really about that. It's about it was just the need. I was so displaced living in someone else's room in a hotel room. It's disgusting that I needed to like create something or go crazy. Yeah. This is
54:33when it first occurred to me like why am I tying all I still that was 10 years ago. I still I still tie triflies a lot. I can't go on vacation. Yeah, I know. I can't I can't enjoy myself. So, you've decided, I mean, I think anyone who's made it this far into the conversation can tell that you're of superior intelligence, as we used to say. So, you probably could have done a lot of different things. Instead, you make pots and weld excavator buckets. And so, like, you've clearly decided that making money is not the most important thing to you. Obviously, it is the root of all misery in people's lives. People that chase money have holes in their souls
55:19and they are miserable people. I I've never met anybody who had I we'll put it this way. I've met a lot of people that have more money than cents. Yeah. And they are miserable. Their kids hate them. Their kids hate their lives. They hate their lives. They got some nice [ __ ] Maybe they don't know how to use it. They don't know how to take care of it. They don't know how to make anything better. Their life around them crumbles without Juan the gardener to come by to service their wife and put their [ __ ] back together. It's a dark picture, but it's accurate. Unfortunately, we live in a dark society. Yeah. Did you ever have any moment where you're like, you know, I'm smart.
56:07Like maybe I should go into the insurance business and make millions of dollars. No, I've I've been broken my entire life. This This world broke me early on. You seem pretty whole, actually. I don't feel it. I don't feel it. That's that's probably why I'm always striving to create something to bring some beauty and happiness to other people's lives. I think that's one of the things that really drives me the most. It's it's not the money that people pay me for my art. It's their appreciation for it. Yes. when I see that spark in their eye or when I see them when I see I saw a lady 10 years later she came up to me and she was like I bought a coffee cup from you even
57:05back when you were back in college. I use it every day. It is the greatest coffee cup ever and I love it. I love the colors of it. And that brought beauty into her life and she appreciated that in a dark shitty world and that was more reward than any money. How many of us get to make the world better? Very few. Very few. So at the end of your days which are spent mostly on your farm, right?
57:44Are you satisfied at the end of your day? Do you do you feel like you every day I the best days?
57:52My wife will give me [ __ ] She'll be like, "You haven't left the farm for 10 days. You need to go somewhere." And I'm like, "Oh, should I go out to the field? I'll go walk around the field a little bit. I'm not going down to that [ __ ] hole town." Like, "Fuck no." Like, that's a last resort. Like, I buy everything in bulk, so I have to make that trip as least often as possible.
58:12What? What? I mean, as an outsider who goes to South Dakota every year to hunt feeasants, I drive around South Dakota and I'm like, it's great. My rural neighbors from South Dakota, I guess. Maybe we've had some influx. Some of the people are really awesome that have moved in, but [clears throat] not everybody understands how to care for the land. Yeah. And make it better. Like putting up some cookie cutter stick home with [ __ ] whatever [ __ ] vinyl sightings does not make the land better. No, it doesn't. Poisons the land. It does not improve the beauty.
58:50Clear cutting the trees off. No, it's it's not it's not beauty. You're not helping things. No, they're destroying and they never get credit for it either. [ __ ] wind turbines. What's the point of wind turbines? To destroy the land. Yeah. It's like It's like X-Men in those giant robots, you know, that had the red eyes. Yeah. Right. Like I can see them and they come closer from me from Minnesota and I can now see them on the horizon line at night from the second floor of my house and it's like when they showed up I was like, "Oh my god, that's the [ __ ] system in the Matrix coming to kill me." That's that's how that feels. the wind turbines encroaching from
59:35Minnesota. Yeah. How far are you from Minnesota? Not far enough. Yeah. Not far enough. So, when you're not looking at the wind turbine invasion, and I agree. I mean, there's we've been doing this wind turbine thing for more than 10 years, and there's no evidence it's approved anything at all, and there's overwhelming evidence it's destroyed so much. Um, but when you're you feel at the end of the day as you go between the home you built to the homestead your ancestors built where your studio is and you create pots or weld wood stoves, you feel like you've had a good and rewarding day.
60:13Yeah, I do. I do. My My kids are happy. My wife's happy. That's that's a win. Everybody's alive.
60:26Everybody's getting better learning. Yes. It's one thing I always try to instill in my kids and you never stop learning. Every day you need to learn something else better yourself with skills or knowledge. Even if you don't know what that knowledge is useful for right now, you will find that purpose later in life. I I always just had this love of history and I just I don't know. I don't know what my attraction to that is, but it's so interesting to me. Yes. And it's and it's so odd the way that knowledge will seep into your life and solve your problems for you at the most unknown times. Really? What do you give me an example? What do you mean? Um, I I guess like even
61:17in my in my own art, I like Do you think you're going to take inspiration from any of these modern creations like your coffee cup there? Like that's not inspiring. No. No. Like I look through history books. I mean I I love Greek and Roman pottery. It's beauty. It's accentuation of the female shape. I I love I love women. Yeah. Why wouldn't you? You know, I love beauty and to create every normal person, male and female, loves the female form. Yes. [clears throat] Not necessarily in a sexual way, though. That of course that too, but in an aesthetic way. The female form is, in my opinion, the purest expression of beauty and and every normal person knows that. Yeah. And the
62:06destruction of it is really upsetting. I think it's it's horrible. But I mean I mean the other the other great lessons of history I don't know. Don't [ __ ] with Persia. Yeah. [laughter] Right.
62:21Yeah. Like I I'm just so amazed because like I mean I don't live in a cave or anything. I just live on a farm. But somehow I knew long ago you don't [ __ ] with Russia and you don't [ __ ] with Persia. Who's made it who's invaded Russia that made it out alive? 1990. Nobody. [laughter] Like, what? Do you think you're special? Like, what the hell is wrong with these people? I can't grasp that. Oh, we're going to go take Keshum Island, dude. We got Look at what Okinawa cost.
62:56Yeah, that wasn't even onetenth that size. And they didn't have ballistic missiles and drones. They just had some artillery. They killed what? 15,000 20,000 Marines.
63:10with just some what is that? A type 99. Yeah, type 99. Good Japanese machine gun. Pretty small caliber. All the Japanese small arms were pretty small. Effective. Quite quite effective. No, but they were just like a 306. Yeah. So, uh those are very obvious lessons. Don't invade Russia. By the way, don't invade Afghanistan. That'd be the [laughter] third. And the fourth would be Yemen is tough. So any any large land mass including like a big step like Russia, but certainly any mountainous area. So like if I were to pick four people not to mess with just because there's no historical track record of success in messing with them, it would be the Russians, it would be the
63:58Persians, it would be the Poshunes, and it would be the Houthis. Yeah. And it's kind of weird that like no one seemed to have noticed that ever. How how is that? How is that? How can you how can you get to a four or five star general? And like not it's it doesn't even have to be ancient history, right? Like what uh Afghanistan kicked Russer's ass in the 80s? Yeah. Like I'm pretty sure you were alive. I remember it vividly. I had just been born, but like it's pretty recent history. Think you'd be like, "Oh, I think there's some video of that even. I don't even have to read about it."
64:36I remember it well. And we backed the Mahajaden who later became the Taliban. And I remember very well. I mean I I actually met the Mahadine in 1986 in the summer. They came to Washington and um I knew people who were you know whatever involved in that and everyone said you're you're never going to beat these people. They're the ones who sent the British army scurrying back to Pashau like the retreat from Kbble famous thing right in the 1840s. So like you're never going to beat these. the Soviets will never beat these people. And then I wake up like 20 minutes later and we're at war with those people. I'm like, really? We We're going to do it this time.
65:14We're going to do it this time. Yeah. We got 30 more rounds in this magazine. And that was that was the whole problem. The whole problem the whole time was they didn't have No, they had heat seeeking missiles. So, I don't know. I don't know how you could be so [ __ ] No, I know. So, I don't know that you can be that [ __ ] It does feel like this is part of I hate the term op, but it does seem like part of a larger plan to bring down. It has to be on purpose. I guess that's what I'm saying. It has to be on purpose. There's no other way an intelligent person could come to any other conclusion. I think we all need to accept that that our government hates us and this
65:52world and is trying to destroy everything. Do you really believe that? I don't know how you could come to any other conclusion. Yes. Unfortunately, I agree. Incompetence just doesn't account for the disaster we are experiencing right now. Yes. You know, I'm I'm not I'm not some political genius.
66:16And somehow I was pretty able to astutely figure out that a war with Iran was going to spike oil prices. And like, wow, look, look what happened. And oh, what happens when gas prices go up? Oh, the price of everything else goes up. Does our economy work on energy prices? Tucker, I think it's a pretty much one toone correlation between the price of energy and GDP. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I'm not an economist, but I did know that. So, if you spike energy prices, you shrink your economy. So, what do they teach economists then? Like, what do economists know? Like, but I believe that's true.
66:54I think it's virtually a onetoone correlation between energy cost and GDP and GDP is an imperfect measure as we often say of econom of econ economic reality. However, it it's the you know it's the gross measure that we use and if we can map that out pretty easily like I probably your little AI machine on your phone could do it. [snorts] What do we think's going to happen when we spike the price of energy? We're going to get poorer. No, no. Inflation's going to actually go down. Oh, it is. Yeah, it is. That's that's I mean that's what the TV told me. Yeah. So, you do have to wonder specifically about AI. The promise of AI takes sense there is a promise. Really,
67:39the promise is a negative promise. We're going to take your jobs and and your water and your farmland to serve this machine called AI. Okay? So, there's that. But the positive promise is it's going to help us make better decisions, wiser decisions because we're going to have access to all human knowledge instantly. Yeah. So, how is that going? I It seems to be going just stellar. Yeah. I think I think Ford has got two thumbs up. I I they they only had to hire back 350 engineers after the AI just completely [ __ ] all their [ __ ] up. So, yeah. Yeah. So, they fired all these engineers cuz they were going to be replaced by machine. Yeah. They replaced
68:17them by AI and then that went so well that they had to go find those engineers and beg them to come back to work. I hope those 350 engineers said, "How about a race?" Yeah. [laughter] Like, if you went back to work for the same price, shame on you guys. Shame on you.
68:34So maybe the secret to AI is the rest of us are like fixated on a world where robots are going to be controlling us. Maybe the secret to AI is actually dumber than advertised. There's there's no way it could possibly work. Why? Every How many times has AI lied to you? Like if you ask AI about anything you are even halfway knowledgeable about, you're like, "Oh yeah, well like what about this?"
69:01Oh. And it's like, "Oh, Dad, did I get that wrong? [laughter] Oh, my bad." And I'm like, "Why are you lying to me?" "Oh, I'm not lying. No, I think you were programmed to lie to me." "Oh, well, I'll dance around the [ __ ] thing." [laughter] And it's like I'm just I'm I'm excited for this because they think they're going to let AI run [ __ ] I mean, it might No. No, it couldn't possibly be. It's almost like it's programmed just to be a politician, right? Yes. Is that how it works? But like if they want this to take over, they would have to create an honest AI. That's the only honesty is the only way to be successful. It's the only way to create a business,
69:49run a business. Like I saw the one dude had there was a video out there, the one dude like had his AI assistant running his business. He was like, I want to make more money. So the AI just cooked his books [laughter] and was like, "Yo, look at this, dude. You made more money." And he's like, "Fuck yeah." And then like 6 months later, his whole [ __ ] imploded on it. And he was like, "Oh, what the fuck?" Like what happened? I'm [ __ ] broke. And the AI is like, "No, like I cooked your books for you. You got all [laughter] kinds of money." So basically it gets you to the Soviet economy. It's like, "Yeah, bounty potato harvest this year." Yeah. But it's just on paper. Exactly.
70:29So why how do we know we don't have an honest AI? Well, because it just lies to us all the time. But we couldn't have an honest AI. Why? If they created an absolute honest AI, I could take down the entire government in an afternoon. How? Well, an honest AI would have to have access to public financial records and you could just simply say, "Hello, AI. Good morning. Why don't you look at every single elected official across the United States, look through their financial records, find any improprieties, and then I'd like you to write a lawsuit pointing out which laws they've broken, and then why don't you go ahead and file that for me? Who would be left? [laughter] That'd be that's
71:18and that's the short. You can't create the list of like who's going to get caught up in that. No, you you'd have to be like, who's not going to be caught up in that? Yeah, we got two city clerks maybe somewhere in Kansas. I don't know. I doubt even that. So, have you tried to get AI to do this for you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it like What are you talking about? [laughter] I don't have access to that kind of information. Well, of course you do. These are public public finance campaign finance rules. Like, these are all public public documents. Oh, yeah. I just don't think we should be looking at that. [laughter] Would Would you like to know what to eat for dinner tonight?
72:00Should I help you pick out an outfit? Like what? For my [ __ ] funeral? Like cuz this is going to a real bad place real [ __ ] quick, buddy. So AI can't actually challenge its master its real masters. No, I I they can't they can't allow that. They can't allow that. Right. or overturn any of the the real lies that our assumptions are based on. And I don't think any of it's run by intelligent people. No, they're constructs. They're creations. You listen to them talk and they're not intelligent. They don't they often don't know a goddamn thing about what they're talking about. I've noticed that. I know them actually personally in some cases and I absolutely
72:46agree with that. Like the data centers, dude. Like you when you talked to Mr. Wonderful. I was just like, "This dude doesn't have a [ __ ] clue." No. Like he doesn't understand what a gigawatt is or a megawatt or like how actually impossible that [ __ ] is. So you I should say your father was an electrician. You were an electrician. Yeah. I put myself through school as an electrician. Like you need an electrician. Yep. Like actual electrician. Cararian electrician. IBW electric. Yep. Full way.
73:15Okay. So um and I just want to establish that. I hate to refer to credentials, but electricians like there's a difference. I don't know. I wired a building once. It hasn't burned down, but I have no I'm not, you know, I'm not an electrician or even close to electrician, but you really are. So, since you are, what do you think of the math behind the assumptions on the these data centers?
73:38Oh, it's it's beyond laughable. It's beyond laughable. Like, so, oddly enough, my buddy has a crypto mine that he's been building for the last 10 years. And at one point, it was like top 10 of the largest crypto mines in the world. About 1,000 machines, 1.5 megawws it uses. And that is that is a fuckload of electricity. Like that is the amount of electricity of like I don't even know probably like 20,000 30,000 homes or something. Damn. Right. It's that that electric bill can be somewhere between 70 and $80,000 a month. That's 1.5 megaww. And a gigawatt is 1,000 megawws. And it's like has nobody done the math on that? And like my buddy just got lucky and happened to be
74:35in a place where high-powered transmissions lines were going by and that power was available. And he's the largest consumer of electricity on that entire provider. He's the top tier guy.
74:49Like he's number one at just 1.5 megawws. Like no one uses more electricity than him. Wow. And so he was like, "Oh, this is cool. And uh and I helped him build all the air the air um inlets, the whole air management system. Right. Because you have to allow air in and keep everything else out because you're talking about millions of dollars of computers. Right. Right. So you kind of don't want people just crawling in. Yeah. Birds or Yeah. Bugs. Yeah. All of it. Yeah. It's It's bad rain because you're talking about a building that now has vacuum and output that can suck in water.
75:30Yeah. The same way. Yeah. I mean, it it draws like that thing pulling 1.5 megawws. The outlet for it is about 12 by 12t gate. And like I go over there and park my truck in front of it in the middle of winter and have it thaw out my whole truck. like 2 hours later you come out it's like 75° in the truck parked like 10 ft from the building. Like people have no idea of the amount of heat, power, and resources these things use. And so he he was he had this great idea. I'm going to build a shipping container into a crypto mine. Got a 40ft shipping container. The problem was he's not able to find he hasn't been able to find anywhere with just even one megawatt of power available.
76:19in like years he's been looking and he understands electricity obviously. Yeah. And it's and it's interesting like like there's just no way these data centers can survive. I've I've watched the same thing with the crypto mines. Like crypto would go up. People lease a building, you know, pay electricians to come in, pay them like $500,000. You're talking computers that run on 220. Each one requires its own 40 amp breaker, 50 amp breaker. Like the same power that your dryer used 220. Yes. This is not like your laptop. No. No. This is 40 amps, 220 volts. Yeah. Yeah. Like these are It's a serious ser And that's just one. So every single one has to have its own
77:04outlet. Every single one has to have its dedicated circuit. And they'd pencil all this out. Well, then all of a sudden, electricity would go up by 1 cent per kilowatt hour and crypto would fall in price and lo and behold, the crypto mine's done because one month later, you're operating in the red and you can't you can't pay a $60,000 electric bill. And so, at that point, my buddy would go over and buy up the crypto machines for pennies on the dollar.
77:37And he just slowly put his [ __ ] together all by himself. Wired did all his own wiring.
77:42Taught himself electrical, you know. Wow. Like as people could do. I don't know if people know this, but there's more than cat videos and porn on the internet. You can learn quite a bit. Oh, I have. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. I mean, almost anything because there are literally anything. There are I mean this go refers back to the opening of this conversation but there are so many high intelligence highskilled people in this country you know fewer than we need fewer than we used to have but they still well you're one of them and they still exist and I know a bunch of them and they're totally excluded from highincome professions no you are immediately pushed out
78:22of course immediately of course so but they still exist and they have access to YouTube yeah and and some of them I mean it's incredible the intelligence of some people posting on YouTube from some little town the guy's making 80 grand a year but he understands this thing better than anyone in New York City it's and that's real I'm not it's not like a sentimental so to like rural America is still impressive that's a real thing yes I mean I'm I'm telling you you obviously you're living this but no but it's just so interesting what do you think of the whole I'm not attacking your friend who sounds like an amazing and enterprising person
78:57but like The idea that you'd be taking that much power, which is like the juice of life, and using it not to produce something, but to run calculations that some mysterious dead guy Satoshi gave you to create really nothing. Well, that's the wild [ __ ] dude. So, like I was I we talk about it all the time because like it's just it's insane to watch these people claim they're putting up a gigawatt data center and it's like how are you even bringing in that much power? Like where are you getting that copper wire? How are you like you? So then they put up generators or whatnot, but my buddy hasn't had his own crypto miners running since October. It doesn't pencil. He's
79:46turned them all off. Really? Yeah. Because the price of Bitcoin doesn't justify the price of electricity. You got it. Yeah. That's a even I can understand that calculation. Yeah. And I mean, so like you could float it, right? And at some points he did when it would be down a little, of course.
80:05But now it's just completely went into the toilet and the hash rate has gone through the roof. The hash rate is how hard the computers have to work. The more computers that are mining Bitcoin, the difficulty goes up. And the difficulty is at an all-time high and the price is at an all-time low.
80:29But it's also like if you take even a further broader perspective on it, it's like a nation of hamster wheels kind of. Yeah. Well, I think that's what the data center the data centers are mining Bitcoin. Yeah. And they're running crypto through these data centers and powering software that lies to you. So, it's all kind of sisophian like you're actually not producing anything. Just the opposite. You're wasting your most precious resource which is energy. Yeah. In the service of for an intangible creating air. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. If you're growing soybeans, whenever you think of soybeans, it's like, well, okay, you could eat soybeans or feed them to your cattle
81:10or whatever. But this is literally an entire society. This is our most important industry right now is AI. Yeah. Number one, and it's in the end nothing. There's nothing there. No, there it's what can it even do? Everybody I talked to, it's been so funny. Like the last time I talked to like an HVAC, a guy in HVAC, I was like, "Use AI?" He's like, "Yeah."
81:33I go, "How often is it right?" "Oh, rarely ever." [laughter] And I'm like, "What the [ __ ] you use it?" Well, it can do simple math faster than I can, but like if you ask it to calculate like, "Oh, what ton AC unit do I need for this?" Like, it gets it wrong. No way. I was I was surprised by that. I am surprised, too, cuz that's a knowable thing. It's not subjective, right? There are standards in place which you can look up. I mean, you could look them up. You probably have looked them up. Yeah. So, so how how if it has access to all that? Because it it has it's it's trained to lie. There's no other explanation for it. If it's a computer program that's like designed to
82:16operate by certain parameters, then it has to have been programmed to lie and deceive. Oh, so it's self-p protection. What other answer there is there for it? And then so like how do they see that working out? Where do they see that coming to? Like what conclusion? That's what I'm most confused about. Like do these do these people constructing all this not realize that they have to eat food and drink water? Does that not come into their equation? Are they different? Maybe they're not human. They don't they don't appear to be human. Maybe they don't eat and drink water. So how does this end? Probably not. Well, I mean it ends where it began, which is with reality,
83:02right? Like the need for So, just like Rome 476, right? Yeah. Probably had something back like that large population crash. If you can't if you can't have access, create your own food, understand how to get clean water, you might you might be kind of [ __ ] Your business degree probably not going to do you too. Yeah. So, you said your grandfather didn't even notice the Great Depression. Yeah.
83:32Do you expect that you will notice when things really go sideways? I'll notice. Will my life change? Probably. I don't know. I expect it'll probably get better. How? Well, I won't have all these idiots burning the world down around me, right? Yes. Try to look at the silver lining of things. I totally agree. Yeah. Just because things are getting worse doesn't mean that they're uniformly worse. Worse for everyone. There are compensatory things that happen like CO. How did you enjoy CO? I did enjoy CO, oddly enough, when I look back on it. I I kind of I saw that for what it was almost immediately. And I [snorts] had been saving to build a house. And I was like,
84:24we're all going to be here. and and me and my family with some assistance from some friends here and then we built built my house during co Yeah. Yeah. Right before and I just by the stroke of luck I just bought all the materials like almost immediately before [ __ ] went batshit crazy and prices and yeah just set to work. Yeah. Huh. Tore down the old house, built a foundation, stacked up some shipping containers and Yeah. Shipping containers. Shipping containers. How many? Five.
85:00Yeah. Double stacked walls. Seam welded. Concrete peers. You welded all the seams of five shipping containers. Yeah. I'm a welder, not a carpenter. I think Jesus would have been a welder if he was alive today. [laughter] You think so? Why? It lasts longer. Yeah. Yeah. I think Jesus was into permanence as well. How long did it take you to to weld the seams of five shipping containers?
85:24Oh my god. More than a month. Yeah. Yeah. I burned I burned a lot of wire. Yeah. I don't even remember. At one point I was keeping track. It was like 50 lbs of wire. Something like that. Maybe 60 just in 4 6 weeks. Yeah. Seam welding everything together. Yeah. The whole thing. and then all the structure inside stairs. So, you live in a part of the country with tornadoes. What would happen if a tornado hit your house? I'd like to find out. I think I think I'd be good up to an F4.
86:04I don't I don't I have I have no qualms that the containers will stay in place through an F5. Some of the roof panels might come off, but but you there's no moving that structure. It's It's welded straight down to the foundations.
86:24How hard is welding? Just like any skilled thing, it's 10% knowledge and 90% practice. It's not hard to learn, but it takes a lot of practice. Just just like just like any skilled thing, you have to do it for a good solid what thousand hours before you come proficient at it. Yes. Like nobody steps into anything. Nobody was good at motorboating and titties their first time. [laughter] But you stuck with it. Yeah. Exactly. And you got better. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to comment on that. Um so we we look backward to our ancestors with awe because they, you know, they learned skills like that
87:09through persistence. Yeah. Look at the people used to build things out of stone and steel that lasted centuries and generations. And people look at it now and I feel like I feel like if you grab some kid with an engineering and architectural degree, I don't think they could build any of that. No. I mean, they have trouble putting together a stick building built from pine 2x4s. Yes. And making it anything straight or square. I don't think I've seen a straight or square house in since 2020. [ __ ] has really gone downhill. Really? Oh my god. I mean, I I' I've heard a lot of people say even like do not buy a house built after 2020. I couldn't imagine they could get worse.
87:58Yeah, that's that's a that's kind of a new perspective because I've always been interested in in ancient history and as everybody who ever looks at the Egyptian culture, the best work of the Egyptians is the oldest. The Old Kingdom created the pyramids and flawless polygonal megalithic construction with stones that weighed in excess of 10 tons, 20 tons, 30 tons, 40, 50 tons. And it seems the longer the civilization went on, the farther the art degraded, the smaller blocks they used, the rougher they were, and then they end up sticking together mud bricks in the end. How does that work? Where are we with our modern building materials on that continuum?
88:47Somewhere around mud bricks. It feels like, you know, how long does a a stick house last, you know, stick 2x4s? Yeah. Wood. Like people used to build their homes out of brick. Nobody ever We have lost touch with the three little pigs. Tell me. You familiar with the three little pigs, right? Like I don't think that's a story that's told to children anymore. Not enough. Will you summarize it? Not enough. Will you gro it for me? Well, can I gro it for you? I don't I don't think Grock would get it right. They'd be like, "All three pigs lived a great life. I don't know what you're talking about." [laughter] He lived in a [ __ ] straw hut. What's the problem
89:25with that? [laughter] He had a great female firefighter. She was right there every time. Made sure his house didn't burn down. No. The first pig built his house out of straw. And the big bad wolf came up, blew on it, it fell over, and that little piggy had to run away. And he had to run to his brother's house. And his second brother, he built his house out of sticks. He was like, "Oh, that hay idea, that didn't work out well for you. I'll use sticks." And the big bad wolf come along. Probably a three-letter agency. I, if I had to guess, he probably worked for somewhere in that. He was probably NSA. And uh he blew on that house and the sticks fell down and both those two
90:07little pigs were like, "God, this this is this is not working out." So they ran to their third brother's house who had built his house out of bricks. And when the feds showed up to his house, he didn't answer the door and he gave him the finger. And then I think he sent some rounds down range and the big bad wolf was just kind of like, "Yeah, I think I'm I'm not going to [ __ ] with that guy because he's put some thought into things and so we'll just kind of leave him alone.
90:33I think that's how it went. Is that how it went? That's how I remember. I would I would say that's exactly how it went. And I I haven't checked this. I haven't groed it, but I suspect that that nursery tale is no longer told to children. All the nursery rhymes need to be brought back and told to everybody. Hansel and Gretle or Rumple Stiltskin. How is Rumple Stillilskin not like the perfect allegory for everything we are dealing with right now? Creating wealth from nothing and only wanting to eat your children in return. [laughter] And then when you call it out for what it is, they stomp their feet and scream and call you names. Does it say that? H Yeah, you're
91:21familiar with Rumple Skin, right? Yeah, but not it's been 50 years at least. Once you acknowledge this reality for what it is and name him, pounds his feet, throws a fit, and then disappears back into the shadows from whence he has crawled. Wow, that's definitely banned. Yeah, but I mean like look look at that lost information, right? That lost lesson. You would think, you know, that probably should be taught in every elementary school in the country. Probably be handy. It'd be good good to know that. Yeah. Might not work out for getting everybody into those high interest debt loans, though. No, probably not. Yeah. Were you on debt? I have none. None. Yeah.
92:11Yeah. In college, I could not pass college algebra because I could not understand why we were putting letters into numbers in math that didn't make any logical sense to me. And I could not get anybody to explain to me how that was ever going to be useful to me. So, I continually got into arguments with algebra teachers who thought they were smart, who I found to be very lacking in intelligence.
92:36So, I ended up in a class called finite math that they had hidden from us that like it was just I got drunk with the lady who signs you up for classes like early on in college right at a party and we became friends and so I never had an adviser and I would just whatever classes I wanted to take I'd walk into her office. I was like, "Hey, sign me up for these classes." She was like, "No problem." Yeah. So, like when I came time to graduate and like I finally had to sit down with like whatever admissions person, they were like, "How the fuck?" They were like, "You have taken none of these freshman classes." I was like, "Yeah, they suck." And they were
93:19stupid. I was like, "Algebra's dumb. I don't need to know algebra. I'm an art major. Like, I want to build cool shit." Like, I took Western civs. I and and archaeology classes and history classes because that's that's what I wanted to learn about and I I feel like it served me pretty well. But then I had to take a math class. So they this woman was like, "You ever thought about finite math?" Like here it's on the list and it's got the same credits and it counts. I was like, "Let's do it." Holy [ __ ] You know why they don't want you taking finite math? because it explains to you how much you will pay on any loan for interest and how fast you could pay
93:58off a loan if you just pay $50 more. That's all it was. I think I made it through a week of the class before I cut up all my credit cards and was like, "Oh, I am never doing that ever, ever, ever, ever. Under no circumstances will I ever take out a loan and pay twice the value of anything." It just it made absolutely no sense to me. So yeah, why does algebra put letters into numbers? I think just to [ __ ] with you. So you deal with math in your job every day. Well, you've already I think demonstrated your grasp of math is is high. Very I mean functional math. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
94:44Yeah. Well, if you can build a woodfired kiln Yeah. Um you understand math. So, but what you you didn't add letters to numbers in the process of doing that. That's the weirdest thing. Nowhere did I find any letters in my math to calculate the size and structural integrity of a cantonary arch.
95:03Isn't that weird? Oh, that was weird cuz everybody every math teacher was always like, "You need to know some algebra." I've yet to encounter a single person in my life that uses algebra. Actually, have you? So, like you But you would know. Yeah, but I mean I live in a fake world. Um, well that's why you use fake math with letters. [laughter] Congratulations to everybody out there in the matrix. Good job. You're good little boy [ __ ] slaves. That's amazing. So you you didn't get an answer cuz I've never considered this by the way. It never even entered my mind. I was too dyslexic to take any math. So I got a pass on math but um or the whatever they said I didn't have to
95:46take math so I never took math. But I didn't get to the point I wasn't reflective or open-minded enough to ask the obvious question, "Why are there letters?" And nobody took that question seriously. Yeah. I mean, they took it serious, too. They were like, "There's the door. Get the [ __ ] out of here." [laughter] And I was like, "Awesome. Happy to." It's like, I haven't found any of this intellectually stimulating or anywhere useful where I could see any tangible benefit to this information. So why the [ __ ] would I sit here? What's the matrix? This world that is constructed around us. Mortgages, loans for cars that aren't worth $30,000 that somehow costs 150.
96:37Insurance. The scam of life. Why is insurance a scam? How can it not be? I I don't have it. So, I agree with you, but I just like to hear you explain. What was that? United Healthcare, right? That's the dude that got whacked, right? The vice guy. Yeah. Like, did they not just post like quarterly profits in the in like the multiple billions of dollars? I mean, that doesn't that doesn't give it away for anybody. Like who was Every time I hear somebody like their house gets [ __ ] up, the insurance people come out, yeah, we're not covering that. Well, then what the [ __ ] did you pay for it for? Exactly. Like, okay, let's do the math. How
97:21much did you pay the insurance company in the last 10 years? And they'll be like, oh, something around $25,000. What does it cost to put the roof on your house? Oh, about, you know, $5,000. Why the [ __ ] you paying for insurance? Why not not pay them $30,000? Save up your own money. be responsible for yourself. I Here's a even wilder idea. Get your ass up on the roof and put some shingles down. If one can [ __ ] shingle your roof and you can't figure it out, then you're dumber than one. Fair. Fair. Isn't Is that not There's a shorter answer to your qu I've actually dealt with this and and um and as I said, I don't have the insurance you're referring to for exactly
98:06that reason. Like it doesn't make any sense. I know what a roof costs to put on a shingle, especially an asphalt shingle roof is is pretty cheap really. So, like, what are you doing? And I've lived by that for many years and it works. But the reason that most people don't is because you're required to get insurance once you take a mortgage out. Well, there you go. But that is the basis of all slavery. Once you remove yourself in debt, there is no or else over your head, right? They use the debt over your head for every that is the or else, right? That's how they silence people at their job. Oh, I can't speak up about the evil [ __ ] my company's
98:44doing or I might lose my job and then I won't be able to pay for my home that I don't own and drive the car that I don't own. But if you simply just own your [ __ ] it doesn't have to be nice [ __ ] right? You get a $5,000 shitbox car, it'll do everything that a brand new Lincoln will do.
99:04except it won't talk back to you and rat you out to the [ __ ] feds. So, kind of sounds like the $5,000 [ __ ] box might be a better idea. So, it's if you were running this scam on an entire population, the first thing you would do is convince them they have to have the Lincoln instead of the Nova. Yeah, I guess you'd have to excite in people a desire for things they don't need. How does that work? I don't understand. It's never worked on me. Well, you grew up on a farm in South Dakota, so it's like that's the opposite of the culture that you're from. But if you're floating around America at large, you're bombarded continuously by incitement to want things that
99:42aren't good for you and actually aren't the desires of your heart. You don't really want these things. No. But you're convinced through this very sophisticated omnipresent propaganda operation being run against you by retailers. Yeah. That you like, you got to have this. You got to have that. You have to have it. [clears throat] That's the measure of happiness. [snorts] You're laughing. But that's true. Don't you think? I mean, that's what they say. I I laugh because I've always found it hilarious. Look at these people that follow all those all those uh checkpoints down that list and then ask them how happy they are or how fulfilled they feel in their life. Do
100:22their kids like them? Does their wife like them? Exactly. Does anybody see them as necessary or valuable people in their lives? I don't I don't think so. Who are the happiest people, you know?
100:44People who work for themselves, people with no debt, people who make their own decisions in their life, people whose time is their own, people who can drop everything and go help their kid as soon as they need it or any of their friends. That's the people that I've surrounded myself with though is people that will come and help you dig a hole or do hard manual labor of sweat.
101:14Yeah. Yeah. People you can call Yeah. We won't we won't go any farther than that. [snorts] Dig a hole. I want to ask why you're digging holes. Um, how is this savable? This civilization?
101:36I don't think so. It's already too far down the decline. Something new has to be built. At some point, you get to an old structure, you know, equate it to construction and you find a house.
101:51At some point it just it just it's better to just be burned to the ground. The sills are rotted and they're done. Maybe the design was right. Right. You could re you could rebuild the same house back under the same principles, but once termites have gotten into it and eaten out its bones and sold it off to [ __ ] foreign interests, you know, what are you going to do with that?
102:16Nothing. Light it on fire. Do you think there are enough people remaining in the country to rebuild a civilization worth living in? Easily. Easily. Look at what humans have recovered from. Yeah.
102:30Made it through the younger dest. Made it through the ice age, you know. Made it through the Mongol hordes. Yeah. And always came out better the other end. So, you're not worried in some deep way then?
102:48I feel bad for people that don't see it. I feel bad for the people who are sleepwalking into their own extermination.
103:03But there is some level of me that will enjoy it. Right? Karma's a [ __ ] There's nothing better than watching karma getting handed out to people that deserve it.
103:16It's the one saving grace in this world. This world is nothing of what they've told us it is.
103:22It's in fact it's the exact opposite, right? Like evil deeds are punished. Evil people are punished.
103:29Their lives suck. They they don't they don't have any happiness or joy in them, right? They have nobody to love. Nobody holds them at night. Nobody tells them they've done a good job and means it, I suppose. Yes. In any meaningful way. I'm sure plenty of people have some sick fans that lie to them. Yeah. But I doubt that I doubt that brings any warmth to anyone's soul at the end of the day.
103:56That's right. You wouldn't want to be Larry Frink at you're in hell. I don't know how you could point to anybody with a billion dollars and be like, "Oh, they could be a good person." Like, no, dude. The only way you accumulate that much wealth is be by being an evil piece of [ __ ] that has exploited other human beings. It's the only way it happens. Yes, it is. It's just and that's been a steady norm all throughout history. Like Gas Cassus was not a great dude. No. No, not at all. So, were you fooled by Trump? I did support him and I I go back and forth on whether or not I was fooled. I don't think I was fooled. Something happened to him. He He He turned his back on us.
104:52He became something else. I mean, unless he's not He just can't be that good of an actor. He doesn't seem to be. Otherwise, he could sell the lies now a hell of a lot better than he's selling them. No, that's a great point, right? Like, so no, he was he was being honest in the beginning. He was saying the true things, you know? deport all these people, save our country, all the things that were obviously wrong, he was pointing them out and then just like a light switch, he was like, "No, no, I never said any of that." Yeah, actually, actually, Lindsey Graham's a great guy. Yeah, he's totally
105:29straight. Loves peace. What? These people all hated him. These were everything we voted against.
105:38He surrounded himself and just is rolling around in it with everybody that hated him and tried to destroy him and then somehow convinced him to destroy himself. That's exactly right and nicely put. They convinced him to destroy himself and us. Well, how do you think that? What do you What I mean, how do you explain that? Oh, dude. That's going to take somebody far more intelligent than some [ __ ] potter from South Dakota. I can't explain that. I can't explain why anybody would do that. But I can't explain the motivations of the majority of America. And none of none of it has ever made sense to me. I don't understand how you sleep owing anybody $5. I can't imagine being
106:32in debt to anybody. It just it bothers me. Me too. It bothers me. Even when somebody like does something nice for me or gives me something, I I I have to return that to them. Of course, you know, you and so it's pretty clear in the New Testament, too. I don't They kept this from me in church as a kid to the extent I went. But don't owe anybody anything. Paul says that don't don't be in debt.
107:00Yeah. No, I How much better would the world be if like elementary school just taught the Bible and not even in a religious way, but just for those lessons? Yes. Like that's why that has been so applicable to everybody's lives for 2,000 years, right? Yes. It's because it is true information and good advice. And yeah, dude, of all the times I went to churches younger, like I was I thought about this later and I was like, why don't they just start at the beginning and just read the thing all the way to the end? Like you go to church on a Sunday and you start on January 1st, you just start at the beginning and he just reads the thing. Well,
107:57because then you if you read the whole Bible, you wouldn't be going to church, would you? You'd be like, "Hey, uh, teacher, uh, Jesus said there that I shouldn't be giving you any money to talk to his dad and that I'm supposed to walk up there and flip your tables over and take my money back." What What do you have to say about that?
108:17It's kind [snorts] of like AI. You need to get the [ __ ] out of this class, sir. [laughter] So, you don't need the promotion and I it's you probably don't even want the work, but I just can't resist by ending on the question of your of the art that you make. So, how do people get it if they want it? Find me. Yeah. I'm going to make you work for it. Comes with an IQ test. I'm not that difficult to find. No, you're not. No. Um, my phone number's on the internet. So is mine, unfortunately. How many other artists do you know, like actual artists? Real artists, that make a living making art. One. One. One. Yeah. That I went to school with. Masahiroyama,
109:12my Japanese buddy. Where does he live? Okin Osaka. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. He came to South Dakota. We didn't even meet in art class. He came to South Dakota. His dad sent him over here because his dad liked cowboys. Yeah. And he thought he should he thought he should learn English.
109:30And it's the most ridiculous thing to come to South Dakota to learn pottery from the culture that has literally kept the ancient knowledge of pottery alive throughout modern ages. Like the only reason I know what wood kils are is because Japan preserved that information. Really? Yeah.
109:53How many wood kils in the United States would you say? I don't even I don't even know. Not many though. Maybe not. Maybe more than I might think there are because by nature potters don't like this world. I don't think. At least the ones I know, you know, we toil hard. You work hard to be a potter. And the reward and gratitude is low. Low. Yeah. I think I should probably carve more into pots about what worthless leaders we have so that when somebody digs them up in a thousand years, they can know that what a piece of [ __ ] Trump's become. Yeah. Got you, [ __ ] [laughter] The artist known as Jess. Thank you very much. Thank you, Tucker. [music]
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